Watching the Results...

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Originally posted by K9soul
I think there's a fine line between not pushing religious beliefs on people and not allowing them to freely express their religion. I don't think a public school should have crosses or religious symbols on the wall, but I feel kids should be able to wear a cross or whatever religious symbol they wish to if they want to express their religion. I don't think a public school should enforce prayer at lunch time, but I think a kid should be able to say a prayer before lunch if they want to without getting harassed or told not to. I'm all for individual expression as long as it is peaceful. It seems to me in some of the efforts to keep religion out of school, they are actually supressing any individual expression of it at all. I always looked on the ability to express whatever faith you were as one of the freedoms of this country.

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Very well said...and i will end my comments on this topic here :)

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Originally posted by Christiansmommy
I am not Pagan. You are clearly a non-Christian, so if something of Christianity has been removed from the school systems at the present time, it must make you feel some what relieved ( so are you saying it is better that Christian kids now have to refrain from uplifting their God in school) ...b/c you didn't believe in it being said in the first...since you are a non-christian...just as i feel, as a Christian, the PLedge should remain in the public schools, why, b/c i am a Christian....

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I am not saying that people shouldn't be free to their own religious forms of expression, however I am still seeking an answer to my question, which you have dodged answering yet again.

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Originally posted by Uabassoon
Hmm 50 years ago the majority of women didn't have jobs and weren't really given equal rights, blacks and whites couldn't attend classes together do you also think this had led to the school system going downhill? There is a reason why Christian schools exist. If you want your child praying in school then send him to a school where he can pray, but it shouldn't be forced upon people. My parents wanted me to learn catholic values so they sent me to catholic school. They didn't complain about how horrible the school system was because of lack of religion. Or maybe that was because both of them are public educators.

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Gosh my response could fill a page in response to your first sentence, but I will spare you. :) I was hoping that with the end of the election peace would return to Pet Talk. My only comment is that my husband and I did send both of our children to a Christian school because we were tired of them being taught things at school that were contradictory to what we were teaching them at home. To do this cost us over $500 a month for several years and that was 10 years ago. I can't even imagine what it costs today. My hubby often said that we had to pay for freedom FROM our public schools. I didn't expect them to learn religion in public schools but I didn't want the secular school system telling them what to believe either. Oh, and I was in school 50 years ago (I was 7 years old). We had Bible reading each morning (from the Old Testament) and prayer right along with the flag salute and this was in a public school. We also learned about all religions and celebrated Christmas and Hanukkah openly. I am sure had there been any Muslims in the school system (there were none back then in my community) that their holidays would have been observed as well. By the way, our schools were closed for the high Jewish holidays back then too because my community had a large Jewish population. I feel that the demographics of your area has a lot to do with things. See, aren't you glad I didn't get wordy? :p

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Originally posted by Maresche
The thought is Christians choose these symbols to represent Christmas and Easter because they would be familar to the pagans they were trying to convert. She may have used the word stole instead of borrow because Christians in general often don't acknowledge that those symbols were originally pagan and didn't come from the Bible or other Christian source.

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Yeah I understand the pagan stories for the holidays.. i just wanted to make sure that you don't believe our whole religion is based on stealing pagan stories and turning them into our beliefs..:)

Just a random note to maybe get a few chuckles....I often wish we had the days AFTER pagan holidays off, because usually any ritual I choose to celebrate with is performed late at night!! :D :D :D

(That goes back to when pagans were actively prosecuted and had to really hide their faith...and it's just become tradition now for some people)

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
Yeah I understand the pagan stories for the holidays.. i just wanted to make sure that you don't believe our whole religion is based on stealing pagan stories and turning them into our beliefs..:)

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Nope, just a good chunk of the holidays. :)

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Originally posted by WolfChan
Nope, just a good chunk of the holidays. :)

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please don't think im this nieve... i really am trying to be smart *lol*
So pagans believe the christian belief was formed from taking pagan holidays and forming them into a religion ... that Jesus never existed????

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I feel that the demographics of your area has a lot to do with things.

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I agree with this. However I don't think that 50 years ago in other parts of the U.S. like the south and midwest students were taught the same way (however I would be happy to be proved wrong, I'd love to know that 50 years ago in other parts of the U.S. other cultures and religions were shared). I know that in Texas (where I grew up) it would have been unheard of to have given Jewish holidays off. I mean a student would get an excused abscense but that's about it.

Goddess, no, I do think he existed. I just think they got the dates a little off. :)

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Originally posted by popcornbird
I don't think that's what she meant. I think she meant Christmas and Easter were originally Pagan traditions, and the Christians adopted their way of celebrations and took them as their own, associating them with Jesus. I don't think Jesus used to celebrate Christmas, so where else do the Christians get it from? :confused:

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Yes! Thank you, I can't seem to word things correctly sometimes. :)

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
please don't think im this nieve... i really am trying to be smart *lol*
So pagans believe the christian belief was formed from taking pagan holidays and forming them into a religion ... that Jesus never existed????

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No no no. :)

There was a time, long ago when there were more pagans than Christians. The Christians needed a way to try and convert the pagans. So, they took the Pagan holiday of Yule (Dec. 21st) and told everyone that Jesus was born on Dec. 24th and that they needed to celebrate it.

Yule was quickly buried under the rising holiday, Christmas. Yule Tide greetings is from the pagan tradition. As well as decorating a tree and such. These symbols were adopted by Christians and incorporated into the Christmas holiday they created. As far as I know, Jesus wasn't born in Dec.


and I think I'm only going to make Sara more confused. LOL!

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Originally posted by WolfChan
Goddess, no, I do think he existed. I just think they got the dates a little off. :)

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:D :D
thanks for the info!

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I don't think Jesus used to celebrate Christmas, so where else do the Christians get it from?

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Well a Christian's celebration of Christmas is supposed to be celebrating Jesus's birth. I don't know that he would celebrate his own birth?

I sure don't like celebrating my birthday :D

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Originally posted by ramanth
No no no. :)

There was a time, long ago when there were more pagans than Christians. The Christians needed a way to try and convert the pagans. So, they took the Pagan holiday of Yule (Dec. 21st) and told everyone that Jesus was born on Dec. 24th and that they needed to celebrate it.

Yule was quickly buried under the rising holiday, Christmas. Yule Tide greetings is from the pagan tradition. As well as decorating a tree and such. These symbols were adopted by Christians and incorporated into the Christmas holiday they created. As far as I know, Jesus wasn't born in Dec.

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Yeah i believe that Jesus was actually born in September...
thanks you guys for being so nice in clearing that up for me.

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Originally posted by ramanth
As far as I know, Jesus wasn't born in Dec.

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I thought I had heard this too, but I didn't want to bring it up since I know little about it.

The links I posted actually got the old stories a bit wring form the original holiday....the Sun God, the Holly King, the Horned God, whatever you call him by, goes through an annual cycle of death and rebirth according to my faith, and the Yule celebration was a celebration of his emminent rebirth and th elonger brighter days that accompanied it. :) I seriously doubt the old-time pagans actually thought that if the didn't celebrate the sun would be gone for good. :P