My sister found this pic on the internet and I wanted to show you guys!It`s supposed to be an angel!http://www.artbell.com/images/wtcangel.jpg
Printable View
My sister found this pic on the internet and I wanted to show you guys!It`s supposed to be an angel!http://www.artbell.com/images/wtcangel.jpg
I don't know if that picture depicts it, but I truly believe there were Angels there, that day. :)
I remember all the hoopla over the devil's face in smoke, and I think that turned out to be a hoax. Internet pictures often have dubious origins. It's too large to be a bird, I bet it's just been imposed on there. I guess it's the sentiment that counts, though.
Soledad, I too am positive it's a computer made picute. However, I remember reading somewhere that the "devil in the smoke" picture actually was real and non-modified, but I honestly don't belive that.
Anyways, let's for a moment say that there ARE angels in reality, shouldn't they just have prevented this whole thing from happening all together instead of just flying around in the area afterwards? I guess that's one of the many reasons why I don't have any "faith".
I am positive that angels were there that day and working overtime. I am not sure that I trust the picture, looks more like a bird to me. But what a beautiful idea. We don't have to see the angels to know they were there.
Here`s the one with the devil in the smoke! http://www.artbell.com/images/wtcsmokedevil.jpg I think it`s real! Do you guys?
Circumstances like this are solely because of mans free will. When God created man one of the most powerful traits that was given to us is free will. I don't know if the pictures were doctored or not but I do know that God is always with us and loves us ... but humans make their own dicisions.
Well said Sara. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
Circumstances like this are solely because of mans free will. When God created man one of the most powerful traits that was given to us is free will. I don't know if the pictures were doctored or not but I do know that God is always with us and loves us ... but humans make their own dicisions.
This picture is not real...anyone could have made it look like that.
Very well said!Quote:
Originally posted by NoahsMommy
Well said Sara. :)
If it is like you said and God writes down everything that will happen (he must get quite a sore hand ;)), then the picture of the Devil in the smoke can't be real. Cause by saying what you just did, you are saying that God WANTED 9/11 to happen, and that the Devil had nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally posted by popcornbird
Ann, there ARE angels in reality. Angels are not supposed to stop things from happening; God has written down everything that happens, not the angels. The angels are servants of God. If you recall the 9 miners stuck in the mines just a few weeks ago; how they were miraculously saved. Its God, and no one but God, who saved them. Such incidents greatly increase my faith.
Maybe you should try to accept that not everyone believes in the Christian faith. It's like the whole porn thread that was closed down and stopped from having an intellectual discussion, for you to sit there and say that your Christian God makes all the rules and makes everything happen, it's so very close-minded. I don't care if you people want to believe in an almighty God and I most certainly do not go around and say that your beliefs are silly (unless provoked, like now), and I just wish you people would show the same sort of respect towards non-believers.
Oh well, I'm sure this thread will be closed too, right? Isn't it funny that non-pet related topics are all fine and dandy as long as it contains the TYPICAL views of people. The God-loving, porn-hating, USA-loving stuff but as soon as someone will say something that goes against those typical believes, it is judges as non-fitting for Pet Talk and will be closed down. It's just not fair.
Things certainly have been heating up here lately on PetTalk. I quite like it, but I know it makes others uncomfortable. However, Ann, we may just be in the minority and have to accept that most people here just want this site to be light and not have to have intellectual debates. They usually end badly, anyway. However, I am always keen to have an exchange so feel free to PM me or email me if you get flustered or want to discuss something.
If it helps you out any, I too am a non-believer on PetTalk. I don't find that anyone singles me out because of it, but there is a presumption that everyone believes the same thing more or less.
Here's my take on the whole angel/God thing:
No one can prove conclusively that God/angels exist. There is no proof, but there is faith. Faith is the ability to believe in something which you have no concrete proof, but you take that leap and you trust in it. I grew up Catholic, and I always remember the priest saying "now we will celebrate the mystery of faith"....I think that sums it up well. I find faith to be quite a beautiful thing, but it is a personal thing.
