Why make the choice to not have children?

To be perfectly honest, there have been times, when I have said to myself "This is such a hard job, and am I up to it" with no training, only instinct to go by, motherhood indeed can be a challenge, infact I found it harder the second time around, I had a big gap of nearly 11years, my wee girl Bless her, was not the easiest of babies, whereas my first, my son was a breeze, it was nerve-racking at times, but she has turned out pretty well, no-one is the perfect parent, and sometimes parenthood is very demanding, and you just have to be a little selfish at times, and take much needed time out for yourself, in fact it is detrimental I believe to the children and yourself if you don't, I have never been one to palm my children onto other's family or friends, therefore that break is far and few between, to me life without my kids would cease to exist, there is no stronger bond I believe than that of a parent and his/her child.

I don't think anyone is exactly wrong for disliking children, but I think its sad that you do, because as pointed out , each child is individual, and different and unique in their own way,it may well be a part of your life you can well do without, but I compare it to people who dislike animals, IMO only they are missing out on so much in their lives, it can only be enriching, to have enough love to share with both humans and animals.

Yes having kids is a personal choice and one not to be taken lightly, it is a job for life, just because they grow up and become adults, you never stop worrying about them, caring for them, and hoping for the best in their lives.

Johanna it is understandable to have fears about becoming a mother, will I be a good parent? can I Cope? etc etc, it's a fear of the unknown, only time will tell, but I cannot imagine you to be anything less than a good mother., for some it comes naturally, others have to work on it, and for all it is exceptionally rewarding, not that the rewards are that often lol.(but well worth the wait).

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Originally posted by carole
I don't think anyone is exactly wrong for disliking children, but I think its sad that you do, because as pointed out , each child is individual, and different and unique in their own way,it may well be a part of your life you can well do without, but I compare it to people who dislike animals, IMO only they are missing out on so much in their lives, it can only be enriching, to have enough love to share with both humans and animals.

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I agree whole heartedly:) I wanted to say something to this effect, but I couldn't put it into words:)

It's enriching if it's what you want and/or need. It's like a reptile lover saying a reptile hater is missing out on so much not having reptiles in their life. That's just simply not the case. I can't imagine not having rodents, but, there are plenty of people that can't stand them. Their lives certainly wouldn't be enriched if they somehow had rodents. I know it may not seem like a good analogy, but, it's the same concept. And, I don't think anyone here has said that they don't realize kids are individuals, and, unique. Maybe I overlooked that somewhere. I will say that I don't think not wanting kids has ANYTHING to do with not having love to share with another human. Just as I don't think not wanting animals has anything to do with not having love to share with them. I've seen plenty of cases where people with children and people with pets have been everything but enriched. I couldn't imagine my life without pets, but, I completely understand when people don't have them. Everyone is different, and, it's what makes life interesting. It's just a matter of seeing things from another's perspective, being accepting, and, opening your mind to the idea that people are just wired differently. Different things make different people happy. There's no need to feel sad for anyone because they don't have in their lives things that make your life complete. I mean, if someone couldn't have kids, and, wanted them, that's sad. Moving into an apartment and not being able to have a dog if you want one, that's sad. But, not wanting kids and not having kids, that's not sad. I've enjoyed this thread immensely. And, y'all will be the first to know if I ever get pregnant! Ha! For now, I'll just love on the few babies and children that I connect with...... :) On a really happy note, one of my favorite couples is pregnant with a baby boy. Now, that baby's already got me hooked and isn't even born yet, just cuz I love his parents so much. :)

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Originally posted by shais_mom
She SNAPPED at me "do you have kids" I said "No" she said "Well that explains it"

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Shais_mom - I wholeheartedly agree with you - I get so annoyed when people say that to me!! WHAT, because I don't have KIDS I have NO UNDERSTANDING??

I have some friends who are childfree, and one of them got so sick of people asking her and her husband when they were having kids she told them she was infertile, had an infection and had a hysterectomy (all untrue!!) but NO-ONE ever asked her again. That is SAD!

I don't care if you have kids or not. No-one has the right to tell you "right or wrong" whether you should have kids or not. It should be no-ones business but your own!

