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I beleive that for sure! I have a quote on my fridge that says,Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura's Babies
"Trials are not enemies of faith, but are opportunities to prove God's faithfulness."
Your son is living proof that God was faithful and brought him through.
I just want to clarify one thing...
I believe in God. ONE God. Almighty God. One God. One Creator. I do not, by any means, believe in trinity. So...my belief in God would be different than the belief some of you here have. I believe God is ONE, supreme, far above having a son or any associates. My religion (Islam)'s main teachings are about the One-ness of God. In our faith, God has no partners, and no associates. When we pray to God, we pray directly to HIM, without going through anyone else.
I have a question about those who believe in trinity. This is out of complete curiosity, as trinity has always been something far from my understanding.
If you believe God is 3 in 1, and you believe all 3 parts (God, Jesus, Holy Ghost) are a part of God...and you believe God is supreme and exalted, yet, at the same time, you believe Jesus died on the cross...........Are you saying its possible for a part of God to DIE??? God cannot die. WE die. Not God. Not any part of God. I really need someone to explain this to me.
As to saying Christianity is THE way.....
I know that Christianity has MANY sects, and MANY different versions of the Bible which are very different. Which one is THE word of God, and which one is altered? How can you know? I have 3 different Bibles at home, and each one is different.
Also...if Jesus died for our sins...what about the people before Jesus? They had no one to die for their sins, so what happened to them? What about the people of Noah, Abraham, Jonah, Moses? They were believers...but Jesus didn't die for their sins. He wasn't even born then. What happened to the believers who existed for centuries before Jesus?
I just wanted to say one other thing. I don't care what anyone's religion is or lack of religion, but I do have one strong opinion. If ANYTHING in ANY religion makes ANYONE hurt or feel bad it should just be taken out. It seems simple enough, but obviously it's not. If your religion tells you being gay is wrong and gays should die or be shunned, take it out. If your religion has hatred for Jews, take it out, and so on. I know it would never happen, but think if it did. There would be so much more peace on earth.
I had a teacher in HS say that religion is not a buffet; you can’t pick and choose what you want. I don’t buy into that at all. There are a lot of rules and situations made by man and we all know that mankind has screwed a lot of stuff up in the world. Also, think about it. When certain words of Christ or whoever you believe in were actually written down there was like one guy in the village that could read and write. That guy could have added anything he wanted and most people wouldn’t have known until it had gotten passed on. I know it sounds silly, but I’m not ready to believe what that one guy added. It’s kind of like playing the telephone game, information gets changed.
Region should make you feel good and make you want to be good and not make others feel bad. I guess that would be called the ultimate utopia. :)
Lots of questions - I don't really have the time to answer all of them because I am *supposed* to be working ;) but I'll try a little here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
The people before Jesus, such as those in the Old Testament, made sacrifices to God. Jesus sacrificed Himself, so we don't need to make the sacrifices to God anymore. The believers who followed God's word before Jesus were still able to go to heaven, it was just a lot more difficult. Jesus made it a lot easier.
Just want to address this real quick. NOt sure what religion you are talking about, or just religion in general, so I am just answering for Christianity. There *should be* NO hatred in Christianity. Jesus taught us to love everyone. Is homosexuality considered a sin? Yes. But then again, so is stealing a tube of lipstick from Wal Mart. Both are on the same level in God's eyes. All sins are equal. I know plenty of gay people that are Christians. If they ask God for forgiveness, just as the person who stole paper clips from work or murdered someone, they can be forgiven. I know that's a tough concept, because here we classify those 'sins' as completely different, but they are not in God's eyes. We are to love our neighbors, and not hate anyone. A favorite quote of mine: "Love the sinner, hate the Sin." We are ALL sinners, every one of us. No one is 'above' anyone else, not in the least.Quote:
If your religion tells you being gay is wrong and gays should die or be shunned, take it out. If your religion has hatred for Jews, take it out, and so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
I respect your opinion, but I don't see being gay as a sin and I don't think anyone should have to ask forgiveness for it. To me it's like saying I have to ask forgiveness for being born with brown eyes. Stealing is a choice, being gay isn’t. I don't want to get off the subject too much though. I also don't want to cause an arguement about this. Just trying to keep this thread lite :)
I think a lot of confusion, at least in the Christian religion, is we get confused as to what is our respoisibility and what is God's. If God doesn't like someone's sexuality, it's HIS job to change it not ours. We are to love others: period. Jesus said Love your neighbor as yourself. He did not say, love your neighbor only if he is straight or white or a Christian.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
How some Christians can dislike Jewish people is beyond me. My lord is Jewish. To hate them would be to hate HIM. I just can't do that.
