Oh and should they paint over "Touchdown Jesus" at Notre Dame? (It's Christ with outstretched arms that is painted on the chapel...I think...and you can see it from the endzone at the stadium)
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Oh and should they paint over "Touchdown Jesus" at Notre Dame? (It's Christ with outstretched arms that is painted on the chapel...I think...and you can see it from the endzone at the stadium)
Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
I don't see the Irish living in squalor and being grossly underrepresented. :rolleyes:
Ahhh yes, but they are portrayed as drunks..:rolleyes:
And how exactly is it relevent that they are living in squalor and being grossly underrepresented when the discussion started out to be whether or not Native Americans should be represented as mascots for sports teams?
You are not getting an argument from me about fixing the problem of the living conditions on the reservations. Now, that being said, THEY have to do something about fixing it also. I am more than willing to do what I can to help fix it, but I'm not willing to do it if they aren't willing to meet me halfway. There is also the fact that they do not HAVE to live on the reservation. They are citizens as well and are not being kept from running for public office where they could go a long way in helping their People. I think what some people are missing is that there are more important things than fighting a mascot when people are living in 19th century conditions.
Only if it's a bunch of non-Christians misappropriating their religion and symbols. You can do it to your own, but not to others.
I bet if they moved Touchdown Jesus into the stadium and used him as one of the goalposts, someone would complain.Quote:
Originally posted by mugsy
Oh and should they paint over "Touchdown Jesus" at Notre Dame? (It's Christ with outstretched arms that is painted on the chapel...I think...and you can see it from the endzone at the stadium)
Then they could sing that old country song, "Drop kick me, Jesus, through the goalposts of life."
Fall OFF her soapbox??? Quick, somebody SHOVE her, QUICK will ya???!!!Quote:
Careful Soledad, you might fall off your soapbox
Quote:
Originally posted by CatsinDenver
I bet if they moved Touchdown Jesus into the stadium and used him as one of the goalposts, someone would complain.
Then they could sing that old country song, "Drop kick me, Jesus, through the goalposts of life."
You're talking about Notre Dame here.....football is God there (except maybe academics being that most of their athletes get their degrees in something other than underwater basketweaving.) I seriously doubt anyone would complain....have you ever been to a Notre Dame game??
They would probably welcome it....it might help to have a littel divine intervention....Please God, don't strike me down! ;) :p
I'm ready to shove her, quick. Soledad, I think you're looking for argument...........and I think you're fighting for the wrong thing here. There are much more productive arguments out there besides what a silly nickname does or doesn't do for a group of people.Quote:
Originally posted by moosmom
Fall OFF her soapbox??? Quick, somebody SHOVE her, QUICK will ya???!!!
I think this is something that Soledad clearly feels very strongly about. So I don't think it's fair to make light of her views.
But I'd like to point out that in this thread I have refrained from posting a dirty joke AND I have managed to stay off any soapbox. It's a Wild Feeling! When does Thursday's open.
Dont' forget.....we are 4 year olds! :rolleyes:
Oh yeah....I'm sure I'll get a sarcastic response....so I'll wait here in breathless anticipation! ;)
But, Logan, you're right....that's what I've been trying to say, but some are not getting the point.
NOW HE GIVES ME THE CREEPS!!!Quote:
Originally posted by mugsy
I'm sure we could argue the nicknames and mascots of every school or professional sports team....what about the crazy leprachaun running around Notre Dame stadium??
And some of the guys on that football team aren't Irish.....
that's a bit disconcerting!!;)
2K....
My point was that they are called 'girls'..
NOT WOMEN.....It's hard to fixate on ladies doing the splits when the are reffered to as 'girls'..
Soledad,
Here's a question for you..
If you were an AmerInd living in a dirt floored hut in some back woods area would you rather have a person representing your
tribe...
A) fighting against a sports team named after your tribe
B) going to washington and fighting for more money for your area
Actually it would be so UN-PC to have the christians nail Jesus to the cross...........If memory serves me correctly it was the OTHER team who did it:eek:
I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.
Who's to say that those fighting against the use of American Indian mascots aren't ALSO fighting other fights for the community. It's not always so black and white and so either or.
Why the heck doesn't she quit while she's ahead??? Geez, there are SO many more important issues than a stupid mascot!!
If you feel the issue is so trivial, why do you keep posting???
So, you feel this issue is unworthy of anyone's time? Why do you keep posting to argue that with me. Surely, it should be beneath you.
Why should anyone who is facing many injustices have to pick only one to fight against???
Do you really think that someone who is offended by having his or her heritage belittled by team mascots doesn't also speak out against other forms of prejudice?
Are y'all really saying that it's OK to be a little bit racist, as long as it's in good fun?
And you aren't a few fries short of a happy meal???Quote:
I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.
Uh-huh. That is DEFINITELY the pot calling the kettle black (oops, sorry, didn't mean to stereotype anyone) :eek: I meant to say "dark". Yeah, that's it...DARK!!! :rolleyes:
At least I know when to quit.