To those of you who are happily CF - good luck to you! To those of you who have kids (or are in the process of "incubating" a little one, Johanna!!), good luck to you too.

Carole - if and when it ever happens to me, I am PM'ing you. You voiced so many of my concerns, and I think I will need to "bounce" some others off you too!!!

Good thread!

Guster Girl - You put words to what I was thinking...I've been in hysterics all night because I lost my Chloe-rat tonight (I'll post a thread in Pet General later, so don't respond here because I don't want to hijack), but I know many people who find rats repulsive or frightening, and I respect them by never trying to shove my rats in their face or saying things like "You don't know what you're missing" (Unless they make a rude comment about ME keeping rats)

That is, in my opinion, the difference between being less something and free from something. I am a child-free person, because I don't feel that my life would gain any enrichment from a child, but I am currently scorpion-less because I don't have one, but I feel that I would love to have one and would take a lot of positive things from the experience of having one.

Now, I'm going to admit something that will surprise a few folks in here.....I LIKE Alikkon's niece! When she's not being noisy or hiperactive, she's cute. I danced with her at his sister's wedding, and I LIKED it. So :P

My boss told me awhile ago "you'll change your mind when you meet the right man".....after she already KNEW I am engaged. 0.o What on earth? Am I supposed to meet some guy now, and suddenly my uterus is going to scream out in yearning? 0.o Somehow I doubt that.

Hi, me again :)

I just wanted to pop my head in and say that I love children! I really do... from afar. Take a look at my artwork (well, imagine it) the majority of my work is babies and young children. They ALWAYS turn out to be my best pieces. Always. I have a sensitivity and can capture their innocence and personality easily. I LOVE to draw babies. I'm going to a Baby Fest again today to see if I can get more commsions. I go to a Baby Fest/Expo at least twice a month. I sit there all weekend with a million babies being pushed in strollers. Each baby is so impossibly cute and I coo and make ga-ga noises at them. Not once have I left saying "awww... I want one." I know that my step-kids are all the kids I want and am meant to have. Someday I'll get to play grandma and that's enough for me... so long as it doesn't involve diapers. I'm not good with bodily fluids :D

My brother's baby is 14 months old and I love him to pieces. But I really really can't see myself taking one home fulltime and doing everything they do with/for him. Not only that, but hubby and I have COMPLETELY different parenting skills. We'd be divorced before the kid reached their 3rd birthday. Since my step kids are his kids, I relent to his parenting style most of the time... especially since he got them to teen years without my help, they don't respond to my style anyhow;) But things would be VERY different if the child were BOTH of ours. People don't stop to think about how parenting styles can vary and philiosphoies can wreck a great marriage. I've seen it time and time again. Ok, so a marriage can end on its own accord over many other reasons, but I can easily see in my case that a baby together would kill US as a husband and wife.

Captain, I have had to tell MY OWN MOM a similar story about why we're not having a baby because she offered to PAY for hubby's vasectony reversal! :eek: I hate having to have lied to her... but it IS mostly true, since I've known forever what the doctors said when I was 16.

Personally, I LOVE children and can't wait to drive a full SUV around of them! (Me, drive a minivan???? No way!!!)

My best friend from college, though, can't stand children. He despises them! In fact, he says he'll still be my friend once Jason and I have children, but we won't be as close:rolleyes:

He has absolutely no desire to reproduce at all. He says that kids are bratty and not really tolerable until they are 13 or so.

My theories on this particular situation:

Jon has problems forming bonds with people. I'm the only friend (seriously!) that he's ever had. Our relationship, although I enjoy it, is a shallow one. We don't do a lot of soul searching together. He's really not good at expressing his emotions or things like that. He is an intellectual and enjoys expressing himself that way.

In conclusion: Have you ever tried having an intellectual conversation with a two year old?:p

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Originally posted by sirrahved


He has absolutely no desire to reproduce at all. He says that kids are bratty and not really tolerable until they are 13 or so.

