Oh, I was under the impression that it was a poster from Alaska who was the nit picker in these parts :confused:Quote:
Context matters Grace. You KNOW what I am talking about. Please don't go ES on me.
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Oh, I was under the impression that it was a poster from Alaska who was the nit picker in these parts :confused:Quote:
Context matters Grace. You KNOW what I am talking about. Please don't go ES on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Obama has already resigned his seat in the Senate. He is President elect,
but not President yet.
Technically, President-elect Obama is in political "no man's land". He's not a Senator anymore, and he is not the President, either. As is proper, IMO, he is focusing on what he needs in place to take his seat as President in January. What his "camp" and he say may or may not jibe, based on the date at hand at any given time. The motivation of the different stories might be lies, might be carelessness, might be ignorance. As someone once said (I forget the origin, but a character on Bablyon 5 used this quote):"Truth is a three-edged sword; yours, mine, and the real truth."
This Governor is a real piece of work. His transgressions, and investigations by the FBI, go back years - long before Obama decided to run for President. I read that his father in law has barely spoken to him since 2005. Do you suppose it was Richard Mell, the f-i-l, who dropped a dime on him?
Quote:
In 2005, Blagojevich's father-in-law, Chicago Alderman Richard Mell, accused the governor's adviser and fundraiser, Christopher Kelly, of trading state jobs and appointments for campaign contributions. That accusation, which Mell later recanted, launched several investigations.
_ Blagojevich's then-chief of staff personally approved people hired for such routine jobs as secretary, auto mechanic and film office intern, even though those jobs are supposed to be sheltered from political influence.
_ Blagojevich's own inspector general found that the governor's patronage chief and a state agency had engaged in a "concerted effort" to subvert hiring laws. At another agency, people were hired before it was determined what jobs they would fill.
_ The Blagojevich administration gave a $522,000 contract to a campaign contributor to clean, among other things, Transportation Department road-salt storage barns. The agency's finance director at the time was the brother-in-law of the company's owner.
_ In 2006, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald asked the state attorney general to back off her investigation and let his office pursue "very serious allegations of endemic hiring fraud" in the Blagojevich administration.
_ Later that year, it was disclosed that Blagojevich's former campaign treasurer gave a $1,500 check to one of the governor's daughters a month before his wife started a $45,000 state job.
Thank you, I did not know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
So wanting to keep things in context, and posting facts, and/or sources in a serious discussion is nit picking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
ETA: When you are a public elected official, your associates and aquiantenceships are going to be scrutinized or blown off. Those who lean towards liberal thinking are going to blow off the bad associations tagged to the elected official and those who are more conservative are going to rejoice and scrutinize to the same extreme Rush Limbaugh does. I am trying to learn to balance my own biases.
Why did Gov Palin not call for Stevens resignation when he was indicted -- as citizen if nothing else? Why did she wait to call for his resignation until after he was convicted? Does that mean she is guilty of corruption too?Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Gov Blagojevich is a crook and I am glad to see him get his.
I think the hyenas trying to paint others as corrupt because they hail from the same state or belong to the same party or shook hands are exhibiting rather desparate and illogical behavior.
Gov Palin asked Stevens to step down before the trial even started, not after the conviction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
I think its a bit more then being from the same state in Blago's case.
Sorry, but one govenor in jail is a damned shame, but two governors in a row indicates that there's more than just the governor who's corrupt.
Add in Congressman Rostenkowski, and there's more than just an out of control governor in play here.
It's an FN shame when you get to know who the LT. Gov, Attn. Gen., Senators and Congress folks are in one state because they cannot behave themselves.
I thought that when elephants in Lost Angeles were in trouble was a sign of the Apocalypse.....Hyenas?:(:rolleyes::eek:
You might be interested in this YouTube from July 2008. Palin expressing her admiration for Stevens? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YptTFDsktVQQuote:
Originally Posted by blue
Or her comment on November 8 -- after his conviction that she would not tell him to step down because she "is not a dictator."?
Looks like you are right...it is more than just being from the same state! Some politicians go so far as to express admiration for indicted felons of the political persuasion!
Don't forget Paul Powell...my personal favorite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
And...Illinois had two governors in a row who were NOT convicted of anything.:D
Of course...at the end of the day...what does the action of one person have to do with the qualifications of another person?
That is what you guys continue to avoid explaining....
Two words.
FERRIS BUELLER
Ive seen the video, Uncle Ted brought allot to the state over the years. Stevens wasnt convicted, he hadnt even gone to trial, when Palin was part of that joint statement expressing her admiration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
She "asked" him to step down before the trial, she couldnt order/tell him to do anything.
