Audrey posted to tell us that she might be getting a new kitten.
Let's get back to that topic.
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Audrey posted to tell us that she might be getting a new kitten.
Let's get back to that topic.
uabassoon, I searched out the original thread and finally found what she's so reluctant to repost. Apparently the "good reason" is that the "cat got out before it could be spayed." Sorry, but I've heard that before. It doesn't fly with me. Mine were both spayed immediatly. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. And, if you can't afford to spay, then you can't afford to care for the cat.Quote:
Originally posted by Uabassoon
The thing that makes me really sad about this thread is the fact that you honestly believe there is a good reason for your friend not spaying her cat. To those of us that have worked at a shelter or volunteered or even fostered. We've seen these "cute kittens" that get put to sleep everyday because people like your friend have "good reasons" for not getting them spayed. I've reread this thread and I still can't find this "good reason" you just say it isn't anyone's buisness. But it is our business because we are the people who have to look at "cute kittens" as they wonder why they live in a cage and how much it breaks our heart every time one has to get put to sleep. As horrible as I think it is that you want to declaw, I understand that when it comes down to it it's your desicion. But the fact that you think it's ok to keep bringing in kittens when so many have to die, that really hurts.
I know this thread is getting ugly, and that is too bad. They're such precious little baby kitties and the mom is beautiful. Hopefully, they'll all find homes where they can get love and the care they deserve.
I never got an animal until I had my own home to give to it. When you're living with your mom, you are not in a position to go out and get animals that your mom clearly does not want. I'm sorry. I know that may sound hurtful. But you are 18 and should be saving your money for college and your own place, not getting more animals.
Uabassoon- we never said that they were good reasons, we just said that she had her reasons and that she was stupid for it. And trust me, these kittens arent leaving until a good home is found.
Cataholic- no its actually not, some things im sure i might have took the wrong way, but then again maybe i didnt, its easy to misunderstand when we cant see the body language and to hear to the tone.
nodgeness- BRAVO!
Uba: That isn't what I said at all..Moira is my friends sister, I don't know her well I'm not going to tell her to spay her cat with all that has recently happened to her (personal matters)
Yes, it may be judgemental, and I willing to admit that, but I stand by my statement.Quote:
Originally posted by Cataholic
You know, you are relatively new here, and I think we have established the judging attitude is not the way to go. To come on and say, "I have never been so disgusted by a thred" is pretty dern judgmental, IMHO.
I think Donna saw the point, and made the appropriate adjustments....
Btw, Donna's retraction came while I was typing my post, so the sentiment of my post was expressed before I saw the adjustments.
Thank you twirlbird! Now can we get back to the original question? or doesn't anyone remember what that is?
Quote:
Originally posted by twirlbird
Cataholic- no its actually not, some things im sure i might have took the wrong way, but then again maybe i didnt, its easy to misunderstand when we cant see the body language and to hear to the tone.
The problem is that I didn't read your post clearly, so I deleted mine question back to you. It was my mistake.:)
In this thread the original question by slleipnir was
Do you think they'll have long fur? Or is it too earlyl?
& the other thread was about kitty names & whether we thought she should get a male kitty or a female kitty to go w/ her older female cat.
Do you think her questions got answered?
2kitties: Why are you telling me about someone elses cat? like its somehow my responsibility for her? Its not. I barly know her.
Also, I have no plans on moving out. I never ment she doesn't want it, I ment its not the end of the world if we don't get one, shes being kind in letting me keep one there. She loves smitten just as much as me.
-goes to look at the cute kittens..intention of post-
Okay for the way you tell if they have long fur, i read that if the fur is shiny it will be short, if its dull it will be long is that true?
Twirly (hey, if you know Schleppy- I have to make you a nickname),
I had never heard that about the fur length. I am trying to think back to my true kittens- Allie and Dakky. Allie does have shiny hair, and it is longer than Dakky's who has a duller finish...so, maybe you heard it wrong? But, Tenny has dull hair, and boy is he a long haired one. And, Tex is a shorty with a shiny coat.
Who else knows about the fur and shiny v. dull?
I probably did, it came from about.com which will put anyone up lol
Very, very cute kittens! And the mom is precious, too. If I could take her, I would.
The other topic has been hashed out before and I'm going to stay out of it.
Thanks for the adorable pictures!!