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Just from my experience, it's people that generalize ALL kids as being brats, are the ones more likely to change their mind about having them. :) I've read all the posts, and, the people that are saying they don't want kids aren't really saying it's BECAUSE kids are bratty. They're usually admitting that they actually have met some kids that they enjoy being around. I'm indifferent, if I have one, fine, if I don't, fine. But, it's got nothing to do with the way kids act. I am fine with kids, and, as I get older, I meet more that I like. Mine comes from what I want more out of life. I'd rather have the love and companionship of a soulmate than children. I have a friend that won't even date someone who doesn't want kids. And, I'm a supporter of her, because she KNOWS she's always wanted a family, and, she's trying to find Mr. Right. SHe doesn't want to waste her time with someone that doesn't share the same dream. Me, on the other hand, if I meet my soulmate and he's a person who doesn't want kids, that's cool with me. Actually, my ex was the kind of person that has always said he'd never get married and never have kids. I'm fine with both of those. I'm not a religious person, so, marriage is more of a legal thing with me, and, I've already shared my thoughts on kids. What I want in life is to feel that connection with my soulmate (I felt it with my ex, but it wasn't reciprocated). If kids are part of it, my path will be different, but, and, I've said this before, my life isn't going to be less of a life without them, it'll just be different. :) Sorry for getting off on the tangent.....it's just an interesting thread.

Well, for those of you that don't know me, let me start by telling you all that I have one child. He is almost thirteen years old. (Sheesh! Am I that old already!? :( ) I love him more than anything or anyone in the world. He was the most adorable baby, the cutest toddler, the funniest and most precocious child ... unfortunately now he is the most sullen, insolent and smart-mouthed teen ... but I'm hoping he grows out of that soon!

BUT ... I really never wanted kids. He was not planned, by any means. I never played with dolls or played house or school when I was a kid, my mom says. I never liked babies, or wanted to baby-sit. I'm a selfish person, really ... I want MY stuff in MY house, and I want to spend MY time doing MY things. It has been VERY VERY hard for me to be a parent. I think I have done a pretty good job, the best job I can do. But I will be QUITE happy and relieved when he grows up and moves out on his own. And I NEVER wanted any more kids, not for a nano-second. I could have lived my whole life very happily without a child. Of course, I can obviously live my life happily with a child, too.

I really don't see why the world feels it must divide itself into the "child" and "no child" camps. Strange. I can't fathom why people with kids feel EVERYone should have kids. My gosh ... isn't it obvious that most people who don't want or like kids don't make very good parents, and turn out not very good kids? Why would ANY of us want to live in a world populated by those kids, after they grow up? I have friends that are married, single, have kids, have no kids, straight, gay, rich, poor, like animals, don't like animals.

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Originally posted by Twisterdog
My gosh ... isn't it obvious that most people who don't want or like kids don't make very good parents, and turn out not very good kids?

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Unfortunately, people always feel the need to label and/or categorize others that don't feel, think, or do the way they feel, think, or do. It's just the "nature of the beast." Again, my signature speaks loud and clear in situations like these.

And, I quoted that, because I know plenty of people who love and want kids that don't make good parents, either. I know you weren't saying the opposite of that, and, you're right in your statement, as well. I just thought I'd state the other side of the coin. :)

I've said this before, but, this thread is really interesting.

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Originally posted by Twisterdog
My gosh ... isn't it obvious that most people who don't want or like kids don't make very good parents, and turn out not very good kids?

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Yeah, what kind of kid deserves to grow up in a home where they are resented for just existing? I'd never do that to another living being, it just wouldn't be fair. So...reptiles it is!

Sorry, I must post this - I don't have children myself. OK, this is the short version why: At the age of having children, I needed a husband who also wanted children, as I believe that is the best way of raising them, and I needed a decent place to live! However, I love my friends children - for short periods. ;)

Anyway, I just got this in a mail:

Why God Created Children

Whenever your children are out of control, you can take comfort from the thought that even God's omnipotence did not extend to His own children.

After creating heaven and earth, God created Adam and Eve.

And the first thing he said was "DON'T!"

"Don't what?" Adam replied.

"Don't eat the forbidden fruit." God said.

"Forbidden fruit? We have forbidden fruit? Hey Eve....we have forbidden fruit!"

"No Way!"

"Yes, way!"

"Do NOT eat the fruit!" said God.

"Why?"

"Because I am your Father and I said so!" God replied, wondering why He hadn't stopped creation after making the elephants.

