The story says
Which sounds like he wasn't COMPLETELY paralyzed, but couldn't feel much.Quote:
caused numbness in his left hand.
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The story says
Which sounds like he wasn't COMPLETELY paralyzed, but couldn't feel much.Quote:
caused numbness in his left hand.
And in most cases of numbness, you may not be able to feel pain, but you can definatly feel. If I has a puppy chewing on my "numb" hand I think I'd feel it. And you would also think that the puppy would brush another part of the kid and wake him up. You know how dogs grab bones with their front paws and chew? That kind of thing. I don't buy the story a bit.Quote:
Originally posted by Kfamr
Which sounds like he wasn't COMPLETELY paralyzed, but couldn't feel much.
I think we'd have to know this individual's medical history to know the level of numbness, etc. Add that to the fact that little kids sleep HARD, they have more REM sessions as a child than ever in their adult lives.
Slight numbness, maybe you can feel a bit, but extreme numbness................nope, you can't feel a thing. When they use anesthesia on patients when doing a surgery, it makes the patients NUMB, and they cannot feel the surgery, no matter how much the doctors cut them open, until the effect is gone.
Still I stand by my original opinion, the YOUNG child should NOT have such a YOUNG puppy.
and i stand with you! ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Kfamr
Still I stand by my original opinion, the YOUNG child should NOT have such a YOUNG puppy.
Lots of young children have young puppies. You may not like it and it may not be the best thing, but it happens. At least someone is taking the dog in and feeding them, etc.
What's not normal is for a six year old child to wake up with four fewer finger than he had when he went to bed. Unwashed hands or not, this is NOT normal puppy behavior.
I'm not putting it down to breed or age, I just think this puppy was a dud.
That's why I don't believe the story. I don't believe it's possible for a five week old puppy to bite through a person's fingers.Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
What's not normal is for a six year old child to wake up with four fewer finger than he had when he went to bed. Unwashed hands or not, this is NOT normal puppy behavior.
It may not be LIKELY, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. There's a difference.
I'm sure that the doctors would have noticed if the injuries were inconsistent with dog bites. What do you think these people have to gain by lying?:confused:
Publicity, entertainment....Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
What do you think these people have to gain by lying?:confused:
I'm not saying that something like this happened and that the doctors and the victims were lying, I'm just saying that maybe the article was false, just like the Macdonalds one we encountered a while ago.
Really? The thing is, I never saw those Scopes.com type stories in the news. Only through emails.
I think it's true as the whole thing seems too weird NOT to be.
I don't believe this story one bit. First off there are TONS of errors in almost every article I read about it and it seems that things keep changing and changing. They also talked about it on the radio as well, and hrmm, seems like they have a different side as well.
I agree with Kayann, yes kids have young puppies but Soledad you are missing her argument. They aquired this puppy at THREE weeks of age!!! That is not old enough for a pup to leave his mother, period, I don't care who the hell owned it. If it was motherless maybe, but that is way too young.
Actually, the anesthesia doesn’t make the patient numb. It only puts the mind and body in a state of suspension. The body can’t feel pain without the brains help. There have been numerous cases of patients who are totally awake in surgery, but unable to move and tell the doctors. They are completely aware and feel all the pain from the surgery.Quote:
Originally posted by popcornbird
When they use anesthesia on patients when doing a surgery, it makes the patients NUMB, and they cannot feel the surgery, no matter how much the doctors cut them open, until the effect is gone.
Numbness and paralysis are two different things. If your hands numb, that means you have sensation in it. Paralysis means the nerves were damaged and no feeling will be possible, particularly if the nerves were severed.
On the subject of the pup eating the fingers. I believe a pit pup has the jaw power to chew through a child’s fingers. Many times I had to stop Chester from chewing on my hands, fingers, and toes when he was a pup. Now, if I were asleep and therefore couldn't feel it or see him to stop him (and my hands smelled of, and probably still had on them, people food) he probably would have kept on chewing. Chester wouldn't have had the capabilities to eat my hand, but a different breed would.
And this is really no ones “fault”. Just one of those truly horrible things that happen to people. No the tiny pup shouldn’t have been in the bed, but in a crate. No the pup shouldn’t have been taken from its mother so young. And yes the child should have washed his hands after eating. Did any of these things cause this? Yes all of them contributed to the horrific incident. But still, really no one’s fault, except maybe the breeders that would allow a pup to be taken at 3 and a half weeks.
I do not think this is the pups fault either. It was doing something quite natural to a pup that should have still been with his mother. Eating at the smell of food. I think the fact that the kid didn’t wash his hands after dinner was the entire reason that the pups instincts took over and kicked in his hunger drive. That’s what made him eat the fingers. Not a bad pup, just one that smelled food of some sort and ate. Survival instinct.
Many times I was severely bitten (to the point of blood once) after eating chicken and not washing. Should Chester have been destroyed? No, of course not.
Which would make me suspect that it is false even more so. Most stories like this that are true are usually on the news.Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
Really? The thing is, I never saw those Scopes.com type stories in the news. Only through emails.
These puppies look large enough to bite tiny fingers to me.
