Watching the Results...

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Originally posted by Maresche

Christianity surrounds us everyday of our lives in this country. Around Christmas and Easter time, you cannot walk into any store without seeing Christmas trees or Easter eggs. (True, this really has a lot to do with the commercialization of our country), but my point is, this is done for Christian holidays, not Yom Kippur or Ramadan.

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Actually, Easter eggs were originally a pagan tradition from the spring festival, Ostara. Christmas and Easter are both adaptations of pagan holidays that the Christians stole to make it easier to convert pagans in the old days. :)

Hallowe'en = Samhain
May Day = Beltane

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Originally posted by WolfChan
Actually, Easter eggs were originally a pagan tradition from the spring festival, Ostara. Christmas and Easter are both adaptations of pagan holidays that the Christians stole to make it easier to convert pagans in the old days. :)

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Actually I did know that. I only used them as examples because they are some of the more common symbols and most associate them with Christianity than with pagan traditions.

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Originally posted by WolfChan
Actually, Easter eggs were originally a pagan tradition from the spring festival, Ostara. Christmas and Easter are both adaptations of pagan holidays that the Christians stole to make it easier to convert pagans in the old days. :)

Hallowe'en = Samhain
May Day = Beltane

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I am not so sure what you mean...
Christmas is the birth of Jesus..:confused:
and Easter the ressurection of Jesus :confused:

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
I am not so sure what you mean...
Christmas is the birth of Jesus..:confused:
and Easter the ressurection of Jesus :confused:

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Actually if you do some research you'll learn that orginally Easter was a pagan holiday. During the crusades the pagans wanted to keep their holidays so as sort of a happy medium they kept their holidays just changed it so the focus was on Jesus instead. If you read the bible you will also notice that Jesus wasn't born in December, but we celebrate it then because of an old pagan holiday.

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Originally posted by Uabassoon
Actually if you do some research you'll learn that orginally Easter was a pagan holiday. During the crusades the pagans wanted to keep their holidays so as sort of a happy medium they kept their holidays just changed it so the focus was on Jesus instead. If you read the bible you will also notice that Jesus wasn't born in December, but we celebrate it then because of an old pagan holiday.

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I understand that but... i was questioning why she said the christians "stole"it...


btw... your siggy with Tibby and Corckscrew is super cute!:D

If you don't mind Sara, I'll let Wolfchan answer this because I think she understands more about this than I do.

The basics, as I understand them, are that the pagan traditions has holidays at similar times of year to the Christian holidays Christmas and Easter (I think they are the Winter Solstice and Spring Equinox) and in the pagan tradition the Winter Solstice is associated with decorated trees and the Spring Equinox with eggs as signs of new life. So those symbols, trees and eggs, are shared by both faiths.

Does that explanation make any sense?

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
I understand that but... i was questioning why she said the christians "stole"it...

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The thought is Christians choose these symbols to represent Christmas and Easter because they would be familar to the pagans they were trying to convert. She may have used the word stole instead of borrow because Christians in general often don't acknowledge that those symbols were originally pagan and didn't come from the Bible or other Christian source.

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky

btw... your siggy with Tibby and Corckscrew is super cute!:D

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Thanks, Kay made the siggy and I really love it :)

A quick search turned up dozens fo results, most of them from Christian websites, stating that Christmas was origanally a pagan holiday. Christians wanted to convers the pagans, so they took the celebreation of the rebirth of the Sun God, and said "Wait, no look! Our deity was born then too, he's the same as your deity! " Or something to that effect. ;) Here's a few links if you're interested...

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/dec6/9te085.html

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/...xmas/celeb.htm

The pagans were manipulated into giving up their celebrations in leiu of these new Christian celebrations. That is why I say these holidays were stolen.

I personally find the story of the death and rebirth of the Holly King to be among the most beutiful and touching I have ever come across, probably much the way that many Christians feel about Jesus' story. I resent that celebration being taken away from my ancestors for so long, and I take joy in bringing it back to life every year.

I have not read every single post here, but the one thing that really seems to amaze me is...we have a bunch of psychics on this board, that seem to know that, had Gore been elected 4 years ago, that 9-11 wouldn't have happened? How anyone can blame Bush for 9-11...it is beyond me...

And to those of you who say that christianity is being "pushed" at you...and that is why you feel it shouldn't be mentioned (religion) in public schools, there are always 2 sides to the argument...what about us Christians, who are opposed to evolution, why should our children have to read about that in public schools, reguardless if you are calling it a science, and not a religion, we don't believe, period, it completely goes against what OUR religion teaches...

Look back 50 years ago, God was allowed to be mentioned in schools, and was a part of people's lives, and prayer was acceptable in schools, maybe even taught by the teachers...and there were morals and there weren't issues like gun shootings and the crime levels weren't so high and the drugs didn't overwhelm schools like they do now...the difference now...God is slowly being taken out of schools, out of our everyday lives, and the world is in trouble...big shocker...sadly, the pattern here, is America has lost it's values by taking religion out of schools...the proof is in the pudding...what are we doing wrong and lacking from schools, and everyday life, to make this world today seem so wrong, and in more trouble than this world, say, 50 years ago was...well, God is what is missing...someday, everyone will see it...right now, it is going to an ongoing argument...

In a side note.

Prop 71 in Cah lee fuh nee ah funding stem cell research was passed.

Ahrnold endorsed this bill!!!

Ahrnold in '08....


It's never too early to start!:rolleyes:

So you're saying that just because we took your deity out of schools the school system is going downhill? Tha'ts a bit of a leap.

In the winter, the instances of drowning decrease. Also, drinking of hot beverages goes up. Are we then to assume that drinking hot beverages reduces your risk of drowning? The two things correspond, but are not correlated.

Personally I don't feel God is missing from anything. Teaching your children your religious beliefs at home is an option to everyone. It is just my belief that unless you are going to teach all the religions in school (Judiasm, Islam, Pagan, Sikh, even atheism-though it isn't really a religion) then none should be taught in school. No single religion is any more or less important than any other and therefore shouldn't be put ahead of any other.

I also don't believe that not having Christianity in schools is the cause for the problems we are having as a society currently. I think the number reason for the current turmoil is the fact that many parents don't care as much about their children's education. They don't care about what their children are learning in school, what their kids are doing when they get home from school but before their parents come home, who their friends are. Most parents don't even know the parents of their children's friends. This is where I believe the abcess in our society lies.

Yes, you still have the option to teach religion in your own home, but that isn't the issue here...what were the schools like 50 years ago? And what are they like now? What is different? God was a common place back then, a standard in the majority of people's everyday lives ( in their homes and in school)...today, He is being dismissed...you can come up with any excuse you can find, that could be responsible for making this society have such a tragic downfall...but the bottom line is, the world is lacking one thing ( that is didn't lack 50 years ago), and as long as we continue to erase God from our everyday lives...this world is in danger.

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Originally posted by Maresche
I also don't believe that not having Christianity in schools is the cause for the problems we are having as a society currently. I think the number reason for the current turmoil is the fact that many parents don't care as much about their children's education. They don't care about what their children are learning in school, what their kids are doing when they get home from school but before their parents come home, who their friends are. Most parents don't even know the parents of their children's friends. This is where I believe the abcess in our society lies.

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Very true.

Also, so many aren't teaching a religion at home, and IMO it's the responsibility of the parents, not the school system. I don't think religion in schools would make a bit of difference, without religion at home. Home is where your values and beliefs are established and so many are unconcerned about ANY belief system. Whether paganism, christianity, muslim, or whatever it must begin at home.