Beef again last night, stew meat actually. Tonight> You guessed it, beef again. lol
(getting lots of venison tonight as well as some chicken & organs)
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Beef again last night, stew meat actually. Tonight> You guessed it, beef again. lol
(getting lots of venison tonight as well as some chicken & organs)
They all had...
1 cup Kirkland Dog Food
2 spoonfulls Kirkland Can Food
Buck had beef tongue and a chicken quarter at lunch time.
For dinner everyone had 1/2 lb Beef heart, 1 chicken heart, 1 chicken liver, and 1 chicken gizzard. Mandy also had a small can of tuna to mix in her supplement.
my 2 will be fasting for one meal today (their breakfast), since we are going to the lake in about an hour
dinner tonight: Beef ribs and chicken drumsticks
im confused i have always heard that feeding your dog "human food" was bad for them. one of my closest friends dog got stomach cancer for that. i have always heard from vets that ekanuba and iams was the best for them.
Eukanuba and iams?? no, they are definatly NOT the best food for dogs...raw foods and "people" foods are a bit diffrent..im not feeding my dogs spaghetti and meatballs or mcdonalds..lol..a raw diet consists of RAW meat (and raw vegetables for some people)..never cooked..its extremly healthy for dogs here are some links :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sooby707
http://www.rawfeddogs.net/
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/bigpicture.html
http://www.rawfed.com/
ohhhhhh ok thanx :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sooby707
Hi sooby707 - Welcome to Pet Talk!
You are very right, some "human foods" are VERY bady for dogs. Foods high in fats - gravy, greasy fried foods, etc - can kill a dog. The seasonings, butter, and greese we add to our foods are not good for us or our pups!
However, feeding a diet of all natural raw meats, fruits, and vegetables is completely fine, and in my opinion the best we can give our canines!
Eukanuba and Iams aren't the WORST dog foods, however there are many improvements from them. They certainly aren't the best for them.
Many veterinarians are very poorly educated on actual canine nutrition. In many cases they support and suggestive sell Eukanuba, Iams, Science Diet, etc. because those are the companies that put them thru college. You'll also notice those are the foods they sell in their offices.
If you have any questions on the raw food, or known as the B.A.R.F diet, please feel free to ask in this thread.
Kay
For breakfast my 3 had a puree of banana, eggs and yogurt. MMMM!! Tonight Grant will get his chicken quarter. Sadie and Maggie will have chicken too, but probably a drumstick or back. Last night Maggie and Sadie had turkey neck and Grant had his usual chicken quarter. I have seen tons of improvement in their teeth from this diet. :D I *may* have convinced my mom and aunt to start feeding their dogs this same diet.
"Human food" is not harmful. My critters expect the last mouth full of what ever I'm eating. The agreement is that if they leave me alone while I'm eating I'll share that last tidbit at the end. Tonight they got left over steak trimmings - after receiving their normal dog food 1 hr before.Quote:
Originally Posted by sooby707
Probably the stomach cancer occured because it was destined to occur.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding ekanuba, or iams, or any other other high quality dog food. I feed my 2-3 yr olds Large Puppy Propet formula (27% protein/15% fat). My previous dog got the same brand for 11 years in the performance and maintenance formula. The result has been dogs free of allergies, metabolic diseases, arthritis, gastro-intestinal disturbances, with high energy and over all good health. They usually will consume their food within 30-60 seconds after it is placed in the bowl, day after day, year after year. So much for the evils of commercial dog food.
Pick a premium dog food, and stick with it. A dog does best when its diet is constant. Anything else is just religion.
"There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding ekanuba, or iams, or any other other high quality dog food."
So, it's cool if we fed my little brother Cap'n Crunch for the rest of his life? :p Sw33t, I will consider it. He loves it, he would eat it every day, he would probably survive on it and have loads of hyper energy... sounds ok to me.
Keep in mind that variety is gooood. Just because dogs survive on kibbles does not mean there isn't plenty of room for improvement, there IS! I don't know why you're encouraging an owner who *does* question the ethics/information behind the massive, corporate, "popular", filler-packed brands to not look into improving her dogs diet. That is what this thread is about! Looking around and considering other ways instead of sticking to what is conventional/easy/familiar. People *should* know what they're putting into their pet's bodies, and they *should* inform themselves rather than listening to every word a conventional vet tells them.