Their large, but it doesn't mean their teeth are strong enough or large.
I've seen puppies that age tear through a rawhide bone and pig's ear. Can you tell me, scientifically, if a six year old's finger bones are so tough that they cannot be bitten off by a puppy?
I think ANY dog can do damage to a finger, especially if hungry. How do we know they even fed the dog and it wasn't starving? One of my rats bit Dylan once so badly he had to have 6 stitches in his finger, because he had the smell of food on his hand. Did we euthanize the rat? NO, why? Because she thought it was food and bit first and asked questions later. Was it our fault? Damn right it was, Dan should have closed the door behind him and never let Dylan in there as he knew that doe was fed through the bars in the past, teaching her that everything that came into the cage was food, not human fingers.
When you become a parent you have a special responsibility to keep your children safe. If I knew my son was paralyzed and could not feel biting I would make sure I supervised my son and the dogs interaction together, since puppies are known to playbite and knawl etc.
You have a good point, Luckies. However, I don't think it's unreasonable that a mother wouldn't think that letting her two sons sleep with their new puppy would end like this.
A friend of mine breeds American Bulldogs similar to that breed and yes they could very much chew off a finger. These dogs are HUGE. Her new 6 month old pup already weighs 125 pounds.Quote:
Originally posted by Kfamr
Their large, but it doesn't mean their teeth are strong enough or large.
Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
You have a good point, Luckies. However, I don't think it's unreasonable that a mother wouldn't think that letting her two sons sleep with their new puppy would end like this.
I don't think any mother would ever dreamed something like this would happen. It's terrible this happened, if it did, and I feel sorry for both the dog and the son. But the truth is, none of us knows what really happened. Could have been the kids fault and no one is saying anything, or it could have been that the dog was just starving or had a few screws lose in his head. We will never know.
Micki, this is scary -- We've been agreeing too much lately. :rolleyes: :p :p :p
I don't like the mother comment about dogs though. Saying how she would stick to fish and birds, and not have animals "Like dogs".
Quote:
Originally posted by luckies4me
I don't like the mother comment about dogs though. Saying how she would stick to fish and birds, and not have animals "Like dogs".
Yeah, that bothered me too.
Doesn't seem like the mother is too bright.
I don't know...I'd be pretty scarred if I were her. That's about the nicest thing I could probably come up with.
:eek:Quote:
Originally posted by Kfamr
Micki, this is scary -- We've been agreeing too much lately. :rolleyes: :p :p :p
LOL! I know KayAnn. We need to stop it and get back to fighting! :p :D
If a loved one of mine had his/her fingers bit OFF by ANY type of animal, I wouldn't have anything to do with that type of animal again. I think its a very valid point. She's obviously upset about what happened to her child, and if she doesn't feel comfortable to have a dog as a pet anymore, that's none of anyone's business. Its her choice. If I was bit hard enough by a cat that it would even cause me to have stitches, I don't think I would be brave enough to go near a cat again, despite how much I love them. Just an example. Why should we care if she doesn't plan on having a dog again?
Quote:
Originally posted by micki76
:eek:
LOL! I know KayAnn. We need to stop it and get back to fighting! :p :D
*HISSES*:p ;)
Even your own birds?Quote:
Originally posted by popcornbird
If a loved one of mine had his/her fingers bit OFF by ANY type of animal, I wouldn't have anything to do with that type of animal again. I think its a very valid point. She's obviously upset about what happened to her child, and if she doesn't feel comfortable to have a dog as a pet anymore, that's none of anyone's business. Its her choice. If I was bit hard enough by a cat that it would even cause me to have stitches, I don't think I would be brave enough to go near a cat again, despite how much I love them. Just an example. Why should we care if she doesn't plan on having a dog again?
*Scratches out KayAnn’s eyes*Quote:
Originally posted by Kfamr
*HISSES*:p ;)
Wow, I feel better now that we're back on normal terms. :D
MY own birds would never bite an ant, not even play bite. Birds as little as cockatiels, even when not tamed and evil, do not have the power to bite someone to that extent. They might be able to make someone bleed, but its not more than a little cut. No way possible for a little tiel to bite hard enough to really injure someone severely.Quote:
Originally posted by Kfamr
Even your own birds?
As for a macaw or larger bird, I have always had good experience with them, but if one went as far as to bite me that hard, I'm quite certain that I'd be scared of those birds for life.
Quote:
Originally posted by popcornbird
MY own birds would never bite an ant, not even play bite. Birds as little as cockatiels, even when not tamed and evil, do not have the power to bite someone to that extent. They might be able to make someone bleed, but its not more than a little cut. No way possible for a little tiel to bite hard enough to really injure someone severely.
As for a macaw or larger bird, I have always had good experience with them, but if one went as far as to bite me that hard, I'm quite certain that I'd be scared of those birds for life.
I'm not saying they would or they could but if it was possible and if they did, how would you feel?
And what if your birds happened to be a larger bird, and you loved them the same as you did Popcorn and Muffin, how would you feel?
