As I said, I DO NOT aprove of imbreed animals like this. Its wrong & sick!Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
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As I said, I DO NOT aprove of imbreed animals like this. Its wrong & sick!Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
So you won't be taking him to the vet? How will he be PTS? :(Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
Where did I say I wasn't taking him to the vets to be PTS?Quote:
Originally Posted by k9krazee
Isn't there only 1 way to put an animal to sleep? reason its called PTS
I don't put feeders to sleep, I kill feeders.
Oh, well you never answered the original question...just said that you don't approve of inbred animals, so I was under the impression he was not going to see a vet. Sorry.
This is so sad. Inbred or not it's still an animal with feelings. He deserves vet care. If the vet said he was in pain and there is no hope then fine, put him to sleep, but it seems no action has been taken. If I found out one of my animals was inbred the wrong way (there are good ways to inbreed rats I've been told) the only thing I would do is keep him/her from mating. I treat my animals like family and it sounds like this rat is getting treated as an object. It's sad. :(
Can you clarify this a bit? Does this mean if one of the babies was sick you'd treat it different than if it was a pet? Pets get put to sleep and feeders just get killed? If so that is one of the worst things I have heard in a while. They are animals regardless if they are food or not. They deserve respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
Why have you NOT taken him to the vet? :( :mad: I'm sorry but this has me steamed! How sad for this poor rat. You are just letting him suffer! He's probably sneezing stuff out because you have avoided getting him the proper vet care. Just because he is inbred (it's not that bad with rats if you would listen and do research. Ask many of the top breeders. A lot of the traits we have are set through inbreeding/linebreeding) does not mean this poor guy has to have his tombstone chizzled already. You are very irresponsible. Just so you know it's very common for male rats to have an orangish color to their skin. It's caused by the protein the skin creates, and males just happen to have more than females. If they have too much protein in their diet it gets worse. It can also be caused from having a dirty cage. Also, if I was that rat and had such a horrible life living in that house I'd probably be a bit aggressive too. Just a thought. Maybe you should take care of your animals.
PTS is death by a vet, as in the animal is given a shot to put it to sleep & then a shot to kill it in its sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
You cannot PTS a feeder as the toxins in its body will go into the animal feeding on it (very bad!), there for it is killed. Cows, chicken, pigs, deer are all killed.. pets are PTS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
I understand now. I thought you meant feeders that were sick and weren't going to be used as food would just be killed.
I'm sorry, but I still feel that these feeders could be cared for better.
Grissim isn't a feeder (you don't name feeders, that would be mentaly cruel). Hes a pet (I play with them, hold them, let them run about outside the cage, name them) that I use in breeding.. well not anymore (breeding wise).Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
Depending on how ill the rat is, depends on if it needs to be PTS or not. I will not give my rats drugs to cure an illness. I will remove the rat, make it comfy, I'll give it herbals, but not drugs. I'm 100% against pumping feeder animals (including farm animals) full of drugs, as it goes into the being eatting it & then causes issues (cancers, etc) in the being. Biggest reason I wont eat beef from the usa anymore.. Canada's beef (& milk products) isn't much better, but the usa's meet still has more meds & crap pumped into the cows!
I support natural farms 100% & do the same with my feeder animals (the parents of the feeders). I will use polysporn & herbals, but if the animal isn't able to recover, then its PTS.
I myself do everything I can NOT to take drugs. I will put up with a cold & they usually last about a month for me & then thats it, no more colds for that year. Now that I've been fighting all my illnesses on my own, its rare that I get really sick like I use to when I would take meds.
So no I'm not being irresponsible with these rats, you just have a different opinion on this whole drug issue (Organic).
I understand you are saying you don't beleive in pumping feeders full of drugs, that could make the other animals they are fed to ill, but at the same time you say Grissim is a pet, not a feeder, and won't be used for breeding, so why woudl it be bad to try to get him help rather than suffer?? If he's that sick why not either put him to sleep NOW, or get him vet care so he doesn't linger in that state and just slowly get worse until he dies. That seems cruel to just let him waste away rather than putting him down now, or getting him vet care. Just wondering why not, since he's not a feeder.
But you said Grissim isn't a feeder. Also you said he's inbred so you won't be breeding him anymore. What's the harm of treating him with meds if it will save his life? He isn't going to be eaten and he isn't going to father anymore babies. It sounds to me like you are making up excuses not to take him to the vet.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
Also, how do you make a rat "comfy" without meds?