My issue with people who are deeply religious is when they take faith for fact and insist that everyone believe. But I think religion can be quite useful for some, I just don't have much need for it and don't need to be told otherwise. Just like I don't tell others that they shouldn't have faith.
Ann, are you familiar with Dawkins or evolutionary psychology? I think you'd be very interested in it.
I`m so sorry if this topic is offending anyone!! Do you want me to delete it?
I generally don't like confrontation and try to stay out of a topic once people feel they are being offended but I just want to interject this one time and ,,, I am by no means trying to attack anyone or offend anyone... but I am a christian and I have to dissagree with the above quote. I and many others that I know have seen the works of God happen with our own eyes. Things like this are no coincidence (sp?). The Bible is one of the most awesome books in the world. It has 66 authors and not one contridiction in the whole book. Humans could not possibly have done that. My heart just aches for anyone who doesn't believe in God. We christians know he is real and do have facts we see him with our own eyes and hear him and feel him... non believers don't see these things simply because they are non believers. God is so awesome and so real... and when you said we are close minded is so untrue. We listen to the teachings of evolution in school and since there is evidence now that macroevolution could not have possibly happened.. I just wish more people would be open minded to God and try him out. He is so full of love and fills your life with so much joy.Quote:
No one can prove conclusively that God/angels exist. There is no proof, but there is faith.
I don't want to offend anyone.. I just have a tender heart for people's future.:)
If anyone ever has any questions .. I would be happy to talk about it.:)
I usally try to stay out of controversial subjects. Although I find them interesting, too often people do not respect other's points of views and it turns ugly. It is hard though, because I do find it interesting and the this is a great forum for the disccusions with some many people, from some many backgrounds able to share views. In order for that to happen though, it can not turn into a "who is right" & "who is wrong" situation. Regardless of whether someone is Christian, atheist, Muslim, Jewish, etc. They are not only entitled to their opinion, but should be respected for it and listened to. Everyone should be able to say what they like and everyone else should be open to what they say. They do not have to agree, but they should be aware there are views other then their own out there. Sometimes being open will make you question what you thought...and that is not bad. It is part of growing. Wether it brings you faith, or changes your faith, reaffirms what you belive or do not believe, it doesn't matter. Having the knowledge, thinking things through and making the decision for yourself does. Learning to accept everyone for what he or she belives is what is important.
Amen to respecting other's beliefs. An excellent way to spoil a board is to dis another's faith and to say everything about the country of most of our members sucks, while quoting "President Franklin". It's called common courtesy, but a few angry and unhappy people here just don't care. Please don't spoil it for the rest of us - OK?
Wow, it's still open. That's nice. Let me respond to you all in order here...
Soledad:
I'm glad that atleast someone can see it the way I do. I actually haven't heard about Dawkins, but I'd be very interested in learning. So if you have the time, please do tell me about it or give me the URL to some sites about it. Thanks :)
Rottieluver45:
I'm not offended, not at all. I enjoy having "deeper" discussions, so it's no worries.
Sara luvs her Tinky:
"The Bible is one of the most awesome books in the world. It has 66 authors and not one contridiction in the whole book." - Really? First off it does NOT have 66 different authors. It has 66 books, but not authors. For example it is belived that Moses wrote 4 books and so on. And for you to say there are no contradictions in that NOVEL just cracks me up laughing. The bible is nothing BUT contradictions. Take a look at this website. You might find it interesting. Let me just take one of the MANY examples at that site:
Are we punished for our parents' sins?
Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)
Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."
I Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, . . ."
vs.
Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."
Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
And the list goes on and on and on... Just take a look at that site, and if you'd like to see even more, lemme know and I can show you some more sites like the above one.
"non believers don't see these things simply because they are non believers. God is so awesome and so real... and when you said we are close minded is so untrue." - Thank you for proving my point. You are close minded because it has never crossed your mind that YOU are seeing those "things" because you ARE a beliver.
popcornbird:
I honestly didn't have the strength to go through the site you posted. I read parts and it just turned out to be the typical stuff I have heard thousands of times from people who wanted me to "see the light".
