Speaking of illegal immigrants...

It always astounded me when one of the most anti-immigration-of-any-sort people I have ever met was a woman by the last name of Gradziulis. (She is now deceased.) Now you know, you just know that that name was NOT present on the Mayflower, nor is it a Native American name, or even something that's been "Americanized" from being here so long. As she was more than 60 years my elder, I bit my tongue rather than pick a fight with her, but I was always astounded.

Like gun laws, immigration laws do not work if they are not enforced on anything but a sporadic basis.

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Originally Posted by Karen

Like gun laws, immigration laws do not work if they are not enforced on anything but a sporadic basis.

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I agree with this. Having worked in a Visa Section, I have my own idea of how it should work and how it does. Yes, a lot of people in search for a better life, break the law. People pay here around $6000 to get out of the country (to facilitators WHO I would call criminals). They sell everything for a chance. They are used wherever they go. They make some little money, taking care of old people - someone's parents, cleaning fish - that goes on someone's table, collecting garbage - everyone's garbage. Not many people from rich countries would take a job like that, because taking care of an incontinent old woman is not something they've been dreaming of doing. Yes, they don't pay taxes, make the ones who hire them responsible for that.

Going back to the original story...

1. If he is here illegally, then deport him and let him apply for citizenship
2. He was STILL wronged by OUR justice system and should be represented by a "free" lawyer and should have some compensation for the fact that spent 5 years of his life in prison for a crime that he didn't commit and the fact that he is here illegally shouldn't enter into the equation.
3. I'm with Richard, does he get back the synagogue that he built?
4. As far as allowing people to just come into our country without following the proper procedures...I do not,and will not, ever agree with that. We have always had policies in place to become an American citizen (after we gained our independence) and now we have so many people that it should be monitored more closely...I am not saying that the procedure should be made more difficult, I'm just saying that the tide of illegals (those not willing to follow the proper procedure) needs to be stopped. Unfortunately for the Native Americans, they have gotten the shaft at every turn by our government, yet at every pow wow we ever go to they celebrate the veterans of AMERICAN wars in the place of highest honor....
5. As for the parents who are making these false accusation should be punished with some jail time...how many lives have the destroyed? Once you have been branded a child molestor, you never lose it....even after you have been pardoned, people look at you sideways. I have known 4 or 5 people that have been accused and people still believe the worst. It also seems to me to be a form a child abuse too...(a stretch I know) when they use their child for their own financial gain.

I am currently going through the immigration process right now. I have no problem with people immigrating. What I do have a problem with is them getting a free ride because they decided not to do it legally. I could have come here illegally too but I'm not. We aren't even done with the process yet. I have a temporary visitors permit they gave me at the border while I wait for my K3 to process and then we can start the REAL immigration process. I have been seperated from my husband one week after we were married until just recently. We are spending a lot of money on this. It sucks and it's hard and tedious BUT we are still doing it LEGALLY.

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Originally Posted by sparks19

I am currently going through the immigration process right now. I have no problem with people immigrating. What I do have a problem with is them getting a free ride because they decided not to do it legally. I could have come here illegally too but I'm not. We aren't even done with the process yet. I have a temporary visitors permit they gave me at the border while I wait for my K3 to process and then we can start the REAL immigration process. I have been seperated from my husband one week after we were married until just recently. We are spending a lot of money on this. It sucks and it's hard and tedious BUT we are still doing it LEGALLY.

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GOOD FOR YOU!! And welcome to the country and may you live and be prosperous!

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Originally Posted by mugsy

GOOD FOR YOU!! And welcome to the country and may you live and be prosperous!

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I second that!!!

I'm all for immagration; after all besides the two Native Americans my family tree has people from: England, Ireland, Germany, Scotland, Wales, Spain, Poland and Rome among others, it's just those coming in illegally I have problems with. :D

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Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces

I second that!!!