A few minutes later, God saw His children having an apple break and He was ticked!

"Didn't I tell you not to eat the fruit?" God asked.

"Uh huh," Adam replied.

"Then why did you?" asked the Father.

"I don't know," said Eve.

"She started it!" Adam said.

"Did not!"

"Did too!"

"DID NOT!"

Having had it with the two of them, God's punishment was that Adam and Eve should have children of their own. Thus the pattern was set and it has never changed.

BUT THERE IS REASSURANCE IN THE STORY!

If you have persistently and lovingly tried to give children wisdom and they haven't taken it, don't be hard on yourself.

If God had trouble raising children, what makes you think it would be a piece of cake for you?

THINGS TO THINK ABOUT!

You spend the first two years of their life teaching them to walk and talk. Then you spend the next sixteen telling them to sit down and be quiet.
Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your own children.
Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said..
The main purpose of holding children's parties is to remind yourself that there are children more awful than your own.
We child proofed our homes, but they are still getting in.
Be nice to your kids. They will choose your nursing home.
AND FINALLY...

IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF TENSION AND YOU GET A HEADACHE, DO WHAT IT SAYS ON THE ASPIRIN BOTTLE: "TAKE TWO ASPIRIN AND KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN".

Lets see, I have three children, though they are not children anymore, I have a son 32, a daughter 29, another daughter who is 18. I have four grandchildren that ranges from ages eight to age 11.

Let me tell you if you are not up to the challenge of a lifetime, then do not have children. Twisterdog, even after you son moves out, you are still in for some worries. It does not stop until the day You die. Just because they are out on their own, that doesn't mean the worries stop. Sometimes it intensifys, I really mean that.

I still worry about my kids, that have left home, and have children of their own. Being a parent is not an easy job. It is downright a job that last and last.

My 28 year old daughter did not want children either, but after a couple years of marriage, she found out she was going to have a baby. She was not overly happy about the prospects of having a child. But when that baby was born, she became the best mother, one that I was so proud of. She doesn't choose to have another though, and I completely agree with her. Her dad doesn't he thinks she should have had another to ''go'' with that one. His explanation, she shouldn't be alone. I don't agree with that explanation at all, and told my daughter, it was her decision. Don't let other people rule your life, if you don't want another child, then don't have another child.

I completely agree if you don't want children, and think you are not parent material, then don't have children. They need so much love and taking care of a child is indeed a challenge that keeps lasting. Having a child means changing your whole lifestyle.

Me, I would not trade one minute of being a parent for anything on this earth. There is a lot of sacrifice involved, and if you are not up to the job, please don't have children, don't even think about having children. There are too many children out there that have parents that are too wrapped up in themselves to give the time needed to mold these children into the human beings they need to be.

I support all of you that don't want children. Don't have them. I have seen too many children in situations where the parent just don't have time for them. Very sad. If you are not ready to change your life, it is better to just stay childless, because the changes are until the day you die.

Randi, that was such a good and funny little saying and oh so true. I copied it and sent it on.

This is a very good thread, No arguements, and no pushing ones beliefs on another. That is great.

Willie

Well, it's certainly nice to know I'm not alone in not wanting children. I always feel like I'm the only one not wanting kids, even though I could care less what other's think.

I'm 35 and have never wanted to have children. I never found babies cute.:p I actually find them ugly. Kids, they are bratty and get on my last nerve. I'll admit to being selfish, I'm an only child and that is a trait of alot of us. I like alot of time to myself and I have zero patience. I've never regretted not having kids and I'm positive I never will.

I have a deep love of animals and perfer to make this world a better place for them as I grow older. I find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals. I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home. I find them to be the most selfish.:(

Lisa & Sash





http://pages.ivillage.com/lisalee992 (Sash's website)

i'm pozitive i'm never going to have a kid, but maybe i'll adopt one. i've heard way too many people say " i wish i had my body like it has beore i had kids!" but i don't really think i'll want one at all. i don't want the responibity of a child or the expense and worry. i'll just stick to pets; they're easier to train. ;)

EDIT: plus they don't like letting single people adopt, and if i do get married (which i don't plan on it) then if i get divorced i can't just forget about the guy because he'll still want to see his kid.

it may seem like i'm being really negative, but i'm not, i just look at the the things that could happen.