You are stretching your "logical" conclusions now.
Because of Rep. Don Young's close association with Stevens Ild like to see him step down, I was sorry to see he was reelected. Young has recently stepped down from key comittees to try and clear his name from the fog of corruption implications, thats not good enough for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
The actions of Stevens and his close relationship with Rep. Young are the same to me as the actions of those who Obama associated with, Obama was helped by and has helped, and who Obama closely worked with over the years.
A few of Young and Stevens associates are now in jail, a number of Obama's associates are in jail and indicted. Ild be a hypocrite to think Stevens deserves what he got and that Young deserves the same scrutiny, and think President Elect Barry should get a pass on his associations with criminals and terrorists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey the elder
And the three questions that follow are
What is my co-pay?
HOW MANY STITCHES? and
How many days off do I get?:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Yawn. Does Gov Palin get a pass on her association with criminals?
She has disassociated herself from senator Stevens, so what criminals is she still associated with? She still has to deal with state business with Rep. Young and he hasnt been charged with anything yet, so Im forced to give a pass there even though I dont like it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
So yawn, what criminals is Gov Palin associating with?
Disassociating yourself...AFTER the conviction...I would call that politics as usual!Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
I am sure she is terribly grateful for the pass you are giving her.
She asked him to step down, give up his seat, before the trial. How is that politics as usual? [EDIT]To be clear I mean Senator Stevens! As I was referring to Don Young as well.[/EDIT]Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
ETA: With what Young has been dealing with Ild love to see Palin ask him to step aside.
[EDIT]Clif notes, Ild hate to give ES something to nit pick.[/EDIT]
Gov Palin asked Senator Stevens to step down from his seat as senator before his trial started.
Rep. Young is still being investigated for corruption, and IMO Gov Palin needs to ask for his resignation, or at least to step aside.
Well ... the Illinois legislature decided to move forward with the impeachment process. They could decide to have a special election to replace Obama but that could take 4 to 6 months before it is all organized and put in place, so they might not go that route. I think they're hoping Blagojevich will resign, then Lt Gov. Quinn will take over and he'll get to make the selection. That way we would have a second Senator more quickly than a special election and the Democrats would be happy because they wouldn't lose their seat. I heard on the news that the U.S. Senate can also refuse to accept as a Senator someone Blagojevich selects.
Ryan, Rosty and now Blagojevich. Such integrity we have in Illinois politics!
I came across this commentary by a Political Science Prof. in Illinois. His
opinion of how this whole mess with Blogo was possible. I don't know if
any of this is true or false. I don't really know much about Illinois's political
culture, but it is interesting.
By Kent Redfield
Special to CNN
Editor's Note: Kent Redfield is director of the Sunshine Project, a research project focused on the role of money in Illinois politics and on political ethics in the state. He is a professor emeritus of political studies at the University of Illinois -- Springfield. Before joining the faculty, he worked for four years as a member of the research/appropriations staff for the then-speaker of the Illinois General Assembly, who was a Democrat.
Kent Redfield says new laws and better choices by Illinois voters could end the state's tradition of corruption.
SPRINGFIELD, Illinois (CNN) -- In the glow of his election victory in fall 2002, Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich stood on the stage at the victory celebration held in the steel mill where his father had worked and promised "reform and renewal," and an "end to business as usual."
He told a public weary of the scandal surrounding former Gov. George Ryan that they had voted for change and that he intended to bring that change.
Instead, Blagojevich is likely to go down in history as a ringing example of the corrupting influence of money in politics and the failure of Illinois voters to demand change.
Three years earlier he had been an obscure Chicago congressman concerned about losing his seat through redistricting. He formed a state political committee and began raising money. Much of his early money came from businesses in his old congressional district, particularly in the Chicago ward controlled by his father-in-law, Alderman Richard Mell.
Because of his huge war chest, Blagojevich was the only candidate in the Democratic primary who campaigned statewide. After his primary victory, he continued to raise money at a staggering rate, $26 million in all. In the general election, Blagojevich constantly hammered on the need to end Republican corruption and restore the state's honor.
From the beginning of his first term, it appeared that Blagojevich wanted to be more than just the governor of Illinois. He hired a former Bill Clinton adviser to write his inaugural address and shape his public message. By promising not to raise taxes and to provide universal access to health care, he hoped to catch the eye of those beyond Illinois as a different kind of Democrat.
His dream was to be on a stage in November 2008, playing the role that turned out to be that of Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
It wound up that he did go national in 2008, but not in the way he had hoped.
Blagojevich's rhetoric and his leadership style caused problems in the state Capitol in Springfield immediately. He always presented conflicts over policy as morality plays. No matter what the issue, it was always "Sir Rodney the Good" vs. the forces of evil.
