Annoying kid at the Dog Park.. -vent-

Excuse me spunkymeow? I am a selfish person who hasn't grown up because I prefer not to be around children?:eek: :rolleyes:

You are obviously someone who hasn't had the type of experience with children that I have had or you wouldn't have made such a narrow minded statement as that.

I don't tell alot of my life on this board because that is not the type of person I am. But here is one aspect of that.

My mother divorced my father when I was 18. She remarried into a family of sociopaths. Not all children are born full of sweetness and light. Some are born evil, some are born not totally evil but without the ability to FEEL right from wrong. They do not have a concious. They know in their minds what is right from wrong but they can't feel it so they never feel any guilt for the pain they cause other living beings. I say it that way because it often starts as animal abuse.

Now please...understand this...I am not saying ALL CHILDREN ARE EVIL. I am saying that some are born "wrong" and some aren't. Some are made that way by environment rather than genetics.

My stepfather is a mild sociopath and an abuser. He wasn't a physical abuser but an emotional one. He used to love to torment my mother. When his life was feeling out of control for some reason he would find ways to make her miserable. He would do something simple like take her glasses from the nightstand or endtable where she had left them and hide them for HOURS. Sometimes days. Then when he got tired of his little game and had gathered all the joy he could watching her tear the house apart looking for her glasses he would make them appear right where he had taken them in plain sight. You have no idea of how cruel that is until you have lived it.
My oldest step brother was slightly worse. One day when he was sixteen he ran over a kitten with his bicycle. He came home crying. Not because he hurt the kitten but because people who saw it were calling him a monster. When asked about the accident he said the kitten was in his way. He didn't think it was fair that people thought he was horrible. They could see he could have avoided the kitten but chose not too. He didn't care about the kitten. He said it should have gotten out of his way on the sidewalk.
My youngest step brother was the worst. He was diagnosed as having a conduct disorder with undersocialized aggression. In other words he is a murdering pyschopath. He tried to kill my 2 year old cousin when he was only 7. He cut the hair off of a 4 year old girl so close to the scalp that he cut the scalp. He snuck into my mom's bedroom at night and hit her over the head with a baseball bat. Luckily he was still young and not strong enough to do permanent damage. They all had to start locking their doors at night. He tried tripping his father through a sliding glass door. He also would turn on the gas on the stove and blow out the pilots at night. He was institutionalized as a danger to society at the age of NINE!!!!!
Don't now think to attack as to why nothing was done to help this disgusting individual. They went through EXTENSIVE counsling with him starting at the age of FOUR.
Last I heard he was in New Mexico studying Pre-med. He is smart enough to become a very good physician. He can now kill and not get caught. He never changed he just got better at hiding what he was doing and making it look like others were doing it. Because all of this started when he was a minor it is all locked away. None of it touching his adult life. Nothing has to be reported. We don't know where he is now. He doesn't know where my mom and I are.
There was only one decent person that came out of that family. He is my step fathers nephew. But then...he was adopted so he doesn't share any genetic material with them.

So don't tell me I am selfish because I choose not to APPRECIATE all children. I APPRECIATE those that are decent, kind, gentle children. I don't just assume that because a child is a child that it is worth my time, effort or caring. There are many many children out there that are good. caseysmom's daughter sounds like she is one of them. I know that there are many others. But......there are also many out there like my step family. They can look like little angels with blond curls and dimples yet they have nothing good inside. I know this. I have lived it. I could go into much greater detail but there is a length limit and this isn't what this thread is about. They are the Hitlers and the Jeffery Daumers and the rest of those ilk.

Denyce

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Originally posted by Denyce
...Now please...understand this...I am not saying ALL CHILDREN ARE EVIL. I am saying that some are born "wrong" and some aren't. Some are made that way by environment rather than genetics.

My stepfather is a mild sociopath and an abuser. He wasn't a physical abuser but an emotional one....

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I really don't want to jump in this debate,but I have one thing to throw in. I don't think that any child is born wrong. It sounds like your stepfather probably screwed them up.

