My 2 cent opinion on "Pet Food" *Edit*

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Originally Posted by flip195

When I was younger it was the done thing to feed the animals table scraps, raw bones, the occasional raw meats and lights ( offal ie. lungs/ intestines etc) green tripe was a favorite. All of my dogs lived well into their teens and were full of life until their bodies finally just gave in to old age. Only when the habits changed and we started feeding manufactured foods did we suffer from our pets dying younger and them being affected by cancers and other problems.
Example:
1958- 1965 diet as described above, GSD lived to be 17, and 2 cocker spaniels lived to be 16.
1966- 1987 diet of canned food medium sized Mix breed lived to be lived to be 14 and developed cancer. Poodle mix developed diabetes; heart murmur and eye problems lived to be 14.
1988 – 2007 Lab, died at 12 after a life time on kibble, from cancer, small mix, developed epilepsy died at 8 fed kibble, JRT died at 10 from kidney failure, kibble diet. Roth and Bear are still youngish at 13 and both it is doubted will see out this year.
So from my own experience I find myself asking was table scraps, raw bones and offal meats really such a bad diet?

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The correct question to ask is: If one breeds a female dog destined to develop cancer to a male dog destined to develop cancer, what are the chances their offspring will develop cancer? If those offspring are likewise bred to another line where cancer is endemic, what are the chances of those progeny having a more increased chance of cancer? Would feeding exclusely table scraps to dogs with a higher than normal occurance of oncogenes alter the incidence of cancer?

Per metabolic disease. Ask yourself what happens if a dog consumes anti-freeze? Goodbye kidneys. This occurs very quickly in a matter of days, not months, not years. Let's suppose there is a toxin in the dog's food that can affect the kidneys. How long do you believe it will take for the dog to show health problems? How long did it take for contaminated Chinese wheat glutin to start destroying the kidneys of dogs? Months? Years? Nope. Yes metabolic disease also has genetic links back to irresponsible breeding.

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Originally Posted by cali

domestic dogs have been around for thousands of years, commercial dog food has been around for less then 100 years. this, by definition, makes commercial dogfood the Fad.

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Definition of Fad

a practice or interest followed for a time with exaggerated zeal

The craze of raw is good, and commercial is poison religion seems to qualify as having an exaggerated zeal. It will pass.

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The craze of raw is good, and commercial is poison religion seems to qualify as having an exaggerated zeal. It will pass.

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no, the craze of commercial dogfood is passing. the "exaggerated zeal" being that raw will kill your dog and only commercial dog food can possably be healthy. raw and homecooked was here first, and was here for a vey long time, then commercial dogfoods came about sspouting that it was the only healthy way to feed your dog, evenyone jumped on the bandwagon, and now the fad is begging to pass lol

I don't think commercial dog food will ever disappear, but I do think companies will work to put out better products that are more "natural." Some of it will just be marketing of course, but I do think there are more alternatives available now such as Evo and Timberwolf Organics etc., than there used to be.

I never understand why some of these threads have to get so personal with people's intelligence being insulted. There's really no need for that to state one's opinions and beliefs.

oh absoulty, I dont think commercial food will ever go away totally, however more and more people are jumping off the commercial food bandwagon. even I feed commercial dog food here and there simpely for convenience sake.

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Originally Posted by cali

no, the craze of commercial dogfood is passing. the "exaggerated zeal" being that raw will kill your dog and only commercial dog food can possably be healthy. raw and homecooked was here first, and was here for a vey long time, then commercial dogfoods came about sspouting that it was the only healthy way to feed your dog, evenyone jumped on the bandwagon, and now the fad is begging to pass lol

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Exactly!...Why do most people feed commercial dog food? Because generation after generation have been "taught" that it is the best and only food for your dog. "No meat!" "No bones!" "No table scraps!"...We've all heard it..and anyone who feeds any different is bashed and put down because they can't possibly be "educated enough" to make their own dog's meal. Raw and homecooked diets are not a fad. And they are not going anywhere...people have been feeding this way LONG before kibble came along, and people will continue too do so. The benefits speak for themselves.

