Sep. 11th Picture!

... of the terrorist acts of Sept 11 2001, let's keep in mind what the professed motive was: Religious beliefs.

The best Christmas card I ever got was from a friend who showed Jesus at a Birthday party table, with cake and balloons, and seated around the table were Mohammed, Buddha, Lao Tsu, Shiva, Baha'uallah and other representatives of different faiths. They were depicted as all singing Happy Birthday to Him, in a very beautiful, serious artistic rendition. She happened to be Baha'i.

What greater act of evil (or act of Satan, if you wish) than to acheive the ultimate goal of destruction of those beings called human by inspiring their vanity through "religion". Boy, do we ever have a tendency to forget "God is Love".

I love my cat; she knows God personally, and she doesn't talk about it. But then, feline beings are far more aware than we are, canine beings, too!

Thanks, Andie - and being a typical human, I had to say more ;)

Andie, I can (semi-)relate to your disagreements with "Church" itself; I do attend although I admit it is not regularly. I think numerous churches are there for the "pagentry."

I am Christian and it works for me. I realize and respect, that there are many other religions (or lack thereof) that work for other people. I'll readily & openly talk about different religions (or lack thereof) with others, though it is a sticky subject; tempers can flare! Regardless of how I feel, I recognize that not everyone is Christian & not everyone wants to be. If asked, I'll account for my personal experiences of how God has revealed himself to me. Maybe even ask if they'd like to know more, etc. I think a "gentle nudge" is more effective than an all out "attack."

I do have friends of different religions (a steadfast Wiccan, being one of them). I do find all religions/pracitices interesting (particularly Shamanism) and like to know the histories, the foundational beliefs, etc. I have taken a "Bible" course (dealing with new and old testament) in college; the professor was agnostic or athiest (I could never tell--he seemed to vary between the two). Though I disagree with much of what he taught us, it was great class and I learned much from it.

I don't want to be part of this debate as it really doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything except angering members of both "sides." However, I do applaud both "sides" in sticking up for themselves (regardless of whether or not the points are valid to you); defending yourself is sometimes really hard to do.

All this having been said, let's remember what brought us all together in the first place....our pets and the love we have for them....

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Originally posted by kohala
[BThe best Christmas card I ever got was from a friend who showed Jesus at a Birthday party table, with cake and balloons, and seated around the table were Mohammed, Buddha, Lao Tsu, Shiva, Baha'uallah and other representatives of different faiths. They were depicted as all singing Happy Birthday to Him, in a very beautiful, serious artistic rendition.[/B]

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Sounds like a REALLY neat card! Do you still have it? I'd like to see the pic!

I just got back from vacation so I just found this topic. I want to say first that I try to be open minded about everything, I respect everyone's decisions whether I agree with them or not, and a lot of what has been said in this topic is very interesting. I am a Christian, and to be honest, a lot of times I find Christians who witness to people who don't want to be witnessed to offensive. If someone comes up to a person and starts witnessing, and that person says, "No thanks, I don't believe and I don't want to hear that message" or whatever, I believe the other person should back off. It's a Christans job to spread the message. Once it's been said, it's not a Christians job to keep hounding a person. All anyone can do is say it, and then it's the other person's choice to believe it or not. I think it's rude when ANYONE of ANY religion tries to shove a beilef down one's throat. I include atheists. I have my beliefs and they are just that.. my beliefs. I agree with Ann and Niina when they say they should be respected when they ask that no one either pray for them or make them believe something they don't want to. That is their choice, just like being a part of any religion is a choice. I hope that we can keep this thread alive and have calm, respectful discussion because I think it's important that everyone has a chance to say what they believe. I hope I haven't offended anyone at all.. and if I have I'm sorry.

Have a great day to all! :D

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a lot of times I find Christians who witness to people who don't want to be witnessed to offensive.

