Flyball?? (rant)

as a flyball person I have to agree that you need to have complete and total control of your dog, flyball people work together when displining, crossing over for any reason is unacceptable, and if Zeke came up to a dog that was not friendly and the other dog went after Zeke, there is a extremly high possablity that both dogs will be banned from competing. Zeke sounds like he is a softer dog, but understand that most flyball dogs are so drivey at practices and tourniments that "bad dog" means nothing, most of them have to have someone leap in front of them screaming a few times before they make the connection that their not supposed to do that. if you dont have 100% control of your dog both on and off leash then your dog should not be taken off the leash at any point in time. period.

and by the way, I do agree that hitting the dog after the fact was rather pointless lol

I posted this to feel better but I feel worse now. I don't know why I bother. I would delete the post but I know that would annoy people..

People are ignorant for letting there dogs come up and sniff, it's not always rude. Some people just don't know any better. I always ask if my dog can come up and sniff or play, as I do have an aggessive dog, and I don't like it when peopple do that to me.

I wish people would stop saying I'm rude, and Zeke rude. Under those circumstances, I don't think it was. They all have been working with me since I took classes. They know what he is like and he does go to the other dogs. I'm still in training myself, and they didn't help me very much so I'm sorry I'm, not born with flyball knowledge and amazing dog contol abilities. They should NOT have let him run with other dogs if he's not ready. I know you'll say stop blaming them, it's your fault...but why must you all critize me when you don't know the whole story? I'm extremely sensitve about this because of how mean they were to me. You have no idea. I tried my best with Zeke. I figured they put dogs on the matt who wouldn't be upset if he crossed. I was exhasted after class because I had to be fun and energenic for him so he wouldn't lose focus.

Ok. I've calmed down a little.

This was ment to be a vent from me. These people have really hurt me. They were extremely rude to me, and I never got so much as a thank you for helping us. The club is poorly run, in my opinion, and I didn't post this to be about Zeke. I posted it because I'm still hurting.

If you have any more to say regarding Zeke and how I screwed everything up, please PM me or keep it to youself, as that isn't really the point I was trying to make.

I know I'm a very emotional person, and I struggle with depression and anxiety. I get upset over the stupiest things, but I can't control it sometimes. I was extremely depressed over this whole flyball thing for a long time. I really don't want to go there. I KNOW Zeke needs work, I KNOW he was rude, and I KNOW it's annoying. They told me this, for some reason AFTER the fact instead of when I was there so I could fix it. I never asked to be lectured on how badly he is. He is an excellent dog, with one little problem I WILL resolve. I don't REALLY want to re-join flyball, I was only upset thinking back on it. I want to prove he can do it, cause it annoys me when people bad mouth him...He is not a bad dog, and he is not aggessive. People seem to think that how he looks he is automatically a bad dog. People will stay away from him even if I'm walking him, and it's so irratating. He is a very soft, sweet dog who wouldn't hurt a fly.

So please, stop telling me about how he acts. I know it, and you telling me all the bad stuff about me and him is only going to upset me. I'm sorry to be so sensitive, but sometimes people just want to talk and not be lectured.

Audrey, I know how you feel, I'm still bothered by how Nebo and I were treated when we were in agility class. I hope the obedience classes go well, it probably is best that you don't go back to that flyball club. I haven't met Zeke, but I know he is a very sweet boy and very loved. I do not like it when other dogs come up to Nebo on-leash, even if they are friendly, because Nebo has "personal space" and doesn't usually like strange dogs getting in his face. But they handled it badly, and they knew that he was still training so they shouldn't have acted the way they did. I hope you can find another fun activity for you and Zeke.

Thanks Amy...

I'm hoping I can get him into therapy work...which is why I'm taking him to obedience. I'm going to train him to behave better around other dogs, so he will be able to work in a home and have people pat him and stuff. He loves attention, and I hear it's very rewarding too. I think we both would love that. It's not competitive, and I know he'll be good at it if he can over come his problem.

(as a side note about the not wanting dogs to come up in their space: I never let Zeke off leash when I know there might be a dog come up as I know it's a bother. I never come up to people without asking either. This only happened at flyball because I was doing when I was told to do. (and I wasn't told very much) If they had said, this is a problem please run by yourself...I would have. I figured they had the situation under control and that the dogs we ran with were able to cope with him. Some dogs are more sensitive than others. Some don't mind. I figured that's what they did. There was another person who had a dog do that too (cross and chase other dogs) no one ever gave her a hard time.