Also about the whole cancer bit a couple posts above..I will admit I know very little about canine cancer. Now correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't cancer feed on sugar? And don't those heaps of carbs in your dogs kibble turn to sugar? Hmm...So when you take those grains out of your dogs diet what happens? The cancer has less to feed on, no?

Not surprised at all that many owners of dogs with cancer choose to go the raw and homecooked route.

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heres an intresting artice:

July, 16 2007

By Deb M. Eldredge, DVM

You never want to get the news that your dog has cancer. However, it’s good to know there are many effective treatments available to dogs now. One of the simplest and most affordable is a good diet. While the food you give your dog won’t necessarily cure cancer, it can make a significant difference in your dog’s ability to fight the disease.

If your dog is diagnosed with cancer, you should make it a priority to help him maintain as healthy a body as possible with a sound immune system. This may require some adjustments to his diet, because many cancers cause dogs to lose weight and muscle mass. This condition, called “cachexia,” can be caused directly by the cancer or it can be the side effect of some cancer treatments.

In a series of studies, Dr. Ogilvie, a leading cancer nutritionist, looked at the effect of different diets on dogs with cancers, specifically lymphomas. He discovered that dogs with cancer actually metabolize some nutrients differently than healthy dogs.

For starters, dogs with cancer use carbohydrates differently. In his study, Dr. Ogilvie found that the cancer grows rapidly with plenty of glucose available. Specifically, the cancer cells gain energy by using simple sugars, such as glucose, which is a breakdown product of carbohydrates. Therefore, you can help deprive the cancer cells of fuel for growth by decreasing the amount of carbohydrates in your dog’s diet.

In contrast to their use of carbs, cancer cells don’t utilize fat very well. The omega-3 fatty acids in particular are useful for cancer patients. These fatty acids decrease the development of carcinogen-related tumors and decrease the growth of solid tumors. They also help alleviate some side effects of chemotherapy and radiation treatments and provide healthy cells with energy. Flaxseed oil and cold-water fish oils such as salmon oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids that you can consider adding to your dog’s diet. Omega-6 fatty acids such as safflower oil are not recommended, with the exception of cases of an unusual skin growth called mycosis fungoides.

So a diet with low carbohydrates and a fair amount of omega-3 fatty acids can help your dog. But what about protein? Tumor cells will use protein for energy before fat; that’s why cancer patients lose muscle and body condition. The cancer cells fight with the normal cells for the amino acids they need. An ideal diet for a dog with cancer, then, contains a moderate amount of top-quality protein.

You may also want to supplement some amino acids, such as arginine, which is known for helping to maintain the immune system. A strong immune system can help your dog’s body fight cancer. Glutamine is another important amino acid that helps to preserve the gastrointestinal tract and may decrease any vomiting or diarrhea seen as a side effect of some chemotherapy regimens. Finally, glycine specifically protects the kidneys from the side effects of the chemotherapy drug called cisplatin. You can really boost your dog’s ability to fight the cancer by making sure he gets enough of these three important amino acids.

Other supplements that might be beneficial include vitamins A, C, and E and selenium. These vitamins and the mineral selenium are known for their antioxidant properties; they all fight the free radicals related to aging. Vitamin A can even be supplied in the form of cod liver oil that will also provide extra omega-3 fatty acids. Vitamin E and selenium act as antioxidants but need to be given in the proper balance. Vitamin C is not only an antioxidant but also an acidifier. Studies have shown that an alkaline body aids cancer growth, so it is conceivable, though not proven, that an acidic body may slow down cancer growth. While all of these supplements are helpful, too much of any one of them can be dangerous, so be sure to consult with your veterinarian about the proper dosage before you add them to your dog’s diet.

A few additional dietary additions that may be helpful include garlic, which is known for counteracting many carcinogens, and both black and green tea. It may be tricky to get your dog to enjoy an afternoon cup of tea with you, though! Herbs such as echinacea, bromelain and milk thistle may also be appropriate additives for specific cancers.

While we can’t say that diet changes will cure most cancers, some dietary adjustments may help give your dog a longer survival time with a better quality of life. And luckily, most foods, unlike many cancer treatments, have very few side effects.

