Apparently, the first thing Roy said was "do not kill the tiger."
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Apparently, the first thing Roy said was "do not kill the tiger."
Yes that was very mean of me to say. I read it wrong. I do hope he recovers and it must be scary. I can see that they love their tigers very much, but I still do not believe it breeding the white tiger as a "novelty", as they do not occur that often in the wild.
I amglad the tiger will remain alive and that he loves him so much as to spare him.
Of course they aren't going to "put down" an endangered species... The magicians do know these animals. This tiger has been performing with them a long time (six years I believe... the "first time" thing was a theatrical gimmick they do every show...), and the guys just didn't recognize he was having an off day. (Magicians, especially ones like these, would never have an animal preform on an "off day." They have other animals trained to take their place...) So, all in all, it is an unfortunate, frightning, and sad story. Not unexpected but not predictable.Quote:
Originally posted by WolfChan
What happened was this (Getting this info from another forum BTW): Monticore was noticed to be limping slightly. Roy told him to "sit", and when he did not sit Roy tried to gently push him into a sitting position. When bitten, Roy thumped the tier on the nose to try and startle him into letting go, but the microphone in his hand made a "boom" noise, and the tiger did as he should be expected to and attacked the source of the noise. After that, he dragged Roy offstage.
Montecore is not going to be put down. (Huzzah!)
The only message I can see in this is that wild animals ARE wild. Even those that are captively bred are still wild. People should always be aware of that. (And I believe Roy is. Even with precautions, things can happen. He dropped the chain lead they use when commanding the tigers too... Another accident that added to the problem.)
The truly upsetting and frightening thing is NOT this incident but the fact that completely ignorant people can aquire many "exotic" animals--including big cats--just on a whim. It is cruel to the animals, dangerous to the people. I hope those people will read the story, get scared, and NEVER get an exotic animal. Roy's tigers are treated well, and he knows their insticts. Why dwell on HIM rather than an inner city drug dealer who gives his girlfriend a pet lion cub (declawed and neutered no less)? Those are the horrific stories. Those are the people who I pray to God were at that show and are scared to death of ever getting NEAR a big cat...
Just my two and a half cents.
Nah, "domesticated" is an animal removed from any wild heritage by many (hundreds of) generations. An animal that is specifically suited for a life with human beings. Dogs and cats and cows are domesticated (although you are completely right that they retain instincts).Quote:
Originally posted by RICHARD
Domesticated is just a nice word that says you can trust the animal you live with 99.9% of the time.
Tigers, even born in captivity, are NOT domesticated in any way, shape, or form. They are exotic. They are wild. They have all their instincts in tact. You don't tame tigers. Training a dog is getting him to do what you want. Training a TIGER is learning how to read him, and him getting what HE wants from you. You can't force a wild animal to do anything. You can only try as hard as you can to understand it and what it is thinking, and how it will react...
Try this story on for size:
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/...headlines-span
Tiger Found In Harlem Apt.
By Wil Cruz and Jeremy Olshan
October 4, 2003, 8:58 PM EDT
A Bengal tiger being kept as a pet in a fifth-floor Harlem apartment was tranquilized and carted away by police Saturday night after a daring descent down the side of the building by cops with sedation darts and a machine gun.
The wild beast did not go quietly. The crowd of several hundred on the street below, which had been transfixed during the hours-long drama, heard a loud roar as the dart hit its mark.
[...]
Police were still searching for Antoine Yates, 36, whom they identified as the man keeping the tiger and a three-foot caiman, a type of crocodile, in the public housing apartment. They were tipped off to the illegal menagerie after Yates was taken to the hospital Wednesday to be treated for animal bites.
Yates told the doctor he had been bitten on his right arm and leg by his pit bull, but the doctors, after examining both fresh and old wounds, were suspicious. Police said they also received an anonymous call about wild animals biting people at Yates' address.
[...]
The golden brown, striped, 6-foot-long tiger, which experts say could easily kill or maim a human, was taken to the Bronx Zoo, where it will stay temporarily before being moved, perhaps to a facility in Ohio, police said. It is healthy and in good condition, officials said.
[...]
"He got the tiger when it was very little some three to five years ago," said a neighbor who would identify himself only as Moe. "That was his pet. It just outgrew him."
An estimated 7,000 tigers are kept privately worldwide, purchased for thousands of dollars on the black market, according to James Doherty, general curator of the Bronx Zoo. "That's well more than all the wild tigers in all of Asia," he said.
Since 1990 at least eight people have been killed by tigers, and more than 60 adults and children have been injured, Doherty said. "They can be tamed, as Sigfried and Roy had done up until night, but I can think of nothing more dangerous or more inhumane than keeping a wild tiger as a pet."
If you ask me, THIS guy is the one who deseves being in critical condition in a hospital. Honestly, a tiger in an apartment...
Poor, scared animal. THIS is abuse.
And it "outgrew him." Please. ("I swear, I thought tigers stopped growing at around 20 pounds... I had no idea they weren't suited to apartment life...")
