Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
and I am really sad that 3000 innocent civilians were burned to death in
the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001. That those people left behind innocent children and families forever changed by some evil man's scheme.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
and I am really sad that 3000 innocent civilians were burned to death in
the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001. That those people left behind innocent children and families forever changed by some evil man's scheme.
Though many young people on September 11 may not have understood what happened, we certainly understand the impact of it as we aged. And many young people were very much affected by what happened on 9/11. I may have been 9 years old at the time, but I knew the pain of seeing my brother go to Iraq and Afghanistan several times. And because of that I learned of the events of 9/11 and what it meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
I don't mean to be defensive because I'm young. But most people my age certainly understand the events of 9/11 now, because we are no longer children.
Although I'm not out cheering and celebrating on the streets, I am certainly thankful that this man is dead. And I'm thankful for our wonderful troops who go out everyday and risk their lives, even when they didn't agree with why they were over there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dab_20
I certainly wasn't painting all young people with the same brush, but my point was that it's the young people who sometimes jump in with both feet before testing the water, and maybe don't really think first.
Yes - I'm glad he is dead too as I previously stated - but I wouldn't be out cheering and dancing in the streets celebrating. Sorry if I upset you or anyone else, as I too know how many have given their lives to protect this country from the evils of the likes of anyone like bin Laden. The young people of our country are spirited and demonstrative as they always have been (I was in my early 20's in the Viet Nam era protests so I remember quite well) - however - outwardly celebrating anyone's death for any reason is distasteful to me.
There once was a terrorist named Osama
Who ruined the world with his drama
It soon came to pass
Navy Seals kicked his (rear)
And that's made up for our trauma.
I am just amazed at the utterly ridiculous accusations and things said about President Obama. I am not a major fan of him either, but really some people just take things way too far. Not only people on the internet, but people at school and everywhere else as well. You know, I can understand not being a fan of him, and I can understand you don't support his views. I watched the 9 minute and 27 second speech and not once did he take all the credit for this. This isn't "just a re-election ploy", it's justice for thousands killed and that is not only the victims of 9/11. Call him a lame duck president, call him an idiot, call him arrogant, call him whatever you want but it's just downright disrespectful to say he is using this for his own personal gain. He has shown he is a very decent man. It's not only disrespectful to him, but it's disrespectful to soldiers(alive, dead, wounded, etc) and their families who mourn their loses and support them. Regardless of what you think of him as a president, don't treat him like he's a complete @$$hole who has no human decency.
I can't even tell you some of the idiotic, ignorant things I heard at school today. :mad: Marigold, I couldn't have said it better myself.
As for the death, well, I guess I'm indifferent. I feel like there will never be enough justice done for what this man did to millions of people. I guess it could be some closure, but really I'm just indifferent. I question whether it was worth everything we put into it. But I see many people on the news happy about the death, so that in turn makes me happy. I just hope it helps some people. I am glad we are rid of this evil, but there are still many more out there and hopefully one day we will overcome all of them. For now, at least this small battle is over.
As for being young on 9/11, I was in third grade. It effected my family very deeply. Especially my parents. My Dad was on a plane that day, and we didn't hear from him till that night. I'm sure my mom knew it wasn't his plane, but in the panic of it all, she later told me she just sat and cried and thought he was dead. They didn't say what flight it was, because they didn't know at first. He later said he passed the towers that morning and it was just and unbelievable feeling. My brother went to war in 2004. I will never forget the feelings I had. Everytime we heard of soldiers dying it just tore us all up. I was very young, but I knew the basic idea of war. He was in that hell for 14 months. He never talks about it, no one brings it up. I remember when my Dad asked him something about it, he started crying once. I don't know exactly what he asked him, but it isn't something he wanted to bring up. I still don't know everything about 9/11 or fully understand it, but I don't believe anyone truly does. That is a rare form of evil, and I don't think anyone fully can grasp it. I know the basics about it, but I do know how it effect my family and I know it effected more so much worse.
US Forces didn't kill Herr Schickelgruber, he was found dead in the bunker by the Russians.
US Forces shot down the plane carrying Yamamoto, but no one knew until well after the fact.
US Forces did not kill Saddam. He was hung by the Iraqi people following a trial in accordance with their law.
To broadcast that UBL is dead is fine.