Dr. Deb M. Eldredge graduated from Cornell University as the first recipient of the Gentle Doctor Award. She has been in private practice and is active in virtually all dog sports. She is also an award-winning writer — her book “Cancer and Your Pet” was a finalist in the Dog Writers of America (DWAA) contest, and “Head of the Class,” a training book written with her daughter, won the Best Training and Behavior Book Award from DWAA in 2006.

http://dogcentral.msn.com/article.as...0079&GT1=10279

Has it occurred to anyone that the food itself is only partially to blame?

Besides genetics which dragondawg mentioned, there are way more environmental factors to consider.

Even people seem to be getting cancer more, people travel more and further (taking their pets with them) than they did in the 60's thus exposing their animals to more things or just having more diseases brought into their own backyard by traveling pets. Diagnostics have gotten better every year in both people and animals, it's possible that what used to be just lumped in one category, they now know what it is and have a name and separate category for it as well as tests to detect it.

Something to think about.

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Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

When the last time did your grandparents died from Liver Cancer?

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About 13 years ago, my grandfather.

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When the last time did your grandparents died from Liver Cancer?

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First, 5 years ago...then the last time was 2 years ago. Bummer they had to go through it twice! :p

Recommend Books
The BARF Diet by Ian Billinghurst

Raw Dog Food: Make It Easy for you and your dog by Carina Beth MacDonald

Dr Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats by Dr Richard Pitcairn

K9 by Monica Segal

Natural Nutrition for Dogs & Cats: The Ultimate Diet by Kymythy Schultze

Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog by Wendy Volhard

The Holistic Dog Book by Denise Flaim

Food Pets Diet For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food by Ann N. Martin

Protect Your Pet: More Shocking Facts by Ann N. Martin

Recommend Sites
The Dog Food Comparison Charts

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid

What should I avoid?

Pet Education

Pet food additives to avoid

Pet Food Ingredients Revealed! Pt 1 - 2

Canine Care

Supplements Diets What to Feed & NOT feed

The Dog Food Project

Dog Aware

AAP (Action Againist Poisoning)

Dogs Keep Dying: Too many owners remain unaware of toxic dog food

The Pet Food List

The Dog Food Conspiracy

Doggie Dietician by Monica Segal

Wow, although this thread started off a little nasty, there is a lot of good information in it. I am no where near as informed as you guys are but I feel strongly that genetics plays a role in canine cancer, or any other disease for that matter. While I do believe that a proper diet is essential in maintaining good health and possibly a longer life span or maybe a more enjoyable one for your dog, diet is more likely to be trumped by genes. I cannot support this by any scientific journal but dogs have eaten the 'commercial crap' for years and some have gotten sick or died at an early age and some have lived for many years. If you will allow me to make a parallel between human and canince experience, my dad was the healthiest, most physically fit 62 year old man and he passed away from lung cancer 5 years ago. He never smoked, he could beat guys more than half his age at tennis and he ate all the recommended foods every day. Both his younger brothers had died from cancer a few years before him.

Cancer is cancer and whether you feed your dog kibble or raw, it's a genetic crapshoot.

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Originally Posted by Danegirl2208

Also about the whole cancer bit a couple posts above..I will admit I know very little about canine cancer. Now correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't cancer feed on sugar? And don't those heaps of carbs in your dogs kibble turn to sugar? Hmm...So when you take those grains out of your dogs diet what happens? The cancer has less to feed on, no?

Not surprised at all that many owners of dogs with cancer choose to go the raw and homecooked route.

.....

heres an intresting artice:

July, 16 2007

By Deb M. Eldredge, DVM

You never want to get the news that your dog has cancer. However, it’s good to know there are many effective treatments available to dogs now. One of the simplest and most affordable is a good diet. While the food you give your dog won’t necessarily cure cancer, it can make a significant difference in your dog’s ability to fight the disease.

If your dog is diagnosed with cancer, you should make it a priority to help him maintain as healthy a body as possible with a sound immune system. This may require some adjustments to his diet, because many cancers cause dogs to lose weight and muscle mass. This condition, called “cachexia,” can be caused directly by the cancer or it can be the side effect of some cancer treatments.