I am sorry. But I believe some children are born wrong. Just like there are physical differences there are also emotional ones. Not all sociopath children come from bad parents or even parents with the same problem and not all children that are born to abusive parents become sociopaths. Annnddd...not all abusers are sociopaths. Some just have control issues. You can't lump anything all into one catagory or another and you can't exclude that some children are just missing a crucial componant to their emotional health when born. Some manage to overcome this and still go on to lead good lives. But many do not.

The entire family of my stepfather is this way to some extent or another. The grandparents, the sisters, the children. Like I said..the only one who wasn't is the nephew whom my stepfathers sister adopted. He is a truly good person raised by these people and still managed to become a loving husband and father who wouldn't hurt anything intentionally. But he doesn't have the same genetic material.

It is an issue that so many people don't want to believe because they want to believe that SOMETHING could be done to save these "poor innocent souls". But sometimes there are things that are NOT in our control and never will be. Unless you have lived it you can't possibly understand how truly terrifying it is. I have met families torn to pieces by a child that they can't trust not to try and kill them. I didn't know these people as well as my step family but on the surface they didn't appear to be anything other than parents that only wanted the best for this child they created. There was extensive individual counsling, group therapy, family counsling...etc etc etc. I understand your wanting to think that no child could be born wrong, that it is all environment.....arrgh...I am not going to say anymore. I lived it, you didn't.

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Originally posted by cali
EVERYONE has a right to their opinion.

I personaly hold animals higher then most people and equal to a few. that is MY opinion, certainly not evreybodys that I know very well.

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I agree. Now dont get me wrong... I love little kids... I think they are cute. But I DO NOT love misbehaved little moster kids. They tend to drive me nuts... as they do most people. I should not be one to talk... becaue I myself am still a kid. I am only 14.

I myself... hold animals to a higher position than people. They dont talk back, they always listen, most are tolerant of allot of things and just plain friendly. Their do things in ways that we cant becaues they cant talk. They understand our feelings, although they do not understand our language.

Maybe my opinion would be different if I had a child of my own. But right now that is just how I feel.

Carly

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I haven't had any issues with kids to that extreme. I've actually had worse experiences with other dogs. The day those 2 Great Pyrnees attacked Oz, I felt helpless, because as I focused on one, Oz was being attacked by the other. Only the owner stepping in and grabbing her dogs saved us. Now if it's an unruly kid, I just remove my dogs from the situation. I've had kids at my house and if I feel like they're getting to be too much for the dogs, I put the dogs in the bedroom. Problem solved. Inconvenient yes, but better for the dogs in the long run.

Par...

"Those who do not appreciate children, are selfish people that have not yet grown up themselves."

I never understood why people who choose to remain childless are called selfish. If humans were in danger of becoming extinct, sure there might be some reason for it, but we're hardly in danger of that--on the contrary, we just keep on multiplying!

I guess until we walk a mile in someone else's shoes we really don't know anything about that person's life.
It sounds like Denyce has had experiences that I can't even imagine. And the thought that her stepbrother is becoming a Dr scares the bejesus right out of me.
I really don't think this thread got rude towards Caseysmom, I think it was her that became rude calling us Nutty and whatever.
I had a nice normal bland childhood in the middle of podunk country Ohio. My parents have been married 38 years and counting and I babysat my cousin's and neighborhood kids. The only time my rosecolored glasses saw anything 'weird' was when I saw one of the kids playing with himself.
My nephews are completley different from the way my sister and I were. I don't know if it is the difference b/n boys and girls or what. Some of the stuff they pull makes me extremely glad I don't have children. They are the best birth control that I don't have to pay for. My oldest nephew who is 7 threw a screwdriver at my mom when she told him to pick up his toys. The younger one that will be 4 next month, his favorite thing to do is to run off into traffic in the middle of a huge parking lot. I really think they need to be tested for ADD, my mom has told my sister/brother in law this and b/c they are educated they don't see it, don't want to see. My mom taught kindergarten and first grade for 36 years, I think she knows what she is talking about.
I don't hate kids. I despise the little brats that beat me with a sucker when I am xraying them, the 12 year old that spits a pill out all over the nurses clothes after they put it in Jello so he could take it. But what I dislike even MORE, is the parents that sit there on their welfare covered a$$ and let them do it. Or the parents that tell me - get your hands of her don't touch them when xraying them is all about touching them.
I have just decided that most people are nuts. Not just kids!!!