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Nomilynn...
I like what you said...
I have pm'ed a few people to apologize if I have offended them in any way... I just have strong beliefs and like a good debate... although... this topic is really not a good one to debate seeing how it is easy to forget that I am in a forum full of people from all over the world.. so I just wanted to make my apology public... I by no means ment to offend anyone or make them feel attacked.:)

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Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
Well, I for one will not post in PetTalk anymore if I have to listen to these people with their nasty dispositions, all they are looking for are arguments, not discussions, I will post in Dog of the Day, Pet of the Day and Cat of the Day. I can't say I care to associate with people like this, I don't think religion has anything to do with it, I don't care for their language either, I thought we were above this kind of thing, I guess not.
Jackie

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I only stated my opinion as many others have. If that will put you off from posting in Pet Talk, too bad then. Just as other people have their right to express their opinion that they believe in god, us non-believers have the same right too. Not everyone in this world believes in god and it has to be accepted. I personally don't have problems with those who do believe, just as long as they leave others alone who don't.

Well, I'm really glad to see this thread still open and it's really nice to see some people here who actually agree with some of the things I've said and respects everyone's views.

jackiesdaisy1935:

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I fail to see how anyone has used nasty words or whatever. And I think this is developing to be a nice discussion, I'm sorry you can't take hearing both sides.

zippy-kat:
I'd be interested in hearing your personal experiences.

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Originally posted by SugarGirl
What if it was my sacred mission to spread the word that God didn't exist? What if I took every chance to make sure that everyone knew believing in God was like believing in the Tooth Fairy? Would that offend you? But, hey, I'm just doing it because I love you and don't want you to waste your life.

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Well said!

popcornbird:

Please read the above quote and STOP praying for me. I'm serious. And just because I didn't bother reading through the whole site that you posted a link to does not mean I am close-minded. I simply just didn't have the time to read it, and besides I have read the same arguments hundreds of times before and I find them to be very weak. Also, why are you ignoring my comment about your "your animals love God" statement?

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Originally posted by popcornbird
God created you, and me, and everything in the heavens and the earth. To say such a thing about God, Who created you, gave you health, filled your life with bounties, gave you your family, pets, and all, is worse that insulting your parents, who have raised you with love and spent all these many years caring for you; this is just an example. God is the most compassionate and most merciful, but God rewards people for their good deeds, and punishes them for their wrong-doings.

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Since I don't belive in God, why would it still be a bad thing to say something like that? And for a second, let's say your God does exist, he is not compassionate or merciful AT ALL. Let's take the whole pharao in Egypt thing for example. He kills the pharaos son because the pharao refuses to let the slaves go free, right? Now, what did the son have to do with that? If your God wanted to punish someone, shouldn't he have punished the pharao himself, who refused to let go of the slaves? But no, instead he murders an innocent child. Way to go there mr loving god. And then he forces one of the guys in the bible (can't remember his name right now) to sacrifice his son and stops him right before he actually kills him with his only reason being "oh, I just wanted to test you". That's really compassionate isn't it? And what about all the animal sacrifices? I'm sure the sheep who's blood were put on doors were all happy with it, because they belive in God after all, right popcornbird?

Aside from all the scientific facts and all the errors and contradictions in the bible I have several more personal reasons why I don't belive in a god. I have to bike off to school now so I cannot start talking more about that, but I want you all to think about one thing:

God must love wars.

Think about it... When two countries are fighting, let's take the USA and Pakistan for example now. The people in USA says "God bless America! We will prevail for he is on the good people's side; ours!". The people in Pakistan goes "Praise Allah! He will help us smithe those terrible greedy Americans!". Every side of a war says things like that and belive "God" is on their side. All wars are based on religion. It's the truth. Think about the crusades... Or the witch burning... Or anything! It's all the same...

Well... I gotta run now so bye for now!

My mistake, I meant to say Afghanistan and not Pakistan. However, you can drop your little sarcastic smileys and stop trying to make me out to be a moron all the time, because it's not working. It was just an example anyways, and goes for EVERY country in the world who has ever been in a war.