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Originally posted by Randi
Anyway, I just got this in a mail:
Why God Created Children

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Thanks Randi - that gave me some great laughs for the day!!!
I almost feel I am eavesdropping as it is my own daughter who started this thread but I told her on the phone this morning that I was reading it.....

First, I feel happy that she feels like being a mother is something she wants to do because I know that she will be a very GOOD mother and that it is important to her. I like to think that I helped play some part in that process - maybe not - but I also loved being a mother to her and her brothers very much and even though I had so many goals in my life that I never accomplished (medical school, a career, etc) I have not regretted it because I discovered that mothering was actually something I was fairly good at - much to my surprise because I was terrified at the idea. I was not good with babies as a little girl and more interested in my chemistry set and dissecting bugs.

That said - if my daughter had chosen to remain childless by choice - that would also be OK by me. If people give it thought and really feel they are not meant to be parents, then I think that is a responsible decision to make. It IS a bit hard to understand though and that is why this thread has been very thought provoking. The only couples I know who do not have children are those who have badly wanted them but have been unable to conceive.

I also have to agree with everything Willie said. When I was a young mother - I never could understand why older mothers would say things like "just wait until they are older!" I mean, how could it get harder?? Yeah, well now I am learning. Once a mother and life is NEVER the same again. The worries and heartache is unending but so is the joy and blessing. Sometimes I wonder what life would be like had I been able to pursue my career as I had dreamed - but I will never know. Besides, soon I will be a grandmother!!

Thank you to everyone who has shared their feeling on this topic - very good thread!!

I don't want kids for many reasons, the number one is being my occupation.

I want to own a dog shelter, where I will have MANY kinds of dogs, dogs who hate kids, dogs who don't like cats, dog's who bite everything, etc. etc. I don't think I would want to take the risk, or to be bothered by a baby crying, or by a toddler doing something bad, or by a teenagers hormones! (lol) I want to be able to concentrate on my career, my animals, etc. To me, children are kind of a "bother".

IF and this is a BIG IF, I ever deced to have children. I probly would not have my own. I would adopt. There are so many needy kids out there, I don't see why we all need to have the giving birth experiance when you could adopt a baby from Hati who needs a mommie to hug. Or a child who has never known the love of anyone. For me, I don't think I will ever understand. I dunno, I'm more into saving lives then creating them (Human included).


BTW: Why do people who don't want to have kids labled as something? When ever I tell people I don't want kids they stand there stareing at me like OMG! Whats wrong with you?!?!?

Ashley

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Originally posted by stacwase
One of my sisters has decided she never wants any, though. She's terrified that she'll turn out to be the sort of person our parents were, and she doesn't want to ever put a child through that. I think that's often an issue - people are afraid that their children will have bad childhoods, and don't want to risk it.

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I'm glad I never had kids, and it's too late now anyway...hubby's been neutered for years! :D I wasn't raised by loving parents by any stretch of the imagination, and also would be worried I'd have turned out like my parents. :eek: Being brought up in an abusive household (to say the least) doesn't make for good parenting skills later in life. A choice that wasn't hard for me to make. I understand the other side of the coin though, and feel it should be a choice made by someone willing to make that choice. Not me thanks just the same!

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Originally posted by QueenScoopalot
...hubby's been neutered for years!

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Where else but on PT would you read this! I gotta go tell MY hubby he's neutered!! Or should I say castrated??
:D :D

Castration is too drastic sounding! Just like a dog....neutered. :D :eek: :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by moosmom
[B]

To this day, I get SO annoyed when I hear crying, whiny, unruly kids at the store. I just have no patience for it! (can't get the hang of quotes yet, sorry Donna..someday I'll get this forum)
I can relate to this comment! If ever the "biological clock" ticked (rarely if ever) a quick trip to buy pet food at Wal-Mart knocked that foolish thought right out of my head! Pet food is next to the toy section, and nothing gets me out of a store faster! I swear the local store's toy section is used for babysitting while the parents shop. I can't count the times I've been hit by balls, almost run over by kids on bikes....geesh...no wonder they have to have a "Code Adam" in the stores. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Give me a litter of kittens or a baby bird...anything but a kid!:D

