I don't see the problem with an unregistered nurse or tech doing work so long as they have the training...
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I don't see the problem with an unregistered nurse or tech doing work so long as they have the training...
:rolleyes:I've seen similar comments like this all over the place and I've come to the conclusion that the area I live in must either have more than their share of good vets (cares for the animals) or everyone else has more than their share of bad vets (money grubbers).Quote:
Originally Posted by luckies4me
Not having worked at all the other vet hospitals and clinics in our area, but just going by what me, my family, and our clients have experienced at other vet hospitals & clinics in our area...I'd have to say our ratio is more like 40-60% or better, meaning 40% that may be gouging prices with varying levels of care for the patients, and 60% that care for the animals and only charge what is necessary to stay in business and make a living, going above and beyond in patient care.
From all the bad vet things I've read around here, I hope I never have to move out of the area because I don't think I could handle the horror stories I hear about on here about vets. Not that we don't have a few of them in our area too, but not so many of them compared to the flip side of the coin.
On the vet tech thing...
I've only ever been called a tech by the big boss man when it comes to seminars. Some seminars I'm very interested in, or the boss thinks would be beneficial to me, but are limited to techs & vets only. So in those situations for a day I get to be a tech in name only. :D Once in a while some of the info is a bit over my head but mostly I understand the seminars and get alot of useful info from them.
On the job I'm often a 'jack of all trades' meaning I help out all over the hospital if we are short handed, someone is sick or on vacation or something like that.
Most of the time I'm just doing vet assistant stuff which does include helping in surgery. I can't operate on anything, I can't do dental cleanings, I can't do the anesthesia, I can't do blood draws. I can't do basically anything involving poking or cutting into an animal with anything, well except for nail clippers on toenails or the hair clipper on fur. I do get to clean out ears on anesthetized animals though, just the basic cleaning like you'd do at home, I can't do ear flushes or stuff like that. Other times I only assist in the exam rooms or the lab. On a good day I get to do all at some point during my shift.
Of course there are days I get the people who keep insisting I look at their animal for what they percieve is a 'simple' thing (which usually isn't) and I have to keep telling them, 'trust me you don't want ME diagnosing/treating your animal, I'm not qualified, you'll have to wait for an open appt. slot for the vet to see the pet'. :rolleyes:
Although I confess when I'm working the lab or exam room I like to guess what the problem is just to see if I'm right. Sometimes I'm dead on including which med to treat, sometimes I'm so far off it reinforces the reason I'm not a vet! LOL
My question though is how do you KNOW they have the training if they've never taken classes and/or aren't certified to be doing what they're doing? For all you know they could be learning/practicing on your animals. What if they make a mistake? I'm aware that anyone, with or without training, can make a mistake, but it's less likely to happen to someone who's taken classes and had instruction versus someone just shadowing a vet. Does that make sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by slleipnir
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika
Actually, it is alot more than simply claiming something went wrong. You have to prove negligence, and that isn't a walk in the park. Second, in *most* states, the amount of your malpractice claim is directly linked to the cost of your animal. Nice, eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckies4me
Most people that I know NEED to make money. Most people I know would prefer to make more money than less money. How does that make it 'horrible'? Frankly, with the cost of any advanced degree, how do you see vets, in particular, doing it for the money? My male cat, Dakota, just spent two whole nights, and three days, at the clinic. His bill? $389. Two weeks ago, he had major, life altering surgery, and was in the clinic for 5 days, with supportive care. His bill? $2000. Not exactly a ton of money, considering he was on oxygen, had surgery with a specialist and a support person, not to mention the nursing care he received pre and post op. I have known more than my fair share of vets, sadly. Not a single one of the ones I know were living the life of the rich and famous. I have lived in 3 states over the course of my 42 years, and frankly, don't see your claim that they are doing it for the money.
Even if they WERE doing it for the money, how is that wrong? Big secret- I work for the money! I want MORE money. I went to law school knowing I stood to make more money as a lawyer than I would as a claims adjuster (my former position). Why is that wrong? I have bills, vet bills included, just like everyone else.
You seem to run into some totally "unique" situations.
You do bring an interesting persepctive Johanna. Recently there was a thread on here about "do you work for the money or for the love of what you do?" Many people said "it's just a job."