"God is NOT like us. It is very bad to say something like that." - Why is it very bad to say something like that? Hmmm? I thought he was supposed to be a LOVING god, not a vengeful one. LOL
"I don't know what you mean by 'then the picture of the Devil in the smoke can't be real.'" - I meant that if it was like you said that God writes down everything that happens, then he wrote down for 9/11 to happen and thus the devil would have nothing to do with it. Get what I mean now?
"Animals do not have free choice in belief, and all animals believe in God (including your pets)." - You have no clue whatsoever how much that quote disgusted me. No clue. I will not comments on that because I know I'd probably would get banned if I were to speak my mind.
"I am not impossing my beliefs on you, and neither was anyone else." - When you say things like "I just want to say one thing, may God guide all those who don't believe in Him before its too late." then you ARE cramming your beliefs down my throat. How can you not see that?!
----
Anyways, I don't have time to write more right now but I ask all you belivers out there to take this quiz. It's a quiz about the bible, and you might see some very interesting things about your "awsome book" there. Please do take it, it'll be amusing to hear your thougs on it.
There's also this site, which discussed some interesting things.
----
"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion." - Robert M. Pirsig
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" - Mahatma Gandhi
I think the reason many don't believe, is that it seems contradictory to put a finite "face" on an infinite (state of) being. I doubt that "non-believers" are as doomed as some might think just because they don't believe in a word.
As for faith, there isn't anyone posting on these boards that hasn't demonstrated their faith by their devotion to "beings" other than human.
Bucky Fuller said it well; "I seem to be a verb."
Deeds, not words, determine our worth.
Ann... I went to the quiz sight and from the beginning realized it was not a true quiz to determine what we know about the Bible but how much someone wants to demean the belief of those who follow the Bible as the inerrant word of God. I do mean inerrant too!!! The quiz was a slander and joke obviously written by someone who does not believe in God!
The other site you listed also is a joke because it doesn't believe in the possibility of creationism but is strictly a evolutionists point of view. I can refer you to many sites on the net that are pro-creation vs. evolution but that is just showing how I believe and not what is absolute truth. I do not believe in the big band theory and think evolution is an escape for people who can not believe in something they can not see to idealize HOW man came into being what he is today. This is not an open minded discussion because through these last two links you posted for us to look at, it is apparent you also are not open minded. You do not believe in a supreme omniscience creator so how can we expect that you would be open minded to the idea that there is, just as believers are positive their is a creator and that we have not evolved from apes!
As for the Bible being full of contridictions..... anyone can take something and get it out of context and make it sound like it is a contridiction. It's the age old game of having someone at the beginning of the line say something and by the end of the line it is not what was originally said. The references you stated were exactly that... verses taken out of context. Let me show you what I mean!
What you quoted....
Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)
the correct quotation...
Exodus 20:5 "You shall not bow down to them or whorship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me... Exodus 20:6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
your quotation....
Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."
The correct quotation...
Exodus 34:6-7 (6)"And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, "The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, (7)maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.
Meaning behind these verses....
The Israelites had just come from Egypt, a land of many idols and many gods. Because each god represented a different aspect of life, it was common to worship many gods in order to get the maximum number of blessings. When God told his people to worship and believe in him, that wasn't so hard for them... he was just one more god to add to the list. But when he said, "You shall have no other gods before me, " that was difficult for the people to accept. But if they didn't learn that the God who led them out of Egypt was the only true God, they could not be his people - no matter how faithfully they kept the other nine commandments. So God made this his first commandment and emphasized it more than the others.
Considering that in Exodus 34 we are talking about when Moses was commanded by the Lord to bring two stone tablets to Mount Sinai and the Lord was going to reveal himself to Moses there is information there that needs to be understood also. God knew the people were struggling.
So you want to know why the sins of the parents would effect even the grandchildren and great grandchildren? This was no arbitrary punishment. God is Holy.... so Holy that he told Moses that if he saw his face, he would die. Because no one could look into the Holy face of God and live. God knew there were going to be those who would not give up their idols and other gods. These dire consequences of sin were not limited to the individual family member but would influence the generations to come.