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Originally posted by QueenScoopalot
Give me a litter of kittens or a baby bird...anything but a kid!:D

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Hey I *have* three grown kids, loved motherhood and I agree with you here! Of course MY three didn't act like this (well, really, they didn't, not like kids today!!) We will be out shopping and hear a whiny kid - my hubby's favorite comment to mutter ......."hittem again!" - in jest, but with feeling:rolleyes:....or be nearly knocked over by a running wild toddler... At this point in my life, I don't like kids either!! They get on my nerves. However, I DO have a grandbaby on the way and she will, of course, be a perfect angel.

You know what really bothers me is not the kids that are running around crying and whining- it's the parents that are ignoring them! And the parent who slaps the poor childs hand that reaches out of the cart and so begins to cry. To me, in public, any display of kids in distress is up to the parents to address ASAP and it really irks me that they do not!! When I was a kid, if I misbehaved in public, I had to go sit in the car. (locked of course). Now, I just see parent screaming and slapping their kids or doing nothing at all- both really poor parenting responses in my mind - but I'm not a parent! I just feel sorry for children that have over-discipline or under-discipline. I feel REALLY bad for children who get both in different circumstances and grow up confused about what is ok and what is not!

I was never sent to the car for reaching out of the cart or wanting to see something on the shelf. It was an extreme measure when I was uncontrollable (I assume! Now I need to ask mom!) and it was the 60s so no child-napping yet!) mom always let me explore everywhere we went and was quite kind about that aspect of public life together.

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Originally posted by leslie flenner
Now, I just see parent screaming and slapping their kids

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Oh I hope you do not take my "hittem again" comment seriously! - it is a frustration joke we share! I feel like a crying child either needs attention or discipline. What I more than often see is a screaming kid "I want candy" mom says "NO" about three or four times and kid keeps screaming. Then mom gives them the candy!! Or, how many times does she have to say "stop or I will take you outside" over and over but keeps on shopping?? I guess I earned my title of the "meanest mom on the block" but back then, I guess we also did not take the kids out places as often because I really cannot remember having to deal with a crying kid!
Omegosh I am starting to sound like MY mother - "Why, when *I* was your age...."

*Chuckles* I asked my mother ecently while we were walking through the mall... "Did I ever act like that in public?!" and she assured me that I hadn't acted like that. This was probably because IF I had acted like that, I would have been sent outside and had to stay home with my father the next time.

My fiancee's SIL...her six year old is a BRAT. He will start doing something obnoxious, and she tells him to stop or else <insert threat here>, then turns her back and ignores the behavior! X.X WTFlip is that teaching him?! Rrrrrgh, so many times I've wanted to TELL her that, but her and I get into enough arguments over pet care and I don't want to start another. -_-

This sure has been an interesting thread to say the least, whether people have children or not is totally up to them, I suppose you can say the same for pets, maybe I am contradicting myself a little here, but guster girl made me think, and she is right, it is not enriching in your life in any way if it is not what you want.

I just find it hard to hear when people say they dislike children,I know its not personal , but having children, its just hard to hear is all.

And Trayi52, you are so right, you cannot just quit(although some do), and hope their is a good redundancy pay at the end of it, you never ever stop worrying about them, infact to me that is the only down side, that comes with parenting, is the stressful times you have,but it is part of the Job description.

Captain , I am here anytime if and when I am needed lol!!!:)

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Originally posted by lisalee
I find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals.

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*COUGH* *SPUTTER* *CHOKE*

Holy freaking cow and WtF? I *HOPE* that I read that wrong. Really, honestly, I would give my big toe to have that statement have been one big long typo. So, animals should be equal to or higher than HUMAN children? So tell me, if your neighbors home caught fire and in one room was their abnoxious little 3 year old child, and in the other room was a box of kittens, and you only had a chance to save one of the other. Would you save the kittens and let the little girl burn? Or even hesitate for a second before saving the obnoxious snotty nosed brat? Because if there would be even a *moments* hesitation where the welfare of those kittens was placed higher than the welfare of that little girl than there is *seriously* something very wrong with that. Please tell me that that statement came out wrong. Please. I know that the example that I used is a little extreme, but you get the idea... I didn't want this thread to have any arguing- just information giving- but I've just gotta draw the line somewhere.