I heard on the news last night that Roy told the authorities "Please, don't blame the cat, it wasn't his fault. Please don't KILL the cat."
I hope they listen to him. That cat was only doing what his instincts told him to do and that was to defend himself because he felt threatened.
I hope Roy recovers, don't get me wrong, but I DO hope they don't euthanize that tiger for following his instincts.
Moosmom, I honestly doubt that the authorities would put down such an endangered animal. And the animals rights groups along with Sigfried and Company would never allow it to happen. Truthfully, I think the majority of people see this as an eventuallity when dealing with wild animals. A tragedy, but not necessarily unexpected.
What Led to Tiger Attack?
Oct 7, 10:09 AM EST
Associated Press
Siegfried & Roy's longtime manager said Tuesday he thought the act went awry when Montecore the tiger got distracted by something in the audience.
Moments later the tiger attacked trainer and performer Roy Horn, leaving him in critical condition.
"Roy — heroically, from my perception — got in front of him and started to nudge him," manager Bernie Yuman told ABC-TVs "Good Morning America."
"They were both out of their routine. One thing led to another, and it was a tragic accident," he said.
Exquisite white tigers have been Horn's passion for almost 40 years. A modern day Dr. Dolittle who called the cats his children, Horn spent vast amounts of time, energy and money on animals that have left millions of show-goers here in awe since 1966.
The menagerie developed by Horn and longtime stage partner Siegfried Fischbacher includes 63 rare white tigers and white lions. Horn has been on hand for many of their births.
"The first voice they hear is mine, the first touch they feel is mine, the first human face they see is mine," Horn said in an interview in late 2000. "They just think I'm a strange tiger who walks on two legs."
But on Friday night, just 20 hours after Horn had celebrated his 59th birthday with hundreds of friends, one of the beasts inexplicably turned on its owner at the Mirage hotel-casino.
As he had done thousands of times, Horn sauntered onto the stage with 7-year-old Montecore, a white tiger who has appeared in the show since he was 6 months old — telling the capacity crowd of 1,503 it was the cat's stage debut — a little white tiger lie.
Montecore was told to lie down, but balked and grabbed Horn's arm in his mouth. Horn struck Montecore with his microphone, trying to get him to loosen his grip. Montecore then grabbed Horn by his throat, dragging him backstage where handlers subdued the tiger by spraying him with a fire extinguisher.
Horn prided himself in knowing his animals and his animals knowing him. In more than 40 years of close encounters with some of the world's most exotic animals, Horn was never injured by any of the creatures, Horn said in a 2000 interview for the book "Siegfried & Roy's Gift for the Ages."
"Siegfried and I have spent every waking moment with our animals," Horn said. "We watch and observe. We talk to them, take walks with them, swim with them, meditate with them. Day by day, we learn about each other. But you must have patience and respect for Mother Nature. Because when an animal gives you its trust, you feel like you have been given the most beautiful gift in the world."
Horn said whatever situation he's put in with his animals, "I always try to think as they think. We can always solve our arguments in an understanding way because I respect them and they respect me."
Only once was that philosophy tested, he said in the 2000 interview.
He was playing hide and seek, as he often did, with a Siberian tiger named Sahra.
"After rolling around in the grass together, she suddenly laid on top of me and pinned me down," Horn recalled. "Our eyes met and I realized she was no longer playing; she was about to bite me. Trusting my instincts, I raised my head and bit her nose as hard as I could.
"Totally perplexed, she jumped up and pretended it never happened. I immediately made our friendship sound — ff-fuff, ff-fuff. She never attempted to bite me again."
The bonds with special animals begin at an early age. When a white lion or white tiger is pregnant she is cared for at special birthing facilities at Siegfried & Roy's Secret Garden, an animal habitat at the Mirage.
"I think this is incredible when you consider an animal like this can kill their own mate over young ones, and to think that she accepts Roy to be a part of the experience is a miracle," Fischbacher said.
Horn's love of animals dates back to postwar Germany, when his father returned home from the German military with an animal that was half dog, half wolf. Horn and the dog, Hexe, became inseparable, spending their days wandering in the nearby woods.
"If it wasn't for Hexe, I wouldn't be sitting here today," Horn said in the interview. One day Horn was sucked into a swamp area and began sinking. Hexe raced to a nearby farmhouse and brought help, Horn recalled.
Horn left home at an early age to become a bellboy on the cruise ship, where he met Fischbacher, a young magician who was one of the ship's entertainers.
The two first played Las Vegas in 1966, then returned as a featured act in 1974. They signed an unprecedented $57.5 million contract to play the Mirage in a theater bearing their name beginning in 1990. In 2001, after performing some 5,000 shows before more than 7 million people at the Mirage, they signed a lifetime contract with the resort.
The day after the attack, the show was closed indefinitely.
I saw this interview on GMA. wow.
Because Sigfreid and Roy domesticated Montecore, he will be euthanized. Very sad.
They cannot release him into the wild because he doesn't know how to hunt prey to feed himself, they always fed him.