Just my opinions, of course.
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Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces
Hating Jews was never taught to me. I think you know that, but jus tthought I should clarify. :) There are probably 100 examples I could have used.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I was talking about you. You just mentioned it and I ran with it. It's just always puzzled me that some Christians dislike Jewish peope so much. We share the same Bible but Christians just have more to theirs. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces
Very well said. It is God's job to change what He doesn't want for His children...and not ours to argue over it... ( not pointing the finger at any one person,really, but this subject always comes up and there will always be disagreements on it)...
There are some very judgemental people in this world, Christian and non-chrisitian alike. It is no one's place to ever put down someone's life or lifestyle. We are to love our neighbor. Christianity and Christian's beleive what the Bible teaches and not just parts of it, but all of it. And while we should not put down someone's lifestyle...it does not mean that we agree with it either. Homosexuality is a topic that will never ever be agreed upon, by Christians, Non-Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. Christian's believe in the Bible and the words of the Bible in it's entirety....that includes both loving your neighbor, even if that neighbor is gay. I have had many gay friends in the 29 years that I have been living...do I believe this lifestyle exemplifies what Christ intended for his children, no, I do not, does Christ love gay people, yes, He loves everyone, does he love the fact that they are gay, no, it is not what he intended and it is stated so in the Bible. That is something that can only ever be judged by God. And we can argue our points on this until we are blue in the face, but we will never agree on it. That is something that we have to truely, let go and let God take care of...
I have never walked in the shoes of a gay man or woman....so I can not say what it is like. Nor can a gay man or woman say they have walked in my shoes as a born again christian woman...and so they in the same turn, can not understand why I believe like I do. Somethings will have to be left to God to judge...we can certainly discuss the issues at hand, but when it all comes down to it, you won't get the same response from one Christian to another on the topic of homosexuality...b/c even just the word "Christian" is a term used very loosely...many denominations fall into the "Christian" catagory and we infact can believe very different things. It basically comes down to mans heart and God is the only one who can truely know it....
I don't understand this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Christiansmommy
God has already made things the way He wanted. God gave mankind the freedom of choice, and God gave us guidance, and the choice to take it, or disbelieve in it. I don't know why this is going into a homosexual discussion, but...since everyone's talking about it now,...
Love is something that comes from the heart and love for a person is not something that can really be controlled, HOWEVER, love can also JUST be love, without anything sexual.
Sex is a CHOICE, a pure CHOICE, and nothing but a CHOICE. We are all human beings and all have cravings and fantasies...its in our nature, but its when cravings and fantasies are allowed to rule us, without us ruling them, that it leads to sin. Adultery is a sin. Adultery is committed between a man and woman that were married to someone else. They fell in love with each other (perhaps they could not control those feelings?) Then, they commit the act with each other. Then, they get accused of cheating by the entire world. No one says, "Oh...they couldn't control their feelings...", like people say about gays. Its because they COULD control their feelings and COULD have refrained from that act. They just chose not to.
My point is...whether a man and a woman 'crave' for each other, if they are married to someone else, committing adultery is a sin, period. It IS a choice. It IS a choice to go and have sex with someone you love. Your body doesn't run automatically. If you have cheese and omelett in front of you, are hungry and craving for both, but only have the option for one, you have the CHOICE to pick and eat the food you want.
