Collar and clicker smart

This is great i have been visiting petoftheday for awhile now and never even knew they had a discussion board. Well onto my problem, i have made a mistake i seem to have let my 5 month old chocolate lab get collar smart. He knows that when his prong collar is not on him i can correct him. I have also let him get clicker smart. I have been using clicker training with awsome results, he knows sit, down, stay, shake hand, high five, the whole routine. well, he wont do any of these things unless he sees i have the clicker in my hand, not a treat but the clicker. He knows sometimes when i click he only gets praise and sometimes when i click he gets praise and a treat. How od i get him to respond to my commands without the clicker.

Hide the clicker!
Put him on a lead and if you usually use a prong collar put that on him too. Have the clicker in your pocket, having put it there first thing in the morning or the night before. Go to where you usually do your training session and start with something simple like a sit. Have the dog on your left and your right hand in your right pocket holding the clicker, have a few treats in there as well that the dog hasn't seen. If the dog does not obey you must correct him. Give the command more forcefully and when he obeys drop the clicker, grab a treat and give it to him with loads of physical praise and silly voice, put your hand in your pocket and hold the clicker again. Then walk forwards asking the dog to heel. When he is walking properly give him a click without speaking or looking at him. Stop and ask him to sit again and reward as before. Never click for instructions like sit, down, stay until the dog is fully retrained. When he is obeying the sit without the click go on to the down, the stay etc. When commands are obeyed stop using it for normal walking and instead use a quiet, "Good lad." If you wish to continue using the clicker after his retraining use it rarely and only when the dog is unaware that you have it - it is after all just a substitute for verbal and physical praise.

I would like more information on clicker training. Where do you get a clicker and is there a difference in kinds? Could I do this training on my own? After using the clicker would it interfere with regular obedience class? Thanks in advance. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

Try www.clickandtreat.com/clicktrain.htm I just started clicker training with my dog in agility and it's fantastic, but can be very confusing and a bit complicated. Worst thing to do is to get into bad habits. These pups are smart!! My dog started anticipating by seeing the clicker too. I learned I had to hide the clicker when we would train. I leave it attached to my wrist with a band and hide the treats! Anyhow, don't get into bad habits with it. Wait to read all you can or get instructions. The bad habits are hard to break! Gary Wilkes is considered the clicker "guru" and is included in the web address above. If that address doesn't work, use your search engine and type in clicker training. Many terrific sites including Gary Wilkes. Good Luck! Let us know how you're doing.

Today I am going out to purchase a CLICKER to train my new puppy, Dharma, a 10-13 week old SPCA adopted golden Lab/Doberman female. She is VERY smart and has learned alot in the two weeks I have had her. I have been impressed by the training methods used by the Monks of New Skete but I find that their methods seem to pertain mostly to obedience in walking, sitting, staying etc. The clicker method sounds like a good idea for encouraging good behoviour in the home, such as appropriate things to chew on, potty training, etc. My question is, can I take the best from both those methods, or will that be too confusing for her?

Another question, my boyfriend has a approx 2 year old siberian husky, Odin, who just doesn't seem to get any training methods at all. We have used a halti on him, a choker, but he still pulls (HARD) on leash. (The halti works best) He can't walk off leash or he will run. He seems kind of distant, not very affectionate, and barely responds to his name. He was adopted from a shelter as an adult just a few months ago, and I can see my boyfriend getting frustrated with the lack of progress. I see Odin becoming fearful because he gets yelled at or yanked at (on the choker) but he continues the behaviour. (And so has my boyfriend, up until recently when I pointed out that all the yelling and jerking wasn't doing anything!) My boyfriend trained my 4.5 year old collie, who was another adult adoption from the SPCA, and did a great job with her - I am surprised he cannot get results with his dog! I am wondering if Odin is maybe not as smart or it's within his breed to behave like this. And will clicker training work with him? He is very motivated by treats and loves to play.

Any suggestions would be appreciated as I want to do a great job with my puppy and I want my boyfriend's dog to be a happier, more well behaved dog!