You know Soledad, this thread is getting a bit heated, but no one has stooped so low as to sling insults until you did.....can't you come up with something better? At least Richard can inject humor into it to lighten the mood AND be serious at the same time....it's a special talent. And moosmom is just voicing her opinion, just like you and did not do the name calling game.Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.
Who's to say that those fighting against the use of American Indian mascots aren't ALSO fighting other fights for the community. It's not always so black and white and so either or.
Funny, you're telling ME I don't know when to stop. You can't help yourself, can you?
Take the pills, honey. You can do it.
Thanks Mugsy!!
Where do you get that it's racist? They are complimenting them for God's sake. The teams want something that is strong and decisive...how is that racist? Yes, the mascots could be A LOT less stupid acting and more respectful if they are dressed in Native American garb.Quote:
Originally posted by CatsinDenver
Are y'all really saying that it's OK to be a little bit racist, as long as it's in good fun?
come on....Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.
Who's to say that those fighting against the use of American Indian mascots aren't ALSO fighting other fights for the community. It's not always so black and white and so either or.
I was having fun until you said that.
I'm the emotionally unstable one....
Like one coach said 'It's not the size of the dog in the fight, It's the size of the fight in the dog.'
Fighting injustices in America is a great thing!
Why?
Because we can!
Passion is great when you are in love, But passion gets in the way when you don't see eye to eye....
Sometimes fighting the 'good fight' will wear you down and it ends in a draw.....
The Native Americans don't see it as a compliment. They see it as someone appropriating and parodying their traditions and dress. Kinda like a minstrel show.Quote:
Originally posted by mugsy
Where do you get that it's racist? They are complimenting them for God's sake. The teams want something that is strong and decisive...how is that racist? Yes, the mascots could be A LOT less stupid acting and more respectful if they are dressed in Native American garb.
I guess it is a compliment. Just like telling black people how good they were at picking cotton and playing banjos.:rolleyes: :mad:
ES&D!
Ya know, for an athiest, you sure have a Holier-Than-Thou attitude. Sounds like you could use some boody, girlfriend.
Soledad, you have proven yourself to be cruel and uncaring time and time again, which is why your arguments for Native Americans or any other minority group fall on deaf ears, as far as as I am concerned. You, who make jokes of those who are illiterate, or can't speak proper English, should be careful who you defend. Just remember your cruel words in regards to respected Pet Talk members before you start casting stones at our opinions on other members posts. I would think you, of all people, would remain silent on an issue like this one.
There is no one that I have seen that is not in support of the Native American needs........all that I have read just think that fighting against mascots on teams, whether they be high school, college or professional is a drop in the bucket compared to the other needs of that particular culture.
Boody? Do you mean booty?
I assure you, I am regularly serviced.
Ok, nevermind....you'll never get the point I'm trying to make and obviously have no interest in doing so, so I am not going to waste my time. I've talked to A LOT of Native Americans who feel the same way I do and are offended at the people who are doing the protesting, so I choose to listen to the people who are actually a part of the "fight" and not those who think they know what every minority group in the world wants. Unfortunately, the protesters are the ones who get the publicity.
Oh well, geez! TMI for me!! I'm done now. I get more mature conversation from my cats than Humpty Dumpty (Soledad) here.Quote:
I assure you, I am regularly serviced.
BTW, thanks for the support everyone!
here in CA we have the AZTECS from the UNI of San Diego...
They had (another un-pc mascot) a guy dressed up as Montezuma and the Hispanic community raised a stink about him...
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/campuscon...48/detail.html
Now he is a more accurate representation of
and Aztec warrior.....
Would that help in the ND mascot case???
Get him a better looking pair of shoes and make him taller???
The Florida State Seminoles have an ass kicking mascot. This guy comes flying out on a horse with a huge headdress on....
_-----------
The Florida State Chief is steeped in history and tradition. Perhaps the most spectacular tradition in all of college football occurs in Doak Campbell Stadium when a student portraying the famous Seminole Indian leader, Chief Osceola, charges down the field riding an Appaloosa horse named Renegade and plants a flaming spear at midfield to begin every home game.
The history of the Seminole Indians in Florida is the story of a noble, brave, courageous, strong and determined people who, against great odds, struggled successfully to preserve their heritage and live their lives according to their traditions and preferences. From its earliest days as a university, Florida State has proudly identified its athletic teams with these heroic people because they represent the traits they wanted their athletes to have.
While it may be a little disrepsectful to some to see that happen, how can it hurt to see someone portray a group of people?
Again,
If they had some guy carrying a jug of firewater and doing a crazy drunken indian dance while trying to scalp a cheerleader I'd have problems with that....
But then again, if you go into some states and choose to view a real Indian do a real Indian dance so you drop a few buck in town-who's doing the exploiting??
RICHARD! It's time to open the bar!
excelent article CinD.
I did not know for example, about Indians being forbidden to practice their religion.
I think one of the issues here is how people who support the mascots are branded as "racist" when they are really just uninformed. This can then make them defensive because they know that they aren't racists.