They cannot put him in a zoo because his life would be in jeopardy with the other wild cats who aren't domesticated.
I am seriously heartbroken over this whole episode. These two men made millions of dollars off of these wild cats (confessing their love and compassion for them). But all the time they were hurting the cats chances for survival because the cats trust humans too much and now cannot be where they should've been to begin with, out in the wild with their fellow wild animals.
Another precious life down the tubes because of humans STUPIDITY!!!
Huh? Why? Did I miss something? Where did you read that?? There are sanctuaries for cats like Montecore. Why wouldn't Siegfried & Roy keep him or send him to a sanctuary? Don't they keep retired tiger "stars"? Most magicians do.... The big cats in sanctuaries are often MUCH worse off before they got there. HORRIBLY vicious from being severely abused/neglected (often kept in apartments or tiny cages), mutilated by declawings and other things. Why would Monticore, a well-raised and properly treated animal "owned" by people who care about him (and can afford to care for him or place him in a place he can be cared for), be less of a candidate for such a sanctuary?Quote:
Originally posted by moosmom
Because Sigfreid and Roy domesticated Montecore, he will be euthanized. Very sad.
Sorry, but that just isn't logical. Did you read that in a paper or hear a news report?
That's not true. According to every article I have read, the tiger will NOT be killed.Quote:
Because Sigfreid and Roy domesticated Montecore, he will be euthanized.
And, just a note, tigers are never "domesticated". Some of them might be "tame", like Montecore, but they are never "domesticated." It takes many thousands of generations to domesticate a species, such as dogs, cows, etc. Taming one animal does not a domestic species make.
Actually Twister, the animal trainer on GMA used a different distinction. He says that they arent ever "tame" either, only "trained".
I stand corrected I guess. There are so many stories and versions of what took place, it's difficult to say what's true and what's not.
I just heard on the radio that Montecore felt Roy was in danger and was actually trying to PROTECT Roy by first grabbing his sleeve and pulling him down on the floor. She then grabbed him by the nap of the neck like a tiger mother does when she carries her cubs to safety.
It was also reported that Roy suffered a stroke from all the blood loss.
I guess we'll never know exactly WHAT was going through Montecore's mind. I do hope that they put her in a sanctuary where she can live out her remaining years.
Siegfried did an interview on CNN last night (it may have been Larry King)--did anyone see it??
It was on at work, but with the sound muted, so I couldn't catch anything.
edit: I just found the story on CNN.com, here's the link, if anyone's interested.
I found the second part interesting as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/10/0...roy/index.html
I saw him on GMA this morning. Boy does he love that man. You could see him barely, but nobely holding it together, saying only the most positive and beautiful things about him....
That actually makes a lot of sense... When I heard that Montecore dragged him off the stage like that, I thought it didn't sound like a mauling...Quote:
Originally posted by moosmom
I just heard on the radio that Montecore felt Roy was in danger and was actually trying to PROTECT Roy by first grabbing his sleeve and pulling him down on the floor. She then grabbed him by the nap of the neck like a tiger mother does when she carries her cubs to safety.
Can't you just get one of those "DomesticationQuote:
Originally posted by Twisterdog
It takes many thousands of generations to domesticate a species, such as dogs, cows, etc. Taming one animal does not a domestic species make.
for Dummies" books and hurry the process along??
:confused:
Here's the link to the transcript from Larry King Live, last night, where Larry was speaking with Siegfried and their manager....The article from CNN that Emily posted takes it's excerpts from this.
Larry King Live
I thought, in a way, it was very enlightening. Hopefully it will shed some new light on the whole situation for the rest of you.
Thanks for posting that link Logan. I kept laughing though, because as I was reading it I had Larry King's voice in my head.
YUMAN: In his area in the Secret Garden which is a private area. And certainly, the last person to blame anybody especially Montecor would be Roy or Siegfried. And Monticor is safe and he will have a great life and continue to thrive and be well.
This quote from the manager should clear things up a bit.
Wasn't there another tiger attack this week?
Not that I heard of, but they did find a tape of the bear mauling in Alaska.Quote:
Originally posted by RICHARD
Wasn't there another tiger attack this week?
Apparently they turned a camera on when they heard the bear...then it attacked and they have audio of the guy being mauled then it cut out.
Kinda Blair Witch if you ask me.....:eek:
Quote:
Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
Kinda Blair Witch if you ask me.....:eek:
as long as the tape didn't have that caption thing like, 'our anniversay' or 'a day at the park'
I saw the ranger's tape of the site...
The bear got the guy first, the gal yelled for him to play dead, then she went to his aid with a stick.
It was on the Today show yesterday morning. A young woman that helps out a refuge, was bit in the leg by one of the tigers.Quote:
Originally posted by RICHARD
Wasn't there another tiger attack this week?
Can probably find the info at their website.
Channel surfing last night I saw the Siegfried and Roy 'official' DVDs on sale....
My only question is are they LETTERBOX format????:rolleyes: :rolleyes: