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The one I have says the same thing. It was told that the one that states low was for use in small doses of application. When it was used for a few years in pesticide Roundup, they changed it to more toxic for handling etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajesticCollies
MSDS data depends on the concentration of the chemical in a given product. The MSDS I pulled the data from was from an MSDS for pure ethoxyquin.
I almost didn't reply to this thread, and maybe I shouldn't....I am so sick of some people on here saying what bad pet owners some of us are for feeding a high quality kibble instead of raw. Please, just stop :( I can understand if I was feeding something low quality, but I feed Chicken Soup for the Soul to my crew, which is a high quality food. Could you just please not be so condesending to those of us who do not choose to feed raw? Thank you.
chicken soup is great! I dont feed it because I cant have something that might sweel in the gut with a VERY LARGE chested breed here. But I love the content.Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
Right now, my dogs are on bil jac. I know it turns to mush and being unable to do the raw because of recent surgeries, at least I know they are getting a diet that doesnt swell, and I have a 9 year old that has been fed nothing but raw food, and I know its not a shock to him..
I love my dogs... and their health is more of concern even over mine..
I've been feeding Ultra, but I am switching to Royal Canin. It's not raw, but it's a high quality dog food.
Royal Canin is pretty good too.. And timber wolf ( name?) but that one is not available in this area.
I apologize for my last post, I was tired and cranky, and there have been a lot of debates about raw vs. kibble on here. I don't deny for a second that raw is an excellent diet, it's just not for me at this particular time. :)
Thats okay= it does take preparation etc and committment. Actually right now, my guys are on bil jac until I feel better to do the routine again..Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
Some organic foods
http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=home-tab
Sample diets on API
http://www.api4animals.org/articles?p=360&more=1
There are some great kibbles/canned food out there like the ones mentions, chick soup, Solid Gold and others like Innova, Bill Jac. When I had my first dog I got a book from the library Dr. Pitcaryn (spelling) natural health for dogs & cats. That was 1983. The book said basically what the linked article says. I talked to my vet about the book, the recipes in it, and he gave me some guidelines and I cooked for my dog. By the time I got my 2 & 3rd dogs, they were alot to cook for, but I was able to find "healty" options for canned & Kibble that I alternated. BTW cooking was inexpensive. My first to Goldens lived to be 14 1/2 and each came from a pet store (before I new better) My 3rd golden was already 2, and came from a friend who got him from a breeder. He lived to be almost 14.
My guys are back on raw after 4 days of back to bil jac while I recupperated.
does anyone have a list of the good feeds? I have been feeding my dad's puppy purina one supplemented with moist natural choice lately, and it seems to have been doing well for him, but it sounds like it might make sense to change his feed...and neither I nor dad can in now way afford a raw diet. I am also getting ready to get a white shepherd puppy in a few months, and if someone could suggest a good puppy feed (I will usually get kibble and mix it with moist feed, once a day to once every two days). He is getting ready to leave puppyhood so I have to change his feed anyway.
thanks!!!
-Ceph
Um wow way to be rude.. Lady's human arent you related to Karen OWNER of the site?
EDIT: Lady's human is Karen's BROTHER know I can say it to you..do you know who YOUR talking to? I wouldnt be disrespectful to the moderator/creater of the site if you want to stay on here..
Well I feed raw but I keep bil jac as a back up. I live on a mountain top, and the power goes on and off easily. The generator only does the well and the heat if we dont have a fire going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceph
Here bil jac is easy to get, but there are some others I liked too- but cant get them any more- royal canin, solid gold, timberwolf, nutro holistic, and uhhhhh .. well one more.
Its late for me, but I can look into it if you want me too. I like the bil jac because its not just chicken but also organ meat, and it doesnt sweel. I have a deep chested breed, and we guard against a swelling food with our lives here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borzoimom
Its not anything I need right now, but it is something that might be useful in the next couple of days...I am going home for Turkey-Break and I am going to start formulating a training / feeding plan for baby Jay. You have been awsome! Thanks!