You and your welfare sites..god twirly..;)Quote:
Originally posted by twirlbird
I probably did, it came from about.com which will put anyone up lol
Schleppy- a little less bashing and a little more cleaning out of your pm box, por favor.
lol..yesh me lord
Shes just jealous cause i upgraded from a tv box to a fridge box, and shes still stuck with the blender box
Blender? Noo, I'm afraid THAT blew away last week!! hah, now I'm in a rotting flap of a box I found in a mud puddle..
oh yes, sorry i forgot that it "blew" away last week
What are you implying?! YOU STOLE IT!! I knew it! You just HAD to have the garage addon didnt you?
What are you talking about i found that blender box with Audreys house do not move written on it by the side of the road. I just had to take all the stuff out of it. I found it i tells you
:( RIP box
holy chicken! very very pretty mother! ...yeah maybe it's too early to say if they'll have long hair but lemme ask you, how old are they? then maybe I can say!
any more pictures!?
They are one week old today. I think slleipnir took those pics thurs or fri, cant really member.
well..then I think...they probably have at least medium-haired. . .
slle: why can't you have a kitty from them?
Sorry, but I have to add my snippy remark. After working for a month at a vet's office where I get to smell the stench of skin and bone being chopped off with a laser and see the little toes and nails sitting on the operating tray, I'm MORE than entitled to an opinion!!
If I knew what declawing was and I wanted a kitten, but my mom said it would happen only if it were to be declawed...I'd move out, educate my mother on declawing and get a kitten once I could give it the home it deserved. Believe it or not...not EVERYONE declaws or will declaw those four kittens. You are NOT doing it a favor by "saving" it...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
As far as getting off topic, I think it is sometimes absolutely necessary. I applaud the people who speak up for the voiceless animals. Many of us do shelter work and see terrible sights on a DAILY basis. I would like to see some of you go through that and then try to keep your mouth shut when you see something happening that could be prevented with some education.
With that said, I agree that bashing someone is not the way to go about it. I am sorry you felt attacked, Audrey. I don't want to attack you further. I just want to ask you to watch a video of a declawing procedure being done to a kitten. Or at least a video of the recovery when the kitten wakes up. It is one of the worst things I have ever seen in my life. I think that may change your mind about it.
I have 4 cats (3 of them under a year old) running all over my house with their claws. My furniture is all unharmed. I have some mini scratching posts downstairs and a big one upstairs. I've trained all the cats that is where they go to scratch. They actually like returning to the same place to do it anyway.
AMEN KELLY!!!!
Slleipnir worked in a vet clinic for 4 months-hmmm feb to june ok mebbe 5 months- so she has seen what goes on in a declawing surgery. Declawing is also pretty common here, so chances are they will get declawed or atleast one will.
And people for the love of God this post is not about declawing, you have made your points clear, but in the end its her decision. THE TOPIC OF THIS POST IS LONG OR SHORT FUR--for those of you who cant remember
Please figure this:
There are currently living 6,8 Million cats (!) in German Households and all have their claws as declawing is (like in most European countries) illeagal...we even don't know "soft paws" over here...it's not that we're living in scratched mess homes over here, but it's just that we accept that cats come with claws...
I have lots of friends having cats and dogs (no problem the cats have claws), I have friends with cats and antiques (no problem the cats have claws), I have friends with cats and kids (no problem either)...do you think you have different cats over there than we have, or why is it that declawing is no issue here?!
I think even if you would have only No-Kill Shelters (like we have), do you think the declawing would stop?! Lots of you argument that rather the option of having a cat declawed is better than having a cat euthanzied is what you make accept declawing...do you think the attitude would change if there would be the option of having a cat declawed or having it in a No-Kill Shelter!?
Still I think there's no real reason for this procedure...unlike spaying/neutering (which was also mentioned as a surgery on cats) declawing doesn't serve the cat, it only serves the humans...
I feel so strongly about this issue (and most of the European Pet Talkers do, too), because we live with our cats and their claws...and it works!!!
Please again, I don't want to offend anyone, but I still wonder why some people just live with cats and claws, while it is such a huge problem for others...
I think the world is spilt into three sorts of people:-Quote:
Originally posted by bisi.cat
do you think you have different cats over there than we have, or why is it that declawing is no issue here?!
Please again, I don't want to offend anyone, but I still wonder why some people just live with cats and claws, while it is such a huge problem for others...
1: People who has little or no knowledge about Declawing but Declaw following vets advice or because they simply thought it had to be done.
2: People who have been educated about Declawing issues and are against Declawing.
3:People who have been educated about Declawing issues and are still for Declawing.
---------------------------------
Type one person needs educating on the problems disadvantages of declawing. This will prevent kittens being spayed and declawed at the same time, as a routine operation.
I DON'T BLAME ANY CAT OWNERS WHO HAD/HAS CAT(S) DECLAWED BEFORE THEY UNDERSTOOD THE PROCEDURE.