I'm still very concerned...I'm still miffed on this one. Killed how, exactly? Feeder or not, an animal deserves a humane death. Surely putting one feeder to sleep would not cause the animal who would have eaten it to starve, seeing as you have bred feeder rats already. Personally, I do not squash spiders, flies or wasps, and definitely could not 'kill' a rat.Quote:
You cannot PTS a feeder as the toxins in its body will go into the animal feeding on it (very bad!), there for it is killed. Cows, chicken, pigs, deer are all killed.. pets are PTS...
I just have to ask, what size cage are all these animals in? How often do you clean it? I really do not want these creatures to be stored up like sausages. I am glad that you disagree with some of the drugs used in the meat trade, but please, I think everyone here wants better care for your feeders. Your turtle eats them, so you owe them. Everything has a right to live, so perhaps if we begin to hear more positive things about your rats rather than you telling us that your putting one down simply because its inbred, you can expect more helpful and kinder comments.
Please, if I could show you that I'm on my knees I would. PLEASE please please take a little more responsibility for these animals. They've been on my mind for the past few days.
I'm going to hug Tia and remind her what a beautiful girl she is.
It was complicated (not getting into that), but Grissim will be PTS this afternoon. Hes already gone from my care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vela
(I swear I said this already) I do kill the feeders as humanily as possible. I spent 6 months working, planing & researching the best way for an animal to be killed. My method causes very little to no stress & almost no fear. No pain is involved either & its a more natural way to die. I cannot & will not explain how I do it in a post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
Do I really have to repeat that Grissim is being PTS again? PLEASE read all the posts (everyones posts too, so mine make some sence.. or so I hope).
The rats are in a 4foot by 2 foot by 2 foot cage. Its a rabbit cage, so there are bars on the sides & top & its a plastic bottom, so there is no worry about bubble foot.
I clean the cage between 2-3 times a week. When the babies are born the nests will be cleaned daily. I clean the cage in my Shower stall with bleach & hot water (bleach works best in hot water). Then I spray the bottom of the cage with the lice spray. Add lots of Aspen bedding, Dump the food in the large dog bowl, scrub it with bleach & hot water in my bathroom sink, & add fresh food when its dry(if the dish is clean & they didn't fill it with shavings, then I wait till the next cleaning). I change their 3 water bottles everyday & wash them with hot water only, but use bleach & hot water on the metal spout thingy.
the 2ed cage is a Hamster cage. its strictly a temp cage. I put all the rats in it to clean out the big cage. They are in it for about 30-60 mins. Thats when I usually spoil them with a fancy drink from the mini hamster water bottle (the bottle is useless other wise) & give them a slice of bread (the heal, I hate the heal).
I play with them every night before I go to bed (thats also when i do the water changes). Shawn is still scared of them so he will only pet Vodka on the head with his bare finger, but he will make baby sounds to her & always wants to spoil her with a carrot.
Once a rat is called a pet/breeder, they will never become food for another pet, thats why I name them & play with them.
Vodka
Vixy
Squeeks (thinking of changing her name as shes quiet now)
Takelia (sp I have no idea)
Baileys
This is terrible. You are putting down your pet rat and show no sadness in ANY of your posts! It's mentioned only as a matter of fact and that's it. This is so ridiculous. You have no right to be a pet owner or to consider yourself a pet lover. :mad: You are not handling this right. I'm done posting and reading. I feel bad for the rats that are in your so called care.
And that cage is not adequate for 50+ rats. Not even close.
According to the rat cage calculator that cage should comfortably house 8 rats! EIGHT! Not 50+
Here's the link. Rat Cage Calculator
I am in complete agreement. Tia, on her own, is in a bigger cage than that!Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
And actually, I have read all the posts, I've just not found an adequate answer. To say that you won't explain how you plan to deal with the rats which don't quite reach standard leaves me very suspicious indeed.
BTW, it's bumble foot.
The cage is for 5 females! The babies will only be there a short time, until they are removed. The rats sleep in their boxes, so having the babies staying in there is not making any difference in the size of the cage.. its not like they'll be running around or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
As I SAID before (again with me repeating things!!). I already delt with Rats in the SAME state as Grissim & with all the meds & VET Bills, the rat still suffered in the end! I AM NOT PUTTING ANOTHER PET THROUGH THAT!! ITS WRONG TO MAKE IT SUFFER JUST BECAUSE I WANT IT AS A PET & WANT IT ON THIS EARTH LONGER, ITS NOT MY RIGHT (yes I'm yelling now, because people aren't reading everything!)!!!
Ummmm I'm typing on the internet..soo.. How on earth do you know how I feel?? I don't cry for all the deaths of my pets. Do I feel sad YES, do I feel like crying NO, did I take my time & decide what was best & what needed to be done YES.