Hi Lane! Welcome! Boy, you have a lot of stuff on your plate! First, regarding your new puppy (congratulations!) I think you should probably start out with puppy kindergarten before venturing into the complicated world of clicker training. With clicker training, it is as important for the handler to be "trained" as is the dog! Check out the site above for more info. Basic obedience of different sorts and clicker training can be encorporated, but again, I think a better idea would be to start out with the real basics in a setting that includes other dogs, people, distractions, etc. Your trainer, if she/he is a good one, should be able to discuss types of training with you and make appropriate recommendations and work with you. I am not a professional. There are others here in the forum who are very knowledgeable in these areas and hopefully they will jump in. Whatever it is your are currently doing, it sounds like you are off to a good start. I am much more concerned about your boyfriends' adopted husky Odin. First, why, why why is ANYONE YELLING at this dog!!!! That type of negative correction, in my mind, is NEVER acceptable and rarely if ever gets results. If you do get "results," as you said yourself, the dog is ONLY responding out of fear. Considering this poor creatures' history, he probably lived through a lot of that in the past! No wonder he's not showing affection!
First, and most importantly, Odin needs to develop trust through POSITIVE re-enforcement, NOT negative discipline! Have you guys enrolled him in basic obedience? Do you know his "social history?" Maybe you can check back with the shelter and find out what some of Odin's past issues were. The last thing you need to do is develop fear aggression in this dog. As you said yourself, he is already beginning to act out with fear. You have done a wonderful thing in giving him a second chance. Please give him the BEST second chance you can. The fact that Odin loves to play and love treats provides two great opportunities and motivational tools for you to train him and enjoy him; help him learn to love and trust. Please contact a GOOD trainer in your area. Discuss Odin's issues, and enroll him in a class. DO NOT PUNISH, HIT OR YELL at him. Neither you nor I would like it, and neither does the dog! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif I certainly don't mean to offend you, but your boyfriend is NOT a professional trainer. Perhaps the Collie you speak of did not have the problems, or issues, or past history that Odin does. Every dog is different. I have a husky/shep rescue who was extrememly fear aggressive after 2 years of extreme physical and emotional abuse. She is not stupid; it is not the breed. Different dogs have different issues to deal with and may require a different approach. My Cody is now a happy, confident, loving girl. The first month I had her she would not make eye contact, would only lay in a corner, and would not let anyone touch her. With patience, love kindness and some appropriate training and socialization, she overcame all of this. PLEASE GIVE ODIN EVERY CHANCE TO BE THE GOOD DOG HE PROBABLY WANTS TO BE!!!! I'm sure others will also have great (better!) advice; please listen to it. I know you must be a very wonderful person; your boyfriend too. You have both made room in your lives for animals in need of care and a loving home. I am sure with time, patience, love and training, you will all be able to enjoy each other. Let us know how you're doing. I just love huskys! Kisses to your adorable (I'm sure!!) puppy Dharma and to Odin. I CAN'T bear the thought of Odin being returned to the shelter. Please, please, please try to get some professional training scheduled. Best of Luck and again, welcome to the forum. There are sooo many wonderful, caring and knowledgable people here. Please listen to what they have to say. We all want to help and support each other! We're all here for you.

[This message has been edited by tatsxxx11 (edited December 12, 2000).]

Thanks for the comments about our dogs. I really appreciate the suggestions. But I was a bit alarmed when I read your response and just wanted to set the record straight. Odin is certainly not mistreated here. When I say that Odin gets yanked and yelled at I guess it sounds worse than it really is. He has one of those humane choke chains that are mostly fabric and a small section of chain, and when he pulls he gets a pop on the leash. And the yelling is not yelling, just a VERY FIRM NO! Odin gets lots of love and attention and good food and play, he is never screamed at or hit or anything. I think we are both just frustrated because what would work with another dog doesn't seem to work with him. And although my boyfriend isn't a professional trainer he has had dogs all his life and trained every one of them with good results. My collie was 2 when I adopted her and was a great dog but had a few obedience problems, and he had her in great shape in no time. She adores him and listens to him and shows her respect. Odin just seems to NOT GET IT. And my boyfriend was trying so hard and didn't even realize that he needed to change his tactics until I said "you know, I don't think it's working" As soon as I said that he knew I was right and immediately we began thinking about other training options, which we have begun. Just giving him more individual attention, using the toys and treats as positive reinforcers, etc. We don't know and cannot find out his history from the shelter, they won't give out any info about the dogs, it's a shame.

