Christiansmommy-- I will just have to disagree with you on that point though I do see where you are coming from to some degree.
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Christiansmommy-- I will just have to disagree with you on that point though I do see where you are coming from to some degree.
Our children don't get religion at school, and yes, that makes me sad that they can't pray the way that we did when I was a kid, but they get it from us, which is the most important. Robyn, I'm sure that your children will get the same from you and Rob as they grow up in your home. Manners, religion, respect should not be learned from our school systems, they should be taught in our homes, starting with the parents, with reinforcement from the religious bodies that we embrace. Our children need to be educated on many beliefs, and then choose for themselves the way in which they want to live. All we can do is guide them in the direction that we believe is best.
Okay, I'm confused here....are you actually saying that you think things were better when pagan kids had to go to school and listen to drivel about a religion that would never be a part of their lives? I'm not trying to stir anything up, I'm genuinely baffled. (And I only used pagans as an example becuase it pertains to me, but I mean all non-mainstream faiths)
They may not get religion from school, but the example of what the school systems were like 50 years ago, when God WAS allowed to be mentioned and His morals were taught, and the example of what school systems are like today, where He is being taken out of them...50 years ago, there was less crime, less drugs, less tragity, unlike today, where God has been removed, things start to fall apart...no God in schools, then the school systems are bound to fall...just like anything...if God becomes totally absent from this world, that is when it will all fall to pieces...just wanted to clarify...i know it is the parents responsibility to teach the kids morals and regious beliefs, but i was just trying to explain " the proof in the pudding", take God out of schools, watch the schoods crumble even more and lose even more values...Quote:
Originally posted by Logan
Our children don't get religion at school, and yes, that makes me sad that they can't pray the way that we did when I was a kid, but they get it from us, which is the most important. Robyn, I'm sure that your children will get the same from you and Rob as they grow up in your home. Manners, religion, respect should not be learned from our school systems, they should be taught in our homes, starting with the parents, with reinforcement from the religious bodies that we embrace. Our children need to be educated on many beliefs, and then choose for themselves the way in which they want to live. All we can do is guide them in the direction that we believe is best.
Quote:
Originally posted by WolfChan
So you're saying that just because we took your deity out of schools the school system is going downhill? That's a bit of a leap.
In the winter, the instances of drowning decrease. Also, drinking of hot beverages goes up. Are we then to assume that drinking hot beverages reduces your risk of drowning? The two things correspond, but are not correlated.
What were schools like 50 years ago? Can you say Brown vs Board of Ed? Can you say McCarthyism? Please let's don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.Quote:
Originally posted by Christiansmommy
Yes, you still have the option to teach religion in your own home, but that isn't the issue here...what were the schools like 50 years ago? And what are they like now? What is different? God was a common place back then, a standard in the majority of people's everyday lives ( in their homes and in school)...today, He is being dismissed...you can come up with any excuse you can find, that could be responsible for making this society have such a tragic downfall...but the bottom line is, the world is lacking one thing ( that is didn't lack 50 years ago), and as long as we continue to erase God from our everyday lives...this world is in danger.
YiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiKES!
I believe in God and am a very faithful person, so I hope I am not attacked as being otherwise ... But I do not believe that religion was the groundwork of schooling and the only thing holding it together.
I agree 100% with Logan's post:
Quote:
Our children don't get religion at school, and yes, that makes me sad that they can't pray the way that we did when I was a kid, but they get it from us, which is the most important. Robyn, I'm sure that your children will get the same from you and Rob as they grow up in your home. Manners, religion, respect should not be learned from our school systems, they should be taught in our homes, starting with the parents, with reinforcement from the religious bodies that we embrace. Our children need to be educated on many beliefs, and then choose for themselves the way in which they want to live. All we can do is guide them in the direction that we believe is best.
As others have said, I believe that religion should NOT be a part of school unless every single religion is taught .. and only then as an educational tool .. not practiced regularly. Religion should be practiced at home. I believe that people should be allowed to wear crosses and other religious symbols as they please though.
Yes, our schooling and home life in general has gone way downhill, but I don't think that can be attributed to any one factor. I actually think it has a lot to do with the advancement of technology myself. Neither of my parents even had television sets when they were young. They played outside and read books. There were no Nintendos or computers to sit in front of all day long. I think the parents who sit their kids in front of a TV, computer, or Nintendo so they won't have to deal with them are the cause of the downfall.
