Government run health care

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

So good to have the voice of a healthcare professional - who works in the industry.

I agree with you the expression "healthcare reform" is a bit of a misnomer. The issue is how it gets paid for (insurance) and who can afford it.

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If only that were true... Have you actually read any of either bill?

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

I dislike the salespeople (med supplies and drugs) more than politicians.

I worked in the area where the sales reps would come in and almost offer themselves up in order to get a sale.

Those people were scumbags, liars and the biggest thieves on the planet.

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Talk about shoot the messenger!! The sales reps are the scumbags, liars and thieves. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Okay...they could make a living some other way...but what about the folks who train them to do that? The ones who make the REALLY BIG bucks from the sales of those scumbags??? They aren't bigger thieves?

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

I dislike the salespeople (med supplies and drugs) more than politicians.

I worked in the area where the sales reps would come in and almost offer themselves up in order to get a sale.

Those people were scumbags, liars and the biggest thieves on the planet.

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Just don't even get me started on pharmaceutical sales people. (shiver) I was waiting in the doctor's office one morning when one of them came in. Talk about a schmooze-a-palooza! I felt like the rep was wasting my time more than my doctor's, since I was paying to see her, and he wasn't.

Then in my last job there was a weekly inservice for the docs and clinical staff with a catered lunch, sometimes a guest speaker, and usually a "commercial" for a particular product that had either been added to formulary recently or they wanted us to add. The nurses weren't too welcome at those because we didn't directly contribute to formulary decisions.

Big Pharma likes to have nurses as sales reps - somehow it seems to make the sales rep image less sleazy. I wouldn't do it if it was the last job on earth. I'd take bedpans over a sample case in a heartbeat. The receptionist for the doctor I used to see kept track of how many sales reps came in each day. She would allow a couple, and then put a sign on the door: No more sales rep calls today. The doctor I go to now is part of a teaching hospital so I don't believe they don't get sales rep calls at all.

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

Put more responsibility into the hands of the patient. Let everybody see what it REALLY costs. Then people start shopping around, like we did with Tanya's pregnancy. We found AMAZING care for less than half the cost of the "usual" hospital here in town. Competition breeds cost cutting and better service. Lets face it... Healthcare IS a business.

No, its not "easy" to get there. Yes, not everybody will do well in such a system. It will still be better than what we get if government runs it all. Ask my father in law... Ask my brother in law... YEARS waiting for stuff that I could get next week, at worst, here.

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They tried that at some of the hospitals in Chicago for awhile but it seems to have fallen out of favor for now. There was a big push to get people to ask about how much this service costs, and to call around and compare prices before (example) their colonoscopy, but I don't know how much it ever caught on.

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Originally Posted by cassiesmom

They tried that at some of the hospitals in Chicago for awhile but it seems to have fallen out of favor for now. There was a big push to get people to ask about how much this service costs, and to call around and compare prices before (example) their colonoscopy, but I don't know how much it ever caught on.

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It is not practical for a number of reasons.

All the different for profit insurance companies have negotiated deals with certain healthcare providers. If my carrier doesn't have a deal with the hospital with the lowest rate it won't make any difference.

Many providers have no idea what the rate will be until they submit the claim. Too complex - too many different rates.

When you are in an emergency situation - calling around for the lowest rate could kill you.

Anyone see the piece on The Daily Show last night about the number of Americans moving to Mexico for better quality and lower cost - government healthcare?

Although I am sure you could fine two guys in Mexico who are dissatified with it...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

It is not practical for a number of reasons.

All the different for profit insurance companies have negotiated deals with certain healthcare providers. If my carrier doesn't have a deal with the hospital with the lowest rate it won't make any difference.

Many providers have no idea what the rate will be until they submit the claim. Too complex - too many different rates.

When you are in an emergency situation - calling around for the lowest rate could kill you.

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These are among some of the reasons why I agree with you that the system needs to be "fixed" and/or changed.

What I don't agree with is what either house has come up with. Simply put, we cannot afford the monstrosity they have put together. Unless, of course, we are willing to have a lower standard of living. You can only tax the producing class so much.... History shows us this time and time again....

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Anyone see the piece on The Daily Show last night about the number of Americans moving to Mexico for better quality and lower cost - government healthcare?

Although I am sure you could fine two guys in Mexico who are dissatified with it...:rolleyes:

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First, The Daily Show? Really? I'd love to see the source material for THAT.

Next, its WAY more than 2 people. Some polls have it WELL over half of America does not like what is currently being debated.

Its statements like this why the left is losing traction on almost every issue. You continue to not listen to the people or reality. All you can do is try to shut us up or just ignore the facts.

Carry on....

Are we going to 'hijack this thread' and start insulting the Mexicans?:eek:

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CM,

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL SALESPEOPLE FOR PHARM COMPANIES.

Most of the female reps had the business acumen of a stripper.