You're right, there's nothing wrong with feeding high quality dog food, however Iams and Eukanuba do not fit in that catagory.
I was actually responding to someone who questioned whether or not "human food" was good for dogs.Quote:
I don't know why you're encouraging an owner who *does* question the ethics/information behind the massive, corporate, "popular", filler-packed brands to not look into improving her dogs diet.
As stated I have fed and continue to feed my dogs Propet dog food. Since Propet dog food is a subsidiary of Carnation, and Carnation is a subsidiary of Nestle would you not agree the brand of dog food could qualify as coming from a massive corporation? It's quite unclear what filler means? But let's just assume that Propet has this nasty filler. Let's also assume that it's popular - although it probably isn't. So having met all of your criteria, once again here's the status of my two dogs...
Palatability of the food. Do the dogs like eating the Propet food? Well if I ask them around feeding time: Are you hungry? Clover immediately lets out a sound of "woo woo woo", and runs to the kitchen, while Barney starts jumping up and down turning in circles, and races down the stairs to the kitchen. Again food hits bowl and it's gone in 30-60 seconds. Could it be possible they like their food? Now what should be mixed in it to get them to jump through glass windows on the way to their feeding bowls?
No allergies, food skin or otherwise. No digestive problems- outside of when Barney decides to go "raw diet" on a deer bone. High energy levels. No metabolic problems. No arthritis. Exactly how can I improve the health of dogs which are in perfect health by altering diet?
Since you don't seem to believe in conventional Vets, do you believe in the points made in this link given in another thread?
Raw vs Kibble
Every major point or category is easily refuted. How does one inform themselves using non-scientific articles?
My criteria was a brand with at least as high protein/fat as the so called name brands. And of course I wanted something the puppy dog would enjoy eating. Of course I eliminated Purina, Ole Roy as a matter of course. When I found Propet it was before Carnation bought it, and the brand name was Big Red. Ok not too much class to that name, but the ingrediants were in the right order, 30.15% Protein/Fat for the Performance formula, they guaranteed money back if the dog didn't like it, and it cost 1/2 the price of Science Diet, Eukanuba and the other more popular brands. It was a good fit, and any of the neighbor's dogs that I puppy sat also gobbled it down without complaint. So I've never really researched the pluses or negatives of Iams or Eukanuba. Never had the need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kfamr
I'm just astonished by some of these posts.
Well getting back on track here ...
Everyone had a lamb shank today.
They had EVO and yogurt this morning, and chicken quarters and tuna with a bit of olive oil tonight and later some banana as a treat.
I was at the grocery store earlier, unfortunately this one doesn't have near the variety of meats that I wish it did. They don't even sell cow's tongues or beef hearts and I KNOW the grocery store I grew up around had those things, I remember being grossed out by the cow's tongues as a kid :p. They do have beef liver and pig feet. They have pig neck bones too but they look kind of small and I was unsure about them. But there is a meat market near here that just opened not long ago, I'm going to stop in and see what they have.
I wanted to ask about kelp and flaxseed oil. Do you get these from health food type stores? I saw "kelp" in the holistic section of the store but it was in capsule form. I didn't see flaxseed oil at all.
I got my kelp from a pet supply store. Do you have any smaller, independent type pet stores around your area? A lot of the ones around here carry kelp and flax seed oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by K9soul
If you can't find flax seed oil, freshly ground flax seeds work too! :)
dragondawg-Just to make a point, liking the food doesn't matter.. My dogs like their kibble, but it's certainly not the best for them..
We used to but PetsMart and Petco put them all out of business :(. I can always look online and maybe order some too. Grinding up flax seeds would be easy as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by binka_nugget
I read kelp helps promote healthy thyroid. Tommy has Hashimoto's thyroiditis so I was particularly interested in trying that and seeing what it did.
I ran into my vet at the grocery store tonight at the banana/fruit area. I told him I was getting bananas for the dogs and he laughed LOL. I love my vet :D.
Oh boy.. my guys had lots today. Not a good day for dieting. =P
Since it was Kai's birthday, their meals consisted of Kai's favorites.
Breakfast:
Chicken Back & Egg
Dinner: Chicken Wings, chicken legs, turkey and kelp.
They also had lots of treats, and a piece of liver doggy cake.
Sardines in tomato sauce, apple, raw chicken, bok choy, a little rice, and a dog buscuit.