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Originally posted by zippy-kat


Sounds like a REALLY neat card! Do you still have it? I'd like to see the pic!

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No, I wish I did!

that while I'm probably just opening another can of worms, here...9/11 didn't happen just for religious reasons. The religious often gets mixed with the political and vice versa. This was in response to Kohala's entry.

As for Wendy and JackieDaisy, I believe that I stated my opinions in a very open minded and tolerant way. It seems that the simple fact that I am not a "believer" makes me rude. And I think that speaks more of you and your views than mine.

I've also noticed how God and country have been mixed together. I don't think God has anything to do with patriotism. I am an American and an agnostic, and not believing in God does not make me unpatriotic. I might also add that it has nothing to do with blindly accepting everything the government does and says. To me, the highest call of patriotism lies in participation and criticism. Without it, we will never progress.

Ann, it is very hard to be an agnostic/atheist in this world. Especially in America. People will constantly challenge your beliefs and try to change you. When I was younger I would get very angry about this, but I've mellowed and just accepted it. But don't lose that fire, entirely, but you will get more comfortable in your beliefs as you get older. :)

I wasn't going to get involved in this but now feel I must. There have been about three disruptive threads since I have been at Pet Talk (2 yrs.) They didn't start out that way but some members got rude, the last being a 19 year old boy who was asked to leave. In my humble opinion, this thread is heading very much in that direction and should be closed. It is not pet-related. If members want to PM each other that's fine, but let's stop the public bickering.

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Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
I do not believe in the big band theory and think evolution is ...

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I have to agree with you there, but still think Count Basie and Duke Ellington are great. (SORRY - NO OFFENCE MEANT!) ;)

Personally, I feel that religious beliefs are usually a way of trying to get to grips with our own insecurity. My own solution to this incomprehensible world is to hide myself behind a thick veil of humour, preferably black. :D
Now I'm not sure whether I dare post the Fister Christmas Card this year, I wouldn't want to offend anyone. But lets wait and see.
Tolerance, compassion and understanding, that's what we need a lot more of!!

With respect

John

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Originally posted by Randi

My own solution to this incomprehensible world is to hide myself behind a thick veil of humor, preferably black. :D
Now I'm not sure whether I dare post the Fister Christmas Card this year, I wouldn't want to offend anyone. But lets wait and see.
John

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Ditto John with that black humour! And do post that x-mas card, I'm sure it's fabulous! :D

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Originally posted by Pam
In my humble opinion, this thread is heading very much in that direction and should be closed. It is not pet-related. If members want to PM each other that's fine, but let's stop the public bickering.

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Well I actually think this theard is quite good. I don't think that anyone on here is trying to personally attack one another. I just feel that the way we feel sometimes makes it seem like someone is attacking us. I think this is a theraputic thread for some. But hey what do I know?

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Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
I do not believe in the big band theory and think evolution is ...
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I have to agree with you there, but still think Count Basie and Duke Ellington are great. (SORRY - NO OFFENCE MEANT!)

Thanks for the laugh! I did not realize I had written band instead of Bang! I enjoyed your humor and I personally am a fan of Bennie Goodman!! :D

Glad to hear that you like Benny Goodman Dixie, he is actually my favourite too. I especially love all the sextet stuff with Charlie Christian. (Since this is about physics, I was probably subconsciously thinking of "The Atomic Mr Basie!)
We also have Ben Webster (not to mention Søren Kierkegaard and Hans Christian Andersen) buried just a couple of hundred yards from us in our local cemetry.

John

My best friend is an anthiest and I am a Christian. We agree that we do not agree on religion. We seldom discuss our views about this, since we are both dead set in our ways....and we never try to convert each other. I accept her choice and decisions and she accepts mine. I believe it is called tolerance, yes?

I think this topic is a good one, just too bad that so many are letting it get out of hand and saying rather rude things to each other.

