for other Atheists out there

What do you mean, "you can do far more things TO a bird", Popcornbird? LOL:D
I notice you get pretty passionate about the things you believe in, which is understandable. So surely you can see that others may have the same feelings about their chosen pets, beliefs, etc.?

My oldest daughter is like you, not only a lover of birds, but a bird magnet!! She could get "wild" birds to come to her! It was interesting to watch her when she was little, like a little St. Francis, or Earth Mother if you prefer ;) . (She would!!)

I like birds a lot, but I love the feeling of my cat's furry purring when she stretches out next to me at night, as I read myself to sleep. I am sure there is a soft, purry bird out there somewhere that could do that, but he or she wouldn't be GRASSHOPPER. For that matter, no other cat could be her, either. And when she goes to the Rainbow Bridge, another cat will probably find me. Because of the wonderful times I have had with Grasshopper, that is the animal spirit I will most likely be looking for.

Just as you and birds are drawn to each other. There is no better or worse animal, just personal preference.

I have been trying my darndest to stay the heck away from this thread but I must comment.
Popcornbird, I know you love your birdies, just like I love my dog and cat. Your religion is pretty strict at what I gather over animals. But I simply can't bond with birds. I have never had one. But my grandma has had several and I just didn't enjoy them. She did. My aunt's (her sister's) are terrified by them, why I don't know. I am passionate about my critters, like you are your pets, and people are their kids, and that is wonderful.
AND keeping with the content of the thread. (sigh) I believe in God the Father Almighty, If I didn't then I see no point in believing in anything. Then when my loved ones die, they would be in Limbo and that isn't a nice place. I have to believe in a higher power so that I can know in my heart that I will see my loved ones again.

No more comments from me. I am unsubscribing to this thread and don't want to hear anything directed towards me. Thank you.

I never said birds weren't real pets.

Well I've read 7.5 pages of this thread so far and have to go to work now so I can't finish it before I reply.

I just wanted to say that it is ignorant to think that your beliefs are right and everyone else's are wrong. No one really truely knows whats right and wrong. You can grasp at things to try to prove this or that, but we don't 100% know. And thats okay. I enjoy reading other people's beliefs and I respect each and every one of them. Diversity is a good thing. Open-mindedness is a good thing. Accept what others believe and be happy and comfortable with what you believe. If you have to attack what other people believe in, there is something wrong.

This is not directed at anyone but a general statement in what I feel.

This certainly has turned into an interesting thread!!

I find when I start writing a response here, the words pour out onto the screen, then I re-read them, and realize they are not necessary.

I find the Zen Koans (the sound of one hand clapping, for example) express it best - less is more. The more we talk, the less we say. It eventually comes down to what we do, and I think there isn't a soul here that doesn't "do" one marvelous demonstration of the best in the human spirit:

Love our animals: feathered, furried, scaled, living beings that we are so fortunate to share this delightful little planet with.

Err.....This is rather off the religious part of the thread but I wanted to add to a side discussion.

I was never fond of birds growing up. My grandfather has a rather nasty Red-Lored amazon. Now I work at a pet store, and my view has changed entirely. I spent a good chunk of my day today cuddling with a Blue-Crowned Conure.

A lot of people have the same misunderstanding about reptiles as they do birds. My younger beardie comes up to greet me when I get home. She rides around on my clothes, eats from my hands, makes eye contact with me when I talk to her, and has people and things that she likes and dislikes. Even my snakes come out of hiding when I get home, and my Hognose will come to my hands if I put them down in the tank. Don't try to tell me that that is because they are warm, because she doesn't come to anyone else like that. (At least not to my boyfriend or any of his friends)


On witnessing: Most people; Christian, Catholic, JW, Mormon, will leave after a polite decline. I have only met one very stubborn man who would not leave my college campus one day. This man sat at our fountain for several hours, and ended up singaling out one of my gay friends and telling him that "the fags will burn" and such. The president of our Christian club even asked him to leave.


As to the main topic of this thread......I am pagan. I celebrate both Christmas and Yule. Christmas I celebrate mostly for the benefit of my family. At first when I found my faith, I tried to set aside Christian holidays and traditions altogether. I found myself increasingly alienated from my family. They are (mostly) not devoutly religious or anything, but for some reason the word 'pagan' sends them into a frenzy.

I enjoy the holiday cheeriness, even if the holiday itself is only a mimicry of the original (pagan) holiday, Yule. That is what many 'Christian' holidays today are though, so there is no escaping. I have even found a few things that I can enjoy with my family regarding the two holidays without hurt feelings. I am sure we will find many more, but we are just starting out now.