So enough said, suggestions are welcome but be completely assured that our pets are treated with lots of love.

And sorry to post this and my original comment as a reply to someone else's question, I wasn't thinking, I just saw the thing about the clicker and started typing. I will start my own topic next time!

Lane, what does your new puppy look like. that sounds like a great mix. I just love Dobermans, they are great dogs.

Dear Lane. Thanks for setting me straight!! As I said, I NEVER meant to offend you. If I did, PLEASE accept my apologies. I never meant to imply that Odin was being abused; just that maybe a different approach might be more helpful. Sometimes what's written on the computer can get misinterpreted!! I feel especially sensitive to husky rescues, as I described. As I said, I know you both most be wonderful people, having given a loving home to so many rescues. I hope Odin continues to do well. Big husky hugs to him. Like so many things in life, some require more work and patience! How is Dharma doing? She sounds like a real little angel. Maybe Odin will learn from her, as she grows up. Again, I am VERY sorry if I offended you. Hope to see some pics of the new kids!

Good luck with Odin. Sometimes shelter dogs go through so much that we don't know about. My GSD was 2 1/2 yrs. old and only 69lbs. when we got him from the shelter. He's 110 now. Please work with Odin and don't give up on him.

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***Save a life, ADOPT***

Lane - why do you want to clicker train? (In my humble opinion it does have a place but is much over used these days.) To start with you have to teach the dog what the clicker means by getting an association built up with reward. In my experience it is much more rewarding for both you and the puppy to have physical contact as praise to begin with. When you are happy and working well together that is the time to learn about other training options. Concentrate on socialising your pup and basic training at first. A calm and gentle stroke and,"Good girl" will reinforce good behaviour in the house. I know there will be many who disagree about clicker training but I believe that if you have the ability to train a dog with one then you don't need one. As I said they do have a place and it can be enjoyable later to train the dog to one.

As for Odin, poor dog, poor boyfriend and poor you!! Husky's tend to develop very strong bonds and can take quite a while to come round to the idea of new owners. As you have found, this can be soul destroying when all you want to do is love the dog and have a good relationship with him. Odin sounds like he is depressed to me. He hasn't coped well with the changes in his life recently. I always found GSD's made the very best guide dogs but often found the changes during puppy walking, kennels, two changes of trainer and then on to the final owner very hard to cope with. They also tend to form strong bonds and it can be hard on the trainer, I know!
The absolute key to dog training is to treat dogs as individuals - what works with one, two or thirty doesn't always work with the next one. That's what makes it so interesting - just when you think you have the magic formula, you have to rethink your everything.
Odin also sounds like he is lacking respect for your boyfriend and I am almost certain that this due to the lack of bonding.
Maybe you could both try stopping the special efforts to be friends with the dog. Give him some space and let him readjust. When he is in the house with you get him to lay on his bed (the dog, not your boyfriend!..well, um..that's up to you really!!) and lie quietly. Do not fuss him or talk to him except when you happen to pass him. Then give him a pat and calm verbal praise, this must be very brief and only occasional. You are allowing the dog to relax, feel comfortable and safe but giving him boundaries at the same time. He must stay on his bed. If he moves off it simply put him back with the minimum of hassle.
Try to find somewhere secure that the dog can be off the lead, the back garden will do, and two or three times a day go and sit with him while he just does his own thing. When he wanders close to you offer a treat and a fuss and then say,"Off you go" or whatever phrase you choose.
Never ask the dog to do something you are not 100% sure he will obey until he starts to bond.
In short, I think bonding with the dog is vital before you start to really train. Every time he disobeys his respect level is falling and so is your heart. As soon as you start to see real signs of him seeking your company or looking to you as part of his pack then basic gentle training can start.
As you don't know the background and the dog is aloof I think this is the way to go. If you can find a one on one trainer who is going to be on your wavelength so much the better.
I am not suggesting you let the dog run wild by the way. You must keep basic rules of house that have already been put in place such as house training, furniture rules etc. Just give the dog some time to settle and feel secure before expecting him to trust and respond. Take heart - when things start to turn in your favour the rewards will be immense and you will have the best friend you have ever had.
Odin has decided he doesn't know what has happened to him in the recent past or what will happen next to him and the best and safest thing he can do for himself is to stay on his own, do his own thing until a situation he feels secure in comes along.