Have fun kids! :)

QUOTE FROM ANN Maybe Niina is right... This is probably just a waste of time and will do nothing but make everyone think I'm ********. Oh well... A few good men will do nothing when evil triumphs, right? LOL

Ann if the shoe fits............I was not going to post however I resent the posts you write, it is always negative about our country. I could care less whether you believe in God or not, not my problem. It is in vogue right now to bash America, no matter that we send aid and money to many, many needy countries.
Has anyone on here used Sweden as an example? please refrain in your religious discussions from bashing the USA, I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, I don't know of anyone on this site who uses anyone else's country as a bad example and I resent the fact that you use ours.
As far as religion I don't care what anyone believes and I don't shove religion down anyone's throat, I don't even usually talk about it. It is a personal thing whether you believe or not, that is a right we have here in the United States, freedom of religion.
Ann you were on here before and I believe either left or were banned because of your behaviour. I thought you had changed and I was wrong.
Soledad, I don't even know you, I don't recall calling you rude, if you felt that I did I am sorry, I respect everyone having an opinion, whether it agrees with mine or not, but sometimes it's in the way that it is presented, in the matter of religion I don't care what people believe, that's their business, I do resent the bashing of our country by a few and I don't recall any Americans on here bashing other countries. I would appreciate the topic sticking to religion if that's what people want to discuss and leave the United States out of it.
Jackie

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Originally posted by Pam
I wasn't going to get involved in this but now feel I must. There have been about three disruptive threads since I have been at Pet Talk (2 yrs.) They didn't start out that way but some members got rude, the last being a 19 year old boy who was asked to leave. In my humble opinion, this thread is heading very much in that direction and should be closed. It is not pet-related. If members want to PM each other that's fine, but let's stop the public bickering.

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I don't get why this thread should be closed just because you find it to be "disruptive". If the topic of this thread bothers you, then simply don't read it anyome. I don't see why everyone who enjoys a deeper discussion should have that taken away just cause a few can't take to hear it. One of your reasons why this should be closed is cause it's not pet-related, but the sad truth is that if I had not spoken up with my original comment and this would just have kept on being a "God bless the USA" thread then you would NOT have complained or asked for the thread to be closed.That is UNFAIR and is the ONLY reason I started this argument in the first place. Why can't you see that? And yeah, Andie is partly right. It does help me get some steam out about this all.

Soledad, it seems that Bush thinks that patriotism and being a Christian is the same thing though. I can't find the exact quote right now, but it goes something like this "Real patriots worship the almighty God. If they don't belive in God they should not live in this country. I hope the military will really re-think their decision". He said that when the military said they would allow Wiccan rituals. Like I said, that ISN'T the exact quote, so don't nitpick me. And I know you're right about my temper, I know I should try to be calmer about it... Sorry! Kudos to you and the other non-belivers here who manage their calm, I'm really sorry if I'm ruining it for you all :(

As for the private reasons I mentioned before... Aside from bible contradictions and scientific facts that go against the bible and the whole thing with the pharao and so on there's personal reasons too... If your loving and compassionate God existed he would not have allowed the following:

My grandpa on my mom's side dying right before I was born, he never got to see me and I never got to meet him.

My grandma on my mom's side dying right before she got to see one of her wishes come true; me starting school.

My beloved cat Titti dying when I was out of the country, I did not even get to say goodbye to her or get to pet her when she fell asleep for the last time.

My greatgrandma passing away that same time when I was gone, I didn't even get to go to her funeral.

My great grandpa also passing away shortly after my great grandma, when I wasn't there.

My grandpa slowly withering away from leukemia.

Me getting a bloodclot in my eye and loosing vision without a chance in hell of regaining it.

Me getting diabetes type 2.

My boyfriend (who was an EXTREMELY devout Christian, he even went to a private Christian school for years) getting cancer in his spinal cord. He spent forever in the hospital going through surgery after surgery, and he has several problems to this very day thanks to it, many mental thanks to scars and so on. Everyone from his church told him God was just "testing" him, but you know what? A loving God would never do such a thing.