Let's consider.... How do children suffer the consequence of sin in their parents lives today? Many children are abused physically, sexually, emotionally in todays society. There are other sins that are not so noticeable such as selfishness and greed. These are all things that can be passed on to the next generation. How many adults are suffering now because they were beat when they were kids, they go to counseling because they were living in dysfunctional homes, they do drugs or have elicit sexually encounters looking for happiness or a way to escape pain. We all see it. These are all results of the sins of the parents. God is gracious though that he does forgive and is quick to forgive to the repentant people. I for one can see the result of faithful parents in my life. I thankfully do not have to deal with a lot of the garbage that some of my friends deal with.
vs.
Your quote...
Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."
Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
The correct quote...
Ezekiel 18:14 and 17-20 (14)"But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:... (17) He withholds his hand from sin and takes no usury or excessive interest he keeps my laws and follows my decrees. He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live. (18) But his father will die for his own sin, becasue he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people. (19) Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of the father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. (20) The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be chared against him."
God is giving the ability of the sins of the generations to stop. In Exodus he is showing that the sins of the father can carry onto generations to come as far as three and four generations. I know in my life the things that my Great Grandfather did that effected even my generation. I also know that the cycle stopped when my parents broke the cycle and repented. God is just and is willing and able to forgive us our sins if we acknowledge him and turn from our evil ways.
There are no contridictions in the Bible if it is taken in context. If it is taken out of context then you can come up with 100's or maybe even thousands of contridictions.
I must say that in the last few weeks I have noticed that most of your posts have hostility associated with them in some way or another and you claim that it is in the name of a healthy debate. I think there are debate sites out on the net somewhere but also don't think that Pet Talk is where you should be venting your negative comments. I was always told that if you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything at all.
I will pray that the Lord will touch your life in some way and that there will be a possibility of him revealing himself to you. He does reveal himself to me everyday... even if it is in the soft gentle blowing of the wind. Because I know for certaintly in my heart the "Just like air, God is there!!!" That may be the problem here. You are trying to comprehend the vastness of God in your mind and not in your heart. :(
Well I'm just an old Lady and not all that smart, I love my Country and I believe in God. You can bet your bottom dollar that all of you who don't believe in any God, will, on your death bed, be praying to some God and asking for forgiveness and hoping to go to Heaven.
Jackie
To the few that hate God and everything about America, why do you bother to hang out around us idiots?! That does not sound like someone so sure of themselves. Oh I get it, lets say God and America is crap and live life bitter, telling everyone how screwed up they are. Wanna be like that? Some enlightment - life sucks then u die!
p.s. This is SOOOOO persuasive to getting me to change what I believe by having a handful of rudes say I'm full of cat litter for my beliefs. What ever happened to agree to disagree? Why not tolerate a different view?
I just wanna say,before Wendy destroys this topic,That I do believe in God,nothing`s gonna change that,and I respect every one`s beliefs! No matter what!
I just don't like ppl trashing my God and country, that all. Can't animal lovers be people lovers, huh?
Well,I don`t think they are really trying to trash God and our Country! They are just saying what they believe! Just their opinions.
Why don't we all keep our religious views to ourselves? That way we don't have to fight here about that! Religion is one of those hot topics and will always cause a stir or whatever when brought up.
i'm saying at least one of em can't disagree without being very rude. let's be nice about it.
Casper & Kitty We all need to get some stuff about religion off our chests and we have a right to. And We can`t just keep it bottled up inside us!
oh well excuse me for daring to suggest something!Quote:
Originally posted by Rottieluver45
Casper & Kitty We all need to get some stuff about religion off our chests and we have a right to. And We can`t just keep it bottled up inside us!
I`m sorry I didn`t mean it in a rude way.I`m just saying that we really need to get some of this stuff out!Quote:
Originally posted by Casper & Kitty
oh well excuse me for daring to suggest something!
Yes ... Dixie your words explinations were great....
And Ann....
You were right... the Bible has 66 books and 44 authors.. my mistake.