Type two people are perfect just the way they are ;)
Type Three people know the problem of declawing but seem to think the potential problems caused by Declawing won't happen to their cats and that declawing is essential. Though I have observed that often no concrete reason is given as to WHY this is so necessary. (Is spending 5 minutes training a cat to use a scratching post such a problem ?) :(
This thread is a perfect example, despite having no need to declaw a cat, that is probually what will happen (though I hope we don't hear about it)
But sadly until the USA making Declawing illegal, these type three people who know the facts and still want to declaw,will still exercise their right to torture and mutilate innocent cats, until this right is removed by law.
All we can do is educate Type 1 people, try to educate type 3 people (and often fail as these people know the facts and still want to go ahead with this procedure) and hope the USA will ban declawing sooner rather than later.
PS. Removing a persons fingers at the first knuckle is a description of torture & mutilation in my book. Just because the vets will charge to perform this action on a cat, doesn't make it right.....Remember even hitmen charge !!!!
lol..Ok. Aly, I don't need a video, I've seen it done many times.
Also. You ppl seem to think I'm all for this. Like I'm over joyed at doing it. Like I couldn't care less for the safty of my cat. Your wrong. Maybe you should know how much I truely love and want cats..When I was a kid, I ALWAYS wanted a kitten. My dad doesn't like them so I could never have one. When I was a little older, my mom said I could have one. I was so excited by this new. So, for my b-day, my mom and dad always got me to write a list of things I want. So in huge letters I wrote KITTEN!!!! Thats all I wanted.. I didn't care if I didn't even get anything for x-mas..I found out later I couldn't get one till I got Smitten. I will admit at the time, I didn't know anything about declawing. I was just happy to have my kitten. I didn't know anything bad could happen. So, she is declawed.
I don't like how you ppl use 'educate'..I know a lot about it, so please stop using the word. My dad even printed more stuff off for me. I read it. However it didn't mention anything about 'stretching' problems and what not. Just that its a pointless operation and isn't a good thing. It has health risks along with it, but what doesn't?
Moving out isn't an option. My cats will be better taken care of if left at my moms. I know I couldn't afford a place right now and have pets.
I am not 'for' declawing. I don't like it, and its not something I'm proud to do. I do think/know it will cause pain to the cat unneccessarily. However, I don't think I'm being cruel. I feel if the kitten would go to a good home, not be declawed, then its better for it that way. Unfortunatly, I know ppl. When I worked at the vet clinic, there was a lot of cats being declawed. Its more then likely it gets declawed anyway. Or, it be discarded like an object when its not a 'cute kitten' That will never happen. You ppl only seem to see one side of this, and its your side. I can go over and see your point, but you WON'T see mine. You don't want to, or even try to understand mine. Why can't you just think of how well this kitten will be taken care of and how much it will be loved? Isn't that really the most important?
I'm finished with the topic. Pay says "This thread is a perfect example, despite having no need to declaw a cat, that is probually what will happen (though I hope we don't hear about it) " when this topic wasn't ment to be anything but about those kittens. So, its not a perfect example at all. You guy brought it up, not me. You refuse to step in my shoes, so why should I step in yours?
We only have one shelter here, and unfortunatly it is a kill shelter, so bisi, whenever that happens maybe I'll change my mind.
When working at the clinic, a new vet came in. She showed me this other way in which she declaws. The other vet does the usual, taking the scalpal and cutting out the nail at the first joint, then glueing the paws. She however, did it a little different (now, I'm not saying this is any better) but instead of taking out the whole joint, she just cuts out the claw and the part which makes it grow in) which yes, still removes the claw, but is a bit better.
Gina: Because of its long fur :(
I will post pictures of it when I get it. If this topic is brought up again, I will delete *yes, delete -shock-* the thread and move on from the cat section. If this topic means that much to you then I won't bother you with my kitten, cause obviously the subject is more important.
(and yes, maybe not all of them, or maybe even any of them will be declawed..that could be because the owners are too poor however..I guess it won't be fixed either..so another litter is brought into the world...or, maybe they will all get declawed, maybe only 2..who knows. So don't go telling me I'm not 'saving' it, you make it seems that the claws are more important then its life or happiness. You ppl say you work at shelters, so you know how many cats go in..So yes, I do believe I'm 'saving' it because it will never need a second home.
I'm done with this topic, if it makes you feel better to keep on posting about how you disagree, and how I'll ruin its life and make it so unhappy then go ahead. But maybe you can try being a little more open minded and see it from a different angle.
http://unavoidable.net/smitts.jpg
God forbid if he ends up like this cat..I mean, shes obviously in pain, suffering and unhappy..clearly a horrible ruined life. Yeaah. She is quite the oppsite actually. Very playful as well.
