What Are Your Opinions On This?

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Originally Posted by LilacDragon

That is why I just love this board.

Less then a month ago, a majority of posters had nothing but harsh words for the gentleman that shot the loose dog in his yard because he claimed he was protecting his child and didn't know that the dog was a police dog.

But today, it is ok to shoot the loose dog to protect some chickens.

I must have missed something somewhere.

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I remember that thread. I believe I posted RIP Flip just like I posted RIP Penny here on this thread.

What I'm feeling is frustration that the owner didn't do enough to protect their dog. I know not to let Fenway out in my yard because I know he'll get flattened by a vehicle. So in the dead of winter when we actually have snow and it's actually 10 degrees below zero or it's 3am in the morning & he has to do his business, I pile on the clothes and the boots, hook him up to his leash & walk him. Heck I'd love to throw open the door so he can do his business without me having to go out with him. But I know I can't. I know he is my responsibility and I need to protect him.

Again, all of my comments are on what I'm hearing on the news. From what it sounds like, there's more to what's being said.

I'm sorry Penny's mom's if we did not have all the facts. However, I beleave we all have had that on neighbor that just lets there dog run around off leash all the time without careing about how others feel. I for one just assumed you were that same neighbor who just let there dog run loose. If we are wrong, then I am sorry I made that assumtion.

I do wonder though. What if one of our dog's got out of our backyards and wandered into a neighbors yard and the neighbor shot it claiming it was chaseing a chicken? How fare is that? What if your dog never did anything to his chickens, but the law says he has the right to. In my opinion the laws need to change. Starting with a huge fine for having your dog roaming off leash (something like $500) and then takeing away the law that allows you to shoot a dog on your property.

Ashley

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Originally Posted by Aspen and Misty

I'm sorry Penny's mom's if we did not have all the facts. However, I beleave we all have had that on neighbor that just lets there dog run around off leash all the time without careing about how others feel. I for one just assumed you were that same neighbor who just let there dog run loose. If we are wrong, then I am sorry I made that assumtion.

I do wonder though. What if one of our dog's got out of our backyards and wandered into a neighbors yard and the neighbor shot it claiming it was chaseing a chicken? How fare is that? What if your dog never did anything to his chickens, but the law says he has the right to. In my opinion the laws need to change. Starting with a huge fine for having your dog roaming off leash (something like $500) and then takeing away the law that allows you to shoot a dog on your property.

Ashley

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We had a problem with our dogs digging under the fence/breaking boards to get to the neighbors rabbits. One time one of the dogs got under the fence for a fairly long time and manged to get the hutch open, he did not kill the rabbit though. But there was one of the hurricanes going on, and it came in that night, and the rabbit was dead in the morning. Whether or not it was my dog's fault...I don't know, but I wouldn't blame my neighbor for protecting his property. Not that I would be happy about it, but that's only fair. We have since put up a better fence and they have been deterred and it's been a few years since they've gone over that side.

Now my neighbor's pit bull getting over here is another story...he's already done damage before, and still gets over every now and then. Technically we have the right to shoot that dog on sight based on the previous incident, but we are lenient and return him, usually.

I agree with LilacDragon...I feel the same, everyone has completely switched sides. I would not be surprised if perhaps the JRT was chasing the chickens, if not killing them. It even says that the dog just gets let out, and the grandmother even went for a walk without checking to make sure the dog was in the yard. How insane is that? And when you get home...wouldn't you notice the dog's gone? *Not* 45 minutes later. Plus based on the facts it looks like the family consistantly let the dog run around loose.

I wish the guy would only get a DUI. It may be a little wierd that he put the dog in a bag in the truck, but hey I've been drunk too.

I have to say that An owner needs to keep their dog on their property, for the dogs safety as well as others. But I also have to say, that I have chickens, and have had dogs come onto my property. None so far have hurt my chickens but thye have chased them. I could never Hurt a dog, for chasing my chickens, or killing one for that matter! I would definitely be upset, and would confront the dogs owner, but i couldnt shoot it!! Heck last summer, my own dog killed one of my chickens, i sure as heck didnt shoot my own dog!! I had a dog in my yard yesterday, I had never seen this dog beore, but not ten minutes went by before the owner was there to collect his dog. He was upset that the dog got out, and was even more upset at the thought that the dog might hurt one of my birds. We are surounded by dogs, and sometimes they get loose, but crap happens. Heck i will admit that my dog has escaped his yard a couple of times.

If the dog was bothering this gentle man, he could have just called animal control to come and get it. Simple as that! There was no need to shoot penny.