To broadcast that UBL was killed by XXX unit of the US XXX forces? All that does is put targets on the backs of the people in those units. Bad operational security, particularly when those forces are still engaged in combat. The "Senior Defense Department Official" just committed a security breach, and he/she knows it.
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
~~Martin Luther King Jr.
Very well quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelteez2
I was in fourth grade when 9-11 occurred, and I most likely didn't understand the full impact of the situation until I grew older. Yes, my generation is probably the ones celebrating and not within full comprehension of the situation, but not all of us are as misunderstood about it now.
There were cheers of "USA!" outside my window into the wee hours of the morning last night. Gotta love the college attitude...
I don't think so. Looks like they know what they are doing and did it well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Why so negitive? Why not give credit to the President for a job well done with his advisers, something Bush could not get done. And he tried.
Why not give credit to our brave soldiers who risked their lives to get the job done? Our boys did a great job, a great job. How proud the families must be of these soldiers how proud and relieved that they are safe and made the world a safer place.
I was so proud of my son when he was in the Middle East twice protecting us. Proud and scared. When his ship bombed Saddam in the Indian Ocean and after 9/11 when his ship was the first one there to protrol and now it is his ship again which I believe carried the body.
I was on that ship and I saw the kids, yes kids, 18 and 19 year old girls and boys God they were so young to have to do this, so young to have so much responsiblity on their shoulders. Going out to sea for 6 months to protect and serve. Not knowing when they could contact their families, not knowing how long they really would be there since things had turned ugly. They were just so young.
But they all risked their lives for us. For you and me and everyone here to be safe.
Lets just be happy that our men are safe and got the job done. They can go home to their families. That is what counts.
SpecOps people know full well when they battle to get the jobs that they have that they will gain little if any notoriety for what they're doing. That's not why they do it.
By broadcasting who did it, if someone gets an Alpha roster for that unit, you've given the terrorists new targets, including the family members of the troops on the raid.
The whole announcement is bad news, because they have revealed methods and sources to the open media, and given the next leader a lesson in how not to get caught.
It should have been a simple statement that UBL has been killed, we have confirmation, and for operational reasons we will not be releasing specifics on how the mission was accomplished.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Well that is all good. However we already have Rush and how many others questioning if he is really dead or if this was a political ploy by the Obama team for future votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
American people have a right to know certain facts. The military have a right to keep certain facts hidden for all of our safety and the media is bound and determined to get the low down no matter what the cost. And then there are those who say that we never landed on the moon, Elvis is alive and well and living somewhere in the world still eating banana and peanut butter sandwiches and that Jimmy Morrison lives in Paris. And lets not forget those same people think that Rush is a genius.
Enough............... The monster is dead. We have wise people here that tell us not to rejoice lest we look as demented as those that rejoice over our deaths overseas.
I would like to just end with a prayer that our military children remain safe and come home sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
Wow.....judgmental much?
So, debunking the story for people who doubt it is worth the safety of those who conducted the raid and their families' safety, and burning the technical means used to gather the information is worth it?
It's amazing.
POLLUTION. Even the Navy is guilty. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces
Correction, something Bush could not have finished, as he could not have been re elected. This started 4 years ago, not last August.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2[/QUOTE
Haters will always be haters and there will always be those that never feel that anything was done to their specifications. I choose my own ability to respond. I respect the lives lost on 9/11. I respect my President for obtaining justice for that act. I respect the operatives that accomplished this mission and suspect they would like acknowledgedment for a job well done. There will always be those that don't believe what is sanely proven. Nothing can be said or done to change that. It is what it is and I chose to move on and leave them to wallow in the negative. Nothing I can say can help or change an opinion. Opinions are like as***les, eveyone has one. Some are full of sh**.
Just because you use the little ****** in your posts doesn't make it acceptable use of language.
Correction, something Bush could not have finished, as he could not have been re elected. This started 4 years ago, not last August.[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Can't all this be traced back to President Clinton when he was in office? He threatened to do something but didn't with al Qaeda? It all goes back to 1988 sometime when the group was coming into power. So this has been a long haul.
lets be clear on one thing......
NONE of the presidents DID this. NONE of the presidents found him or didn't find him.