When the family says grace I either sit quietly or leave the room discreetly beforehand if possible.

My family is not very accepting. I might understand this if they had asked me about the faith and the practices, and found them apalling. It hurts that they simply shun me and dismiss something so important to me without othering to learn anything first. My father yelled and ranted last year at new year's because I left the room a few minutes before my aunt had everyone pray. I will not sit through something I am totally uncomfortable with if it can be politely avoided.

On that note; if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask, and I will try to give you as complete an answer as possible. Thanks for reading!

Interesting post, Wolfchan.

As for the pets thing, I think everyone is going to have their own favourites based on their experiences, etc. I have a great fear of snakes and spiders so they're not even an option for me. But it's interesting to hear that your snake responds to you the way that it does.

As for the religious points, I'm very sorry to hear that your family is so intolerant about your beliefs. Perhaps you could take a time yourself to explain things? I hope it changes with some time and understanding.

That's cool WolfChan :) I know a lot of Wiccans and Pagans (thanks to a site I work at), and I know that your situation (your family not accepting your beliefs) are sadly very common :(

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Originally posted by All Creatures Great And Small
Would you be willing to explain a little about Satanism, or were you just posing that question hypothetically?

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I mentioned Satanism as an example and I'm not a Satanist myself although I do know a few of them (again, from the site I work at). But sure, I don't mind telling a little. There is two types of Satanists out there: Teens who wants to be cool and worship Satan and the real Satanist, who don't even belive in Satan. The latter doesn't really belive in Satan or any other gods for that matter, the name Satanist is mainly meant as a slap in the face towards Christians since Satanist usually dislike Christianity and it's followers. True Satanists belive that the only god out there is yourself, only you can make your life's dreams come true and yadda yadda. They are also extremely respectful and good with animals/pets. They see animals just as worthy and important as humans, and that's one of the things about Satanists I like the most. And example of this was when a while back some famous Satanist died in a car crash, and in his online obituary the focus was just as much on him as it was on his dog that had also died in the crash.

Thanks for the info Ann. I didn't know any of that. I fell into the rumors that they are evil people who sacrifice animals :o :o :o

Thanks Ann,,,,I learned something. I guess the Satanists that Aly is referring to and what everyone associates with are the teens who are trying to make a statement without understanding the concept. The movies out today don't help the situation either.

um er most of the stuff you described applies to me i.e. the respect for animals etc....but I am an Atheist, NOT a Satanist! I don't understand how a true "Satanist" cannot be a Satan worshipper? The very word has SATAN in it. I do not believe there is a God OR Satan BUT I do believe if you worship "Satan" you are worshipping EVIL, as the christian "Satan" is "Evil". I believe all of us choose whether to be good or evil in this life, and if you choose to worship Evil that makes you a baaaaaaad person. It's like worshipping all the horrible things in the world like war, murder, tragedy etc etc.

Wolfchan : I am uncomfortable around "praying" as well, and do not participate in it. My mom knows who I am and accepts it, she may not LIKE it but like her, I am bloody stubborn and she can't change what I believe any more than I can change what she believes.

When ppl want to say Grace before dinner I just thank the earth in my head and stuff like that.

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Originally posted by Lalania
[BWhen ppl want to say Grace before dinner I just thank the earth in my head and stuff like that. [/B]

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That's actually what it's supposed to be about, Lalania, just as prayer is a centering device, too. Have you ever heard a preacher preach "Hellfire and Brimstone"? Or someone say "Grace" before eating with all kinds of angry, negative things? They are totally missing the point. "Grace" is meant to put you in a peaceful state of mind, as "you are what you eat" referes to more than just the food! Anger is bad for the digestion, and I truly believe that negativity when you are eating feeds the negativity in your body, mind and spirit. I know of a couple that only discusses the meal, recipes and food and nutrition related things when they dine. How cool, and how digestible!!! My opinion of course, but that's what all our posts are anyway, right? Opinions.

Grace is for thanking GOD for the food not the Earth. :) I always thank the Earth for good things like, birds singing in the morning, sunshine after rain...a nice sunset... ya know?

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The latter doesn't really belive in Satan or any other gods for that matter

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Hmmmm ... I'm sorry, but I don't quite buy that one.

To say a Satanist does not believe in Satan is like saying a Christian does not believe in Jesus Christ. That's rather silly.