Last time I was at the cemetary there was a new grave for a little child, with a little teddybear holding an envelope in it's hands, a letter written by another small child, probably a sibling, a goodbye letter marked by tears.

I could go on and on FOREVER but this is just making me too upset, so sorry.

Oh, I just saw jackiesdaisy1935's post. Heh... And you call ME rude? Atleast I never called you an ********.

Anyways, dig your signature. LOL

I was never banned from Pet Talk. I willingly left a long time ago right after I just signed up for the very same reason as I am posting this: I was getting fed up with all the "God bless the USA" stuff. But of course, bring up the past if you so wish. I thought you Christians were supposed to be oh-so forgiving?

And as for your comment about the USA having freedom of religion (which basically every other country in the world has, and not just your "special" country) did you somehow forget that you are SUPPOSED to have a thing called freedom of speech (which also basically every other country has)? That "freedom" of yours should allow me to say whatever I please about your country. That was a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

And I thought you weren't gonna post here anymore? I must have read wrong.

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him? - Blaise Pascal

BTW, I thought of another reason... I once talked about how much I loved animals to an American pastor. Do you know what he said to me? He said "Animals are just here for food and then have no soul. I mean after all, if God didn't want us to eat them why would he have made them out of meat". Lovely huh?

Ann, I allowed this thread to continue because the discussion had veered toward simple discussion, but your tone has become argumentative and dismissive of others.

To everyone:

This is Pet Talk! This is NOT the place to debate religion or to prove or disprove the existence of God.

Please, everyone, if you want to debate religion, do not do it here. Do it in emails, do it at another discussion board, but every time this subject gets brought up, emotions flare and bad feelings result.

All this started with just a simple "do you think this is a real picture?"

Although, I don't think the angel or devil pictures are real, they were fun to look at. Thanks for posting them :D

I`m sorry for posting the pictures everyone!This got WAY too out of hand!

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Originally posted by Ann
zippy-kat:
I'd be interested in hearing your personal experiences.

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I am willing to share Ann. But let's conduct it via email, ok?
You can email me at [email protected]

THANK YOU KAREN
Jackie

This has been bugging me for a few days now, so I may as well have my say.

Why did you come to this site? PET OF THE DAY!

Many of the thousands of members here have gotten to know each other very well. How did we accomplish that? Because, we talked about our PETS! We know what kind of animal(s) you have and we respond to each other's questions about health, food, medications, behavior problems and on and on.

Most of us are here because we love our pets dearly and we have fun sharing our stories, but jump when a question arises and we can help.

Some of you and let me repeat SOME, never talk about their pets, but they if there is a controversial subject you are on it like a fly.

This isn't what this site is all about. Surely there are many sites that will encourage unlimited discussions about religion, politics and any other subject that you might like to partipate in. Why did you pick PET TALK to vent your opinions?

I for one, am sick to death of hearing how we only make nice nice here...........and we can't stand controversy.

Please, go find a site that just loves controversy and devote your time and attention there. We, here at Pet Talk would like to get back to the whole point of this site. PETS!

From the sudden tone that this thread has taken, I have a feeling that it's about to be shut down. Just wanted to say that I enjoyed hearing everyone's viewpoints and if anyone would like to continue this discussion with me my e-mail is : [email protected] (there are underscores in there Senior_eagle_2001). Feel free to e-mail me! I'm sorry that this thread has upset some of you so much that it's in danger of being shut down.

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I`m sorry for posting the pictures everyone!This got WAY too out of hand!

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Don't be sorry. You didn't know.


Gini:

I did come here for my pets and I do talk about them and throw out my suggestions when asked. With that being said, it was nice to talk about something other than them. I love my babies dearly but after a while I've said all I can about them. I thought this board was about commuication as well as pets. Can we not have one conversation that doesn't revolve around our pets. Sorry if you find this rude or otherwise but I had to state my opinion.

Converse yes, fight, no! Other > General has lots of discussions about other things than pets!

But mainly, Pet Talk is about pets. It is what we all have in common, and why we are here, as part of this community!