There are traditions of using strong warrior names for school teams such as "Vikings", "Trojans" (stop giggling 2k and Gini), and "Spartans". I think that many people, myself included, thought of the word "Braves" in this same fashion, as a compliment, and not a put-down. Which is why we cringe when someone calls us racists.
Education is the best way to tackle this issue.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by catland
[B].
(stop giggling 2k and Gini)
I have to admit that I am giggling............along with a bunch of other folks.........but not about your comments:D :D :D
Trojans, she said Trojans.giggles
Yeah, 2k - I went to a big party for the football game between USC AND UCLA......there were lots of Trojans there.............and some Bruins too:D
See, now ya'll just get me in trouble. I'm a smart girl. I know where you're trying to get me to go with this. Then everybody will be all in a huff about it.
Say No To Smutt!
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Office of Indian Affairs--Washington
Supplement to Circular No. 1665
February 14, 1923
Indian Dancing
To Superintendants:
At a conference in October, 1922, of the missionaries of the several religious denominations represented in the Sioux country, the following
recommendations were adopted and have been courteously submitted to this office:
1.
That the Indian form of gambling and lottery known as the 'ituranpi' (translated 'Give Away') be prohibited.
2.
That the Indian dances be limited to one in each month in the daylight hours of one day in the midweek, and at one center in each district;
the months of March and April, June, July, and August be excepted.
3.
That none take part in the dances or be present who are under 50 years of age.
4.
That a careful propaganda be undertaken to educate public opinion against the dance and to provide a healthy substitute.
5.
That there be close cooperation between the Government employees and the missionaries in those matters which affect the moral
welfare of the Indians.
These recommendations, I am sure, were the result of sincere thought and discussion, and in view of their helpful spirit, are worthy of our
careful consideration. They agree in……
-----------------------------------------------
Check it out.........
now let me get this straight...
In 1923 the government was trying to stamp out Indian Dancing in the Sioux Nation and in 2003
the Indians are trying to stamp out Indian
Dancing in the American Nation.
I know there is a difference in the two- but isn't the basic message of both movements that Indians-in any shape or form shouldn't dance???
I'm a little more rattled about St Paddy's day and Cinco De Mayo......
You see people wearing buttons saying,"Kiss me, I'm Irish!"
AHA! Drunken Irish Sex Fiends must be the norm-
Not to mention the all the college frat kids
wearing a Mexican sombrero slamming down Coronas
on May 5th...
Actually the May 5th group doesn't bother me that much.......slurred english is just as unintelligble as slurred spanish....I know, I speak both.
I agree entirely that education is needed--but sometimes a wake-up call is needed, too.Quote:
Originally posted by catland
excelent article CinD.
I did not know for example, about Indians being forbidden to practice their religion.
I think one of the issues here is how people who support the mascots are branded as "racist" when they are really just uninformed. This can then make them defensive because they know that they aren't racists.
There are traditions of using strong warrior names for school teams such as "Vikings", "Trojans" (stop giggling 2k and Gini), and "Spartans". I think that many people, myself included, thought of the word "Braves" in this same fashion, as a compliment, and not a put-down. Which is why we cringe when someone calls us racists.
Education is the best way to tackle this issue.
My belief is that a practice that is offensive to a large percentage of a particular racial group is a racist practice and should be discontinued. And I don't think schools will bother to change their mascots until they recognize that it's a racist practice.
Here's another interesting link on the issue:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/levesq...1_leve30.shtml
And to emphasize a quote from that editorial:
"It's entirely possible that not all ethnic and racial nicknames started life as pejoratives. But when cultural evolution does make them offensive to a segment of society, shouldn't all of society strive to remove the thorn rather than jam it in deeper? Instead of saying, "Deal with it," shouldn't we be bigger than we were yesterday, better than we were yesterday, and seek common ground?"
CID,
My high school team was named the 'Parrots'.
http://poly.lausd.k12.ca.us/index.html
Tell me, you would fear a giant parrot in a yellow cardigan sweater??
It didn't do my fragile ego any good to sit across from a crowd yelling, POLY WANT A CRACKER???
I would have chosen a more masculine, warrior like
mascot to represent our high school and our sports teams......
I just thought of the Fighting Wussies too late.
;)
Geeeez what a good time to visit PetTalk. I know one thing the Indians are getting plenty of money here in California from their casinos, I know because I help contribute. Their casinos are huge many of them outdoing Las Vegas, and it is all California tax free. I think it would be wise of them to take the money that they give to people in politics and spread it around to their own people throughout the country who are living in poverty.
As far as mascots, Soledad your a little more intelligent than to worry about what a mascot is named. We have a baseball team here called "The Padres" I guess all you liberals will be running to the Supreme Court to make them change their name, let's see it's called "PetCo Stadium" so we could call them "The Dogs", no that would be infringing on dogs rights.
Come on Soledad wake up and smell the coffee.
Jackie
Give me a W.... Give me a U... Give me an S... Give me another S....
;)