Guess I have to type this in more detail for you, I thought you understood how an animal was PTS (as I already said its done by the vet in an earlier post).Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
Grissim will be handed over to a vet. The vet will bring Grissim into the back. The vet will stick a needle in Grissim's belly & inject him with a drug that'll put him to sleep. Then they'll stick him with a 2ed needle in the belly that'll stop his heat & kill him while he's sleeping so he wont feel any pain when his heart stops beating.
I so didn't want to type that kind of detail!
Just as your anger gets through on the Internet so does your lack of remorse.
Yes I am reading ALL the posts and your answers are simply not good enough and some of the questions are conveniently not answered. It’s obvious this is all just to save money. Money on buying feeders and money saved by not taking sick pets for vet care. If you can't afford the proper care for ALL of your animals then you have no right to have them.
I think Miss Z's concern is for the feeders as well as Grissim. I'm pretty sure she knows how a vet puts an animal to sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
Wait, your posts do not make sense. In a previous post, you differenciated between putting an animal down and how you plan to 'kill' Grissim. Yes, I do understand how an animal is PTS, thank-you-very-much, and from the sounds of it, I know a heck of a lot more about rats than you do evidently. I hate to be so accusing but this whole thread has hit a raw nerve for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
And if you don't cry at the death of your pets, I pity you. Really, I do.
What questions did I miss?? I know I ignored some as I had already answered them & felt no need to retype the answer, unless asked again. I'm doin gmy best to answer, if I missed a few, I'm sorry, I'm trying to type, chat & work all at the sametime & work & shat comes first before making sure I answered every single question, esp when I though I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
ummm.. There is NO way you read & understood everything, cause you would not have said I'm out to save money on feeders. I spend WAY more money on careing for the rats then buying them at the store! 1 feeder is about a 1.00, so thats gonna cost me about 4.00/month to buy feeders in a store. I'm sorry but i spend WAY more then 4.00 on my rats/month! I breed so I know whats going into my Turtle. I don't want crap going into him that'll kill him!
I'm spending 60.00 to have Grissim PTS & I'll pay that 100 times if I have to!!
I do NOT want to watch another rat pissing & craping all over the place while having seazures because of the meds they have to take, How the hell is that treatment!!! I went through 2 rats that acted like that. I WILL NOT do it again.. I cannot put a pet through that kind of hell just to keep it longer & to please people like you. How much more details do you want?? Do you need to know the colour of the urin, how much crap come out while the rat is shaking all over the place or what colour the skin turns when they stop breathing ?! For gods sake I said I have seen them go through hell through the treatments!! I was trying to spare you the horrible details!! I also don't want to see that ever again!! If you can handle your pet suffering through a treatment like that, then fine thats your choice to watch your pet look like that.. for me, NO WAY IN HELL. I'd rather bring it to the vet & have it PTS so it doesn't have to suffer!
Perhaps if your first lot of rats was so stressful why on earth did you decide to risk that happening again?
I didn't say I was killing Grissim, I said I was going to get him PTS. I said Grissim isn't a feeder, hes a pet/breeder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
Feeders are killed & pets are PTS. I also said I'm NOT going into details on how to kill a feeder & that I will not post regardless.
Why do I have to cry? Why can't I just feel sad & feel like crap?
What risk? I'm having Grissim PTS. I'm not risking anything, I'm avoiding that horrible risk, as its not worth the suffering to the pet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
I need to cool down as I'm getting a little mouthy on here.. I will say I'm sorry for getting a little to mouthy/snappy & well.. rude! I'm sorry for that.
I meant the risk of bringing many new rats into the world, breeding is a stressful business for animals and unfortunately some breeding animals suffer terrible diseases. If it was so upsetting for you first time around then deciding to leap straight back into getting 5 or so rats and breeding them is pretty risky for them and you IMO.
I hope you understand that our concerns are about the animals. I don't dislike you. I just want every single animal to be treated with the most respect that they can.
Also, Grissim aside, I'm finding it troubling that you can't tell us how the others are "killed." You described it as the most humane way possible. If that's the fact then it shouldn't me an issue how they are "killed."
My first rats didn't get sick from breeding. They were already sick when i got them & then I treated them when I learned of them being sick. I thought the first rats reaction was a shit happends, but when the 2ed rat I had treated did the same thing, I swore I'll never do that treatment again & I plan to keep it that way. I have NEVER made an animal sick, I have gotten them sick. When I got the 2ed rat that was sick, I knew she was sick, thats why i took her in. After her reaction to the treatment, I knew it wasn't worth the suffering, as both rats died anyways (I'd rather them die sick, then suffering in hell.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
Well I am glad to hear that Grissim is being PTS today, just so he is no longer suffering. I don't know much about rats and medications but if it's that bad off then it's best he is is PTS so he doesn't have to feel that kind of pain. Just glad you are doing it now and not letting him go on so sickly.
