Hey, you're good! LOL. :eek: I like that, Ebonwolf. I bet no one has used it either. Thanks for the idea, that's an awesome name.
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Hey, you're good! LOL. :eek: I like that, Ebonwolf. I bet no one has used it either. Thanks for the idea, that's an awesome name.
Definitely!
Our dogue de bordeaux has already been bred (to a ch. female ddb) and had 9 pups, 4 of whom went to potential showing homes (if they ended up being 'perfect' breed standard). He is ch. titled and had all health testing done prior to being bred. When we move (not enough room here) we plan on looking for a female ddb and showing her and then breeding the 2 of them, if everything works out. I have a mentor (I don't think ANYONE should get into breeding without one) who's been showing/breeding for over 20 years now and we will do things right.
Although I don't think we'll have more than 3 or 4 dogues at a time :)
that's awesome that the pups turned out so nicely! i hope all your litters are that good. i had no idea you showed dogs! i agree that is is a must to have an experiaced breeder to guide you through the pregnancy, labor, and raising the pups.Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkSunshine
Yea, it was a great experience. We looked for a female that evened out his charecteristics.. (Helped his weaknesses, ect) And the pups pedigree were pretty much all red! AWESOME European bloodlines. I hope future litters turn out that great as well :)Quote:
Originally Posted by lute
We handled him ourselves (well, my husband more than I) and titled him last year.
yes..
i will be purchasing my first show pup sometime in the next year and a half (maybe longer)..it has been a dream of mine since before i could remember to breed top quality Great Danes..i have learned tons of things in the last few years, ive spent countless hours reading about breeding, raising puppies, showing, genetics ect...my first show pup is going to be a male, and i am not in any hurry to start breeding, i want to get a feel for the show world before i even think about breeing my first bitch...i have been looking for this pup for forever it seems, cant seem to find a line i like..and i personally dont like the look of the American lines.. but i have just recently narrowed it down to 4 kennels..all of which are in Europe.
Breeding is not for everyone..it takes a lot of time, money and patience. Anyone can breed a litter of puppies, but i really wish more people would breed for the right reasons..i would not even THINK about breeding my dogs unless they have earned their CH., are good breed ambassadors, have sound bodies and mind, and have been health checked, and have PASSED all tests (hips, heart, elbows, thyroid ect). Every breeding i did would have a specific purpose in mind, to better the breed.
Yes, under the name Longfellow. I wish to dedicate my life to producing sounder, healthier, typeir, friendlier, clowning dogs. My goal is to have almost every dog I produce be able to excell at road working and conformation, have reliable temperaments, all be bilateral (hearing), have excelent pigment, and for a line that breeds through. I want people to say, "That's a Longfellow dog!" just by seeing one.
Okay, I don't want to get emotional but I want to scream out of frustration and envy every time I hear of these "I guess I'm going to breed", "We're thinking about breeding but...", "I think I want to breed..." comments. The decision to bring numerous lives into this world should be well thought out and planned in advance!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lori Jordan
People breed because they LOVE THEIR BREED. They do it out of pure passion! They dedicate their lives for the procreation of a breed that they have sacrificed everything for. When I hear comments like, "Yeah, I guess we're gonna breed her after the vet gives an okay", I want to scream because they're tricking themselves into a false sense of security. Just because you go through all the vet visits and your vet gives you an okay to breed, it DOES NOT give you a license to introduce new lives into an extremely overpopulated world.
Your vet is only there to secure the life of your dog. He does not care whether your dog is mixed, pure, titled, etc. He doesn't know what pedigree your dog came from. He doesn't know whether or not your dog is a carrier of genetic diseases. He can't give you his opinion on the ethics of your breeding plans. That's YOUR job. Quite frankly, I don't think many people realize the work and passion that is put into these breedings.
Why do I envy the aforementioned "breeders"? I envy them because they get to breed without going through any of the pains that I did. I spent countless hours simply studying the history of my breed, studying names that I've never heard of so that I may appreciate the modern Pekingese. I woke up in the wee hours of the morning to drive to dog shows so that I may see which kennels were producing which dogs and which dogs were "type-y". I spent weeks and months understanding what type was! I envy those who can breed without going through the pains that I did. At the same time, I pity them because they are going to be blamed for the introduction of new lives that will very likely end up unwanted. And yet, despite all the labor that I went through, I still am not fit to breed.
*sigh* People... just leave breeding to those who are REALLY passionate about it and know what they're doing. :(
I completely agree with you, Sophie!!! Completely!