I'm all for immagration; after all besides the two Native Americans my family tree has people from: England, Ireland, Germany, Scotland, Wales, Spain, Poland and Rome among others, it's just those coming in illegally I have problems with. :D

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Exactly. I think just because we want something done about illegal immigration does not mean we are against immigration. My grandmother came to Canada from England. of course that was a looooong time ago lol

I just came over from Canada lol

BTW thank you mugsy and momoffuzzyfaces :D

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Originally Posted by sparks19

What I do have a problem with is them getting a free ride because they decided not to do it legally.

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I not sure picking strawberries in the hot sun with toilet facilities three fields away is a free ride.....

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I not sure picking strawberries in the hot sun with toilet facilities three fields away is a free ride.....

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I'm referring to how a few months ago they were considering just allowing them to become legals just like that. Why? They commit a crime and then you consider rewarding them for it? Send them back, and use prisoners to do the manual labour :D

Sparks19, I would walk a mile in their shoes before I would jump to conclusions. And state them out loud. Yes, you're doing it legally, but have you thought about how much more privilleged are you for having the resources to do it legally, for having the access to all the correct information, for just coming from the "right country"?

I know many immigrants who have gotten here legally. I used to have an entire crew who worked for me made up of 99% hispanic immigrants. They came from garden spots like El Salvador, Nicaragua, Columbia, and Mexico, and were NOT wealthy or connected individuals. With one exception, they all came here legally, and the one exception applied for political refugee status on entry into the US ( he walked from El Salvador into the US, decided to take his chances with the border patrol rather than the Salvadoran press gangs). There are ways to get into the US legally, and they need to be used.

I am NOT anti immigration. I have an issue with people who are here illegally, and I have a bigger issue with the politicians in Washington who play with immigration laws to pander to constituents. Both borders are security vulnerabilities for the US, have been for years, and they need to be controlled.

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Originally Posted by Vio&Juni

Sparks19, I would walk a mile in their shoes before I would jump to conclusions. And state them out loud. Yes, you're doing it legally, but have you thought about how much more privilleged are you for having the resources to do it legally, for having the access to all the correct information, for just coming from the "right country"?

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the point is not whether you are more privileged or not the point is no matter where you come from, no matter what your financial status is or who you are, being an illegal immigrant is just that. ILLEGAL. So because I busted my hump to be more "priveleged" I should have to bust my a$$ and pay money just so I can legally be with my HUSBAND but they should just open up the mexican border and let the free flow in because they aren't as privileged?

LOL @ from the right country. They didn't exactly roll out the welcome wagon to let me in. I am STILL dealing with immigration. They go through your life with a fine toothed comb. Because I am "more privileged" I should have to deal with that but no one else should because life is tough enough?

The law is the law. Illegal is illegal. If they are going to free up immigration then they need to do it for everyone. not just the mexicans.

And like Lady's Human said, there are plenty of LEGAL immigrants here to came from more poverty than the Illlegal immigrants do. I'm sorry I just don't think that being less privileged is reason enough to be able to break the law. So if I were totally broke would it be OK to evade my taxes? Would it be ok to rob a bank? No one gets hurt right? So you have to pay a few extra bucks to pay for the taxes I'm not paying for but HEY, I am underprivileged.

Sparks...what is with your obsession and antipathy toward Mexicans??? Some left over NAFTA issues. There are illegal immigrants from Russia, Poland, VietNam, China, Canada, and every other country on earth. You seem to have a particular animus toward Mexicans. Every time you use the word "them" I cannot help but wonder....

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Sparks...what is with your obsession and antipathy toward Mexicans??? Some left over NAFTA issues. There are illegal immigrants from Russia, Poland, VietNam, China, Canada, and every other country on earth. You seem to have a particular animus toward Mexicans. Every time you use the word "them" I cannot help but wonder....

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Sorry I was talking about border security. and it was the hispanics that did the "walk off" back in May I think it was because they wanted them to decide to just let the hispanics become legals. Thats why. Just because the story I was referring to was specifically hispanics.

While we are at it...