Once the wallet, or any possibility of making a buck, disappeared? They dropped the 'sweetness and attention', along with the 'personal touch' they would give to the contract.

Because I worked in the office with the purchaser,I got to see the best of the sales pitches.

Being the sexist pig, with low morals, I really liked it when the gals would dress 'professionally' and flash cleavage and undies, all while sitting on the counter in those midis!

Sometimes I had to leave the office because the sweetness in the room would have put me into a diabetic coma.


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The reason that "shopping" for rates fell out of favor is that the med companies/pharms and institutions would have to justify the profit made on each admission/procedure.

http://stores.ebay.com/TheMedWarehouse?_rdc=1

LOLOLOLOL,

Ebay for replacement parts.


Look at the prices for one screw?

50 dollars for a effing open end wrench in 11 mms?

150 dollars for a t-handled wrench to drive a bone screw?

I could take what I know about medicine, buy all the stuff and parts at a Sears/Craftsman sale and open up a clinic in Mexico.

Oh, I am sorry Mexico people, I meant no harm.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL SALESPEOPLE FOR PHARM COMPANIES.

Most of the female reps had the business acumen of a stripper.

Once the wallet, or any possibility of making a buck, disappeared? They dropped the 'sweetness and attention', along with the 'personal touch' they would give to the contract.

Because I worked in the office with the purchaser,I got to see the best of the sales pitches.

Being the sexist pig, with low morals, I really liked it when the gals would dress 'professionally' and flash cleavage and undies, all while sitting on the counter in those midis!

Sometimes I had to leave the office because the sweetness in the room would have put me into a diabetic coma.

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Wow. Could you imagine if anyone else said something like this?

Most of the Asian reps had the business acumen of a stripper.

Most of the African American reps had the business acumen of a stripper.

Certainly not all pharma reps...just most of the female reps...

Apparently insulting 51% of the population is acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Anyone see the piece on The Daily Show last night about the number of Americans moving to Mexico for better quality and lower cost - government healthcare?

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I don't know if they still do, but UnitedHealthcare used to sell a product for U.S. citizens and residents who chose to obtain their care across the border.

PacifiCare and UnitedHealthcare Partner With SIMNSA to Enhance Cross-Border Health Care Services for Latinos and Their Families
Posted on: Wednesday, 27 September 2006, 09:00 CDT (source: redOrbit.com)

CYPRESS, Calif., Sept. 27 /PRNewswire/ -- PacifiCare, a UnitedHealthcare company, is partnering with Sistemas Medicos Nacionales, S.A. de C.V. (SIMNSA), to make available innovative health plans for Latinos who prefer to visit doctors in Tijuana and other border cities in Baja California, Mexico.

PacifiCare's partnership with SIMNSA enables PacifiCare to market SIMNSA products and services alongside PacifiCare and UnitedHealthcare programs that provide Southern California-based businesses affordable, comprehensive coverage for their employees. SIMNSA offers a host of health plans with low or no copayments as well as dental and prescription drug benefits.

Based in Chula Vista, Calif., SIMNSA is a California-licensed health plan that was developed to provide affordable, quality health care coverage for a growing segment of the U.S. work force that prefers to access health care services in Mexico. Health care services are rendered by a network of more than 200 doctors and specialists in Baja California. SIMNSA also contracts with clinics in the San Diego area for members who need access to urgent care.

SIMNSA members must access all routine care in Mexico, but are covered for qualified urgent and emergency care while working or living in the United States. SIMNSA plans are open to Mexican nationals who are legal residents of the United States, U.S. citizens of Mexican ancestry and dual nationals. In addition, SIMNSA can also accommodate employers that want to offer their employees a "split-family" coverage option. This option allows employees to choose PacifiCare for themselves and SIMNSA for their dependents.

Latinos of Mexican origin comprise nearly 60 percent -- or more than 20 million -- of the Hispanic population nationwide, and more than 32 percent of the total Latino population nationwide resides in California. More than 52 percent, or 40,510, of the Mexican foreign-born citizens who became naturalized in 2005 reside in California, according to the Migration Information Resource -- Spotlight on Naturalization Trends, Sept. 1, 2006. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics shows that, "among immigrants, Hispanic adults were the most likely to be without health insurance (37 percent)."

"According to San Diego's regional planning agency, nearly 35,000 people are commuting across the border into California each day to work," said Frank Carrillo, CEO of SIMNSA. "However, this doesn't include those who live in Southern California and support their families in Mexico. For these individuals, a California-based health plan may often not be an option. Through SIMNSA, however, our 20,000 members -- many of whom might otherwise be uninsured -- are able to attain employer-sponsored health care coverage for themselves and their families. By partnering with PacifiCare, we look forward to enhancing SIMNSA's brand and its health care programs throughout Southern California."