In a series of studies, Dr. Ogilvie, a leading cancer nutritionist, looked at the effect of different diets on dogs with cancers, specifically lymphomas. He discovered that dogs with cancer actually metabolize some nutrients differently than healthy dogs.

For starters, dogs with cancer use carbohydrates differently. In his study, Dr. Ogilvie found that the cancer grows rapidly with plenty of glucose available. Specifically, the cancer cells gain energy by using simple sugars, such as glucose, which is a breakdown product of carbohydrates. Therefore, you can help deprive the cancer cells of fuel for growth by decreasing the amount of carbohydrates in your dog’s diet.

In contrast to their use of carbs, cancer cells don’t utilize fat very well. The omega-3 fatty acids in particular are useful for cancer patients. These fatty acids decrease the development of carcinogen-related tumors and decrease the growth of solid tumors. They also help alleviate some side effects of chemotherapy and radiation treatments and provide healthy cells with energy. Flaxseed oil and cold-water fish oils such as salmon oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids that you can consider adding to your dog’s diet. Omega-6 fatty acids such as safflower oil are not recommended, with the exception of cases of an unusual skin growth called mycosis fungoides.

So a diet with low carbohydrates and a fair amount of omega-3 fatty acids can help your dog. But what about protein? Tumor cells will use protein for energy before fat; that’s why cancer patients lose muscle and body condition. The cancer cells fight with the normal cells for the amino acids they need. An ideal diet for a dog with cancer, then, contains a moderate amount of top-quality protein.

You may also want to supplement some amino acids, such as arginine, which is known for helping to maintain the immune system. A strong immune system can help your dog’s body fight cancer. Glutamine is another important amino acid that helps to preserve the gastrointestinal tract and may decrease any vomiting or diarrhea seen as a side effect of some chemotherapy regimens. Finally, glycine specifically protects the kidneys from the side effects of the chemotherapy drug called cisplatin. You can really boost your dog’s ability to fight the cancer by making sure he gets enough of these three important amino acids.

Other supplements that might be beneficial include vitamins A, C, and E and selenium. These vitamins and the mineral selenium are known for their antioxidant properties; they all fight the free radicals related to aging. Vitamin A can even be supplied in the form of cod liver oil that will also provide extra omega-3 fatty acids. Vitamin E and selenium act as antioxidants but need to be given in the proper balance. Vitamin C is not only an antioxidant but also an acidifier. Studies have shown that an alkaline body aids cancer growth, so it is conceivable, though not proven, that an acidic body may slow down cancer growth. While all of these supplements are helpful, too much of any one of them can be dangerous, so be sure to consult with your veterinarian about the proper dosage before you add them to your dog’s diet.

A few additional dietary additions that may be helpful include garlic, which is known for counteracting many carcinogens, and both black and green tea. It may be tricky to get your dog to enjoy an afternoon cup of tea with you, though! Herbs such as echinacea, bromelain and milk thistle may also be appropriate additives for specific cancers.

While we can’t say that diet changes will cure most cancers, some dietary adjustments may help give your dog a longer survival time with a better quality of life. And luckily, most foods, unlike many cancer treatments, have very few side effects.

Dr. Deb M. Eldredge graduated from Cornell University as the first recipient of the Gentle Doctor Award. She has been in private practice and is active in virtually all dog sports. She is also an award-winning writer — her book “Cancer and Your Pet” was a finalist in the Dog Writers of America (DWAA) contest, and “Head of the Class,” a training book written with her daughter, won the Best Training and Behavior Book Award from DWAA in 2006.

http://dogcentral.msn.com/article.as...0079&GT1=10279

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The answer is no and no. At least for the commercial dog food I feed mine (Propet Large Breed Puppy Formula) there is no, none, nunca, nyet sugar listed in the ingredients. Now somewhere on this planet there is bound to be a dog food that has sucrose, fructose (e.g. corn syrup), or glucose listed as an ingredient, but it's doubtful if you will find many - even for the cheap brands. So from my perspective commercial dog food is not loaded with sugar.