Let's get rid of iilegal u-turns, too!

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Originally Posted by wolf_Q

FYI the mormon religion does NOT allow polygamy. If this person has multiple wives, he is not a member of the mormon church.

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I was talking about the Evil Mormons....

They don't allow it but......

Ever notice that the religions that begin with the letter "M" are a little off beat?


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My choice of religions is the cargo cult!


They worship airplanes-Flying them into buildings is a no no!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

I was talking about the Evil Mormons....

They don't allow it but......

Ever notice that the religions that begin with the letter "M" are a little off beat?

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And what's off-beat about my Methodist church? Come any Sunday, and you'll see we keep the beat very well - and we'll make sure you don't leave hungry afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Karen

And what's off-beat about my Methodist church? Come any Sunday, and you'll see we keep the beat very well - and we'll make sure you don't leave hungry afterwards.

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Great.

Another 75 points on my cholesterol score. :eek: ;)

Methodists, Muslims, Mormons, Mutts and Mugwumpery! This gets better and better ;) YEA PetTalk :D

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Great.

Another 75 points on my cholesterol score. :eek: ;)

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Now, dearie, I didn't say there was bad-for-you food, did I? There's always fruit and other good stuff, as well as the more indulgent goodies ...

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Originally Posted by lbaker

Methodists, Muslims, Mormons, Mutts and Mugwumpery! This gets better and better ;) YEA PetTalk :D

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So, you have something against the Mennonites? :D

The number of immigrants living in American households rose 16 percent over the last five years, fueled largely by recent arrivals from Mexico, according to fresh data released by the Census Bureau.
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There you have it - fresh right off the front page of the New York Times.
So why is it wrong to use the word Mexicans - when our own Census Bureau
states the fact?

I am reading an interesting book about the Mississippi River. It really is a history of the US in the first half of the 20th Century. Between 1900 and 1915, 15 million immigrants entered the US (there was not a legal vs. illegal issue then) mostly from eastern and southern Europe.

They were not always greeted with open arms. In St Louis a German-American defended Germany in an argument, a mob stripped him naked, wrapped him in an American flag, dragged him through the streets and lynched him.

The Attorney General created the American Protective League...informers who spied on neighbors and coworkers.

In West Virginia, police forced 118 immigrants (members of an early union) to kiss the American flag.

In Centralia, Washington, a union office was attacked and one of the union guys dragged off. He was beaten...all of his "three piece ensemble" cut off. Probably in a bit of pain, he asked the gang to shoot him. They did after they hung him from a bridge. Coroner ruled it suicide.

In Indiana a jury deliberated two minutes and acquitted a man for murdering an immigrant who yelled, "To hell with the United States."

Here in Orange County the Hispanic population has grown 10% in five years, the Asian population has grown 22% in that same time (statistics in this morning's Orange County Register.)

I objected to the use of the word "them."

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I objected to the use of the word "them."

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Just wondering: what would you use instead? :confused:

Laurie, if you're going to throw in Mugwumps, you CANNOT leave out the Muckrakers!

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Laurie, if you're going to throw in Mugwumps, you CANNOT leave out the Muckrakers!

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Oh man, and you will be bringing all of these (them) (those) to Thursdays
won't you? :D

I don't think the mugwumps would enjoy the bar. The muckrakers, on the other hand, would probably love it!

Isn't menopuase a religion too? :confused:

and the use of the word "them" is offensive because?

Now I know the world is getting far too PC now I can't even use simple words like them. will I have to start referring to them (sorry I mean THE mexicans) by their entire ancestry?

If I offended you by using the word them then I sincerely apologize. it was not my intention for such a word to be construed as "intolerant"

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Originally Posted by sparks19

I What I do have a problem with is them getting a free ride because they decided not to do it legally.

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No, no, no....please let me apologize for thinking that in this sentence you were in any way sterotyping or being negative against any particular group of people.....