Oh it feels good, even the scratching of eyeballs -- cause I know such actions come deeply and passionatly from the bottom of your heart. YOU DO LOVE ME!:D :DQuote:
Originally posted by micki76
*Scratches out KayAnn’s eyes*
Wow, I feel better now that we're back on normal terms. :D
Well I have been bitten by several different animals but am still around them. I have been attacked by dogs and cats several times, but it's not their fault. Either they were scared or it was my fault, like in the case where I got too close to a pits face and he bit me in the nose. MY fault, not his. And I still love dogs. I have been bitten by rats, and I still love rats. Her comment was very stupid because is she was bright enough she should know that one bad apple doesn't ruin the whole crop.
I've taken care of lots of paralyzed people before and it's entirely possible that the child couldn't feel what was going on.
So - just to play devil's advocate, let's pretend like we believe the story's true:
We can assume that, to the little puppy, they wouldn't really be like fingers - because they wouldn't have been moving. I mean - when you're playing with puppies they bite your fingers all the time, then you jerk your hand back and say "Ouch", and the puppy learns not to chew on them. Fingers are supposed to move when you bite them.
So let's imagine an innocent little teething puppy (they are teething by that age, aren't they? I really don't know) licks these fingers and notices they taste really good. So he starts chewing on them, and they don't move so the puppy thinks it must be OK to chew them. So he just keeps chewing. Then he gets down to a nice bone to chew on, and it feels good to chew it because it's massaging his cute little gums.
So - I guess if I stretch it, I can imagine that a puppy could chew off a finger of a paralyzed person.
But 4 fingers? And the kid just got up and walked around the next morning? Come on!!! The puppy would have chewed through arteries. The kid would have lost a LOT of blood. Don't you think the kid would have at least lost consciousness from blood loss? The entire bed would have been covered with blood - you'd think that he would have gotten cold from the wet bed long before morning, assuming he was conscious.
If this did indeed happen, nobody did anything wrong though. Most people don't know that much about dogs so the mom might not have thought twice before putting the puppy in bed with her child. I'm sure she never would have imagined something like that happening. And the puppy certainly didn't do anything wrong.
Now I'm going to have to go read the story, which I haven't done yet.
Oh jeez - I just read the second link. It actually sounds somewhat plausible to me. The truth is stranger than fiction. But why on earth would they euthanize the puppy? For crying out loud.
I never even thought of that, and I have to agree with you. There are lots of arteries in a hand. This is a child, a weak little child. He would be out for sure. The only way one wouldn't bleed or atleast not very much would be if he/she was in shock, which apparently wasn't the case here.Quote:
But 4 fingers? And the kid just got up and walked around the next morning? Come on!!! The puppy would have chewed through arteries. The kid would have lost a LOT of blood. Don't you think the kid would have at least lost consciousness from blood loss? The entire bed would have been covered with blood - you'd think that he would have gotten cold from the wet bed long before morning, assuming he was conscious.
As for the anesthesia thing, when my mom had a cesarean section with me, I'm not sure what they did to her, but she could feel the entire thing. The was awake, and her body was numb, but she could still feel when they cut her open and stitched her back up. However, that was 16 years ago and so the methods have probably changed. 5 years ago when she had another C-section with my brother, she couldn't feel a thing and they stapled her up. She was sad that she didn't get to feel it, lol, she said it felt cool.
Anyways that got off topic.
Logan,
Hi. You said you had mixed feelings about this, but didn't
elaborate. If you've had time to think about it, I'd really like
to know your opinion. Thanks. Liz.
Although I haven't read the news link, just the story, and only just now finished reading all of the comments, it does seem to me that the story could be true. Several people here have had the same thoughts that I initially did. A couple of fingers that taste good and don't move could lead a dog to believe it was food. I never met a puppy who wouldn't chew on a finger at some time in his/her puppyhood if allowed. Of course we feel the pain and pull away.
I see lots of bad things all coming together here which caused this. First of all the age of the puppy is incredible. As others have said, why was it ever adopted at such a young age. It should have remained with its mother for at least another 3 -4 weeks minimum! Secondly, the irresponsibility of the parents for reasons that others have stated. Thirdly, I do also assign some blame to the dog. I know many people get upset when they read that pit bulls and some other breeds are getting bad raps in these types of instances. Well we have discussed over and over again here at Pet Talk *RESPONSIBLE BREEDING!* This is breeding done by a professional who is always trying to improve the breed by breeding in the positive traits and and breeding out the things that are not desirable. Since pit bulls and others are so popular among those who use them for fighting, etc. it is not surprising to me that they would be the same people breeding these dogs, however with the intent of breeding the undesirable things (aggressive temperament, etc.) for their own sick ends. I don't doubt for a minute that there are sweet pit bulls available but I think that irresponsible breeding on the part of a lot of sickos has resulted in dogs that are totally inappropriate as pets. I'm not saying this dog was, but I can see it happening. Also, I am not singling out pits as the only dogs irresponsibly bred, but I think the intent there is to make as mean a dog as possible in a lot of instances. JMHO!
Pam,
Do you think the breed & breeding of this particular dog made
a difference in the outcome ? In other words, was this dog
typical of other puppies his own age? (in these circumstances)