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Why does it bother you? Just curious.Quote:
Originally posted by Tonya
I would never go. Horse racing bothers me also. I can't say that I hate the people that do Greyhound racing because I know nothing about it. But I am not the least bit interested in finding out.
I'd like to hear some of the new Greyhound lovers thoughts
about this Greyhound site. http://www.greyhounds.org/
You can skip the intro if you like & get right to the informational
pages. Please read all of it and then give some honest opinions.
:o Oh boy this should be fun....;)
Sensationalism...Quote:
Originally posted by lizbud
I'd like to hear some of the new Greyhound lovers thoughts
about this Greyhound site. http://www.greyhounds.org/
You can skip the intro if you like & get right to the informational
pages. Please read all of it and then give some honest opinions.
Negative propaganda at its best...
I believe that even the average anti-racing fan with any real knowledge will take the info presented there with a grain of salt. Those, however, who know nothing about the greyhound world are liable to believe, and pervertedly enjoy wallowing in, and spreading this gross misrepresentation of the facts.
Why do they want to end greyhound racing? Serious question. What would be the benefit?
If you skim this thread, the acronym GPL comes up quite often. I think you'll get a pretty clear picture of some of our opinions... Anyhow, I'll just say GPL is PeTA for Greyhounds.
I would *guess* less greyhounds bred? Since alot are bred for racing?Quote:
Originally posted by micki76
Why do they want to end greyhound racing? Serious question. What would be the benefit?
Not the same but...Quote:
Originally posted by micki76
Why do they want to end greyhound racing? Serious question. What would be the benefit?
Why do they want to ban Pit bulls? What would be the benefit of banning pitties? Honestly, I think people push this out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing too far.
No, I mean what does GPL gain by banning greyhound racing? Sorry if I wasn't clear.Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
Not the same but...
Why do they want to ban Pit bulls? What would be the benefit of banning pitties? Honestly, I think people push this out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing too far.
In this case "informational pages" is a misnomer.Quote:
Originally posted by lizbud
I'd like to hear some of the new Greyhound lovers thoughts
about this Greyhound site. http://www.greyhounds.org/
You can skip the intro if you like & get right to the informational
pages. Please read all of it and then give some honest opinions.
GPL is the PETA of the greyhound world. They are the lunatic fringe, the zealots of the greyhound world.
They extrapolate unusual incidents into industry-wide standards. They often invent problems where there are none at all. They exaggerate every number several-fold.
Two of their pillars of belief, puppy culling and the controversy they've created over "4D" meat do not exist at all. Their knowledge of greyhound racing is pitifully small.
It should be noted that GPL is not an adoption or rescue organization. Money sent to them goes to fund their political efforts to get racing banned.
If you have specific questions about their website let me know---I could write a book about the inconsistencies there, but I don't have room for it here.
It's not a matter of gain---it's hard to measure the motivation of a zealot. What does PETA have to gain from banning meat from our diet? It's a nebulous question. I think some people just need to have a cause.Quote:
Originally posted by micki76
No, I mean what does GPL gain by banning greyhound racing? Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Ok. Now you're making blanket statements and saying none of this exists at all. I'm sorry, but surely you must admit that it does happen to some extent. I'm sure there's all level of corruption in Greyhound racing, just as there is in horse racing and other sports that involve humans, money, and anything (or anyone) who can't speak up for themselves.Quote:
Originally posted by jcsperson
Two of their pillars of belief, puppy culling and the controversy they've created over "4D" meat do not exist at all. Their knowledge of greyhound racing is pitifully small.
I hope that doesn't come accross as an attack, I just felt that was an innacurate statement. I realize that not all tracks are evil, or staffed with dog killers, but to close your eyes and say it's all great and nothing the other side says is true, is burying your head in the sand as I stated earlier.
I thought it was something along those lines, but I wasn't sure if they had anything tangible to actually gain from it.Quote:
Originally posted by jcsperson
It's not a matter of gain---it's hard to measure the motivation of a zealot. What does PETA have to gain from banning meat from our diet? It's a nebulous question. I think some people just need to have a cause.
I do not know what the "4D" meat controversy is about, but the puppy culling thing actually does sound very unlikely. Even someone who cared absolutely nothing about their dogs would not randomly kill puppies before racing age since they can't tell how well they will race until nearly adults right? I wouldn't think you could tell how a dog would race as a little pup.Quote:
Two of their pillars of belief, puppy culling and the controversy they've created over "4D" meat do not exist at all.
My group was NOT AR. It was neutral.Quote:
Originally posted by jcsperson
One of the sources of continuing irritation and frustration for racing people who do it right are those in the business who do not. I think AR groups tend to see the worst dogs because they get the dogs that people are just handing over. As a result they tend to see a higher proportion of hard cases than PR groups.