Whatever...history keeps repeating itself.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

No, no, no....please let me apologize for thinking that in this sentence you were in any way sterotyping or being negative against any particular group of people.....

Whatever...history keeps repeating itself.

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Maybe I missed something, but I still don't see the negativity in her using 'them.' It doesn't sound to me like she was referring to a particular group....then again, I'm not worried about being PC anymore because it has gotten absolutely ridiculous, you can't say anything anymore without offending someone, so maybe I'm missing it. Or maybe I just read the whole thing wrong.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

No, no, no....please let me apologize for thinking that in this sentence you were in any way sterotyping or being negative against any particular group of people.....

Whatever...history keeps repeating itself.

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I was referring to a particular group. I was referring to Mexicans specifically because of that whole walk out thing. Do you remember that?

it wasn't just a blatant stab in the dark.

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Originally Posted by sparks19

I was referring to a particular group. I was referring to Mexicans specifically because of that whole walk out thing. Do you remember that?

it wasn't just a blatant stab in the dark.

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Yes... a number of my "born in the USA....American citizen" friends participated in it.

Assuming that by....whole walk out thing you mean the May 1 protest demonstration?

You know...I started to type an explanation of what the protest was about, but what's the point? Your mind is made up about them.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Yes... a number of my "born in the USA....American citizen" friends participated in it.

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Springsteen Rocks!


Sara.

Thank you for your support of human beings, period.

I walk the line on this issue.

my heart does feel, but my mind is outraged about the abuses to the system and the neighborhoods.


Here in the San Fernando Valley there are areas where there are three families jammed into a single family dwelling.

On the properties adjacent to my house there has been three 'add-ons'......

They are totally illega (buildings)l and I can see that the wiring and plumbing are haphazardly done

One houses a home business where cat scratching post are built.

I have cleaned up trash, bottles, papers and dirty diapers that were tossed over the fence onto my property.

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The families change every few months.

THe kids aren't in school and the property and the sheds added on to the house look worse every time someone new moves in.

Draining the wash water into my yard, tying the clothes line onto the fence and breaking out the boards are not signs of a good neighbors.

The owner of the house has admitted to renting to 'families who are here illegally".

What do I do?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Yes... a number of my "born in the USA....American citizen" friends participated in it.

Assuming that by....whole walk out thing you mean the May 1 protest demonstration?

You know...I started to type an explanation of what the protest was about, but what's the point? Your mind is made up about them.

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LOL don't judge me and tell me what I think and how I feel. I don't hate mexicans as you apparently would like to believe. I know many and have many mexican friends. HOWEVER, I am sorry but I cannot condone breaking the law no matter if you are black white brown purple green or multicoloured. I don't care. Breaking the law is breaking the law

But please sit back and continue to judge me.

I do NOT agree with giving criminals a free ride to citizenship. Sorry but if that makes me racist or prejudice or whatever else you would like to assume about me then fine but I would feel exactly the same way if my next door neighbour were an illegal immigrant.

They CHOSE to come here illegally. They should suffer the consequences of it not get expedited to citizenship.


And by THEM I mean anyone. Is that offensive to everyone too?

You see criminals.

I see people, born into grinding poverty, who make a trip that is at times very difficult and dangerous to take a job at the bottom of the barrel ...that no one else wants...to try and survive. In a place where they aren't always welcome.

Like one of the woman at the nail salon I go to. I don't know if she is legal or illegal. She told me once she was an accountant "back home" but the poverty is such...she wants more for her children...so she cuts the toenails of other women.

I see a guest worker program as a possible solution to what could be a very ugly situation on our southern border.

And I do not see a man serving five years in prison for a crime he did not commit as "just desserts."

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Your mind is made up about them.

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Ok, please explain to me why it's ok for you to use "them" but not the rest of us? Just wondering? :confused:

By the way, I have no problem with a guest worker program.