I hope this helps - if I can help at all please feel free to contact me in person. Lots of luck and keep us posted.

Wow, Thanks for all the responses!

I read them to my boyfriend and alot of the ideas make good sense. I know shelter dogs must have such a rough time, in ways it's even rough for the owners. Sometimes I wonder: do they miss their old homes, owners, etc. My collie took to me the very first time I met her and she is intensely loyal but I know that part of that is her fear that I will leave her like her other owner did. Odin was in the shelter THREE MONTHS before he was adopted by my boyfriend, and I agree with the person who said since he doesn't know what to expect he is just safer to keep to himself. I like the ideas about just letting him come to us in the yard and so on.

On a really good note the puppy is adapting really well to her new home and BOTH dogs are adapting to her. At first Odin was kind off put out by Dharma's presence but he has been playing with her lately. That's another thing about Odin, when he meets a dog he goes straight to play, no circle and sniff, and because of that he intimidates alot of dogs and owners, as it seems like agression. So he is learning as being part of a pack.

Dharma is GROWING LIKE CRAZY and learning so fast. For the person who wanted to know what she looks like, she has a short sleek tan/lightbrown coat, long soft floppy ears and chocolate brown eyes. She has these incredibly long legs and giant dobey paws and a very sleek body shape and a long tapered (always wagging) tail! She is about 17 lbs and the vet says she is going to be a very BIG girl - so I have started her on a strict diet of coffee and cigarettes to stunt her growth a bit (JUST KIDDING!!!!) She is having fewer accidents in the house as I am becoming very aware of her pre-elimination behaviour and I whisk her outside where she does her thing. She knows how to sit and sometimes down. Knew her name after the first day I began using it. I am so happy with her! When people ask her breed I call her a "Dobrador" and they say "Really, what's that?" and I tell them she's a lab dobey X they get a kick out of it.

As far as the clicker goes I used it with Odin tonight on the walk and he was VERY responsive to it. He was well behaved and eager to please us with the treats and clicker as a positive reinforcer. I think Dharma may not need it, although she does respond to treats (what dog doesn't?) but I think it may be great for him. One thing that I really like about it - it's loud and it's a neutral sound unlike a voice which always expresses emotion. Who knows how much Odin has been hollered at in his past? Maybe the firm NO is too much. He was definately intrigued with the clicker. So we will see.

Once again thanks for all the great posts and advice! Will keep you posted!

PS: what is a GSD?????????

GSD - German Shepherd Dog (Alsation)

Dear Lane
Great to hear all the wonderful and positive news! I knew Carrie would offer you some great advice. Dharma sounds sooo adorable! What a good little puppy! And Odin's progress is so encouraging. You guys are terrific; all the effort and love you have given these beautiful rescue dogs is just fantastic! As for your question: "What is a GSD?" That was the SAME question I asked the first day I posted on the board!!! Duh!
Hugs to all the kids!

I am going to post my own topic for Odin and Dharma, so please look there if you are interested in hearing about and helping me with my dogs. Thanks!