He loved to pull political surprises and demonstrated disdain for legislators. After winning a second term, he proposed a massive gross receipts tax on businesses as a way of dealing with the overwhelming deficit in the state budget without raising taxes on "the working people."
The idea had never been mentioned in the campaign or discussed with the legislative leaders before the speech. Ultimately, the proposal went nowhere.
In 2005, federal subpoenas began arriving at state agencies and the governor's office, looking into hiring practices and state contracts. Over the past three years, the governor has spent more than $2 million from his campaign fund on legal fees.
What saved Blagojevich politically in 2006 was his extraordinary ability to raise money. He raised $29 million, while his Republican opponent, State Treasurer Judy Baar Topinka, raised less than $11 million. Blagojevich won a bare majority of the vote in a three-way race.
By spring 2008, most Illinois citizens had concluded the governor was doing a terrible job. His approval rating was at 12 percent.
Still, most people assumed we were stuck with him for two more years. The tapes described in the federal criminal complaint last week confirmed what many in Illinois had suspected for a long time. The real Rod Blagojevich has been running the state like a Chicago ward boss, according to the complaint.
In the end, he brought himself down by ignoring the reality of a federal investigation aimed directly at him. If he is convicted of a crime, we will be rid of him not because we exercised collective wisdom at the ballot box, but because he turned out to be an even more incompetent crook than he was a governor.
Gov. Blagojevich is the fifth of the last eight elected Illinois governors to be charged with a felony. If Blagojevich is convicted, we will have the unique distinction of having two former governors in jail at the same time. Why is this happening again? iReport.com: Do you trust your elected leaders?
Illinois has extremely weak campaign finance and ethics laws, with no limits on the amount of campaign contributions. The law that takes effect in January prohibiting contributions by people who already hold large ($50,000 or more) state contracts to the public officials who are responsible for awarding such contracts is a small first step.
But greater changes are needed. Limiting all contributions to $1,000 would make "pay to play" in the granting of state contracts or the selling of a U.S. Senate seat much less profitable or tempting.
Making corruption more difficult only takes you so far. People are more likely to obey the law if they believe it is wrong to break the law -- in addition to the chance they might get caught. We need to change the political culture in Illinois -- the attitudes and beliefs we share about the nature of politics. Too many Illinois citizens and politicians believe that politics is solely about power, winning and personal gain.
The charges filed against the governor only reinforce the idea that politics is and always will be a dirty business. But culture does change. The prominent role that racism has played in our national culture is slowly and begrudgingly giving way to new attitudes and beliefs and a new reality. Illinois' culture of political corruption does not have to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Two years ago, most Illinois citizens suspected what they now know about Rod Blagojevich. But on Election Day, fewer than 37 percent of the eligible voters in Illinois went to the polls and a majority of them elected him to another four-year term. In order to fix Illinois politics, we need to start by taking a long look at ourselves in the mirror.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Kent Redfield.
My home state is well practiced in the ways of corruption, as evidenced in this article.
I've also read this week that...per capita...Louisiana is even more corrupt with more convictions than Illinois. Done with even more hubris.
Sounds like Rhode Island can give them a run for the money (pun intended...)
Poor Illinois....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Wah,
My state is more corrupt than anyone else's. All politicians are morons and the only time we show our crappy, underbelly is when we get a clip on CNN....
Boo Effing Hoo!
The current govenor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal, is being floated as a possible Republican candidate for president.
It will be interesting to see if the same folk who want to tar Obama with the corruption of Illinois politics will feel the same way about Jindal.
Or if it will be another case of...situational ethics!
GOv. Jindal intrigues me, BUT....................
given the poitical history of the state (recent, at that) I'd be "concerned" with ethical questions.
Same with anyone out of Providence (I seriously doubt Buddy Cianci is the only pol in Providence with Mob ties) or parts of Boston. (Sen. Wilkerson, please, it's not racism YOU WERE CAUGHT STUFFING AN EVELOPE FULL OF BRIBE MONEY INTO YOUR BRA!!!)
While I doubt anyone is truly clean and pure as the wind driven snow, it amazes me the things politicians are given a pass on by the press and the public at large.
As an aside....
TO the media and general public....
Can we at least wait until 2010 and a half or so BEFORE WE START THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?????????????:mad::p:p
According to the article posted you will also need to worry about politicians from New York, Texas, Florida (especially Florida!), New Mexico, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and Delaware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
As for waiting until 2010...you might want to tell more than just the media and the general public...Bobby was in Iowa making a speech recently.:D:D
Don't you think you might want to tell the Wannabes as well?