That's still troubling me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
I've really got to try to stay off of this thread now. I don't want to say things I may regret, and I'm so sick of argueing, I really don't want to and I've tried to understand what everyone is saying, but on this one I'm so worried. I can't lose any more sleep over the welfare of these animals.
loosing sleep over what? that I'd rather save my pet rat from horrible suffering? or that I have a big ugly pet thats gonna eat something cute & fuzzy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
What have I not answered thats making you loose sleep over?
They have already explained to you what you have not answered.
If the way you "KILL" your feeders is SO humane, then why can't you explain how you "KILL" them? If it was indeed humane, you wouldn't have a problem posting the explanation.
MyPeanuts and Miss Z you guys are asking how is she killing the feeders, do you really want to know? No matter what you say shes not gonna change her mind its useless! so do you still really wanna know how they are killed? it will break your hearts no I don't know either and I don't want to know. Please just let it be. :(
OK, at which point did I condemn your turtle for sparking this controversy? I understand the law of nature quite well. I would have far less of a problem if I thought you were breeding responsibly, but unfortunately I don't. This whole thread was started in a very light-hearted manner, it's only turned serious when people such as myself began to raise questions. How can I not feel guilty when my own rat lives such a good life, and I feel that far away there are others like her who are cramped up and will be disposed of in a way you consider humane but will not tell us about?Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
I agree with Miss Z completely, you have no right to treat animals in this way:mad:
Miss Z & molucass, your really starting to creep me out! in a sick & twisted way too!
Why do you want such details?
I don't know about you, but I'm 99.99% sure others do not want to know that. Just like they don't want to know all the details on how their juicy burger became a juicy burger. I know how my burger became a burger & honestly I could have lived happly without that tidbit of info. I'm more interested in the care of the animal then its death. Death is death(yes there is a right & wrong way, but in the end its still death). its sad but needed & the end result is the same, it ends up on my plate & then I eat it.
If you think I enjoy killing critters then you don't know me at all. I hate that part. Thats why I spent 6 months researching the best & most humaine way to do it. I even had help from my biology & chemistry teachers (I did this 7yrs ago, its not recent as I haven't been in high school for about 6yrs). I didn't just wake up one day & say HEY I wanna kill a mouse/rat & feed it to my pet! Sorry but thats NOT me.
I will admit that when I first started I did a lot of the wrong care. I didn't know there were bad & good shavings, or bad & good cages (tanks vs wire walls vs wire bottoms). I assumed the pet stores knew what they were doing. I learned all the proper care here on PT. I've always wanted the best care for my rats & thats WHY I made this thread & tried to answer all questions, as I knew people would want precise details on their care. I have & DO spend a lot of money on the rats. & yes I do get excited when my rats have babies, its excited (woman thing), I try to enjoy the moment & not think of what I have to do later. As i do not enjoy it - I think I would have to be one sick *&@$%# to enjoy that!
When I had Oscar (a fish) I spent OVER 1000.00 on her in 1 year! & several hundered dollars everyother year for 4years (just on meds, not regular fish care). Oscar was imbred (just my luck, grrr.. another example of an imbred pet suffering.. see why I'm SOOO against it!) & she started have problems from day 1. I did everything I could to save her. She would have good & bad months, or good & BAD years. When Oscar got sick for the last time, I looked at her & decided that the non-stop treatments wern't worth her suffering & I was beeing greedy for keeping her alive. She suffered for 5yrs (not all the time, only when she fell ill & then the meds made her depressed.. yes Oscars get depressed!!). Right after my 23rd birthday I ended her suffering. If I ever get another Oscar & they show the same symptoms/illness, I'll treat them once & if they get it again, then I'll end the suffering. I don't want to be greedy when it comes to an animals suffering. they have to come first. I can always afford the vet bill (I don't do over time for fun you know), but many times its not worth the prolonged suffering. I am all for human's deciding when enough is enough(as in humans killing themselves or being PTS due to suffering). My friend ended his horrible suffering (there was NO hope for him) & I do not hate him for it. I feel good that his suffering is over & his family no longer has to watch him suffering.
I really do hate it when people assume I'm a monster for killing feeders or ending a pets suffering by it being PTS. Its really not fair to assume & its not safe/right to assume either, as I have learned.
Please stop asking how the feeders are killed, I cannot & will not post it. If you have other questions on the care I will answer those (you ask rudely(or in an attacking mannor) I'll answer rudely.. I'm only human I can only be polite for so long).
in what way may I ask?Quote:
Originally Posted by midget gem
so I know where your coming from, so I can acutally reply to your post.