Audrey , Just nevermind what people say. I've learned you have to ignore most remarks from people on here and just remember the positive ones.
I hope you get your kitty, and even when you do, post posts of pictures. Don't let people put you down and if they are STILL doing it after what's done is done, then that's just them being immature. And, like I said, Ignore it.
Um....ewwww! You've SEEN it and STILL think its OK???? I gave you way too much credit before this...Quote:
Originally posted by slleipnir
lol..Ok. Aly, I don't need a video, I've seen it done many times.
Educate...I personally used that word for you to share what declawing was with your mother. Is "learn", "teach", "tell" better? :rolleyes: If you are offended we are saying YOU are uneducated and you really ARE on declawing...and you STILL think its OK. I still with my idea that you are NOT educated.Quote:
I don't like how you ppl use 'educate'..I know a lot about it, so please stop using the word. My dad even printed more stuff off for me. I read it. However it didn't mention anything about 'stretching' problems and what not. Just that its a pointless operation and isn't a good thing. It has health risks along with it, but what doesn't?
Um...what????? Your dad doesn't want to declaw it? Does he want to? I don't see why your dad would be printing out information for you, specifically. Is he for it and trying to convince you?
So, EVERYONE that will adopt those kittens will declaw it? Interesting...is that something that is "done" where you live? Everyone where you live has $300+ to throw around to be spent on cat abuse??Quote:
I am not 'for' declawing. I don't like it, and its not something I'm proud to do. I do think/know it will cause pain to the cat unneccessarily. However, I don't think I'm being cruel. I feel if the kitten would go to a good home, not be declawed, then its better for it that way. Unfortunatly, I know ppl. When I worked at the vet clinic, there was a lot of cats being declawed. Its more then likely it gets declawed anyway. Or, it be discarded like an object when its not a 'cute kitten'
OK, your side...Quote:
You ppl only seem to see one side of this, and its your side. I can go over and see your point, but you WON'T see mine. You don't want to, or even try to understand mine. Why can't you just think of how well this kitten will be taken care of and how much it will be loved? Isn't that really the most important?
"I want a kitty so much. The only way I can get a cat is to concede to what my parents say and I'll get it. Regardless of what it is, I'm willing to do anything to this cat so that I can have it and love it."
Am I close???? We all know what its like to want something.
If this is the vet you are taking the kitten to for its declaw, please just have them do it the right way. This procedure almost guarantees horribly painful ingrown nails coming from the bone. :(Quote:
When working at the clinic, a new vet came in. She showed me this other way in which she declaws. The other vet does the usual, taking the scalpal and cutting out the nail at the first joint, then glueing the paws. She however, did it a little different (now, I'm not saying this is any better) but instead of taking out the whole joint, she just cuts out the claw and the part which makes it grow in) which yes, still removes the claw, but is a bit better.
I need to add a few things on this subject:
Education: www.declawing.com
Just because people don't "see" a difference in their cats, doesn't mean there isn't one. Ever hear that cats don't show signs of weakness or illness because they fear they'll be attacked/killed? Hmmmm.....yep, even pampered house cats.
People don't always (if ever) show what they are really feeling. Animals do the same. HOW do you know your cats aren't traumatized?? If I took your front line defense...no wait, if YOUR MOM, no...your only means of survival took your only defense, how would you feel?????
Now that I work for a vet, I am EVEN MORE against it. (I didn't think that was possible!)
I get to see these babies stumbling around because of their bandages, wincing in PAIN when they try to get up, crying if moved.
I get to SMELL the scent of burning flesh from the amputation because the vet I work for uses a laser.
I get to answer the phone calls and listen to how freaked out the humans are that their cats paws are bleeding everywhere.
I then, get to check those people in and again, see those poor furballs. In pain, again!!!
I also get to see people bring in their cats AGAIN to have the back paws declawed because, "For SOME reason, my cat is biting me more and using his back claws to REALLY get me!!" (idiots!!) Last week, we had to hear a Bengal cry the entire day, growl at anything that passed his cage and wince in pain so much, he about fell over. Of all cats to do that do...
**********************************************
For those of you NOT against it, you need to spend a day in a vets office to really see what these furkids go through.
To me, its quite obvious that this is cruel, uneducated behavior:
#1 I'm a cat, everything in my being makes me use my claws for everything from the second I'm born.
#2 I grow up a bit and KNOW in my heart, my front paws, just like a human's hands, are my main defense against everything.