You can't believe every thing you read off the internet. I don't know what search engine you used to find some web site with some so called contridictions of the Bible in it. Any one could read the Bible and nick pick things out of it here and there that sounds good to their ears and make it sound like they know what they are talking about on some web page.... so lets look at this again.. I was intrigued to study this out myself...
Exodus 20:5
5.For I the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6.but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me andkeep My commandments
ok now if you research this some the hebrew verb translated visiting can mean coming in an act of mercy or coming in divine judgement. So this is saying a fathers sins effect the third and fourth generation but God has mercy for them and they have and opportunity to turn from their fathers sins....
Exodus 34: 6-7
6. And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, The Lord the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, 7.keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sins, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and fourth generation.
once again the hebrew verb translated visiting can mean coming in an act of mercy or coming in divine judgement.
Exekiel 18:20
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father not the father bear the guilt of the son.
I think that is self explanatory.
Deutoronimy 24:16
Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sinn.
Once again that sounds self explanatory.
So where is the contradiction. All four verses agree with themselves.
Mainly I want to say I am not here to argue the word. I would love to say give me another so called contradicion and I will research it out for you but my job as a christian is to bring the word to a lost world not argue with them. And please dont believe just anything you find on the internet and get a bible and study it out for youself.
O.k. now their is no reason to attack me. You stated your opinion and I stated what I know.Quote:
Thank you for proving my point. You are close minded because it has never crossed your mind that YOU are seeing those "things" because you ARE a beliver.
For example if you see a dog run up to you and feel it lick your hand you know that dog is really there..... I see God and his works with my own eyes and feel his presence and his joy. Not because I am a close minded believer but because he is REAL... when you see things and feel things that generally is the FACTS THAT THEY ARE REALLY THERE.
What's it like where you all are?
You know, speaking of 9/11, wasn't there an atmosphere of unity throughout the world for a while? Now look at us here, doing a micro version of the macroscopic problems in the world these days. Except we are only using words, not arms. And what are we discussing? Religion.
Not our spiritual beliefs, which we all have no matter how we define them, but our "religion".
See why there are so many wars?
The issue of separation of Church and State is not meant to negate Church, but to prevent ONE Church from controlling all society. If that seems offensive, consider this: There would be no guarantee as to which Church it would be should it be allowed to happen. Think about that for a moment. Then look at Afghanistan - now there was a Church at work running a state for an example.
Once again, dear hearts, we are getting hung up in semantics. If your faith is strong, it will radiate in your deeds. All too often it gets muddied up in words. And all to often we condemn truly spiritual, loving people because they don't share our particular definitions.
So how's your day? What have your furkids been doing to entertain you this morning? Or evening;) ?
Dixieland Dancer:
"I went to the quiz sight and from the beginning realized it was not a true quiz to determine what we know about the Bible but how much someone wants to demean the belief of those who follow the Bible as the inerrant word of God. I do mean inerrant too!!! The quiz was a slander and joke obviously written by someone who does not believe in God!" - It was written to point out things about the bible that most christians do not know, or will refuse to accept (like yourself). How is it slander when everything in that quiz is TRUE? And it is most certainly not a joke either, it's written by a respected organization which does it best to make people see the truth about some of the major religions. And of course it was written by someone who doesn't belive in God, if it had been it would just have been some bias statement ignoring the truth and the full story. The only reason you think the quiz is slanderous is because you refuse to be open-minded in this situation, you refuse to see all the contradictions in the bible and keep going on with how your god is inerrant and so on.
"This is not an open minded discussion because through these last two links you posted for us to look at, it is apparent you also are not open minded." - Just because I do not belive in your god does not mean I am not open-minded. The only ones who are refusing to see the other side in this discussion is yourself, not me. When have I said in this discussion that there is no supreme god? I am just saying that I don't belive in it and give the reasons why I don't.
"I will pray that the Lord will touch your life in some way and that there will be a possibility of him revealing himself to you." - Please stop cramming your beliefs down my throat. Please. I don't want anyone to pray for me, I've had enough of that already. Imagine how you would feel if I were to say "I pray that the dark lord Satan will reveal himself to you and show you how stupid God is". I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it, so try to think about that before you tell me you are praying for me.
jackiesdaisy1935:
Why would I? I try to belive in a life after this one, but YOU can bet that I would not pray to some vengeful christian God that would throw me to some burning hell just because I didn't aknowledge him. Take a look at that loving god of yours for once.