The intel found him... the guys out there fighting caught him. The presidents just say yes or no... but they are not the ones that should get credit for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
Interesting opinion but not realistic. The Ops team would never have gone if the President (any President) had not made the decision to send them into harms way. So yeah, he or she, deserves some of the credit.
so sending them into harms way.. cutting off their pays.. "letting" them get him and take the part of the credit to himself.. sorry.. but thatīs just not fair to me.. to them..
these people, sent or not by him, are putting their own lives at stake only for him to take credit.. ok.. take credit.. but donīt treat them like that.. (shutting down their paychecks).. they deserve better..
and this I KNOW first hand from military wives who were struggling as they had no money due to this situation..
and I know this because in my own country men and women who risk their lives for justice are way underpaid..
Sorry to disappoint you, but it was the Republican majority in the House of Representatives that was threatening to shut down the Government - thus not pay our servicemen and women.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husky_mom
I know but still who approves.. and Iīm not dissapointed.. and as far as Iīve heard directly from military families.. the "threat" was to cut pay.. then they reinstated it but not all.. and had some sort of "catch".. Iīll have to retrieve the info.. but a few posted it.. and when asked that "but it was supposed to be off (the cut)" they responden.. "thatīs what got to the public.. but not to us.." and then posted the whole sitiuation.. (let me find it)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
I know lots of military folks and have not heard that Obama has cut their pay.
The President cannot cut their pay, he has no Constitutional authority to do so.
Military pay is a budget item, which is firmly in Congress's court. Besides, the whole budget issue was a tempest in a teacup, been there once the last time the children couldn't decide.
The idiocy about the budget is the fault of both parties, as Congress should have had a FY 2011 budget done before the last elections, but didn't want to accomplish their most basic function.
Don't confuse us with the facts! Obviously some folks want to blame Obama whether its justified or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
If this mission would have gone wrong. Our President would have never lived it down. Fox, Rush, Beck, Trump would all have had plenty to say and would have blamed him for the whole thing. I mean really who are we kidding? He is the leader, the President, the head honcho. The big gun, the man in charge.
Those right wing blow hards can hardly give him credit now.
When Carter back in 1980 sent helicopters to rescue to the US hostages from the US embassey in Iran they failed. (Below is the story.) It cost Jimmy Carter the election and he never recovered the respect of the American people.
As far as what we are being told. We are being told just enough to hopefully shut that fool Trump up.
The Iran hostage crisis was a diplomatic crisis between Iran and the United States. Fifty-two US citizens were held hostage for 444 days from November 4, 1979 to January 20, 1981, after a group of Islamic students and militants took over the Embassy of the United States in support of the Iranian Revolution.[1]
Sixty-six Americans were taken captive when Iranian militants seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran on November 4, 1979, including three who were at the Iranian Foreign Ministry. Six more Americans escaped and of the 66 who were taken hostage, 13 were released on November 19 and 20, 1979; one was released on July 11, 1980. The remaining 52 were released on January 20, 1981, at the very moment that Ronald Reagan had completed his inaugural address after having been sworn in as President of the United States to replace Jimmy Carter.[2]
The episode reached a climax when, after failed attempts to negotiate a release, the United States military attempted a rescue operation, Operation Eagle Claw, on April 24, 1980, which resulted in a failed mission, the destruction of two aircraft and the deaths of eight American servicemen and one Iranian civilian. It ended with the signing of the Algiers Accords in Algeria on January 19, 1981. The hostages were formally released into United States custody the following day, just minutes after the new American president Ronald Reagan was sworn in.
The crisis has been described as an entanglement of "vengeance and mutual incomprehension".[3] In Iran, despite freezing of all Iranian assets held in the United States (Executive Order 12170), the hostage taking was widely seen as a blow against the U.S, and its influence in Iran, its perceived attempts to undermine the Iranian Revolution, and its long-standing support of the recently overthrown government of the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. The Shah had been restored to power in a 1953 coup against a democratically-elected nationalist Iranian government that had been attempting to unconstitutionally remove the Shah. The coup was organized by the CIA and MI6 at the American embassy.[4] At the time of hostage-taking, the Shah had recently been allowed into the United States for medical treatment. In the United States, the hostage-taking was seen as an outrage violating a centuries-old principle of international law granting diplomats immunity from arrest and diplomatic compounds sovereignty in their embassies.[5]
The crisis has also been described as the "pivotal episode" in the history of Iran United States relations.[6] In the U.S., some political analysts believe the crisis was a major reason for U.S. President Jimmy Carter's defeat in the November 1980 presidential election.[7] In Iran, the crisis strengthened the prestige of the Ayatollah Khomeini and the political power of those who supported theocracy and opposed any normalization of relations with the West.[8] The crisis also marked the beginning of U.S. legal action, or economic sanctions against Iran, that further weakened economic ties between Iran and the United
There's no comparison between Desert One and the raid to kill UBL. Pres. Carter took heat for Desert one in large part because the mission was almost a planned failure from the start, but he had to look like he was doing something, after failing to do anything to get the situation under control.