Lori Jordan, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm only honest with my concerns. I am in love with Border Collies. I have fostered a BC puppy, I have a BC, and I help out at BC Rescue events every summer. I see *countless* Border Collies who CAN work, who probably have good working lines, and who are sweet dogs, who die in shelters or cannot find a suitable working home because of the excess breeding of this breed. Please, for your dogs sake, at least get her hips tested and the same for the sire... hip dysplasia is running rampant in the breed, even in young dogs who seem ok. For a real working rancher, a dog with some working lines doesn't mean crap. If the dog does not work daily, has titles, has clearances, and is proven, the dog is not suitable for breeding - period. I've been around enough dedicated working dog people to know this as a fact. If you/your husband wants to breed her that badly, at least put fourth the effort to get her HIC and get her into herding lessons to prove her ability. I would never consider breeding a Border Collie unless they had exceptional drive, eye, and working ability, exceptional conformation, very biddable and a great temperament for the breed. Of course the necessary time, space & money is needed, but to breed healthy pups you need more than "shots". If everyone who could afford shots and a kennel bred their friendly dogs with "good lines", imagine the MILLIONS more homeless dogs that would be in this world. Gonzo is registered & has notable lines, has been through more herding & dog sports than your bitch has, and has decent conformation... does this mean I should've bypassed neutering him and bred him? No. Why? Only the best, of the best dogs need be bred when 4-6 million die every year. I do not consider him exceptional for his breed, at all. By exceptional I mean able to work all day, able to independently work livestock out of range of the handler, able to trial & take on unexpected events in training or on their own property, beautiful structure and excellent hips & elbows, superb, confident, loyal temperament that is called for in the breed, and superior intelligence that allows them to go from herding to flyball to obedience to hanging out with their family. Imagine if everyone just bred their dogs based on lineage. Sure, it's an indicator, but the only real indicator is working the dog yourself and proving she works like a Border Collie; which is most important in the breed, that they work like a BC should. If everyone bred based on lines alone and not working merit, how many dogs with poor drive (such as chasing instead of circling) would end up being bred, or dogs with no eye or dogs with very little drive at all? I also hope you'll be selling pet pups on spay/neuter & return contracts.
That is being honest & up front about the problems facing our country and what responsible dog owners NEED TO do about it, if it seems "negative", well, overpopulation and backyard breeding isn't exactly a positive thing.
No never, i have no desire to add to the canine population.
What working experience has Maggie had? having come from good working lines does not mean much.. My Elvis comes from some awesome working lines and does not work that well (Probably lack of time on my part aswell). There are so many wonderful working dogs being PTS every single day.Quote:
I'd say yes we might be breeding Maggy in the spring
And then there are the people who are passionate about their working dogs and improving working ability, they put their hearts and souls into what they do.
If you are serious get out there and get Maggy working, go buy her a farm and then consider it ;).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bckrazy
You voice this very well, and I agree with you, unfortuantely you are wasting your breath=(
bckrazy, i agree with you 100%!!! you said that very well!
Giselle, VERY well said! it takes A LOT to breed right and it's not something you can just hop into. i too have researched and gotten up at the wee hours of the morning just to go "watch" a breed ring. not compeat. while my family moved to IN i stayed in TN to help welp a litter of puppies to further my knowledge. most siberian people ask me why i'm getting Gracie spayed. they say i can still get a nice litter out of her. i don't want to have my first litter from an unshowable dog. i also think i have a lot more to learn before i breed any dog.
hopefully Lori Jordan or anyone else will take what you've both said into consideration.
I think that was an ignorant remark,She is in flyball and agility,here in Canada Border Collies,are not really show dogs to begin with.A dog does not need to be a show dog to be qualified to breed.And what would she bring to the breed,she is a hard working dog it's in her i have never trained her to herd,I let her out in my Dad's field you should of seen what this dog can do it's in her,And it really don't matter whether you think this or not not one of us would have our dogs if they were not breed,What i choose to do should not be turned into negativity.I like how some get good replies on Breeding and i get NO NO NO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxyluvsme13
I have not once said anything about not loving the breed obviously i do or i would not have 2 border Collies,I think when someone mentions something as big is this if they have nothing positive to say they should leave the subject alone,I have seen others in this thread that have been breeding and get pats on the back.
As i said it's in my husbands hands not mine so don't judge me.And if he chooses i ain't going to Bash him for it,I have been in this before we both know what we are doing,And as too the vet checks,i realize and know what to do i guess people have not been reading what i have been writing i would never put my Maggy in harms way.
Maggy and the stud dog have both been cleared,She will be going in again before breeding is even an option some people do not realize i've done this before.........I know what i'm doing
Oh! Maggy is in flyball and agility! I did not know that! Does she have any titles?