I have a brother and a sister-in-law who are vets. Being a vet is not necessarily the road to riches. They went to college for seven plus years --...($$$!)... studying biology, chemistry, mathematics, anatomy etc...and have...like all of us...bills, mortgage, food, etc.
They went into the field because they love working with animals. But they still have to make a living. The average salary for a vet is not any higher than a professional with equivalent education and lower than many corporate jobs.
There are bad vets...doctors, dentist, lawyers and file clerks.
But to suggest that it is horrible that 90% of vets went into the field for money is silly at best.
As a registered nurse I think of it in terms of my job. Those nice girls at a doctors office are NOT nurses (for the most part), at best their medical assistants with some training. They know there basic skills (though many don't take blood pressures correctly IMO) but they don't know why they do the things they do. There is theory and research behind everything in the medical field, things you learn with a formal education. Just because you can perform the manual task doesn't mean you understand why your doing it or what your looking for. Would I want them doing much more than drawing blood from me? No.
I assume if a VT performs a spay (completely negligent and illegal on the vets part) they know the procedure but do they know all the rules of sterile technique (trust me there is quite a few) and the intricasies of anesthesia?
If a VT perscribes meds do they know about interactions with other meds, labs that need to be monitored, even how the drugs themselves work? I highly doubt it. These are things veterinarians go to school for 7+ years to learn not something on the job training is going to impart.
If I were going to a vet the allowed a tech to perscribe or perform surgeries I'd be finding a new vet and writing a letter to their state board.
Yup, I agree with you 100%, both with the nurses and about the VTs heheQuote:
Originally Posted by Sparklecoon
I know that most clinics that hire unlicensed VTs won't let the VTs perform routine operations, but it's still unsettling to me to think that my dog could be that person's "practice dummy". I won't want someone to practice on my children medically, and I sure as heck wouldn't want someone practicing on my dog who already "claims" to be a VT. I don't care if it's something as small as a vaccine or blood draw or something big like an operation. I don't want them touching my dog period, and if I ever found out my vet employed unlicensed VTs, I would be out the door and finding a new vet pronto.
It's nothing personally against the individuals themselves, but moreso the vet for not taking all precautions in ensuring my pet's safety and health.
I will never believe this. I've seen too many good vets in my time. From my regular vets to vets at a veterinary clinic in Cleveland and at Ohio State University. Why on earth would someone even want to be a vet if they didn't want to help animals. :confused: There are plenty of other professions to choose from.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckies4me
Why on Earth would someone put themselves through the very difficult and EXPENSIVE schooling to become a veterinarian if they didn't truly and honestly love animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by chocolatepuppy
I am only in school to become a tech, and already this has taken over my personal life. I "work" 8-3, plus an additional 3-6 hours of homework and/or studying every night. This is not taking into account the weeks when I am on kennel duty when I have to arrive at 6:30am and stay as late after classes as 5:30pm. PLUS WEEKENDS.
I'm just training to be a tech...a vet has to go through more than double of what I'm going through... if you didn't honestly have that drive of loving animals, you would not subject yourself to such ridiculously hard schooling. You have NO personal life during school!!!
Plus, "there are plenty of other professions to choose from", there are also plenty of other higher-paying and EASIER professions to choose from than a vet.
So I do not agree with the "90%" statement. Maybe some percentage it's true, but I honestly believe in my heart that the majority of vets out there today do it because they love animals, even if they've become desensitized, they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't care.
I know what you mean. :) I guess I'm just used to the fact, as I've only worked with a few licensed techs. I definately understand where you're coming from. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika
I do plan on taking the state board exam. It's just going to be tough finding a job here. Oregon is one of the toughest places to find a job unfortunately.
Perhaps the 90% statement isn't true, but on most days it sure seems that way. We had a huge discussion at work about how vets "turn wrong". Most start out for the love of the animals, with good intentions, but once into it for a few years begin to think of things other than helping the animals. It's just my experience having done this for ten years.
For instance, where I work now we used to be co-owned by a doctor and the corporate office, however, because this veterinarian got a bad rap (people quit because of her), she sold the practice and now another doctor and our office manager are going to take it over. She has since moved onto another Banfield in another city here in Oregon, and having not been there only a year people were already wanting her gone. We all dread when she stops by.