Audrey- I delayed posting on this thread for several reasons- just hear me out. I do not believe the club handled this right.
However- I will tell you even in the show circuit, people are required to maintain control at all times- including sniffing noses. The only "group" allowed and encouraged to come in contact is the terrier group ( staffy's aside) as terriers are encouraged to spar..
Let me give you a medical reason to keep your dog from others dogs. There are two out breaks now, and neither have vaccines- one is the new dog flu, and the second is dog herpes. Now dog herpes can be genetic or environmental- but the fact is- they just do not know. The leads I heard from the Vet. Assoc. LAST WEEK was even spread by urine to even sniffing another dogs uh woo hoo could spread it.
IN the 80's a new disease named parvo showed up- we were terrified as not only puppies were infected but adult healthy dogs as well- with usually fatel results.
Keeping dogs apart is not just for the safety of a conflict- including to your dog- it can also be a health issue.
As far as " you would not even be allowed to compete in my class/school/group"- I find that total "baloney".. We bring new ones into our groups all the time- and this is the best learning grounds to learn as the dog goes- sometimes ending up the best members quite frankly.
If you feel they ( they meaning the people) have problems in communications- well honey-- it wouldnt be the first time a "club" is not the best one for you. I joined a Sch. club once that required muzzles- to me their whole technique was too much hardness.. I left and found another one that better suited how the dogs were changed- THEN DID THE CONGO DANCE when in competitions my dogs took the top titles verses the club I left..
Some clubs build their rules based on a couple of dogs and how they learned- then take it and run- well not all dogs make all molds- and this doesnt work.. I hear your rant, and I am sure you looking at this differently- but if you arent- may I suggest another 'club'.. But keep in mind- for personal reasons and health- for you own dogs protection- keep your dog back from the others except in obvious open play...

I understand there are reasons for this. But that wasn't the purpose of my thread...I just wanted to vent. And I've explained my situtation too. I didn't know at that time it was so wrong. No one told me. I knew it was obviously annoying, but I thought we were all under the same understanding that they knew he was like that and they had a choice as to if they wanted to run with him or not. They knew he was like that and they could simply say I dont want my dog running with him...as classes were training, not a tourney situation

{{HUGS}} Zekey.

I have no clue about flyball or the like, but it seems some people take it to seriously. Can't they just have a bit of fun without being SO competitive? Can't they let the dogs be dogs at some point, too? NO ONE has any right to hit someone's dog.



Anywho... Zeke is a good boy and we all know that. I misses him. ;[

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Originally Posted by slleipnir

I understand there are reasons for this. But that wasn't the purpose of my thread...I just wanted to vent. And I've explained my situtation too. I didn't know at that time it was so wrong. No one told me. I knew it was obviously annoying, but I thought we were all under the same understanding that they knew he was like that and they had a choice as to if they wanted to run with him or not. They knew he was like that and they could simply say I dont want my dog running with him...as classes were training, not a tourney situation

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I understand honey, and I read it as a vent.. You know- classes can be a big thrill or sometimes you think you are taking a lesson in force feeding- chalk it up to one of those days.. ;) And keep this in mind- I use to have classes were I worked all week and had spotless results- walk in the class- and it would go out the window- some weeks where I could not work that much- expected the worse- and got the best I ever saw... Ya just never know... ;)

You did title this thread "rant" didn't you? Maybe next time you can add a qualifier; "no comments please". ;)

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Originally Posted by applesmom

You did title this thread "rant" didn't you? Maybe next time you can add a qualifier; "no comments please". ;)

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Maybe you didn't read post #18, but you should. Please try to be more sensitive to other's feelings.

Honestly... don't feel bad, at all. I have had similar problems with Flyball, and it's not even WORTH getting upset over! Seriously.

Flyball people especially, in the dog sport world, can get extremely cliquey & touchy & offensive. Understand that some of these people truly have no social lives except for Flyball, and they literally treat tournaments like a life-or-death experience!

I feel it's s t u p i d to get angry & offend people, and insane to hit any dog, because a dog got distracted by another dog and approached it in a friendly manner. No one's dog got hurt or was at risk of getting hurt, obviously. Flyball is a for fun dog sport... if we were talking about a dog running around loose at a herding trial and distracting the working dog, that's completely different all together.

Dogs are still animals, and I am a firm believer that NO DOG has 100% perfect recall, no matter how many hours are spent training. Dogs have instincts & make mistakes... just like people. For anyone to expect perfection from a dog, especially from Zeke who is still in training, they must be incredibly dillusional. I get soooo sick of people treating Flyball & other "for fun dog sports" like it's the end of the freaking world! It's like the Mom's & Dad's who scream and get into fights at their kids t-ball games... stupid.

I tried to get back into Flyball, too, for similar reasons. It just was not worth it to me... because of really petty, really immature arguements between people & friends switching teams. They also hurt my feelings, with some nasty remarks from one lady, who happens to own a Barbie Collie with z e r o drive (she was calling Gonzo aggressive... when Gonzo hasn't snapped at or left a mark on any dog ever).

Feel better, and do what you want to do. However, go back to the team for Zeke & you to have fun, not to prove anything. It's supposed to be fun!!! xP When it's no longer something you & Zeke look forward to, it's not worth all of your effort.