Chester had part of a chicken carcass, and goat meat today :)
Well I'm pet sitting and not at home until Wednesday. I brought Nova with me. She had a turkey thigh or something ... it was turkey, that's all I remember lol.
Well, if one has dogs in perfect health on the current diet of "kibble" then how does one judge it's not best for them? Any criteria or metrics that can be measured? Any scientific studies published in the major Vet journals which measured these criteria? If not then it comes down to personal opinion and something that borders on religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxyluvsme13
Eh, true I suppose. I'd still much rather feed Raw.. and you really just made me realize that even though Roxy's on one of the lowest quality kibble's out there, she's perfectly healthy..Quote:
Originally Posted by dragondawg
How do you judge perfect health though, becuse they don't look like they are dying on the outside? That does not mean a dog is in perfect health. Yes dogs CAN survive on low quality food, but that does not mean they are in perfect health, and that is not something you can judge just by looking at them. People can survive on junk food too, in fact many teenagers look perfectly healthy and live on sodas and candy and junk, doesn't mean they are pefectly healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragondawg
I agree Vela. Just because they seem to be healthy on the outside does not mean they are on the inside.
I mean.. lets think for a moment. McDonalds is the equivalent to Kibble N Bits. If you ate McDonalds everyday would you be healthy? NO.
I have no desire to get into a debate on raw vs kibble or even kibble vs kibble here, however I'd like to relate this personal tidbit.
My collies spent much of their lives sub-par kibbles. Not grocery store brands, but still not the best. Willie did great in shows and looked great, Cody was beautiful too, but they suffered a lot of problems as they got older that now I truly wonder if they had been on a more nutritious diet, they might have functioned better and even lived beyond their 12 and 13 years, which is still considered pretty good for a collie. Willie got to where he couldn't tolerate certain dog food kibbles and kept developing allergies to them when he got older. Cody had joint problems and weakness, by the end he couldn't get up on his own from laying down and needed help. Willie got ear infections and had eye problems and got bladder crystals and infections more frequently as he got older. They both had hot spots and skin problems. They were from completely different lines and were not related but they were both always on the same foods. They really started showing deterioration around 8 and even more after 10.
Like Cody, Tommy was forming some seborrheic cysts. He had one on his chin and one on his hip. He's about at the age Cody was when Cody started forming his. I moved them to Innova EVO this spring, a grain-free, by-product-free kibble, and three weeks ago switched them to raw dinners. A few days ago I was grooming Tommy, and to my amazement, the cyst on his chin was completely gone, and the cyst on his hip was almost gone. His coat is thicker than it ever has been and I continue to see evidence of changes since they went off grainy kibble. I don't need a scientific study to tell me what's what, I have only to use my thoughts on what makes sense and my own eyes on the differences it is making.
In my job in medical transcription, I've seen time and time again "scientifically studied" and approved drugs and treatments that suddenly have been found to be dangerous and pulled off the market/recalled. So I'm just personally wary and skeptical to let scientific studies determine my beliefs and choices in and of themselves.
By the way, I found this a pretty interesting article on raw and scientific studies, why there haven't been any and why there probably won't be.
http://rawfed.com/myths/research.html
Anyway, sorry for the long post here...
My two got turkey wings for breakfast. They're getting some ground beef and beef liver and banana/yogurt frosty paws later.
Vela,Quote:
Yes dogs CAN survive on low quality food, but that does not mean they are in perfect health, and that is not something you can judge just by looking at them.
Since one can not judge perfect health by looking, what is your criteria for judging whether your dog is in perfect health? How do you determine this? What are your specific metrics and diagnostics?
K9soul,
I have no idea whether the Propet dog food I feed my dogs is considered sub-par kibble or not. But in answer to the comment in your link:
I believe my previous dog which lived till 11 yrs of age, and the current two at 3 years of age far surpasses a 6 month feeding trial. I have no idea as to what the latest health claims Propet may be making for their product. What I do know is that my dogs flourish on the food. Mine have never had seborrheic cysts, bladder crystals, or persistent infections. They have never had a raw diet either. Now how do we explain the absence of these problems on a commercial dog food diet?Quote:
No research has been done to determine the long-term effects of feeding kibble, nor to determine if it is actually healthy for your dog (it is just assumed healthy because it has passed a 6 month feeding trial, and then manufacturers falsely advertise their product as healthy.).