The second no is for the leap of faith that feeding sugar to dogs is going to induce cancer or increase the incidence. Now it may play havoc with the blood sugar levels, and possibly lead to diabetes - as is the case for humans. Not to mention weight gain and skeletal problems.

As for the article you cite Dr Eldredge starts out on track per the Ogilvie research but quickly veers off path quickly. What Ogilvie found was that in combination with Chemotherapy (Doxorubicin), a lymphoma dog fed high doses of Arginine plus fish oil lived longer than those not fed those two supplements. The result of his research was to support the then new Hills c/d dog food formula which added Arginine and fish oil. With my lymphoma puppy I just gave her the Arginine and fish oil, avoiding Hills.

He also discussed the role of fish oil normalizing lactic acid levels, which he previously showed as being elevated in lymphoma dogs. Thus we arrive at the first veer off track:

Studies have shown that an alkaline body aids cancer growth, so it is conceivable, though not proven, that an acidic body may slow down cancer growth.

A lymphoma puppy as just stated has a high lactic acid blood content and subsequently a lower pH. The lactic acid is a by product of fermentation as the sugar is consumed by the cancer cells leaves the host animal to get its energy nutrition through non-carbohydrate sources. Yet a high lactic acid level is a poor prognostic factor for the dog's survival. Thus her statement of saying a low pH is desirable is off the wall.

Flaxseed oil and cold-water fish oils such as salmon oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids that you can consider adding to your dog’s diet. Omega-6 fatty acids such as safflower oil are not recommended

Another off the wall comment by Eldredge. Flaxseed oil is not a good source of Omega-3s relative to fish oils. In fact Flaxseed has just the precusors of both Omega-3s and Omega-6 fatty acids (e.g. Alpha-LNA, and Linoleic Fatty Acid in a ratio of 43% to 26%) that must be converted by the host animal into the long chain Omega FAs. Example: There is 230 mg of Alpha-LNA per 1 gm of Flax oil. The actual amount that gets converted in humans (via one radioactive isotope study) to 3-Omega fatty acids is somewhere between 4.6 mg – 34.5 mg 3-Omega fatty acids per 1 gm of Flax Oil. Let's not forget the Linoleic FA conversion to Omega-6 FAs that has been shown to promote cancer. Apply the 43% to 26% ratio and you arrive very little benefit in giving Flax oil. Compare to fish oil which has the Omega-3s 180 mg EPA + 120 mg DHA or 300 mg of 3-Omega fatty acids per 1000 mg of fish oil. No conversion by the host animal needed. Thus Eldredge is incorrect in saying Flax has no potential for conversion to the Omega-6s, and is incorrect in saying it's a rich source of Omega-3s.

The third off track for Eldredge is the recommendation of garlic. Research studies have been performed with garlic extracts, and concentrates of active components. In order to acheive the same levels with raw or processed garlic one would literally have to poison the dog (hemolytic anemia) to get the same effect.

I have no disagreements with Eldredge per the use of Vitamins in dogs undergoing Chemotherapy as a means to possible enhance the drugs, or help protect against the harmful effects (e.g. I gave my Lymphoma puppy Co-Enzyme Q to help protect the heart muscle mitochrondria against the harmful effects of Doxorubicin - with research literature to back it up). But you have to put Vitamins in the context as an adjunct treatment, where it probably won't do any harm, but may have a minimal effect at best. Still when you have a dog with cancer anything is worth a try.


As flipgirl asserts (and as I do) cancer in dogs is genetic, and it matters not whether you feed raw, cooked, commercial or otherwise. Irresponsible breeding is the principal cause IMO. Keep that in mind the next time you hear someone casually say they want to breed their dog. Do they know the cancer history of all siblings, parents and siblings for a few generations back? Do the so called professional breeders care about oncogenes in their breeding stock? Would they be willing to take their breeding stock out of breeding if the history indicated cancer in the line? Doubtful. The cancer epidemic speaks for itself.

As Catlady points out part of the epidemic is the realization it exists. In past years it would have been misdiagnosed at best. Add in that despite the rumored horrors of commercial dog food, our dogs none the less are living longer on it, also allowing the cancer to appear with age.