-Ceph
Congrats on your upcoming puppy! :) Where are you getting him from? I had a white shepherd, he was a sweet boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceph
These are some foods I recommend: Innova (EVO is their best formula in my opinion), Solid Gold (Barking at the Moon is an awesome forumla), Nature's Variety (Raw Instincts is a great formula!), Canidae, Go Natural, Foundations, Summit, Healthwise, California Natural, Natural Balance...The only issue I have with Nutro Ultra is that they refuse to name their meat source (they cannot get into Canada during BSL scares) and use poultry fat. Otherwise I think it's a good food.
NO PROBLEM.. Have I mentioned my baby is engaged and getting married december 1... EVERYBODYYYYYYYYY CONGO!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceph
First off... Shouldn't this be under Health instead of Dog Breeds? ;- D
Second of all i've been wanting to find someone that feeds raw with success so that i can bring up a concern.
Whenever i could afford it i would feed King raw. However in the past two years he'd get really sick from some raw meat. I just figured it was his digestive system shutting down. Now there is a recue dog i'm trying to help place. She had been eating raw meat for three weeks (her own fresh kills,) with no problems. She was given some raw chicken from the store and got very ill. I'm beginning to think that there is something going on with the poultry in our area. What are your thoughts?
But i just want to share my experience...Quote:
Originally Posted by BETH ROBBINS
King was loosing muscle mass bad in his last few months of life so i was doing everythign i could for him. I was researching the benifits and risks of garlic (AGAIN.) After careful consideration i decided to try feeding him kibble with out garlic in it. Then meant switching off of the tried and true Wysong and into the unknown. Tried Canidae, but for the third time he got violently sick from it (as did any dog visiting my house did.) Then i tried one of the kitty foods from Royal Canin and he seemed to be doing well on that so we switched him to one of the doggy foods. He started having other problems after a month. Took him to the vet once again... He now had a major protein definicency. The vet told us for what it's worth just switch him back to the Wysong, so we did and the new problems went away.
I wish you luck with the Royal Canin, but wanted to give you a heads up on a possible future problem. If it works out for you and your dog though... GREAT!!! :- )
Crow noir-
I have been feeding raw for 18 years. What do you need to know? If I dont have the answer, and several others that have been feeding it for a long time, and will hopefully find you an answer.
Did the vet say anything about a Taurine deficiency? Most dog foods dont supplement Taurine (Amino Acid) because the dog can typically make it on their own from cystine and methionine....cats however cannot so their food is Taurine supplemented (deficiencies cause eye degeneration, possible myocardial problems and lethargy). It may be that he was doing well on the cat food because of that extra supplementation.
So for a dog that has no problem with Taurine that food might not be so bad, but it could be very dangerous for a dog that has problems synthesizing Taurine on his own.
-Ceph
again- right on Ceph. Taurine is also a water soluable vitamin, and most dog foods this is lost in processing. I add fish to my dogs diet every day.
The vet never mentioned a taurine deficency, but what you said makes a lot of sense. All the vet mentioned was a protein deficency.
Hindsight is 20/20 though... and it's a little too late to talk about it now. All i can do is file it away for future reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceph
That is why I add a little fish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borzoimom
Basically, if i had no problems feeding dog raw before, and now i can't with out them getting seriously ill, do you think there is something going on with the domestic meat supplies around here. (Especially since any fresh caught mean didn't make them ill.) It doesn't seem to me that it was it would be the problems some people have with the switching between dry food and raw. I had no problems doing that with King for four years. (One month is too short of a time to tell with the foster dog i'd think.)Quote:
Originally Posted by crow_noir
Some dogs have a problem with poultry. I only had one that did.. What are you feeding...
Bobbie is my first dog so I am quite illiterate as far as dog raising goes. I follow whatever our vet tells us, but lately I am thinking that perhaps this is not the road to follow.
My 4 year old medium sized Griffon was brought up on whatever handouts were provided as she was raised on the streets in the "care" of a homeless alcoholic. Handouts consisted of potato chips, French fries, sandwiches, nuts and God knows what else. After having adopted her, we have tried to get her to eat dog food. We have tried all leading brands and the only one she grudgingly eats and that on occasion is PEDIGREE dry food and FROLIC dry food. Forget the canned stuff. She turns her nose on that.
