Battle of the Headcollars - Halti vs. Gentle Leader

Sorry, I'm a flat-buckle type of gal. I only use martingales on Giselle because a regular collar will slip off. If that were not the case with sighthounds, all my dogs would have flat-buckles.

I firmly believe that any and every dog can be taught loose-lead with a simple flat-buckle. The problem is that most people jump ahead of themselves. Before your dog learns to walk nicely outdoors, he has to do it well at home. It's like training Sit. Before your dog can do it in your front yard, he has to learn how to do it in your living room, in your bathroom, in your backyard, and, eventually, you add in distractions. The dog has to learn that there's only one way to walk. In order to teach that, you have to start from the very very very basics. Be consistent, be firm, and be patient. How about exercise Fender a bit before you go on walks so that he's not so amped up? Then, go through your loose-leash routine in your backyard. Work your way up to your front yard. Do some figure 8's down the street, and then go for your walk. Even if you don't make it past the neighbor's house, at least Fender will start to "click" with the idea. Good luck! It can be very hard at first, but the rewards are well worth it!

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Originally Posted by mike001

Cali you've just explained the dowside of haltis or Gentle leaders. The dogs just don't learn.

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I have to disagree and here is why:

Let me start off by saying that my biggest pet peeve is dog's that pull on a leash. It drives me NUTS and gets me infuriated within a minute of dealing with them. My dog Nova is that way and I used the Halti to help her learn how to walk good on a leash.

This is what we did:
For 2 weeks Nova and I walked with the Halti on. This allowed her to learn what I wanted. I taught her to walk by my side and she learned that if she walked nicely by my side she would have full motion of her head. If I had used just a regular leash there would have been a power struggle and I would have been extremely frustrated seconds into dealing with her. The halti made it so she didn't pull and she was learning all at the same time. Eventually when I felt she was ready I put the halti on for the first 2 minutes of the walk to allow her to calm down. Once she was calmed down I removed the Halti and walked her on her regular collar. It took a little bit, and a lot of patience from me, but she finally got it. She now walks like a pro and I no longer have to use the Halti. The halti can and was designed to be used as a training tool. If used properly it can work wonders. There were other solutions to Nova's problem but the halti made training bearable for the both of us.


Ashley

I prefer the Halti. Much softer material. A lot more comfortable for a sensitive dog.

When i was fitting them for Koli she was going spastic on on the Gentle Leader. I tried on a Halti and she did fine.

Also, a determined dog can easily slip out of a Gentle Leader.

Make sure you fit them right. If you pull up and the dog can struggle out of it, it's too loose. (Idiots at both stores didn't have a clue though they said it was fitted right. I had to have a professional trainer re-adjust it for me and show me how to properly use it. Even reading the inserted book didn't help for proper fitting... but it does have a LOT of great advice.)

Again, all dogs are different. If you use it properly you can still train using a Halti (or GL.) People put them on the dog and get lazy. The don't train... they just let the Halit control the dog. I think i used the Halti on Koli for two months. I taught her to not pull so darn much. How? I was committed to using the right timing with pull, praise, and commands. You can NOT forget to continue training every second you have that dog on leash. Just because you've hidden the symptoms, doesn't mean you found a cure. People tend to forget that the second their shoulder is no longer being yanked out of socket.

I'm sure there are some dogs that would just NEVER learn to quit pulling, but i think it's an abomination to say you can't train a dog when using the Halti or GL.

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Originally Posted by mike001

Cali you've just explained the dowside of haltis or Gentle leaders. The dogs just don't learn. You stated that you use it only for the 11 yr old girl to walk your dog because she still gets excited and pulls. if the dog was really trained that 11 yr old wouldn't have a problem with her pulling, hence the Halti is simply a restraint. Out here people using haltis use them for uncontrollable or aggressive dogs only. If a dog is properly trained, it walks obediently on a flat collar or at least on a choke chain. This is why I love the prongs, there is no yanking, pulling or misbehavior, and the dog can think and learn. In my opinion, the halti simply replaces the muzzle for safety reasons.