I understand working to make a living, but when you suck all the money out of someone that's just wrong. People expect a caring, compassionate person to care for their pets, not someone who only is working for the money.
One of our new vets, who has been with us about a year or so, suggested we take rads on all animals before they receive their dental cleanings. She is constantly talking about money. Lets just say her "suggestion" didn't happen. We all thought she was ridiculous. People do not have the money to pay for uneccessary treatment.
That is why we have such a bad problem with sterlizing animals. We charge almost $300 bucks for a dog spay. That isn't including if the pet is in heat, over 6 months, over 50 pounds, or over 8 months. That's a huge chunk of change!
Cataholic, as far as how much you spent, you are very lucky. Here, where I work the bill would probably be twice as much as you spent! Hopefully, one day I will work in a better clinic, with people who know how to make a living without charging with needless bloodwork, presciption meds etc.
Not everyone who works at a clinic likes animals. There have been many times I've seen people treat animals with little or no respect. It makes me quite sick to my stomach. The way some people handle animals is just beyond me. Scared dogs being yelled at. They are already frieghtened. You really think yelling at them is going to make them behave better? Squirmy puppies...they are PUPPIES for heaven's sake. They are excited to see people. Just because they don't sit still for a blood draw doesn't mean they are bad animals. And then there is the whole, oh it's this breed so lets automatically assume it's going to be a biter. Things like that.
I do work with some amazing veterinarians though. Dr. Luna in particular is my favorite. :) Sadly, she doesn't plan on staying in Oregon for long, and I think a fair share of us will be looking for new jobs once she leaves.
Don't you love those people? :rolleyes: We have people come in all the time that want us to tell them what is wrong with their pet. Our suggestion? SEE A VET! If your pet has diarrhea there are several things that can cause this. How the heck are we supposed to know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catlady711
And then you get the lovely people who know something is really wrong, but avoid treating the pet at all costs. Like today, we had a young woman come in with an 8 week old lab mix puppy. The dog was extremely bloated, and even vomited, much to my friends digust, roundworms into the trashcan. She got the dog for free outside of a Winco. She was telling me how tomorrow she is going to donate plasma to earn 45 bucks, as she has no money. If you have no money why would you adopt a puppy? It's just beyond me. Now, that poor dog is probably going to sit there for months with worms, or get some deadly disease like distemper or parvo all because she took the dog in knowing she couldn't care for it. In fact, earlier she tried taking the puppy to the pound, but she said the pound wouldn't take it because they were full. The truth is, she couldn't take the dog to the pound because they charge a $45 dollar fee to surrender an animal, as the shelters here are very full this time of year. It's very sad.
In all honesty it doesn't matter that much to me. I care more about my vet than I do the techs. I most certainly wouldn't want a tech doing anything that would be considered illegal such as performing surgery, but for most things I trust someone that has had the proper training. I do realize that a tech that has gone to school usually will have a better understanding of animal care, but I'm not sure that I think that makes them more capable of performing their duties. A registered tech can take the temperature or draw blood just as well as one that is unregistered, these are skills that are learned by practice and experience. When it comes to the important things I trust that my vet will be handling these procedures.
However I did leave my last vet because I didn't like his techs, I found them unfriendly and rude and did not enjoy dealing with them. They didn't seem like they cared about me or my animals so I found a new vet. I'm not sure if his techs are registered or unregistered, but they are friendly explain things to me so that I can understand what is going on. They also were great when Corkscrew was sick this past summer and I was in and out of the vet almost every week. They were very calm and patient with my little monster and I felt that they did a great job at performing their duties as a tech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckies4me
As far as I know, my dentist is a "registered" dentist..he he he, and he makes us sign a waiver if we elect NOT to have xrays done before our teeth cleaning. I go to the dentist twice a year! And, while he only does xrays on a yearly basis, it certainly makes sense to xray a pet's mouth before cleaning, when you consider the cleanings are done much further apart than ours.
How can an xray on a 4 year old dog's mouth, before the dog undergoes anesthesia for a dental cleaning be ridiculous? Sounds kind of good to me.