IMHO

I think both sides have perhaps read a bit too much into the "opposing side's" viewpoints. I think Julie's anger and outrage was directed at the parents of this child, who were not only allowing the child to torment the dogs, but allowed him to be in danger of being bitten due to his provoking behavior. It seems to me they had no care for either the dogs or their own child in this instance, disturbing on both accounts.

I was surprised when I saw the "kid-hater" comment, it seemed to me people were complaining about badly behaved children, the same way I have seen threads here before about badly behaved dogs, and I saw nothing to indicate that anyone hated children or felt there were no well behaved children.

On the other hand, I don't think anyone stated that people who choose not to have children are bad people. I think anyone would agree if a person does not wish to have and raise children, then it is best that they don't. I don't think, or at least I would hope, that someone would judge someone else in a poor light just because they prefer not to have children. I know personally my husband and I have no desire to have children, for many reasons. That does not mean I hate children or don't appreciate them. Like Denyce mentioned, young kids actually often seem drawn to me, which has always puzzled me because I never coo and coddle them the way a lot of other adults seem to, but maybe that is exactly why they feel drawn to me, because I treat them with respect and don't talk down to them.

As far as projecting dislike to a child who is acting bratty, I think it is human nature, the same way a person would feel dislike towards an obnoxious, aggressive, trouble-causing dog rather than the owner, even if the owner is really to blame. It isn't always fair which way the anger or dislike is directed but that it is human nature to be repelled by the actual source of unpleasantness.

When I was growing up, my Mom's best friend had a West Highland white terrier that was indeed a terror. She jumped all over guests, snarled and snapped at your toes if you got near her eating area in the kitchen, even bit at my toes under the table while we were eating dinner once because her owner, who was a wonderfully nice lady, spoiled her rotten and gave into her every whim. There was no question that Button was alpha there. She fed her scraps while she ate and cooked, and did not enforce herself as pack leader. The dog was a misery to be around. I really came to dislike the dog, even though it really wasn't the dog's fault, I couldn't help it. Not only that but, being younger and less knowledgable, I came to feel dislike for the breed even, she was so unpleasant to be around. Of course I later learned that my prejudice was misplaced. I imagine though if I had come to a pet board and expressed my distaste and dislike for that dog, some might have jumped to the conclusion that I was a dog hater, which couldn't have been farther from the truth.

Honestly, that seems to me to be what has happened here.

You're probably right, but the "selfish" remark (and I'm not attacking the person who made it, as I hear it all the time) truly has always puzzled me. Even if a person plainly dislikes kids, how is that a selfish act--how does it hurt anyone or take anything away from anyone else? It may not be a positive thing, but I don't see how it's selfish.

But then, this probably isn't the proper venue for me to seek my answers, so I will say no more on the topic. :)

Okay I came creeping back here to clarify myself. There are lots of nice folks here. First I don't like obnoxious kids and it looks like I am defending them, I am not. Second, think about it like this...you love your dog(s) and somebody starts a few threads about irritating dogs on a kid site...it kinda ticks you of. third, what I thought was rude was when someone looked like I was contradicting myself but I wasn't being all that polite either so oh well.

Anyway sorry if I offended anyone I just love all living things and I get mad when any racial group or anyone or say pit bulls...etc get stereotyped...I guess I don't like stereotypes is what I am trying to say.

Glad you snuck (creeped) back. Welcome:)

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Originally posted by caseysmom
Second, think about it like this...you love your dog(s) and somebody starts a few threads about irritating dogs on a kid site...it kinda ticks you of.

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Good analogy and welcome back. :D

I definetly feel this thread has gone a little off track from the original post. I posted my opinion and there was really no need to be snapped back at. I also stated that I respect everyone here at Pet Talk and their opinions. I also stated that what I wrote was my opinion and strictly my opinion.

As far as having experience with children, I have a lot. I have 6 siblings. Four are younger than myself. I have many, many cousins whom I have grown up with, babysat, etc. So, where Im coming from, probably stems from the way I was raised. I was brought up catholic, and was taught that women were created to reproduce. Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself (exluding taking care of animals). I love my cats with all my heart. They are apart of me, but not like a child would be. However, the difference between the two, they are of equal importance and equally loved very much.