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Originally Posted by Kfamr

Maybe you didn't read post #18, but you should. Please try to be more sensitive to other's feelings.

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What's the problem? I was agreeing with her. Didn't you see the wink? :confused:

[QUOTE=slleipnir]I understand there are reasons for this. But that wasn't the purpose of my thread...I just wanted to vent. And I've explained my situtation too. I didn't know at that time it was so wrong. No one told me. I knew it was obviously annoying, but I thought we were all under the same understanding that they knew he was like that and they had a choice as to if they wanted to run with him or not. They knew he was like that and they could simply say I dont want my dog running with him...as classes were training, not a tourney situation[/QUOTE

You said, "I didn't know at the time it was wrong." And that's the exact problem. Your club never told you the "unwritten" rules of ettiquette. You crossed the line and never new the line was there. However, the guy who hit your dog crossed a line, too, and he probably KNEW the line was there.

In my school, I have a seminar for my beginning students that I give them before they go out into the big wide world of doggie competitions (I know you were training, but bear with me). It gives them all the unwritten rules of ettiquette and what will be expected of them. In addition, I enforce these unwrittten rules in my classes. In the beginning classes where dogs aren't that responsive to recalls, I make sure only one dog it loose at a time, and that all other dogs are crated. Then, we can have no incidents. After I get to know the dogs well, we may have one dog off lead and another dog out on-lead. Also, there's a rule - no nose to nose with the dogs. One of the biggest problems I find in dog sport clubs and schools is this issue. Allowing too many untrained dogs off-lead at the same time. YIKES!

Your club failed to educate you properly. They failed to let you know the apparently "unwritten" rules of their organization. They failed to give you structured and safe training until you were ready for the real off-lead experience.

You mentioned getting angry and upset easily. In dog sport, you have to have a thick skin. Someone will say something about you or your dog. People will be people. You need to develop a thick skin or you will get hurt again.

I think you are very sensitive. Even here, you said we were "yelling" at you. None of the posts I read indicated anyone was "yelling." They were offering advice and comments, which is what a board like this is for. You realize you are sensitive and get easily hurt. That's a good first step! Learn to also develop the thick skin.

This club sounds really unorganized and difficult. I can tell you, if someone came and hit my dog for not responding to a recall, I would be all over him like white on rice!! That is completely uncalled for. I wouldn't go back to that club. If I were you, I'd look for another club. Your personallity and that club's personality don't fit. Not all people can join all clubs. A well-run club wouldn't allow a dog with run-off issues into a situation like that where other dogs (and your dog) are at risk. You're a green, novice handler. It's up to the club to "bring you along" safely and slowly.

I'd go back to your obedience trainer for more work. Then, I'd look for another flyball group. If you can't find one, consider an alternate sport. Rally is a great sport for dogs with run-off issues. Much more contolled and fun. As it's not a team effort, you will probably also not get as much negative comments, which will suit your personality much better.

play agression is still agression and not okay and will eventualy spark a fight.

I was walking my dogs once when a big rottie came running up and and wasn't able to get mine up in time and he picked Hyzzie up in his mouth. she screamed bloody murder but wasn't hurt once he put her down just drooled on. He still kept coming for her! But he "just wanted to play" He really did but that doesn't make it okay.

alternate is little dogs bullying big dogs those owners to will usualy claim fluffy just wants to play then blame the big dog if theirs a fight even though the big dog was just fed up and saying enough.

Quasi used to be okay with big dogs even shared his obedience class with an English mastiff but he Saw that happen to his sister and he was attacked by a collie, and had many other big dog incidents so he hates all big dogs now. so I get that too when I pull my dogs back when there's a big dog. "He's not egressive" "He doesn't bite" (I have honestly come back sometimes "But mine do") ect. but mine are agressive/defensive with big dogs so please keep them away.

My old dog goldie was attacked by a lab once. I couldn't get that dog off and finaly resorted to a slap to it's back. I suppose I should have just kicked it because it looked like the big dog was killing her but I guess I'm just a big wimp. The owner finaly came over and got his dog off her. That one was being serious for sure but I've no idea what sparked it off.

There was absolutely zero reason to go and hit someone's dog after the fact though. that part was wrong.

I've had to many incidents to count, honestly, with dogs after mine. And thankfully the majority have been just agressive play except collies(no offense it's just true so far) every single one has wanted to kill Quasi! Any way it's no more exceptable in a sports club than on the street or at the dog park. I don't understand why the club would allow untrained or partly trained dogs in the club. Untrained in fly ball sure but a dog has to have at least basic obedience down pat to participate in clubs or even go to an off leash dog park (IMO)

I suppose that's why no one said anything though since they were told the club wont put up with anyone complaining about untrained dogs, that certainly leaves them no outlet except maybe to quit.