"We share SIMNSA's goal of improving access to quality, affordable health care coverage for Latinos, particularly those who are legally employed in Southern California and may live and have families in either Southern California or Mexico," said Russell Bennett, UnitedHealthcare's vice president of Latino Health Solutions. "Data published by the Yankelovich Hispanic Monitor indicate that the majority of Latinos prefer to receive health care information in Spanish. By offering health care programs that are linguistically and culturally appropriate, we believe PacifiCare and SIMNSA have a tremendous opportunity to leverage our mutual experience and expertise in better addressing Latinos' unique health care needs."

He'll get a bill for the cord he broke-1,799.99 dollars.....

http://www.asylum.com/2009/12/02/geo...with-carols%2F

A Minority View.

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Originally Posted by Walter E Williams

BY WALTER WILLIAMS

RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2009



The Pretense of Knowledge



The ultimate constraint that we all face is knowledge -- what we know and don't know. The knowledge problem is pervasive and by no means trivial as hinted at by just a few examples. You've purchased a house. Was it the best deal you could have gotten? Was there some other house you could have purchased that 10 years later would not have needed extensive repairs or was in a community with more likeable neighbors and a better environment for your children? What about the person you married? Was there another person who would have made for a more pleasing spouse? Though these are important questions, the most intelligent answer you can give to all of them is: "I don't know."

Since you don't know the answers, who do you think, here on Earth, is likely to know and whom would you like to make these decisions for you -- Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, George Bush, a czar appointed by Obama or a committee of Washington bureaucrats? I bet that if these people were to forcibly make housing or marital decisions for us, most would deem it tyranny.

You say, "Williams, Congress is not making such monumental decisions that affect my life." Try this. You are a 22-year-old healthy person. Instead of spending $3,000 or $4,000 a year for health insurance, you'd prefer investing that money in equipment to start a landscaping business. Which is the best use of that $3,000 or $4,000 a year -- purchasing health insurance or starting up a landscaping business -- and who should decide that question: Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, George Bush, a czar appointed by Obama or a committee of Washington bureaucrats? How can they possibly know what's the best use of your earnings, particularly in light of the fact that they have no idea of who you are?

Neither you nor the U.S. Congress has the complete knowledge to know exactly what's best for you. The difference is that when individuals make their own trade-offs, say between purchasing health insurance or investing in a business, they make wiser decisions because it is they who personally bear the costs and benefits of those decisions. You say, "Hold it, Williams, we've got you now! What if that person gets really sick and doesn't have health insurance. Society suffers the burden of taking care of him." To the extent that is a problem, it is not a problem of liberty; it's a problem of congressionally mandated socialism. Let's look at it.

It is not society that bears the burden; it is some flesh and blood American worker who finds his earnings taken by Congress to finance the health needs of another person. There is absolutely no moral case, much less constitutional case, for Congress forcibly using one American to serve the purposes of another American, a practice that differs only in degree from slavery, which we all should find morally offensive.

Whether it is health care, education, employment or most other areas of our lives, I ask you: Who has the capacity to master all the complexity to make choices on behalf of others? Each of us possesses only a tiny percentage of the knowledge that would be necessary to make totally informed decisions in our own lives, much less the lives of others. There is only one reason for the forcible transference of decision-making authority over important areas of our private lives to elite decision-makers in Congress and government bureaucracies. Doing so confers control, power, wealth and revenue to society's elite. What's in the best interests of individual members of society, such as a person who'd rather launch a landscaping business than purchase a health insurance policy, ranks low on the elite's list of priorities.

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Well,

See what a deadline/holiday makes people do?:mad::rolleyes::confused:

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Well,

See what a deadline/holiday makes people do?:mad::rolleyes::confused:

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Yep, 60 elected officials, some of whom where bribed, or coerced, into voting for what 2/3's of the population Does Not Want!

The 60 that voted for this bill should be jailed for trying to enact UnConstitutional legislation!

Attention all , the fat lady is getting ready to sing.:D:D

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Originally Posted by lizbud

Attention all , the fat lady is getting ready to sing.:D:D

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You can tip her then.

I really wish that everyone that agrees to this 'bill' picks up the tab for the rest of us that are just not interested in some FAs idea as to how the uninsured will be treated in the future.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

You can tip her then.

I really wish that everyone that agrees to this 'bill' picks up the tab for the rest of us that are just not interested in some FAs idea as to how the uninsured will be treated in the future.

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I hate to be the one to tell you, but no one cares what you think or wish.
Believe me, the sun will rise tomorrow no matter what you or I want..:D

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Originally Posted by lizbud

I hate to be the one to tell you, but no one cares what you think or wish.
Believe me, the sun will rise tomorrow no matter what you or I want..:D

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I have to think our wishes carry the same weight as a phart in the wind.

Trust me, If I thought anyone cared?

I'd vote for them,

Hmm, no one has complained about the fat lady being portrayed as such?