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,Quote:
Originally Posted by Husky_mom
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
It's always been the same Isabel ;)
The final words ??? We will never know :p
http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...2004/Osama.jpg
"See? This is why I normally do not answer the door."
"Ha! They couldn't hit a camel at that dist..........."
"I should have married a bigger woman"
"You will never take me al........."
"Wife No.3, you feed the kids, I will feed the fish"
"This Neighborhood Watch program sucks"
"My fate is Sealed"
"What the....where did all these guys come from?"
"I need a room full of Seals like I need a hole in my head."
I agree. I'm not saying I'm a fan of Obama, but I don't not like him either. I'm just not educated enough about him to say whether or not I support him.Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
However, I think much of our country says they don't like Obama simply because everyone else says it, for everyone else's reasoning. People tend to forget we are not a dictatorship, the president doesn't control EVERYTHING. So he is not to blame for EVERYTHING. If you have a problem with the way our government is run, maybe you should look at the other majority that runs our country- congress.
Seriously, everyone is going to hate whatever president we have until things get better. If you don't like him for a solidified reason, then that is fine. But don't go and say you don't like him simply because that's what everyone else does.
(and this isn't to anyone specific on PT, I'm just tired of hearing it at school and no one can give me real facts for why they don't like the president)
It has been decided not to release the pictures of Osama's body.
I am so glad. I think this is a wise decision. As Obama said, "no good
would come of it".
I didn't think for a minute, that he would. What would be the purpose?? The people that want to see them as proof, would still say that they aren't authentic. Kind of like all of those that think that 9/11 was a conspiracy and in spite of pictures, try to prove that the facts are fictitious.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
How about just excepting the true facts and giving our President and his team, including our brave soldiers credit for a job well done?
Bush had his chance and he didn't get him.
How about being fair? How about turning off Fox news long enough to get the facts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Methinks thou needs to be a touch more careful with your overly broad brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
There are many news sources bookmarked on this computer, none of them are Fox news.
The sailors who completed the mission deserve their secrecy (the spec ops community lives and DIES by secrecy), and that has unfortunately been blown by the bungling of the executive branch.
The intel weenies who worked on the technical means of intelligence deserve credit, and should be able to use their means again, but that means has now been blown, as it has been announced to the world how the mission was accomplished. Al Quaeda won't make those same mistakes again, so they have to develop new means to track intel.
There was no need to announce what other intelligence was gathered at the site.
As to the comment about the former President, I don't recall saying anything about him or his administration. Are you still that hung up on the former President that you think every criticism of President Obama is a defense of President Bush?
Nah uh. Bush had nothing to do with "not getting him". Bush was constantly on the back of the CIA to bring home the bacon, right up until his term finished. The CIA never came good at that time. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
SPEED to hell, you piece of garbage!!!! (I'd say God Speed but that would be disrespectful to our Lord)
Do I think they should post pictures of his dead, mutilated body????Hell yeah!!! We need closure. Now let's bring out men and women home safely.
Don't be like that Donna, it's not nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosmom
He really did value life you know. As evidenced by the fact that he tried to hide behind one of his wives. ;)
Now let's be fair - something that lowlife knew nothing about tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
I heard it reported that it was his wife that took it upon herself to step in front of him to try to shield him. Who really knows tho, besides the ones that were in that room......:(
OBL was on the Jerry Springer show earlier this year when on of his wives accused him of cheating. He gave the DNA sample then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
----------------------------------
While not a huge fan of politics? I find the 'blame game' as to who should get credit/no credit for OBL's demise to be rather entertaining. Apparently the pundits have assured that this is a huge 'win' for BO and makes him a shoo in for the presidency in '12.
Hog poop.
While I do care about that son of a gun (OBL) getting his proper due? what about the jobless rate in the country? Government spending? Budget woes and all the OTHER problems here in the country? I think that after the Ding Dong Osama's Dead high wears off, the political landscape and the general unease of the population regarding the WHOLE political/economic will go back to being what it was before May 1.