What do you guys think of this?

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Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
I'm not going to get into this heavy but I do NOT agree with crating the dog all the time. This is not a positive reinforcement training exercise. It is very negative and in my opinion, abusive.

You need to do specific desensitation exercises with her with triggers that make her aggressive. I just kind of wonder (since we're talking about a black lab) what happened in Josies past to create this aggression? This is not your typical lab behavior. :confused:

My suggestion would be to find a behaviorist who uses positive methods. This guy sounds a little too radical in negative training methods for me.

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She never use to be like this, however, I took her to our dog park a lot, and 3 different trainers have told me that causes a lot of problems for dogs (like causing aggression..)

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Originally posted by slleipnir
That's what I thought. It seems mean...

He says by crating them, you keep them out of trouble and by doing that you're not setting them up for failure. For example, you don't want them on the couch, so if they're locked up, they can't...etc...I duno. I just can't see that I'd ever do that.

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I don't think you're setting them up for success either by having them in a crate all day. When she does come out of the crate (she will have too sometime) what happens if she gets on the couch? Does she get punished? I think, If you don't want her on the couch, then teach her not to go on the couch. If you don't want her on the bed, then teach her not to go on the bed.

Just remember one thing.... Josie is not use to being confined all day and to do so at 6 years of age would be unfair to her. She will not understand what she did to create this harsh change. She can not reason "I'm in my crate so I won't experience failure." Dogs learn more completely if it is a positive training environment and they are rewarded for doing the right thing instead of being punished for doing the wrong thing! If you can't work on desensitation skills with her then before crating her all day, I would just keep her out of the dog park.

I know you really are seeking help but this guy is leading you in the wrong direction. Josie is a sweetheart and she should be loved and rewarded for doing right. Not punished to prevent her from possibly doing something wrong. I am feeling so angry at this guy for even suggesting she be confined all day to her crate that I'd like to punch him in the nose! Now I'm getting aggressive. :mad: I'm glad you are not going to listen to him in this area!

I still think something must of happened at the park to get her to be on the aggressive side. I guess from your post I'm thinking really really aggressive problem. I can't visualize it from Josie and the posts I've seen you make through out her life. I was away for awhile though so I might of missed something. :(

I'm confused by it all. I mean, the guy seems to know what he's talking about, and he has some very loyal dogs...but I told him I LIKE having them come up to ME to get pats, I LIKE having them run around.....

They do get to come out, to eat, potty, and play. So they're not there all day long, just a lot longer then I'd want them there I guess. I don't feel comfortable doing it, so I thought I'd get others opinions too....

He's not mean other than that though. He doesn't yell/or hit the dogs in anyway. If they misbehave, they get a stern 'Nooo' and they get a quick correction on the collar (whatever the dog needs). They don't get punished for misbehaving and all that. I totally agree with everything he teaches me, BUT the crate. It seems wrong to me...but I'm still learning this stuff, I tend to believe what people like him say thinking 'they know best'..why I wanted opinions, again lol

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Originally posted by slleipnir
If they misbehave, they get a stern 'Nooo' and they get a quick correction on the collar (whatever the dog needs).

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I'm very familiar with what you are saying. I learned to train dogs originally with the pop and choke method many many years ago. However, I have since come to realize that this is not the best way to train a dog. They learn more quickly and thoroughly with positive training methods such as clicker training or just rewards based training for doing correct behaviors.

The main problem with pop and choke is that the dog is learning how to avoid being choked instead of realizing if I do this it makes her happy and I get a treat! The behavior in the long run is learned instead of learning how to avoid a correction. The biggest problem I find with positive training is that some owners never fade the reward from the teaching scenario and the dog only performs when food is around. The reward is only used for shaping the behavior and then only used occassionally to reinforce the behavior. It is faded gradually though, not abruptly.

My suggestion would be to find a trainer who uses only positive training techniques. You and Josie will both be a lot happier in the long run! This guy you are going to now is still in the dark about new training methods.