"I really don't think it's about Breed worthy"
From that, I understandably got the idea that you were breeding her without proving her as worthy of passing on her genes. Please do explain further next time, so that there is no need for anyone to make assumptions, which I guess I did and I apologize. =P
I know you love BC's, I just mentioned that because I totally adore the breed as well, and I hate what BYB's who never even think to work or test their dogs are doing to the breed. I basically posted thinking that Maggy had not been tested or worked, as you haven't posted anything about that at all. I had no idea she was in Flyball or Agility. I also had no idea about her hips & elbows being cleared, because you mentioned in another a post that you didn't do so for the GSD's your bred, so I made another assumption. Just fyi, Gonzo can also go "work" some livestock, I think any decently bred BC can... it's different between a BC who can round up livestock instinctively (which I've seen 6 month old puppies doing with no training) - and a dog who can do a great out-run, take commands from a distance and work independently, who has been trained and worked with to do so. IMO, only the BC's who work regularly and can excel at advanced trials should be bred, because they need to be able to perform the work that they were bred to do. I understand your view on not showing working dogs, even though it's often advised to at least have conformation that fits the standard, and totally respect that. But, if you are not breeding for conformation, at least breed for an excellent working dog who has been trialed and proven. About "others" who breed their dogs, I think some of them do get encouragement, because some breeders on PT have planned their litters and posted about plans literally years in advance, and we've taken the trip with them through health certs, working, sports, conformation, etc. If you're asking why we all support Jordan, she didn't just come on saying "Well... I might breed Visa, it depends. meh." :p She explained how she was going through dog sports, herding, & conformation with Visa, her researching studs, her health testing, everything. So, yes, we do feel like we know a lot more about Jordan and her breeding ethics than what I could collect from your brief & indecisive post. Just for the record, I would tell the exact same thing to anyone posting that they're thinking about breeding with no background info, no matter who they were.
I highly recommend the boards at http://bordercollie.org, there is several great BC breeders there, and lots of info on trialing & working dogs. Really great, informative posts even to just scan through.
yep, thats one of the reasons I chose Misty, as a possable foundation bitch. but she still needs to finish her health clearences, and show me more proof of her working ability, professional sheepdog trialers and farmers have told me that Misty is better then average, I dont know, I made the mistake of working Happy on sheep first, and seeing as she is absolutly incredable and the shephereds and trialers all looked on in disbelief...well it kinda made Misty look a lot worse then she actually is lol
No I really don't see myself ever breeding dogs. With such a huge pet overpopulation already, I wouldn't want to add to that. I do have one breed that I absolutely love and would like to devote all my time to (siberian huskies) but I would rather do that with having a Siberian Husky rescue. :)
Plus I really can't see myself having unspayed and unneutered dogs running around the house, just not for me!
I never ment it like that just a snappy remark that came my way.....Quote:
Originally Posted by bckrazy
Not of as of yet we have missed alot i have some pictures.She is up against dogs that have done this since the age of 6 months she knows what she is doing it's amazing how fast they pic up.We have a big meet mid August we will be attending in New York she is third in the class we are in now.She enjoys Flyball more than agility but she does well at both!Quote:
Originally Posted by k9krazee
When i say we might that means we might,Who knows what the future will bring.I am not a backyard breeder no shape or form.This is all in my Husbands hands he has been brought up breeding,His mother breeds shelties has for 30 years he was raised around kennels and also help run the boarding and grooming.He is very knowlegeable in that part.When we first purchased Maggy our Contract the breeding part was put on hold Dennis,our Breeder was not sure if he would want to Breed her or not so she was a co-owned dog you could pretty much call it.He was into Breeding for 37 years Border Collies and Golden Retrievers,Very good man.His wife became sick with cancer so he had to tend to her and give his dogs up.We were offered Maggy's Dad Brendan,He was six years old Stud since 2.I thought about it but at that time Maggy was in heat and i did not want to take a chance,But Brendan is having his last litter and im excited to see them,He is such a loving dog but 6 years old not fixed my animals are all in the house and he was pretty much an outdoor dog...just would not mix,I wish him the best though.
Dennis worked with a gentleman out of Quebec who has the stud dog here is a pic of Charger.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i79/JamieLori/Fly.jpg
He is on the left smiling lol he looks like he has attitude but is a gentle giant.
If I had the money I would probly breed a dog who is kind of rare and that you almost NEVER see in shelters. Like I wouldnt do something common like a Golden retriver or German Sheperd cause there are tons in shelters already and I wouldnt have the money to get into the joint problems of the Sheperds.
But something like the Chinese Crested that you dont see much in shelters I would maybe breed. Or English Bull Terriers cause its SOOOO HARD to find a desent or any breeder for the matter in Canada espcially ONT there are a few in BC but not many.
I doubt I'll ever get into breeding. It takes ALOT of time and money, and I don't know if I'd ever have that kind of time for showing and other things. If I ever did go into breeding it would be with Cocker Spaniels.
Maybe, one day, Lundehunds or Affens.
Breeding isn't something I see myself doing. It has never really interested me, so I don't think I'll be breeding anytime soon. Like others have said, I would rather adopt a dog. Just walking past all the dogs at the shelter that are begging for homes makes me want to someday be able give them a chance. :)