#3 I also have an inate desire to scratch. You know, so I can stretch, relieve stress, develop muscle and keep my nails healthy by removing the old ones. (AN ACT I WAS PROGRAMMED TO DO)
#4 Then....I'm old enough to be fixed (whatever that means! ) and I wake up in pain cause my paws hurt. I can't clean them, I can touch them, I can't even MOVE them! A few days later, I can see them, but now I can't scratch, it hurts to walk, it hurts to use my litter box.
#5 A week or so pass and I finally realize my main source of protection is GONE!!! What do I do? I'm not safe...what if something tries to get me?
#6 Guess what I found???? My back paws not only have claws too, but my back legs are stronger and I have MORE power!! All I have to do is hold on to my attacker with my nice, sharp teeth and BAM!! I'm protected!!!
Hope I don't get sent to the pound or kitty heaven cause now, I'm a "biter"!
**That was taken from TheCatSite.com...it was two posts I wrote on there regarding declawing.
I honestly am not trying to offend you, I promise. I may be coming accross pretty harshly, but its because of what I've seen at work and in my life so far. You have no idea how many cats get euthanized because they bite after their "standard" declaw...or how many get taken to the shelter. Its sickening, unneccesary and WRONG!!! That's where I'm coming from...please understand that....
As a person who owned cats most of her life (until recently), I personally think that the naivety that this is not a cruel and painful procedure, is pitiful. We all know how bad this is. Why can’t it be outlawed here as in Europe?
Would you debark your dog? It’s the same reasoning, you know. It’s completely for YOUR benefit, not for the animal. It saddens me when people do something so painful to their family member just to protect the sofa. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Have you ever considered that perhaps Smitten's aggressive behavior is a negative side effect of being declawed? Well it is a very strong possibility. Not all kitties act the way you describe Smitten here:
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthre...&threadid=7707
Please reconsider declawing this innocent kitten. Claws are just part of being a kitty guardian!!!!
Everything you've posted is contradictory. You say you know declawing is bad. You say you are against declawing. You say know it's a painful procedure... but still you're gonna do it anyway.
Also, your main excuses to do it are:
1. My mommy won't let me have a cat unless I mutilate it, and I want one so bad I'll do anything to get one. - yea, that sounds like you're mature enough to own and care for an animal:(
and:
2. If I don't do it somebody else will anyway.
In life, we have two choices: Be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. I guess we can see which part you've chosen.
lol. I don't know why I both coming back to this thread lol.
Noahs:
Please re-read what I wrote and stop saying I think its ok like I think its a good thing. Should I put it this way. When you send your cat in to have its uterus, does it help this particular cat? No, it doesn't. But it helps its future cats..so why does that make it ok? It does NOTHING to your cat other then sever pain. If you want to keep telling yourself its for a reason then go ahead.
Also, my dad couldn't care less about this subject, he printed it off for me. Not to convince me to do it or not to. He only did it because I was upset because of you ignorant ppl.
Perhaps I could quote genesis "God said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.'"
I really stopped caring what you think of me. If you truely think I'm doing this to be mean then go ahead because again, your only looking at it one sidded. I however do not think I'm being unrealistic because the truth is I'm not the only one who does it. My dad tells me 'Is it really better for the cat to not have claws, or to be killed? Or maybe it will have a home where it has claws and is an outdoor cat and is happy, or maybe the other person will declaw it it anyway, or, maybe it will be left somewhere as a stray'
Noah: Yes, I have seen it, no I don't think its pretty, but I have also seen spaying which I feel is a lot more painful esp. when it doesn't help the cat..(I don't care if it helps by preventing future cats, it still doesn't help this cat. It just makes you ppl feel better by thinking of it that way)
Kater: That was like 2 yrs ago lol. She was just playing however, at the time I thought she was just being evil. I can tell in her behavior that it is different from if she sees a unfarmilliar cat lets say.
You ppl expect me to see things how you see it, that declawing its 100% wrong regardless. Yet, some of you have declawed your cats but now say its bad..even though you've had more then one. So how does that make you better then me?
I'm going to ask Karen to close this thread. I'm tired of this discusion getting no where. Maybe if you'd think of it from my side..even though you say you do, like " My mommy won't let me have a cat unless I mutilate it, and I want one so bad I'll do anything to get one" which is not how I think at all so grow up. You ppl say I'm immature, when your the ones ranting on like children. Theres no maturaty issue here. I'm more then mature enough to care for my animals. I have a job and pay for them myself, they get all the love and attention they need..again, I'm sorry that for your pets thats not the #1 issue to you. Poor things