My parents have a dog who likes to escape and run around the neighborhod too, and you know what? She is NEVER allowed outdoors unattended (Or offlead for that matter), because the backyard fence does not prevent her from getting into the neighbor's yards. It is simply being a responsible pet owner.

I am sorry for your loss, but if he had already complained to the police about the dog being on his property you had plenty of warning. No doubt he could have handled the situation without killing the dog, but I still think the fault lies with the owners who knowingly allowed the dog to run loose.

I have mixed feelings about this situation, but it sure does seem to me that he was a little too extreme in his actions. If people can simply shoot a dog that's not posing a threat, that means anyone can shoot any dog at any time for no reason. That's kind of scary, IMO. People like this man have too much pent up rage, and not to mention owning guns....it's just scary. People make mistakes. Dogs can get loose accidentally, and when there's other factors in play like someone else watching your dog, little kids...etc, I can honestly see how something like that can happen.

My sister lives on 18 acres in the country, and I agree with Penny's Owner, that it is typical for dogs to be roaming. I'm not saying that I agree with that, because I'm a strong believer of keeping dogs inside/or in a yard with a fence, but I can also see how accidents can happen. One of my sister's dogs got out of their fenced yard, and got hit by a car. :(

Personally, I think this man should be charged for the DUI and also for animal cruelty. If Penny wasn't doing anything threatening to him or his chickens, then his actions were way over the top. Allowing people to simply shoot animals in their yard is scary. I just don't agree with that, unless you're being attacked or are in danger and need to protect yourself. :(

Whether or not it is common practice to let dogs run wild there, it is still unsafe and illegal. Just because it is a popular thing to do does not mean it is the right thing to do, and having other large dogs running loose certainly didn't make it any safer for Penny to be running loose.


I am genuinely curious to know the forensic and ballistics expertise of your animal cruelty 'expert'. Maybe it is just me, but I am always extra-untrusting of anonymous authoritative sources. It really wouldn't take an exceptionally powerful and large caliber weapon to make a real mess out of a small breed dog's body. Even then, I am sure that what you had to face with Penny's body (assuming you are actually the owner, that is) was horrid and highly upsetting, but even your 'expert' says it was not something that would legally qualify as torture or mutilation, which they pretty much needed for the felony arrest.

It is a very sad situation, and all sad situations have lots of extenuating circumstances and justifications and excuses that can be made... but you knew there was a problem for at LEAST a month, and you just waited until it cost Penny her life. Right or wrong, that IS what you chose and did. You knew he had a problem with Penny being an annoyance, you knew she was running rampant, and you did not fix the problem for more than a month. You say you are working on a remedy now... after the 'lesson learned', but after already bringing a new pup home. I suppose that is good, but it is still a little worrisome.

I really do feel for you. What an awful way to lose a dog, and I can think of very few things that I would hate to do more than have to tell two little ones their pet was gone, especially this time of year... but it concerns me that you have another dog already and don't seem to be accepting any responsibility here. Your neighbor is a monster, your mother is negligent, all your other neighbors are just as bad about their dogs, and so on... all I can say is that you have a huge responsibility for your new puppy. You, not your mother or anyone who happens to live nearby, are responsible for this puppy. Please keep him or her safe and contained and under control.

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Originally Posted by PennysOwner

My mother heard Pennys moan at the time of death at exactly 3:53. My son and mom were literally right to the side of his property........WHAT IF THAT BULLET HAD HIT MY MOM OR MY SON????

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So you hear the moan but not a gunshot? Are you claiming he had a silencer?

If the law already agrees he was in the wrong and arrested him since he appaerently admitted the dog wasn't a threat then what has to be changed? Are you saying that if a dog actually is killing one of my animals on my property I don't have the right to defend them, only call authorities so that they all will be dead by the time they get there? A loose dog has more rites than my own animals on my own proprty?

If the gunshot caused as much damage as posted, (sounds like a rifled slug from a shotgun) there would have been no "moan of death". As to the gunshot, it is frankly IMPOSSIBLE to silence a supersonic round from a weapon. If she was close enough to the incident to hear a 6 lb dog moan, the gunshot would still be echoing, and that noise would cover any noise the dog made.

3:53? You're sure it wasn't 3:52? Or maybe 3:54?

Again, regardless of the common practice in the area to let dogs roam free, dogs should be kept under control. There is plenty of wildlife in the area that would think a 6 lb dog would make a nice lunch.

Rest in Peace, Penny. :( I'm very sorry for your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. :(

Geez, whether or not you are Penny's owner, this a public forum. Articles like these are debated on and argued over all the time, unfortunately you the owner had to stumble upon it, but nonetheless this is stuff we debate about. I think everyone here is sorry that you no longer have Penny, and we know how you feel, but also that you need to be more responsible with your animals. Anything can happen to them if they are not properly secured, and you can't really blame your neighbor for it. They also have to be trained with an electric fence-you can't just throw them out there on the first day.