WendyW:
What's up with you? You haven't even posted much here and you're telling me I shouldn't be here?
"To the few that hate God and everything about America, why do you bother to hang out around us idiots?! That does not sound like someone so sure of themselves. Oh I get it, lets say God and America is crap and live life bitter, telling everyone how screwed up they are." - I hang here because it was supposed to be a forum about pets, but I am just getting fed up with seeing the same stuff over and over and over. And when did I EVER say I was selfconfident? I am most certainly not. I don't lead a bitter life for no reason, I just hope to be able to open a few people's eyes and make some people a bit more open-minded. I see that that will never happen with you.
Rottieluver45:
Thank you for being open-minded and so nice about this all. If the God you belive in really does exist, he will have a spot for you in heaven. And yes, I am serious.
----
I don't have the time to respond to the other stuff posted, but I would be interested in seeing people respond to some of the other things I pointed out instead of just copying bible quotes over and over.
Maybe Niina is right... This is probably just a waste of time and will do nothing but make everyone think I'm an ******. Oh well... A few good men will do nothing when evil triumphs, right? LOL
Ann, you are not an bad person! I agree totally with what you have said. I'm also fed up with people who believe in god to try and make me 'see the light' too. Each and every religious person I've met, has tried to turn me to believe. I can't believe them, they are rude! Why can't they let me be alone with what I believe? Why don't we non-believers have the right not to believe without everyone jumping onto us and telling how wrong and lost we are because we don't believe. I for once would be much happier without all the religious crap we have in this world, and world would be a better place without these religious fights.
If you believe in god, fine, good for you, it's YOUR desicion, but PLEASE, leave us non believers alone! It's OUR desicion, and your moaning about it won't make us change our minds, quite the opposite.
Good God! What one picture can start! :rolleyes: I have only skimmed this thread and I can't say I'm religious - but I do have two friends who are christians, and I have not once experienced they've tried to convince me otherwise. I say, let people have their religions as long as no harm is done to anybody because of it!
I wonder if there's a religious forum somewhere on the net, that may be the right place to discuss this subject! ;)
Have a nice day, all! :) Peace!!
Well, I for one will not post in PetTalk anymore if I have to listen to these people with their nasty dispositions, all they are looking for are arguments, not discussions, I will post in Dog of the Day, Pet of the Day and Cat of the Day. I can't say I care to associate with people like this, I don't think religion has anything to do with it, I don't care for their language either, I thought we were above this kind of thing, I guess not.
Jackie
Everytime an agnostic/atheist states their beliefs, they are expected to sublimate their beliefs over another religion's because it's not valid enough. So, if we take a stand against pledging to God it's a huge deal. We always come out looking bad.
I get sick and tired of that "there are no atheists in foxholes" rhetoric. You wanna know what? I have had three close family members die, and not once did they revoke their lifelong held beliefs and start crying out for Jesus. They lived their lives in utter dignity and grace, and if there is an afterlife (which no one can prove or disprove) they will in good standing. It's like Casper & Kitty says: stop getting so stuck on Bible quotes and defending what you believe. The life you lead is example enough. I'm sick of this patronizing "one day you'll believe or you'll roast". I don't see any of the "non-believers" casting consequences on the "believers".
True... because they have no consequences to cast.Quote:
I don't see any of the "non-believers" casting consequences on the "believers".
Not true. If a christian is witnessing through the goodness of their heart and love of God with their testimony they will never try to make anyone look bad they will just spread the word like they are suposed to and LOVE THEIR ENEMIES! (and I am by no means trying to emply anyone is anyones enemy) BUT when a person comes out attacking another with snide remarks and ugly words THEN they make themselves look bad.Quote:
So, if we take a stand against pledging to God it's a huge deal. We always come out looking bad.