Ah yes, Buddy Cianci. I wasn't living in Rhode Island while he was the Mayor. Anyone else read the book about him - Prince of Providence? Now he's out of prison, back in Providence, holding court once again. He even has a radio show on WPRO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Life goes on . . . . .
Yeah, I noticed that.
It's called an election CYCLE because there are supposed to be lulls between bouts of chaos.
Blago held a news conference yesterday at his Chicago office and stated he has done nothing wrong. The state House has started impeachment hearings. The Lt. Gov. has quietly started assembling a transition team. The only one who is keeping mum about it is Da Mayor, who only says Blago should do what's best for his family and the people of Illinois.Quote:
Originally Posted by cassiesmom
And this from WLS News:
"Leave it to Chicago radio to come up with unique promotional events, this time at the expense of the state's troubled governor. Some passersby on Michigan Avenue braved the cold temperatures and had some fun throwing shoes at a life-size cut-out of Gov. Rod Blagojevich. The event was held just outside WGN Radio's Tribune Tower Showcase studio. The promotion was dubbed "Pay to Play & Throw a Shoe at Blagojevich." Participants had to make a donation to take part. All proceeds are being donated to the Neediest Kids Fund." Wish I'd been there!
Quote: "And this from WLS News:
"Leave it to Chicago radio to come up with unique promotional events, this time at the expense of the state's troubled governor. Some passersby on Michigan Avenue braved the cold temperatures and had some fun throwing shoes at a life-size cut-out of Gov. Rod Blagojevich. The event was held just outside WGN Radio's Tribune Tower Showcase studio. The promotion was dubbed "Pay to Play & Throw a Shoe at Blagojevich." Participants had to make a donation to take part. All proceeds are being donated to the Neediest Kids Fund." Wish I'd been there! "
I'll bet they get lots of takers.:) It's for a great cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
I'm always amazed & constantly concerned with the "ethics" displayed
by GW Bush & his buddies.:mad: Read this article on the recent bank bailout
and how this country got royally screwed yet again.:mad:
Click on Washingto Post for the article.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot...s-on-bank.html
The bank bailout was approved by Congress, who failed to appoint an oversight agency as rapidly as they passed the bill to hand out the money.
It's a cluster...........but to blame it solely on the executive is inaccurate. (There isn't much of Pres. Bush's domestic agenda I agree with, frankly it's time for a little chlorine in the political gene pool on all sides)
Hmmm,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
I wonder if she went from an A cup to a C Note?:D
-------
Show me an ethical politician and I'll counter with an wimpy one term flash in the pan.
Everyone knows the worst politicians end up at the top of the totem pole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Did you actually read the article? provisions were included in the bill but
the last minute change by the White House, effectively negated the provisions made to moniter how it was spent. We could blame the Treasury
Dept., but the change was made as requested from Bush.
Executive Pay Limits May Prove Toothless
Loophole in Bailout Provision Leaves Enforcement in Doubt
By Amit R. Paley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 15, 2008; Page A01
Congress wanted to guarantee that the $700 billion financial bailout would limit the eye-popping pay of Wall Street executives, so lawmakers included a mechanism for reviewing executive compensation and penalizing firms that break the rules.
But at the last minute, the Bush administration insisted on a one-sentence change to the provision, congressional aides said. The change stipulated that the penalty would apply only to firms that received bailout funds by selling troubled assets to the government in an auction, which was the way the Treasury Department had said it planned to use the money.
Now, however, the small change looks more like a giant loophole, according to lawmakers and legal experts. In a reversal, the Bush administration has not used auctions for any of the $335 billion committed so far from the rescue package, nor does it plan to use them in the future. Lawmakers and legal experts say the change has effectively repealed the only enforcement mechanism in the law dealing with lavish pay for top executives.
Congress coud have refused the change, leaving the admnistration to try again.
The Executive CANNOT force Congress to write legislation.
Sounds like some people on the hill need to grow a spine. If the really wanted o get something done with oversight they should have found a compromise, built a veto-proof majority, and rammed the bill down the President's throat.
Trust me, Richard, if you lived here, you'd have seen enough coverage repeated ad nauseum of Ms. Wilkerson to know it has been a long time since she was an A-cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by RICHARD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Like that would ever be a possibility with a majority of Republicans in
the current Senate. The fact that this is happining right in the middle of
Holiday leave time for Congress is not lost on anybody.:rolleyes:
If GWB were any kind of a real leader, he would have lead the way in
getting the economy back on track with sensible legislation instead of
sniping from the sidelines. Bush can't wait to kick this problem down the
road & let others clean things up.