Like I said in my previous post - THIS IS MY OPINION. Since we are giving our opinions, I am very entitled to mine, and would appreciate it, if I am not badgered for it. ( i wont mention any names)

Thanks

I find it hard to comprehend that analogy. Wouldn't nuns then be considered selfish? I had thought you meant by not feeling an appreciation of children, people were in your opinion selfish, but it does seem like in your second post that if a woman chooses not to have children then she is destined to always be caught up only in her own needs.

I was raised Catholic, as was my husband, and this is not something that I was raised to feel at all.

But then, my personal opinion is that it seems rather close minded any time someone places a stipulation or generalization on others, such as "if they don't do this, then they are going to be this way." Some of the most giving and least self-centered people I have ever known were people who did not have children. One could even say something like people who don't have children have more of an awareness of others around them since they aren't caught up in their own family's wants and needs. But that would be just as generalizing as the no children/selfishness idea. I think it's safer to just take each person on an individual basis without making judgements based on how they live their lives..

These observations are my opinions to that idea, and are not stated in any attempt to "badger" you about yours.

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Originally posted by spunkymeow
Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself

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I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that all.

I know plenty of people who haven't had children, and they're alot more fun to be around then some who have had kids, and they're far from selfish. I find that a completely absurd statement to make, even though that is your opinion. Choosing to have or not have children shouldn't define if you're "selfish". There are just some who are not cut out to be parents.

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Originally posted by K9soul
I think it's safer to just take each person on an individual basis without making judgements based on how they live their lives..

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Ditto, Jess. I agree.

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Originally posted by spunkymeow
Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself (exluding taking care of animals).

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I am a mother and I love my child to death, but I totally disagree with you. I do not think that everyone needs to (or should) reproduce. And I don't think that childbirth is what it takes to become a person.

For myself personally, I couldn't imagine anything other then being a mom. If I'd chosen not to have children, I may have missed out on some wonderful perks that comes with parenting, but I would have been the same caring person that I am today.

I think saying a person is selfish b/c of blah blah blah is one of the meanest things I have ever heard.
What about people that want to have children but can't. It isn't their choice to be 'selfish'. If you know a person that suffers from infertility you wouldn't say that. Then you have people who don't give a rat's ass about their kids keep reproducing like bunnies b/c they get taken away and they want a kid to keep. We had a young couple a few years ago that came from a neighoring county, said they were from out of state, gave fake names, etc, b/c their other 2-3 kids had been taken away and they wanted to keep this one. :mad:

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Originally posted by spunkymeow
I was brought up catholic, and was taught that women were created to reproduce. Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself (exluding taking care of animals).

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Question...are you just saying you were raised like this or that you truly believe that women who do not reproduce are selfish?

I don't/can't have any children. So I hope you don't bunch all people who don't/can't have children in the same category.
Because if I could I would definately have a child of my own, but I wouldn't condemn someone if they decided not to have any. Some people shouldn't be parents because they don't want to be.

Hope I didn't upset you:)

I have been reading this thread from the start, and was not going to say anything. But now I have to say something. I am a mother and a grandmother. I CHOSE to be! Now that being said, Anna, it is a shame you could not have children, and I am very sorry. But, Anna, you Have Huney, Angus, and Roxey to help fill that void. You are right, there are some people that don't want children, that DOES NOT make them selfish people. If a woman does not want children, then she should have that right NOT to have children, without somebody judging them and saying they are selfish! That is the most rediculus thing I have ever heard!

We can't all have the same likes and dislikes, God made us to be different! Gave us different talents. Please don't get these good and very sweet people wrong, by classifying them as selfish! Maybe you are selfish, by claiming these people are selfish. They have chosen a great calling, to raise pets, and these pets can be and are like their children to them! I have very good friends that don't want children, and never will have children, but have the utmost respect for children.

So don't go judging them because they don't want to have children. I love these people, they have stuck by me during hard times and said things that have snapped me out of my depression, and I just will not listen to such nonesense, they are not selfish!

Willie

I may be missing something but who specifically said someone is selfish for not having children...who even said someone should have children...I have looked and can't find that post.

I am closing this thread because it has gotten far off the original topic. Please respect each other here, and remember every memebr of Pet Talk is a decent person and deserves to be treated as such. Go hug - or pat - a pet.