When christian tells someone about God it is solely because we care about people and know the love and joy God has to offer. NOT to cram anything down anyone's throat. A person has a free will to decide what they want to believe. But as a christian I have to defend the Bible and put the truth out. No one HAS TO ACCEPT what I say. They have a right to state their opinion as I do. We are all human and as humans we can get offended and take insult at what people say.... but we should not be attacking people with hatred and mean words.
(This is not ment to offend anyone)
I personally, dont know what I beleave in. IN a way I don't beleave in god, but I also do. I have seen him work in many situations, but at the same time I wonder to myself if it is just chance? I guess I am just another mixed up teen. My parents and there friends beleave strongly in god I mean they beleave in god to no extent and bring us kids up to beleave in him to. I have nothing at all about people who beleave in god. INfact I now go to a christian school and am sureounded by people who beleave in him and they are the best peopel you could ever meet. O they are just great kids and the teachers are so nice. But I ahve some trouble beleavening in everything that I hear about god, weitehr it be in church or in School. I will not question your faith as you can beleave in what you want to and I can beleave in what I want to. '
So I guess I am classifed as a none beleaver. But I would like to say WENDY that just because I am a none beleaver does NOT in anyway make me a bad person. Yes I make mistakes and I am not perfect, infact far from it. No I do not ask for forgiveness from god nor do I pray everday, but does that really make me that bad of a person? You hate me because I do not beleave in what you beleave in, thats not very far, is it? Also I think what you said about non beleavers and there country. I am an American, I am proud one at that, and I love my country. I woudl be more then happy to scream that out loud or wear a shirt that says it. I don't care what other people think, I love my country and thats that.
I also have great respect for those of you who beleave in god. You are able to walk through life feelign like someone is always there and that must be a great feeling.
Ash
PS: I once saw a man stand in a HUGE crowd and yell Jeuse Christ frogive these people's sin for we all have done wrong. It was a Beautiful experince to see a man so strongly beleave in somethig that he would stand infront of a crowd of people and pray for us and not care what we thought about him. I always will rember him and the homeless man who read the bible in the park to kids. They were two great men who have touched my life.
What about the consequence of a life wasted on lies. That seems quite formidable to me.
What if it was my sacred mission to spread the word that God didn't exist? What if I took every chance to make sure that everyone knew believing in God was like believing in the Tooth Fairy? Would that offend you? But, hey, I'm just doing it because I love you and don't want you to waste your life.
Get the message?
My words were not full of hate, and I'm sorry you read them that way. They were full of urgency, though. I was attempting to show you how your words affect people like Ann and me, by reversing the situation. Maybe now you know how it feels to be at the end of your words, or maybe you'll just continue to ignore how you make others feel. It's up to you and your free will. Like my mom said, don't dish it out if you can't dish it in.
Ok let me start out by saying I have faith and yet no religion. I believe there is a God and there is Satan but I don't believe in church! ( I have had many arguments with my best friend (who is close-minded when it comes to religion) because of the way I think where we have to stay away from each other for a while and yet I can have same arguments with my fiancée where we finally came to a conclusion just cuz we were willing to hear each other out.
Ok, that being said I would like to comment on some of what you guys have said. (Remember these are just my opinions and I don't mean to hurt anyone with my words)
Ann:
I have to agree with some of what you say (didn't go to any of your sites though sorry) and I can't agree more with your animals & God comment.
Dixie:
No one knows with complete authority on how anything and anyone arrived on this planet. I've taken a class (Origin of Life) and I am still confused as ever about the subject.
Wendy:
I don't think you want my comments on how you’re acting.
Rottieluver:
You have a great attitude! Don't ever lose it.
Kohala:
Bravo!
Sugar Girl: Point taken
About America issue:
I am a Proud American (along with my heritage which is why I have both an American and a Rebel flag in my room) but I can also admit when my country is in the wrong. No one can take away my patriotism just because my Grandfather, 2 Great-uncles and future brother-in-law serve(d) this country well. That's all I have to say about that.
Once again I want to say that the above was just my opinions so please don't hate me and I apologize in advance if I offend any one! Thank you for listening to my ramble!
Hugs for everyone and kissies for all the furbabies!
Andie