She loves fish, chicken and meat in general, spaghetti or any kind of past, dairy products and doggie treats, especially salmon kibbles and smoke flavoured bone chews.
Both vets we have taken her to, insist on feeding her HILLS or SCIENCE PLAN "in order to avoid later health problems". I suspect however that they are promoting these labels for their own interest. They also said to leave her without food for 2-3 days in order to teach her to eat dog food. Well sorry, but after 3 days I couldn’t bear sitting at the table and having her watch our every spoonful.
I have tried cooking various fish or meats with rice or pasta (no onions or salt added) and included a little grated carrots or zucchini in hope that she would get some vitamins in her. Somehow she managed to eat all the fish or meats and leave the rest on her plate.
I have read in many of your comments that you feed your dogs raw food. The vets however are very stern about avoiding raw meats. Can you please give me some advice on what to feed her? Perhaps I should give her some dog vitamins as a supplement?
I want to keep her healthy but also have her live a happy life. :confused:
I saw your other post and will put most of the information here.
I have been feeding raw for 18 almost even 19 years now. It does take committment to do so, but I have found wonderful results. First of all- dogs would naturally eat raw meat. SEcond they can NOT GET salminella, or worms from raw meat etc like humans can because their digestitve enzymes are harsher, and their body temperature is higher than ours. As far as protection to yourself, simple meat preparation like you would for your own family- use a plastic cutting board, washing with soup and water, and your hands as well. I also use kitchen wipes that have bleach on them to wipe the counter surface.
To feed raw to an adult dog, you are feeding two percent of their body weight over two feedings or one percent twice a day. So my hundred pound dog gets a pound of meat twice a day. I then add in a food processor- a beta caratine veggie ( mine like yellow squash, or sweet pototoe, zuccinni) when add raw egg and the shell ( for calcium) yogurt or cottage cheese, process this- then add a vitamin- I like Missing link granular, and for my show dogs- I add " Hair of the dog" which is an Omega 6 and 3 vitamin made for long coat length. ( now all of mine get this hair of the dog, as I saw a result in my rescue to help with her thyroidism.)
For meat I use chicken thighs, or tripe, or ground turkey, chicken necks-backs, chicken livers, tipoli fish or mackeral.
How big is your dog in weight? Then I will pm you with ideas for the meat source.
All of this is raw. Including the veggies. If you cook the veggies, you will loose over half your beta caratine vitamins.
As politely as possible.......
Dogs ARE susceptible to salmonella, and they most certainly can get worms from raw meat.
Feed raw, feed whatever you want, but DON'T SPREAD MYTHS!
Bobbie is 31 pounds (14 kilos). She is what you would call a medium sized Griffon (probably mixed up with something else).
Thank you for the help. :)
I thank you both for your opinions but now I am even more confused :confused:
Its simple- people that feed raw swear by it- those that dont, do others. Whatever you decide just stick with it. My vet supports raw diet, and several in my family in dogs do as well. Most borzoi people also feed raw, as the main concern in any deep chested dog is bloat. A raw fed dog will not bloat at least not from food swelling in the gut causing GVD.
The way kibble is made is with a process called extrusion. ( well at least most of the foods). This is at a high temperature destroying most of the B vitamins.
At 30 pounds the dog would eat a 1/3 of a pound of meat with about two tablespoons of the mixture I listed above. At 30 pounds chewing larger chicken bones would be hard, so I would use chicken wings or drumstick ground in a processor. If your dog has a poultry allergy, use beef, or fish, venison. I avoid pork. Its too high in a fat content raw. And usually seasoned as well.
If I can help you farther, just pm me. All of us believe we are feeding our the dogs the best we can and believe in it. I also like the fact that feeding raw doesnt need chemical preservatives or the use of vitamin E to preserve that can go racid in shelf life. ( one of the main basis for kibble recalls in recent years.)