You're indicating that PR groups get cash and medical tx for the dogs, while neutral and AR groups pick up the tab for everything else.
Let's stick with the issues of puppy culling and 4D meat for now to prevent this from going in several directions at once.Quote:
Originally posted by micki76
Ok. Now you're making blanket statements and saying none of this exists at all. I'm sorry, but surely you must admit that it does happen to some extent. I'm sure there's all level of corruption in Greyhound racing, just as there is in horse racing and other sports that involve humans, money, and anything (or anyone) who can't speak up for themselves.
I hope that doesn't come accross as an attack, I just felt that was an innacurate statement. I realize that not all tracks are evil, or staffed with dog killers, but to close your eyes and say it's all great and nothing the other side says is true, is burying your head in the sand as I stated earlier.
Puppy Culling
"As of 2001, the Greyhound Protection League estimated close to 27,000 dogs were registered to race, most born at professional breeding farms. In 2001, close to 18,000 puppies and adult greyhounds were culled or killed, according to the organization."
There is no need to estimate the numbers of dogs registered. The figures are published monthly in Greyhound Review:
2003 26,277
2002 27,142
2001 26,797
2000 26,464
1999 27,059
1998 26,036
1997 28,025
1996 28,877
Note that there has been a downward trend in registrations over the years. Historically, 80% of all pups whelped are registered. In the only five year span I could find recorded, here are the actual whelpings:
2000 34,141
1999 33,256
1998 35,801
1997 35,730
1996 36,688
Using the 2,000 figures as an example, GPL simply subtracts 26,464 from 34,141 and assumes that 7,677 pups were "culled." They do not take into account that every birth, whether stillborn or not, every puppy, whether sickly or not, is factored into that 34,141 figure. Puppy mortality in dogs can be as high as 30%, higher in small breeds, but is typically 15-25 percent. If you do the math on our 2000 example the number is 22.5%. According to the AR crowd, all these puppies were "culled." Additionally, a number of puppies who are obviously unsuitable for the track are sold as pets. These, of course, were "culled," too.
"Puppy culling" is one of the central myths of the Anti-Racing movement. It is the only way they can make their numbers work. The truth is that there is no possible reason to cull puppies in greyhounds. In show dogs, a puppy with a coat color that is not to the breed standard is often destroyed. The only time a puppy will be euthanized at a greyhound farm is when it is born so sickly that its survivability is in doubt and the only question is how much suffering it will endure. At the farm where my greyhounds were raised the farmer goes to extreme measures to save every sick puppy. One such puppy slept in her bed for three weeks until healthy enough to return to his dam. His name is Express Scrapper and he went on to finish third in the 2003 Great Greyhound Race to future Hall-of-Famer EA's Itzaboy. He earned his name Scrapper because of his will to live.
A good dam will cost you $1,000 to $15,000. The breeding to a top sire costs $1,000 to $3,000. The Artificial Implantation fees are around $500. Transportation of the bitch to the sire and back by truck could be $200 depending on distance---by air even more. With up-front costs that could range from $3,000 to $20,000, why would anyone cull the results? Furthermore, pups at the most recent NGA auction fetched $2,500 to $51,000. Why would someone deprive themselves of this income potential? The belief in culling by the AR movement is unfounded, confounding and illogical.
4D meat
The much derided 4D meat (Dead, Decaying, Diseased, Disabled) is a favorite of the AR crowd who do not understand what it is. It is, in fact, any meat not approved for human use. Imagine a line of steers at a slaughterhouse. While in line, a cow falls over and dies of an aneurysm. It could be dragged ten feet into the building and butchered, but is officially unfit for human consumption by the USDA because it died and was not killed. The primary buyer of 4D meat is the pet food induustry. If you use a premium brand of dog food, you fed some to your pet today.
My farmer friend's husband had duties out of town so I volunteered to help pick up a load of beef from a slaughterhouse to take to her farm, a ton in all. We got a little tour of the facility inculding the "kill" floor where several carcasses were being cut up by workers with electric chainsaws suspended from overhead racks. The meat was loaded on pallets and rolled directly to the grinder and then directly into the freezer. From there, the meat was delivered to greyhound kennels, farms and dogfood manufacturers by refrigerated trucks.
To me, the most interesting part of the tour was meeting a USDA inspector. He was there taking samples of the brains of every cow to inspect for Mad Cow Disease. I thought it was especially interesting that they were inspecting for Mad Cow even though none of the meat at this facility was destined for human consumption.
You might also be interested to know that the USDA has mandated that charcoal chips are mixed in with 4D meat to render it unpalatable to human consumption. It seems that many people know that 4D meat is really no different than regular ground beef and found the cost at 20% of grocery store prices appealing.