God MADE man and woman, two genders, to be mates to one another. It goes no other way. If someone does it some other way...well...to some of you, it may not be a sin, but God Almighty said its a sin, and that's that. He also said adultery is a sin, and He said fornication is a sin, and He said murder is a sin, and while a person can repent and be forgiven for all of these sins, repentence is in order. God will not change gays because he didn't make them that way. He made them male and female just like us. He gave them the same body parts and body shapes as everyone else. Its their mind that takes them in that direction...just like an adulterous' mind takes him in that direction. At that moment, he's not thinking, "I'm married", but that, "I love this woman...I can't help it..."
Why do we encourage kids to abstain in their youth then? Why don't we just say, "They can't help it...They're made that way...blah blah blah..." Its because they CAN help it. Our sexual actions are in OUR control. It makes no sense to say, "They were made that way..." No one is compelled to commit sexual acts with their own gender. They do it because they WANT to. Because they CHOOSE to. The sinful aspect of homosexuality is committing sexual acts with a person of the same sex. That is the SIN. Feeling love for a person is not a sin. Its actually a good thing to love our friends, family, neighbors, etc. Just not in that way. :eek:
Satan tries to make us justify ourselves for whatever wrong we do, be it homosexuality, or anything else. That doesn't take the sin aspect out of it. JMHO
Remember...this is a 'do you believe in God' thread, so everyone will be voicing their opinions in the way THEY see things.
Some answers for PCB. I hope this helps. :)
Pops, God, in the form of Christ, died on the cross (remember the three parts to His Diety). He did this to satisfy His own demands, set forth in the Old Testament that *without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins.* As JenBKR said, blood offerings were offered before this time and God *counted it for righteousness* (remember the Passover?) After Jesus paid the ultimate price for sin there was no longer a need for a blood sacrifice. Jesus is referred to as the *Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.* We accept His sacrifice and apply it to our lives and out of gratitude to Him we follow Him.
Over the ages many denominations have come into being. People approach Christianity from many differing backgrounds and many different cultural ideas. Denomination is not the issue here. What someone does in their heart is. The place that Christ has in one's own heart is more important than the denomination or church where they worship. God is able to sort it all out. If we have accepted Jesus into our lives as our Lord and have accepted His grace which allows us to become partakers of his atonement that is all that matters. We worship Him and live for Him out of gratitude and a thankful heart.
When I have surrounded certain phrases by * & * they are direct quotes from the Bible.
I am undecided! I kind of do and i kind of dont, I am confused.
By saying it is up to God to change what He doesn't want for His children, I guess would be explained more clearly as....When we repent for something that the Holy Spirit convicted us of...the Holy Spirit makes that change within us, when we repent of our sins (and are convicted of them)...we can no longer be like our old self, that is why we are called "born again"...the Holy Spirit now dwells within us and makes us a new person...a murderer who is convicted of his ways and truely repents to the Lord for forgiveness, the Holy Spirit changes him and becoming a born again Christian means that you are aware of your sinful nature and you are changed, will you still sin, yes...but the Holy Spirit living within you, gives you that desire to live for God.Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
Most people here appear to be speaking in absolutes. I do not believe in absolutes. THIS is absolutely wrong. THIS is absolutely The Way. THIS is an absolute "sin". Sorry, I love you all but humanity is not made of absolutes, in my opinion. "Absolute 1. Perfect in quality or nature; complete. 2. Not mixed; pure. Total. I simply do not agree with absolutes. Again, no offense.
This is strange but I was raised Catholic & went to Catholic schools right
through college, but find myself agreeing with everything said here by both Pam and Christiansmommy.
Maybe most Christians are more alike than they are different. :)
I belive Jesus died on the cross for my sins then after three days he rose form the dead and went to heaven to be with God.That Jesus saved me is what i belive he saved me form hell so i could go to Heaven with him.