I am absolutely appalled that our government pays the way of so many illegal immigrants and has agreed to pay them Social Security (which is a benefit of American CITIZENS) and their medical care, etc. I don't care if they are white, black, brown, or green with pink stripes, if they are here illegally then they (the illegal immigrants from where ever) should be deported until such time that they can do it right. If the illegals are unwilling to do it correctly, and take the easy way out, then they need to stay where they came from until such time that they are willing to follow the steps.

As far as the May 1 walkout, we sort of giggled about it at school because it made no real difference and it didn't make a difference in business either. And the mere thought of the Mexican students in CO bringing down the American flag and running Mexican flag up the flagpole at their school about put me over the edge. IF they have such allegiance to Mexico, then STAY THERE.

However, as I said before, with the original reason for this thread, the man deserves some sort of compensation from our government since we are the people who wrongfully imprisoned him for 5 years.

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Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces

Ok, please explain to me why it's ok for you to use "them" but not the rest of us? Just wondering? :confused:

By the way, I have no problem with a guest worker program.

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it was sarcasm MOFF...but you can certainly use any words you want to use!

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

You see criminals.

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FACT (Black Letter LAW)

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I see people, born into grinding poverty, who make a trip that is at times very difficult and dangerous to take a job at the bottom of the barrel ...that no one else wants...to try and survive. In a place where they aren't always welcome.

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OPINION

Please note that if these "poor souls" came to this country LEGALLY, they would not have to live such a "hard life".

Like it or not, this is a world of absolutes. When we as a society begin to blur the line....

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Like one of the woman at the nail salon I go to. I don't know if she is legal or illegal. She told me once she was an accountant "back home" but the poverty is such...she wants more for her children...so she cuts the toenails of other women.

I see a guest worker program as a possible solution to what could be a very ugly situation on our southern border.

And I do not see a man serving five years in prison for a crime he did not commit as "just desserts."

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I also know a couple that were veterinarians in Columbia and they came to Canada LEGALLY (which is just as hard as getting to the States) and now they are cleaners in an apartment building. It sucks, but if they could do it legally then anyone can.

Now please tell me why you think ONLY the southern border should be awarded these special treatments. Why doesn't everyone deserve this? How do you know I didn't come from poverty? Just because I am from Canada? So if someone were to rob your house you wouldn't press charges if they were "under privileged" ? (In MY house, they would leave with more holes than they come in with.... Sorry, but I do not have time to run a credit check on a home intruder.) They deserve to take your hard earned money because they don't make as much as you? If this isn't how you really feel then I don't see how you can support illegal immigration. They wouldn't have to do these crap jobs if they had come here legally and were able to apply for a "regular" job. Again, coming to America illegally is CHOICE. They have the choice to come here legally or illegally. They made the wrong choice. Why should we reward that? You are pro CHOICE aren't you? Why do I not deserve to come here to LIVE with my husband without having to pay all that money and having to fill out all that paper work? Because I am white? Because I don't come from hardship? Why? Tell me. Why do they deserve to be happy when they broke the law and I deserve to pay all the money and go through the stress because I "chose" my husband. Why punish the fruits of our labour? Because I busted my a$$ to be with my husband I don't deserve it? Success should not be punished, it should be rewarded. Success isn't given out, it is earned. I think it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to give people special treatment because they don't make as much money as I do. I WORKED (LEGALLY) to get where I am. Why does that make me a bad person? Why does THAT put me in the position to be judged by YOU?

Like I said earlier... This is a world of absolute TRUTH. You may spin it as you wish but history does not lie.

A thin line there is between Law and Chaos. Our society depends on the rule of law. The more that area is greyed out.... How do YOU plan to defend yourself when law and order fails? Will you run to the "poor and oppressed" you so vainly defend?

I wait eagerly for your spin.



P.S.- No where in this thread did I say he deserved 5 years in prison. All I said was that he technically was a criminal (despite your "views" on the LAW) I even said that he may not have deserved what he got and he deserves restitution HOWEVER I think HIS country should pay for it.

P.S.S- Do you know what Mexico does to their illegal immigrants?