You do realize that Collies are genetically prone to skin disorders, not to mention Progressive Retinal Atrophy, and Collie Eye Anomaly a syndrome that involves one or more of the following: retinal degeneration, cataract, and retinal detachment? That's genetics not food. In another words you could have gave them a steak every night for their 13 yrs, but that would not have changed the genetic make up of the dogs.
P.S. Yes my previous dog enjoyed frosty paws- almost as much as a bowl of ice cream.
As I said, I am not arguing YOUR kibble, or kibble vs raw. I'm saying I noticed a difference between the quality of kibble and diet my two are on now versus what they used to be on. I know nothing about your kibble, and my post was not at all directed at you specifically.
The eye problem wasn't the retinal atrophy that collies are prone to and they were both eye tested by their breeders as pups. It was conjuncitivitis/goopy type problems, that cleared up with medication. I also never claimed it was definitely their diet that "caused" the problems. I said I WONDERED if their diet had been better, if they would have not had the problems they did. They were not sickly dogs, but they did have problems as they got older that I wonder now if they had had a better diet, whether it be a better kibble, or raw, they might have had fewer problems.
As for my two now, I've witnessed their improvement since I changed them over from a grainier kibble, so I'm happy. I hope this clarifies my previous post a bit more. It was not intended to argue, but to provide my own thoughts and experiences. Take or leave anything from it you'd like ;)
Nebo had his first "raw" meal last friday. Not meals like you guys feed, I'm a chicken, I bought the pre-made stuff. :o It wasn't cheap but he sure loved it and so far no digestive upsets that I know of. I got the Nature's Variety Venison frozen raw. I bought two 3 lb bags I'm going to feed it every few days for now and see how he does...he'll get it again tomorrow.
The store I bought it from wasn't exactly close and it's very convenient for me to just buy dog food at my work (not to mention my 20% discount..) but I'm considering buying the dry dog food of the same brand (eventually feeding it/raw every other day). I'm just wondering if it's THAT much better to make it worth the extra expense? I know basic dog food stuff but I'm no expert so any imput is appreciated...
Ingredient list/info on Nature's Variety venison formula
Ingredient list/info on Natural Balance venison formula (currently feeding)
p.s. What is millet? Isn't that something you give to birds? :confused:
Amy, I think supplementing with raw every now and then is better than no raw at all. If you have the finances then I'd continue doing it. :)
Millets are seeds, I think.
Nova had beef heart and beef brisket this morning.
For both meals yesterday & this mornings breakfast my goys all split a huge deer leg. (don't worry I took it away this morning once they got all the meat off of it).
Last night they ate just a little bit of venison, not too much though as it was so hot out.
This morning they had a big meal to make up for it, venison, beef & liver.
Tonight will be a small meal again as it is even hotter out than it was yesterday. It will consist of beef, beef heart & venison.
Nova had half of a chicken.
All three had whole Trout.
I had 2 whole trout outside between the two of them. Nala ate about a whole one, Kiara & Simba ate halves. I let them decide how much they wanted, and they both left what they didn't want and Nala took it.
So, its safe to feed them trout? Do you give them the heads and tails? My son has around 20 trout in his freezer I'm sure he would give me some for the fur kids. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadapit
Yep! Trout is fine. :) That's the only fish, other than canned tuna, that my three have had. Before I gave them filets of trout.
They got every single piece of the fish. :)
When we filet the fish we catch for ourselves, I have my brother save the remains. They can eat that, too.
Mine had their first raw dinner tonight, i gave them each a chicken drumstick. For breakfast they had EVO. I will expand their diets slowly, thanks to his helpful thead! It has some great ideas...thanks for posting to it!
The Nature's Variety definatly has better ingredients -- it has venison meal instead of just venison. :) Because Natural Balance just uses venison as the first ingredient, which brings it down to the fifth or sixth ingrdient (as plain venison is 70-80% moisture), the first two ingredients are actually grains. Natural Balance still uses human grade ingredients though. I've used their Duck & Potato formula before, Visa did fairly well on it. I also give her the Nature's Variety raw medallions as treats, she really enjoys them! If you buy a big bag of the Nature's Variety kibble, there's a coupon on the side for $2 your next Nature's Variety purchase, 3 pounds and up, so even if you decide not to stick to the kibble, you always get two bucks off your next raw purchase. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_Q