I am learning a lot here and love hearing different opinions! I know we talked a lot about homosexuality already, just wanted to add one thing...I believe that homosexuality is/was considered a sin because a homosexual relationship cannot produce children. I could be wrong, but that's how I believed it to be.
critter crazy: I understand why you are confused, it's a difficult topic. There are SO MANY different beliefs, and it's easy to get all mixed up in it. I guess what's important is whatever you feel in your heart, and if you don't know what that is yet, keep searching, you will find it. :)
lizbud: I know what you mean, sometimes it seems like Catholic beliefs are pretty different than other types of Christians, but I think it all boils down to the same ideas. I myself am not Catholic, but i have lots of Catholic friends and in discussions we have some disagreements about certain things but mostly agree, especially on the 'important' stuff (hope that made sense) :)
I was raised Catholic, and although I don't go to church often, still consider myself Catholic. Yes, I belive in God.
I do have some problems with organized religion. I have a problem with religions saying their way is the only way. I think the truth has to be somewhere in the middle, and that one spefic religion can't be the only way to Heaven.
This is a hard topic for me because I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes I believe and sometimes I don't. Like when we were at church and some of the people started talking in tongues and stuff... I found it funny and actually felt slightly embarrassed for them :o . My mom would tell me stories of all the stuff God does and did, and some of them I don't believe. Of course I can't tell anyone in my family that because they would be mad/sad towards me.
I sometimes believe in God because of what has happened to my mom. Long story short: Marriage Problems; divorce; then randomly found a wonderful new husband. Some of the stories of recoveries I believe. It's just hard to explain in 'type-able' words.
I am still very confoozled on this subject.
I was raised Methodist and while I try to go more often I have really been striving to become more spiritual then religious.
I believe in a loving God who gave his only Son for the sins that I make in this life.
I don't have a problem with any kind of religion I do have a problem with the interpretation. My aunt and uncle (my mom's brother) belonged to a Southern Baptist church. My aunt stopped going for her own reasons, my uncle refused to stop going b/c it took so long for him to be accepted and become a member of the church. They ended up divorcing and my aunt's dad who was the minister practically disowned her and my cousins, but didn't have a problem ex- son in law (my uncle) b/c he felt that my aunt was the one in the wrong (affair). But why punish your own daughter and grandkids? Leave that to God. Then my cousin got a DUI and the entire church turned their back her and kicked her off the church membership. My uncle ended up quitting after that. And neither of my cousins have anything to do with church now b/c of it. My cousin Wes has pretty much alienated himself from his mom's family b/c of what she did and b/c of how they are towards them. My family (raised Methodist) accept them without question and love them anyway. My cousin that got the DUI (Brandi) when she got it she was hysterical thinking that we wouldn't love her anymore. We (my mom/uncle's side) didn't have a problem - no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. The other side of her family however - have treated her poorly ever since.
I just think it is so sad. It is God and only Him that can judge.
I wholeheartedly am against Jehovah Witnesses. B/c in my day to day life I have not found them to be ahhh lets just say nice people.
The only other problem I have - and I am not trying to point fingers or start a fight - I just have noticed that some people who say they are atheist are up until something happens that they want something then they want prayers for whatever reason. THAT I find hypocritical - that is no different then someone who is holier then Thou on Sunday and a hellion Monday thru Saturday in my humble opinion.
The other thing I have a problem with is if someone says they are an atheist or a pagan or whatever if they don't want me to push my views on THEM then I don't want them to push their views on ME! When I say I believe in God I'm not asking for an argument. I am stating my opinion and am entitled to it just as much as they are. :)
I am entitled to my opinion about anything just as they are!
I need to shut up now - I have edited this post like 5 times
yep. a lutheran christian... there are many things that i don't understand yet but im learning a lot in church and confirmation :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyBogart
I dont see why you dont have anything to belive in :confused: I think that it great that you are lookig into other stuff, and what other people belive in but you should realy belive in something your self because you never know something mite happen and you will have to choes you cant just say i dont know try beliveing in god roxy1507
exactly -Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
and if someone is killed b/c of what they are - Jew - or gay or has blue eyes or brown hair - that is no different then the sin they were killed for.