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Originally posted by sirrahbed
We will be out shopping and hear a whiny kid - my hubby's favorite comment to mutter ......."hittem again!" - in jest, but with feeling:rolleyes

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So now I know who to thank for this awful habit that Jason has....:rolleyes: *sigh*

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I have a deep love of animals and perfer to make this world a better place for them as I grow older. I find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals. I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home. I find them to be the most selfish.

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Missy I find that to also be very cold and selfish. I have never heard of such a cold hard hearted thing in my whole life. I can't believe anybody would classify a childs life so low. How dark can you be? No wonder you were an only child! I think I would have pinched your head off as soon as you were born! I have to agree an animal life is more important than yours! As somebody say, I can see why some species eat their young!

You insulted every mother, mother to be, and grandmother on this board. It is one thing to not like children and not want children as the people in this thread have been so decent about their feelings. But what you posted is absolutely horrible! I wouldn't trust a person such as you to even take care of my pets!

Willie

Another "CBC" here - never had any strong desire, have been married almost 30 years to the same man, who shares the sentiment---my take on this (and I think it's my first visit to the dog house!)...

My overall take is that things happen for a reason - I worried in my twenties that there was something desperately wrong with me because I didn't want children and didn't get all "melty" around babies (in fact, babies and young children tend to steer clear of me - they obviously KNOW) (TEASING)..

On the other side - I have ENORMOUS respect for those who do have children and devote the needed time to raise productive contributing members of society - it is a huge responsibility and one of the most important things a human being can do.

I also believe it has, in our society, been unfairly deemed as a "lesser choice" to the extent that "by choice stay at home moms" have often been denigrated by their peers. Statistics prove that intact families or at least INVOLVED parents produce the healthiest and most stable children. I have enormous respect for those who postpone their own desires if they stand in the way of effective child rearing.

My nieces and nephews all refer to me as the "COOL AUNT" - and I really didn't enjoy their company until they were almost teenagers. I do enjoy them now.

I do think that something "takes over", even when non-maternal types become pregnant - and I've often seen these people become extremely effective parents - they tend to see their children more as "other people" and maintain a more objective view of their "lil darlins"...

I've had people tell me that I would never be "fulfilled" until I had children and I've never quite understood that. I think we each have something to contribute to life, and it is unique - it may involve procreation and it may just involve "creativity"...I don't nurture children, but I do nurture friendships, my spouse, Ritz( of course), my clients...

I've learned that personal happiness cannot be defined or created by other people - such as spouses or children - certainly they can enhance that happiness, but one must find the cause of joy inside themselves - cultivate it, and happiness will find you, and your happiness will find its way as a light to others

tuxluvr, you said that is the most beautiful way, and I highly commend you for that. Some are not meant to have children, but see you are a ''cool aunt'', and that is great. It proves you are cool, you have a teenager tell you that and you have a very high rating! Believe me, I have worked with teenagers, and when you are classified in that catagory, then you are somebody very special!

That was a very sweet post, and all the mothers, mothers to be, and grandmother love you for it! Honestly.

Willie:)

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Originally posted by trayi52

You insulted every mother, mother to be, and grandmother on this board. It is one thing to not like children and not want children as the people in this thread have been so decent about their feelings. But what you posted is absolutely horrible! I wouldn't trust a person such as you to even take care of my pets!

Willie

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I agree with you Willie. This thread has been so nice and everyone has expressed their feelings so well about how they came to make their decisions. Too bad this poster couldn't 'tone it down' a bit and not be quite so insulting to those of us who have chosen to become mothers.