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Maybe you have no idea what it is like to be on ONE INCOME with two children and tons of bills from all the home repairs we put on credit cards.....BUT WE TRIED OUR BEST.

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You said yourself you are a "certified mental health therapist" and that your husband gets up at 3:30 in the morning to go to work....that's two incomes. Please don't lie. I find it also fishy how your mother walked by and heard a moan if there was so much damage done-she should have her a gunshot, and then silence.

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Originally Posted by PennysOwner

Maybe you have no idea what it is like to be on ONE INCOME with two children and tons of bills from all the home repairs we put on credit cards.....BUT WE TRIED OUR BEST.

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Are you serious? You honestly think no one on this board has ever been on one income with two children? There are folks on here, I'm sure with NO income, with four children, etc. There's are folks on here who have at times been homeless.

A dog is a luxury. If you cannot afford to care for a pet properly, don't get one. And keeping a pet contained safely so that it cannot harm itself or other animals or humans is most definately a big part of that responsibility.

I know I have had financial stuggles and hard times in the past. It NEVER prevented me from taking care of my pets. I commited to them, and caring for them is my responsibility and no one else's.

You asked people for free fencing, and it seems to me you are implying that it is somehow other people's fault your dog was killed ... because they did not supply you with free fencing quickly enough. I find that absurd. You didn't have to fence your entire yard all at once. There were many, many options your family could have done instead of doing nothing at all while waiting for someone to supply you with free fencing. An X pen, fencing only a small corner to begin with, a tie out, a walk on a $2 leash.

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Originally Posted by PennysOwner

MY DOG HAS NEVER HARMED OR ATTEMPTED TO HARM HIS ANIMALS!!!!!!!!! GET A POLICE REPORT FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!!! WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE, IS THE FACT THAT THIS MAN KILLED MY DOG WHEN SHE WASENT DOING ANYTHING WRONG. The felony law needs to be changed so that if someone kills a domestic pet FOR NO REASON, they are charged with a FELONY. My dog was not doing anything. I cannot tell you anything about how I feel about a dog that was attacking chickens, because that is not the case in this matter.

As for the moan, I did not say I heard it. I said my mother heard it while walking behind his property with my son. According to the police report the man says he was standing inside his homes doorway when he fired the weapon. I am not sure of a silencer.

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I think you need to take a step back and look at what you are saying! I know that you are mourning the loss of your family pet but pick up a paper tomorrow and see how many articles you can find about someone being attacked by a dog running at large.

If your dog had gotten loose ONCE, then maybe we would feel really bad for you. But all the facts that we have seen shows that your dog got out frequently. That, my dear, is the definition of irresponsible ownership.

I AM a single mom and the rent for my apartment is 2/3rds of my monthly income. And yet my dog eats good food and has NEVER been outside off a leash in an unenclosed area.

IMHO - dog owners who's dog threaten someone's person or property should be charged with a felony.

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You must not be a parent if you do not understand why we already have a new puppy.

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ARE YOU KIDDING!?!

Dogs/puppies aren't toys to be replaced when they are broken! They are living, breathing creatures. When our family's rottweiler died of cancer, we waited months for the perfect dog for our family to come along.

Sorry, but I think you are wrong on many levels here.

Twisterdog and Lilacsdragon, I just want to give your last two posts standing ovations.



And Penny'sOwner... it's fine and your prerogative to not feel the need to give any source or back-up for your 'expert analysis'. Just don't expect anyone else to place any stock in a completely unverifiable assertion like that.

You were actually home when Penny died and just "assumed" she was safe and contained, even though you did notice she was not going along for the walk which apparently was out of the ordinary for her. Even though you knew you were waiting around for someone on Craig'slist to give you free materials to even make it possible for her to really be contained you didn't bother to check if she was. You made no attempt to locate her or make sure she really was around. For that, you need to stop asserting your mother's negligence. Penny was not your mother's dog. Penny was not your mother's responsibility.



Like I said before, just please please no excuses or waiting, make your puppy safe and secure. You owe it to both of your dogs. I think that would better serve Penny's memory than trying to pass legislation that protects those who flaunt the leash laws and punishes those who choose to defend their own animals from intruding predators.

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Originally Posted by LilacDragon

ARE YOU KIDDING!?!

Dogs/puppies aren't toys to be replaced when they are broken!

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Permission to tattoo that across the foreheads of a few people I know?