There's another cat site that allows to talk about everything between heaven and earth, the address is available when you click here


you can also email me at [email protected] if you feel like it. :)

Is it a fight or difference in opinion? Because I personally think it all is a difference in opinion. I'm sure no one on here is trying to hurt each others feelings but when you believe something as strongly as most do religion sometimes you feel like you are being attacked when you really aren't. That's just what I think, I could be wrong. (It's been know to happen. LOL)

[I love my babies dearly but after a while I've said all I can about them. [/B][/QUOTE]

I can go on and on and on and on and on and on..... ok... I guess you get the message. But I never tire of talking about Dixie or Dusty. Just today I had them on the phone with daddy and they were barking and getting so excited to here his voice. It was the greatest thing!! I am so glad their daddy loves them as much as me!!!! :D Now if I could only get him to use the pooper scooper! :rolleyes: LOL

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Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
[I love my babies dearly but after a while I've said all I can about them.

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I can go on and on and on and on and on and on..... ok... I guess you get the message. But I never tire of talking about Dixie or Dusty. Just today I had them on the phone with daddy and they were barking and getting so excited to here his voice. It was the greatest thing!! I am so glad their daddy loves them as much as me!!!! :D Now if I could only get him to use the pooper scooper! :rolleyes: LOL [/B][/QUOTE]


Ok, ok so you caught me I can do the same but it was nice to talk about something else. BTW i think it's just a male thing when it comes to not using the pooper scooper. LOL :rolleyes: MEN!

Let me just say that I don't think anyone here has a closed mind. I think what we are trying to say is that some things are better done by PM than by expressing ourselves publicly on this board and possibly upsetting the others. It is hard to express oneself via e-mail or public boards. Body language, etc. is not seen. The written word has no voice inflections, try as we might to add emoticons. I think that when we stray too far from pet-related topics we get into trouble here, and that is not what Karen and Paul had in mind when they created Pet Talk (please correct me if I am wrong.) I would suggest PMing those who you would like to discuss things with or searching for a religious or political site that might provide a stimulating discussion. I am not "mad" at anyone. I just wish these discussions could take place elsewhere. Hope you understand....

Karen, I'm sorry you feel that way. But let me ask you this... You made it out like your main reason that you don't want this thread to go on is because it doesn't fit in with Pet Talk since it's not about pets, but when 9/11 comes around and people post their memorials and so on here saying things like "God bless the USA and all the souls of the people who died", will you say the same thing then? I honestly don't think you would even CONSIDER anything like that, and that's the only reasons why I started all this crap in the first place; because I thought it was unfair that as long as it was the non-pet related, God-loving, patriotic stuff it was ok, but when it's the non-pet related controversial stuff it's NOT ok. Get my point? That's ALL I ever tried to do with this all and I'm sorry you can't see that. And before someone jumps on me and says that I am being insensitive about 9/11, it was just an EXAMPLE. I too think what happened was terrible, the way I always feel when lives are lost.

zippy-kat (and Andie), will do :) I look forward hearing from you!

gini (and Pam), I partly agree with Andie here; I too think it's nice to have an discussion that's not related to pets once in a while. However, I too can go on and on and on about them LOL. And you know, I used to go to another forum that had more "deeper" thoughts. However, that site was the complete opposite of Pet Talk because it welcomed religious and politic threads, but it wasn't too fond of pet related topics. I guess I was just hoping that I one day could find one site that would embrace EVERYTHING I enjoyed talking about. Oh well... Pet Talk is obviously not suited for that and the other site I spoke about... Well, it was closed down by the USA government for it's political views.

Niina, you know I've been at that site before. I'll try to drop by again soon! Thanks for reminding me!

popcornbird, that's too bad, I was hoping to hear your responses to some of the things I sad. Oh well... I have one question to you though! Well two actually come to think of it... I had a best friend a long time ago who was muslim, and she always spelled it "Kuran" instead of "Quran". Is it just a Swedish and English way of spelling it or was she wrong somehow? And secondly you said that it is the pure word of your God, never altered or anything... But what about translations? They must obviously have been altered and KNOW it has been translated into other languages...