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Neither, i would rather take the time to train a dog than to put a 'band aid' over the problem.

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Originally Posted by Giselle

I firmly believe that any and every dog can be taught loose-lead with a simple flat-buckle. The problem is that most people jump ahead of themselves. Before your dog learns to walk nicely outdoors, he has to do it well at home. It's like training Sit. Before your dog can do it in your front yard, he has to learn how to do it in your living room, in your bathroom, in your backyard, and, eventually, you add in distractions. The dog has to learn that there's only one way to walk. In order to teach that, you have to start from the very very very basics. Be consistent, be firm, and be patient. How about exercise Fender a bit before you go on walks so that he's not so amped up? Then, go through your loose-leash routine in your backyard. Work your way up to your front yard. Do some figure 8's down the street, and then go for your walk. Even if you don't make it past the neighbor's house, at least Fender will start to "click" with the idea. Good luck! It can be very hard at first, but the rewards are well worth it!

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this is EXACTLY what I wanted to say!

We do choose to use harnesses for walks, but our dogs are trained to heel. We first were told by a trainer to get the gentle leader for the malamute, but went onto training. we can speed up(say jog or run) and say "hurry hurry" and when we slow down we use "easy easy" and you have your pup heeling good. we had to practice in petsmart, at our home and on busy street. we actually need to brush up on their skills as we've been slacking on walks. :o

I use Gentle Leaders with both my boys and am very impressed with them. Archie no longer pulls like a train and I can stop Tobey jumping up on unsuspecting passers by

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Originally Posted by Giselle

Sorry, I'm a flat-buckle type of gal. I only use martingales on Giselle because a regular collar will slip off. If that were not the case with sighthounds, all my dogs would have flat-buckles.

I firmly believe that any and every dog can be taught loose-lead with a simple flat-buckle. The problem is that most people jump ahead of themselves. Before your dog learns to walk nicely outdoors, he has to do it well at home. It's like training Sit. Before your dog can do it in your front yard, he has to learn how to do it in your living room, in your bathroom, in your backyard, and, eventually, you add in distractions. The dog has to learn that there's only one way to walk. In order to teach that, you have to start from the very very very basics. Be consistent, be firm, and be patient. How about exercise Fender a bit before you go on walks so that he's not so amped up? Then, go through your loose-leash routine in your backyard. Work your way up to your front yard. Do some figure 8's down the street, and then go for your walk. Even if you don't make it past the neighbor's house, at least Fender will start to "click" with the idea. Good luck! It can be very hard at first, but the rewards are well worth it!

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Congratulations Giselle. You seem to know all about dog training. You're right on target about the flat collar, and the reason people have trouble is lack of homework. It was well worded and not defensive which proves your dedication and experience. The reason I prefer the prong for most people is that I have witnessed dogs getting hurt with Gentle leaders, Haltis and especially choke collars. People don't get the message of the "pop". The prong is also my favourite because many people have no strength in their arm, like elderly people or the disabled. Prongs are easy to use, cause no damage and even 75 yr olds can control a rambunctious dog, much to their delight. Thank you for a well worded and honest message.

Terrierman, I voted. Feel free to PM me if you would like to know my experience. ;)

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Originally Posted by mike001

Prongs are easy to use, cause no damage and even 75 yr olds can control a rambunctious dog, much to their delight.

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Not mine. He knows no pain when we go out even in a propperly fitted prong. I've taken to walking him in a sporn harness and stopping everytime he pulls so he learns pulling= NOT moving. The fact that it physically restrained him instead of causing discomfort is why he is beginging to get the point. I use it because while I still work on healing in the yard, I believe he needs socialization even at 7 years, and as soon as we get onto the sidewalk he forgets all we did in the driveway. I'm trying to transfer over to something more convenient. In our 4-H obedience class he wears a slip or choke which is required (up right behind the ears or he barely feels it. We start out the lesson with a lot of pops, then he eventually gets tired and submits, going around the ring with his ears back, and head and tail down, but healing.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I know a few have stated that the headcollar is more of a band-aid, but the thing is, my mom (who walks Fender when I'm at school) doesn't seem to want to try with him (a little cruel, I know, but it's true), so therefore, all the good work I do every evening is undone every morning. Even if I have something that we just use when my parents walk him until I have him good and trained on a flat collar, will be perfect. I probably should have clarified.

