That is awful. Sad when things like that happen. Hope charges agianst the father were laid and the daughter is alright. Abuse is just plain wrong.
Nicole
That is awful. Sad when things like that happen. Hope charges agianst the father were laid and the daughter is alright. Abuse is just plain wrong.
Nicole
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catty1
And what makes you think I know anything about make-up? :confused:
And where are the men in this story? :mad:
the men will be in court - if they can get any of the present women to speak.
Or the DNA testing! ;)
I hope if the women get the right counsling that they will talk. But it might not happen. They were raised and brainwashed extensively into this religion. And we might never know the full extent of the abuse many of them have gone through also. To many of them what went on may have seemed normal and ok because that is what they were raised with and brainwashed with. Which is the sad state of it. I just hope a few or more of them with the right kind of treatment and therapy can come forward and give a full account of what went on there so that the men can be charge with the full extent of their crimes.
One of the sad parts though is should the adult women be charged too for being a part of it or allowing it to happen? The thing that will have to be looked at is how brainwashed were they? Did they honestly know deep down that what was going on was wrong? If they didn't and they had no real contact with the outside then what can they be charged with? They were raised to believe such was ok. In fact that if they didn't they were going agianst God or some such thing. How ingrained was this in their minds so that we can fully see who all is at fault?
We could easily say that both parents are at fault because they were both adults and so on. But is that totally true? I am not saying it is or isn't. I personally have not made up my mind yet. But if the women were raised in this enviroment, with no influence to the outsides thinking, then how much fault can you place on them? Honest question. Just something to think about.
Nicole
In light of the court order releasing the children back to their mothers. A cartoon from a few days ago.:rolleyes:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/...5/39301075.jpg
Yes, that's right. You and I can look at the situation and say that the mothers are at fault as well but we weren't raised in that environment w/out outside influence. Ya don't know what ya don't know. If, as adults, they joined this organization (I don't know if you can join; I'm just guessing here), then, of course, they're culpable. It's such a convoluted situation and the ones who suffer are the ones who have already suffered enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleLJ
Yesterday I saw on the news photos of Warren Jeffs w/an 11 or 12 year old girl; her exact age hadn't been determined yet. He was kissing her on the mouth like a husband would kiss his wife. How that can be perceived as anything other than abuse is beyond me. It brought tears to my eyes. Jeffs should be worried about his safety in prison, that's for sure.
I saw that too. Am I wrong or did the girl look pregnant? She looked it to me anyway. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa
I don't know, I didn't notice. That would be even more tragic.Quote:
Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces
It was just that in the pic where he was holding her off her feet, her tummy looked awfully big. I sure hope she's not expecting too. :(
If Jeffs was acting like that to an 11 year old, isn't that statutory rape? I think the big tangle is going to take elaborate DNA testing to unravel, since those people all look like they are closely related. Maybe the state was too ham-fisted going in there, but this is Texas, after all...;) (Apologies to any of our members from that state!)
If the women grew up in the "cult" and never knew any different, then I don't think they should be liable. I wonder if it would be possible to find any of the rejected boys/young men and have them testify about conditions in the compound. It would provide a different perspective, and the males may have been "deprogrammed" to a certain extent.
Dr. Phil had a couple of the boys on his show and I believe they had been members of this group, although I can't be certain. Their stories were just as chilling.Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey the elder
I thought the state of TX was way, way out of line, grabbing all the minors, based on one statement given to them - by an unknown person. What were they thinking?
I agree that there should be some inspection and regulation for the children, but I think that state of TX screwed up, royally. Does anyone here think that foster homes are better than the ranch? Haven't we all heard such horror stories about foster homes?
I hope these folks at the ranch, wake up and allow inspections and regulations.... if that is what is going to be asked of them.
I think our society has much to repair, when it comes to rearing children. Can you accept how some of the ghetto children are treated and reared? At least the ranch folks feed their children.....and are drug free.......Can you think of any more horrible of an upbringing than some of the gang ridden slums not too far from where we live .....and having them going completely ignored?
Don't get me started on rearing children. Don't get me started on the under fed and unloved children in this world. We should all be ashamed of ourselves.....for not yelling louder and sooner and MORE!
Sasvermont, I respectfully disagree. The YFZ ranch was a grotesque haven of emotional torment and sexual abuse. To say "at least they fed the children" and "kept them drug free" is putting an incorrect euphemism to a hideous, heinous crime. The authorities had been trying to tag them many times before, but how can one do that if the alleged victims are held under psychological lock and key? When authorities arrived, no one would talk and there was no explicit abuse that could be pinpointed (i.e. starvation - which can be photographed and brought to court). Emotional abuse is incredibly difficult to diagnose and exterminate (especially when the victims are essentially hiding from the outside world), but there was a huge red flag pointing to the FLDS long before the phone call. I would assume that the phone call was just the most tangible piece of evidence the authorities could bank on.
The folks running the ranch will not allow regulation and inspection. They despise modern society and our government and would not want "us" intruding on them.
By the way, has anyone seen this? It's a preview of "Damned to Heaven":
http://www.freshfilm.com/damnedtoheaven/
I cried just watching the preview. I've yet to find where I can rent the film, though...One of the quotes haunts me: "If that's what Heaven is, I accept Hell. Gladly."
Edit: Here are the pictures of Jeffs kissing the young girls:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...7081flds1.html
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/19678/polygamy-40 Book "Escape"
I have read this book...thorough and interesting. In the latest edition, the author publishes the FLDS response to the first printing, and writes HIS response to THEIRS. Gives a good historical account of how this splinter group came to be.
http://www.randomhouse.com/features/krakauer/
Lastly, for more links and further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundame...ter_Day_Saints