One of my favorite aunts (my dad's sister) never had children and in fact never married. She had boyfriends but somehow couldn't take that final step toward marriage. She knew herself well enough to know that she wasn't cut out to be a wife and/or mother but nevertheless she was one of the aunts whose visits I really looked forward to when I was a bratty little kid. :p And, believe it or not, she adored me too! :p

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Originally posted by lisalee

I have a deep love of animals and perfer to make this world a better place for them as I grow older. I find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals. I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home. I find them to be the most selfish.:(

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Lisa,
While I am glad that you love animals - I am completely bewildered and blown away by that second statement.
Next Sunday is Mother's Day, and if you are still blessed enough to have your own mother alive, or whoever the woman is who took care of you and raised you as a child, I hope you will honor her for NOT sharing in your feelings, and considering YOU, Lisa, as more than an animal. If it was your dad - thank God for him!
This thread was an honest attempt to understand the desire to have or not to have...children. While I realize many of us do love our pets in quite a similar way to our children - I know I do, to make a statement that you "find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals" is far beyond my comprehension - and highly insulting.

I don't have any problem with children and will probably choose to have a couple when we feel we are finacially prepared to provide them with the things I want to provide. I am not currently ready for motherhood. For me, I won't be ready until we're financially prepared, I'm in a place in my own career that I can afford to leave the industry for a few years and reenter without starting over. I also need to be in a life place where I'm ready to be selfless. I'm not there. I enjoy going to adult restaurants on weekends (and HATE to see children in grown up restaurants), go on grown up vacations- both planned and spontaneous- and spend my money on ME.

So my choice to wait on children is not because of any distaste for children or parents or any of those things. I think children are wonderful. My choice to wait is because of me and my readiness.

Of course, if I were to marry and start making babies, what would my mother have to complain about.... I suppose she'd come up with something. I'm certain I wouldn't raise them right.;)

I'm afraid to say anything here, as it seems those with different opinions get an angry attitude from some.

But, in my opinion and my opinion only...

-Raising a child is just like a dog, but far more complicated.
-You teach a dog wrong from right, as you do a child.
-You feed a dog and supply it with the care it needs, as you do a dog.
-You train a dog, resulting in a well-behaved animal, just like a child.
-You blame an owner for a misbehaved dog -- the same thing should go for children. Of course, there are naturally born 'bad apple' dogs, as there is children who are born 'bad apples'
-You clean up after a dog - feces, drool... etc.. -- the same for a child.
-You control your dog when it is running around and misbehaving -- same for a child...

Get my point?


Threads about children always make me feel bad, since i'm a child myself and it's like i'm some sort of sin for being born... because my parents chose to have me.



One day, I hope to have children. Wether they are adopted or not, that will be left up to my partner and I to decide. I personally would rather not go through the physical and emotional pain of having one myself.
And, just like when someone buys a dog from a breeder (i've seen some compare buying a dog to having a child) Although i'd much rather see a dog adopted, i'm still happy for that dog to have a loving caring home.

The only time I'm against someone having a child is if they are not able to afford financially and emotionally for another life. (and of course if they're far too young and children themselves)

Kay, I find nothing you said to be insulting in anyway! You made and excellent point in everything you said. We as parents love our children, and we love our pets too. Your Simba and Nala are like your children. You have respect for the life of children and animals alike. Good for you!

Willie:)

This thread made me think of my own parents....and I started another on "general" if anyone is interested...enjoy



http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthre...threadid=48612

I have seen your thread, tuxluvr, and found it to be very beautiful! Thank you so much for starting that thread.:)

Willie:)

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Originally posted by Kfamr

Threads about children always make me feel bad, since i'm a child myself and it's like i'm some sort of sin for being born... because my parents chose to have me.

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Sounds like your parents have done a good job of raising you and you do not sound like a child. You express your self well. I have three grown children myself and in particular, a 19 year old daughter who dearly loves her cat - very much the way you seem to love your animals. Her cat is very much her "baby" and is spoiled rotten. But when the time comes for her to have her own flesh and blood child which she wants so much - THIS is a lifetime commitment that never ends. It will change who she is *forever*. The young woman she is today, will simply not exist in quite the same way - ever again. In all likelihood, like me, she will then become a grandmother and a great-grandmother - and so forth. Being a mother means helping to mold and shape another personality, a person who will hopefully go on to become a contributing member of our society and carry on life and humanity as we know it.
There are some *similarities* between training a child and training a pup - such as you mentioned, yes. But to parents who "chose to have you" as you said - this is world of difference than going out to adopt a dog, cat, bird, rat, reptile, etc. Animals can become members of the family and the givers and recipients of amazing love, but they will never be *above* a human being.