Andy

P.S. Mike, no need to press the prong collar issue. I appreciate your input, but my parents would never use something like that. I know it's nowhere near as painful as it looks, but I can't see my mom putting that around a little Brittany's neck.

he he, yes I can understand your mom's feelings about the prong. To inexperienced people they do look barbaric. But hey, whatever you can use and make it work is all you need.

Terrierman, can you ask your parents to play fetch or something with your pup? How about frisbee or scent retrieving or some other type of fun game? That way, they can exercise Fender without utilizing a leash. Fender will get his fair share of exercise, and all your training will not be lost. Then, when you get home, you can tune up on his leash manners. It provides a good distraction from the monotony of leash walks, and it doesn't require much effort on the handler's part either. I have a feeling your parents would like that ;)

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I firmly believe that any and every dog can be taught loose-lead with a simple flat-buckle. The problem is that most people jump ahead of themselves. Before your dog learns to walk nicely outdoors, he has to do it well at home. It's like training Sit. Before your dog can do it in your front yard, he has to learn how to do it in your living room, in your bathroom, in your backyard, and, eventually, you add in distractions. The dog has to learn that there's only one way to walk. In order to teach that, you have to start from the very very very basics. Be consistent, be firm, and be patient. How about exercise Fender a bit before you go on walks so that he's not so amped up? Then, go through your loose-leash routine in your backyard. Work your way up to your front yard. Do some figure 8's down the street, and then go for your walk. Even if you don't make it past the neighbor's house, at least Fender will start to "click" with the idea. Good luck! It can be very hard at first, but the rewards are well worth it!

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I dont agree at all, I tried consistantly for many many YEARS to to train her this way, I now have a dog that walks fantastic anywhere on our block lol I cannot walk a border collie around the block a few times and expect her to be tired. she will be 5 years old this year, thats 5 YEARS it took to get her to walk nice on my block only. it got to the point that I simply could not exersize her she yanked so hard, pressure and pinch type collars were usless, she simpley didnt care. I tryed the Halti, it worked, at first I used it all the time, then I would start to fade it(putting it on, but hooking the leash to flat collar etc.. until I didnt have to use it at all. does she still pull? yup. but now she listens, and a voice reminder alone will stop her pulling.

yes I put the haltie on for a scrawny 11 year old girl to walk her, when she gets exited she still pulls, I can stop her with a voice command, but I have no reason to belive she will listen 100% to a stranger, and I am NOT willing to test it.

My 2 cents, from a sap who couldn't train a golden retriever or a cocker spaniel to "walk nice" on a leash. They are however, lovely, loving and extremely friendly dogs...

My golden is now 10 1/2 year old and too arthritic and weak in the back legs to be a problem (most of the time).

My ECS, however, is 2 1/2 and quite "energetic". I taught her to walk on lead with "clicker training", and she loves the walk, but she is a devil of a puller, especially when we get close to water or home. I tried clicker, I tried the turn and stop, I tried no forward movement, etc, but she is DETERMINED. Finally, I had herniated a disk in my neck (not because of the pulling) and had to do something. I got a gentle leader. IT IS GREAT. She can't pull too hard, and she listens better when it is on. She's not thrilled with it (rolls and such in the grass when its on), but she doesnt' fight at all when I put it on her, and it hasn't dampened her enthusiasm for walks in the least--she comes running when I pull out the leashes. No one has acted like she was wearing a muzzle (but, she is a cocker).

So, if you have the time and know-how to train your dogs to walk nice on a leash, go for it, but if you need a fix for an otherwise great dog who pulls,
I've been very happy with the gentle leader. Just read the instructions (or watch the video) to fit the thing right.

jakes mom