Excuse me? I'm a practicing pagan, that hardly means I have nothing to believe in. I don't think you read my post....I said "I believe in many deities".Quote:
Originally Posted by ROXY1507
I find it insulting that you would imply that I don't believe in anything because I don't believe in your god. My deities have been there for me when I needed them most, and that is what should matter.
I didn't quite get what she was saying either.
This was a civilized discussion I thought.
Oof, didn't mean to react so strongly. I'm still shaken from my BF crashing last night. :(
Really Roxy, where was THAT coming from?? :confused: Have you ever heard of "spell checker" by the way ;)
Nope. Never have seen a reason to. A lot of people can't do one good thing for themselves and beleive in themselves, they have to say god did it. Also the way lots of different people come up with lots of different religions. For me, I feel like the world works on pure chance.
ILoveReptiles, I agree with you. Christianity has change so much over history.
MY own oppinion and please don't be offended by this, is that god is everyone's personal imaginary friendQuote:
Originally Posted by ILoveReptiles
Oh, PAAALEASE!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Suki Wingy
I had an imaginary horse when I was a kid. I well know the difference!!!
A lot of us can do "one good thing (or more) for ourselves" but still believe in God. I know for a fact that I would never have been able to get out of the slum I was living in with no money and into a nice clean well built home with out God's help. So, while you are surley intitled to your own opinions, please don't tell me I was just imagining things!!!
PS, I still love you no matter what you believe!!! :D
I said "no" because :o untill recentally I didn't even know who he is. I never really got into religeon, so I wouldn't say I belive in any religeous things ( because I don't have a religeon ). Except for Karma, but that was because I read about it on the internet.
Wow. Ouch. :( At least I respect other opinions, thank God for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suki Wingy
I DO respect other's oppinions. That is my heartfealt oppinion and I've held back from saying it on PT for a long time. I felt like in a wonderful place like PT I should be able to share that. Notice I said is like, not is. There is a difference. Since when is my own oppinion after hearing many people state how they feel, wrong or taken offensivley? I think religion is a wonderful thing for lots of people, it gives hope and meaning. I just don't see the need for MYSELF to believe in anything, I'm happy on my own. No one can really prove the existance of or apsence of a god anyway so oppinions are all there will ever be in religion, and we must learn to respect others' oppinions and be able to speak what we truley believe and not beome offended by other's oppinions. I truley love you guys and I never wanted to hurt anyone, that's why I refrained from speaking my whole mind at first. It doesn't mean I think any less of you. One of my good friends is storngly Muslim, I belong to a UU group, so I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or anything.
I don't get it either. Your god in your mind is better than my god in my mind. :confused: And if I don't have a "god" I don't have a mind?? Or if I have several I'm mindless?? Too much for this simple mind to deal with. :rolleyes:
Oh no no, I apologize, that came out wrong, I wasn't saying that you don't respect other opinions, I meant that your last statement stung me a little but I'm ok because I can respect other opinions. Does that make sense? I wasn't trying to say anything about you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suki Wingy
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbaker
huh? Or....who were you talking to? :confused:
Given the tone of previous posts by her, I think that is exactly what she was saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
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Originally Posted by Suki Wingy
Do you mean me?Quote:
Originally Posted by shais_mom
absolutely NOT!Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
pm'ing you - if you'll accept it
Myself, I certainly believe in a higher power not necessarily one labeled with the word God. I feel spirituality is a wonderful thing but religion tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Far too many people abuse religion and twist the teachings to fit their own agendas. I've also met way too many religious people who are hypocritical and just down right nasty. I also just don't believe there is only one true religion.
Myself? Yes, I believe in God, because he loved me enough to send his son to die on the cross for me, to wipe away my sins. I love him very much.
Willie :)