Ann, I am so sorry you had all those losses. Truly I am. But I cannot understand how you blame God for all of them. God is our Father, and like any loving parent lets us make mistakes and choices, b/c of free will. Of course I am not saying that your relatives chose to pass on, so please don't think that is what I am saying. But free will is what happened on Sept 11, and in Oklahoma City, and all other times that terrorism has hit us and other tragedys.

My grandpa had Parkinson's disease, had a massive stroke, while my grandma was away with my parents b/n Christmas and New Years of 1999. And he died the day before our Family Christmas of 2000. He survived almost 11 mos. We never got to say goodbye either. But I don't blame God, my grandpa was a devout Christian, and he ended up where he wanted to be. It didn't make my family turn away from God, it turned us to him and each other. Our Pastor stated at church, that "This family will be ok, they will pull together and support one another." I always think of that, I think that is an awesome compliment.
My beloved greyhound that is my heart dog, and dog of a lifetime, crossed to the bridge on Sept 13, 2001. 2 days after Sept 11. I was devasted, I felt like I couldn't function or go on without her.. But what got me thru was knowing that God took her home to be with all those people that died on Sept 11. She was there with them so the children could play with her since they didn't have their doggies anymore. Not that I didn't need her, but there were many more that needed her more than I did.
Since I am confessing to you, I will also confess this story too:
My faith got shaken deeply about a year and half ago. A friend at work who had had a miscarriage, was pregnant again. She and her husband did everything right, ultrasounds, prenatal care, etc. Then she went into labor 3 mos early and had the baby, the doctors decided to life flight the baby to a Children's hospital, by the time her parents got there the baby was the baby was gone. They had a funeral for her, and from what people told me, I couldn't go, is it was the tiniest casket they had ever seen. She was only about 5 lbs. And the sobs from the father carrying the casket, made everyone break out into goosebumps and cry themselves.
During that time at work, we had
- a nurse's aid's son got hit by a hit and run driver on his scooter, hit him so hard it knocked him out of his shoes
- another nurse's sister was found dead mysteriously, they think her husband had something to do with it
- a doctor's son committed suicide
We felt we had a black cloud over us. I even made the comment to someone that "my faith in God,is shaken". And someone told me, it should make it stronger, and I went to church and it did. I am not a good churchgoer, much to my mother's dismay, so I am not going to even go there with you, I can't suggest to you something I don't do myself.

I do hope you listen to Tonya and others with an open mind. I am not saying you will have been reborn or anything. I just hope you realize that our God IS A LOVING GOD. And an awesome God.
Good day!

My friends that lost the baby, had another baby girl, 3 mos early, I asked for prayer for her in March I believe, and she is doing beautifully. I saw her yesterday and she is a happy 7 mos old that is absolutley adorable!!!


(I will be gone for a week, so don't be offended if I don't respond!)

I'm sorry to hear about all of your tragedies. I, too, have had many, but they are not the reason why I don't believe in the traditional sense. To be honest, no one knows why things happen for sure. We can have our best guesses, and claim it was because God loved/hated you, but that won't get you anywhere really. What I have done when bad things came my way, was just to say to myself that it could always have been worse and that I can either learn from this or continue to let it hurt me and tear me apart. I choose to learn. And that has nothing to do with religion, just life skills.


Also...if you never experience pain and sorrow, how can you ever truly appreciate how wonderful happiness is?

Scroll up a bit folks, Karen said to go and discuss about this somewhere else....

I have emailed Ann, as her message box here is full.

:(
This sucks everytime I start to have a good conversation it is put to a stop some way.

Excuse me while I go sulk



:(

Andie, don't sulk. Just start a new, other conversation! And I didn't close the thread, either You can email or PM anyone to continue the conversation if you wish to get into a heated argument about religion ... or politics ...