I am not saying that the book of Romans, John, Acts, etc, from the Bible should be preached to kids in school, but simple things like the pledge of allegience, that were a common place...i feel it should be able to be said, if you don't believe in it, then refrain from saying it...but don't tell Christians that they can't say it ....and don't tell Christians that they have to cover their cross when they enter the school, like i think Samatha Puppy was told ( to cover her crusifix), then a Pagan, shouldn't be able to wear something exemplifing their religion, neither should a Jewish person, etc...Quote:
Originally posted by WolfChan
Okay, I'm confused here....are you actually saying that you think things were better when pagan kids had to go to school and listen to drivel about a religion that would never be a part of their lives? I'm not trying to stir anything up, I'm genuinely baffled. (And I only used pagans as an example becuase it pertains to me, but I mean all non-mainstream faiths)
For instance, I have attended Catholic sevices during weddings i have been invited to, i am not Catholic...when prayers are being resited, i refrain from saying them...that is not how I practice my religion...so i reserve the right to refrain from saying them...
All i was saying, is that i feel that it is quite evident that with every little ounce of God being removed from schools, and society as a whole, the world is slowly becoming a more tragic place to live in, then say, 50 years back, when it was evident that God was in control of many people's lives and the schools respected Him....things were just more moral and safe.
Great post Aly, I'm definitely in agreement!
You did not answer my question....Do you actually think things were better when non-Christian kids had to sit and feel left out and possibly looked down upon because their faith was not represented while this other faith was?Quote:
Originally posted by Christiansmommy
All i was saying, is that i feel that it is quite evident that with every little ounce of God being removed from schools, and society as a whole, the world is slowly becoming a more tragic place to live in, then say, 50 years back, when it was evident that God was in control of many people's lives and the schools respected Him....things were just more moral and safe.
Hmm 50 years ago the majority of women didn't have jobs and weren't really given equal rights, blacks and whites couldn't attend classes together do you also think this had led to the school system going downhill? There is a reason why Christian schools exist. If you want your child praying in school then send him to a school where he can pray, but it shouldn't be forced upon people. My parents wanted me to learn catholic values so they sent me to catholic school. They didn't complain about how horrible the school system was because of lack of religion. Or maybe that was because both of them are public educators.
This is a sad, uninformed commentary, but 50 years ago (before I was born), I think Christianity was probably the most recognized religion in the US and there wasn't as much diversity within religion evident in this country, with other people demanding to be recognized. Now they do, and rightfully so!Quote:
Originally posted by WolfChan
You did not answer my question....Do you actually think things were better when non-Christian kids had to sit and feel left out and possibly looked down upon because their faith was not represented while this other faith was?
You're right, Robyn, in that the world was different then, and we didn't have the same concerns that we have now, but we had other ones, like civil rights and many other worthy causes.
I still hold strongly to my belief that the best lessons our children learn are learned at home, with us.
Best intentions.
Logan
I think there's a fine line between not pushing religious beliefs on people and not allowing them to freely express their religion. I don't think a public school should have crosses or religious symbols on the wall, but I feel kids should be able to wear a cross or whatever religious symbol they wish to if they want to express their religion. I don't think a public school should enforce prayer at lunch time, but I think a kid should be able to say a prayer before lunch if they want to without getting harassed or told not to. I'm all for individual expression as long as it is peaceful. It seems to me in some of the efforts to keep religion out of school, they are actually supressing any individual expression of it at all. I always looked on the ability to express whatever faith you were as one of the freedoms of this country.
I very much see the point others have made about granting holidays on Christian religious days and not other religions' holy days. I would think something like a set amount of vacation days where kids could choose which days they used would be good, but it'd be hard to set something like that up and have staff available at all times. I am not sure how this problem could be addressed without taking all holidays away and just setting up generic days off that had nothing to do with religion.
I am not Pagan. You are clearly a non-Christian, so if something of Christianity has been removed from the school systems at the present time, it must make you feel some what relieved ( so are you saying it is better that Christian kids now have to refrain from uplifting their God in school) ...b/c you didn't believe in it being said in the first...since you are a non-christian...just as i feel, as a Christian, the PLedge should remain in the public schools, why, b/c i am a Christian....Quote:
Originally posted by WolfChan
You did not answer my question....Do you actually think things were better when non-Christian kids had to sit and feel left out and possibly looked down upon because their faith was not represented while this other faith was?
We will need to agree to disagree.
I am not a fan of the dog house ..so i will end this kindly...to each his own. I agree to disagree on this one.
I 100% agree with you on that.Quote:
Originally posted by Logan
I still hold strongly to my belief that the best lessons our children learn are learned at home, with us.