Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

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12-07-2004, 10:11 AM
lizbud

Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

I believe the Anti Defamation League is wrong to push this
in the courts. For pete's sake, isn't Christmas a legitimate
Christian holiday ? A celebration of Christ's birth? Non-Christians
don't need to be forced to join in if they don't want to.

Schools Try To Take Religion Out Of Holiday Concert

POSTED: 11:11 am EST December 6, 2004
UPDATED: 11:21 am EST December 6, 2004

MESA, Ariz. -- Many Arizona public elementary schools' winter concerts don't have children singing about angels, Bethlehem or the little Lord Jesus this year.

Instead, it's "Frosty the Snowman," "Sleigh Bells" and "Jolly Ol' St. Nicholas."

Teachers say the refocusing of music sung at schools is part of a growing effort to be sensitive to an increasingly diverse student population.

Some programs that include Christian music such as "Silent Night" or "Away in a Manger" this holiday season also will typically include songs from other religions in an effort to keep every concert balanced.

The legal counsel with the Center for Arizona Policy in Scottsdale says suppressing references to Christ during the Christmas season violates students' constitutional rights of free expression.

But the state director of the Anti-Defamation League in Phoenix applauded the efforts to reach out to students of all backgrounds.

He said that with the diversity that is now comprising the classes, what you have is not only many different races but also many different religions.
12-07-2004, 12:10 PM
NoahsMommy

The only way people are going to become tolerant of the "increasing diverse populations" are to understand other people's cultures and beliefs.

This stuff is getting out of hand. Just because someone is religious, they are offensive? Somehow, I think this type of tolerance would help if it was taught at a young age.

Although, I'm glad to see they'll sing all cultural/religious songs, if they play one.
12-07-2004, 12:44 PM
RICHARD

I think that there should be no Christmas.

No holidays, no singing, no trees, no nothing.

Cancel the whole deal and let everyone work and go to school.

:rolleyes:

----------------------------------

The thing that makes me laugh about the ACLU and all the lawyers is that they are fighting against the thought if Christmas, yet. they take the holiday off, go to Xmas parties and accept Christmas gifts....

Call up you local ACLU office on Xmas day to talk to a lawyer and see who you get.....
12-07-2004, 01:01 PM
momoffuzzyfaces

Re: Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

Quote:

Originally posted by lizbud
I believe the Anti Defamation League is wrong to push this
in the courts. For pete's sake, isn't Christmas a legitimate
Christian holiday ? A celebration of Christ's birth? Non-Christians
don't need to be forced to join in if they don't want to.

Schools Try To Take Religion Out Of Holiday Concert

POSTED: 11:11 am EST December 6, 2004
UPDATED: 11:21 am EST December 6, 2004

MESA, Ariz. -- Many Arizona public elementary schools' winter concerts don't have children singing about angels, Bethlehem or the little Lord Jesus this year.

Instead, it's "Frosty the Snowman," "Sleigh Bells" and "Jolly Ol' St. Nicholas."

Teachers say the refocusing of music sung at schools is part of a growing effort to be sensitive to an increasingly diverse student population.

Some programs that include Christian music such as "Silent Night" or "Away in a Manger" this holiday season also will typically include songs from other religions in an effort to keep every concert balanced.

The legal counsel with the Center for Arizona Policy in Scottsdale says suppressing references to Christ during the Christmas season violates students' constitutional rights of free expression.

But the state director of the Anti-Defamation League in Phoenix applauded the efforts to reach out to students of all backgrounds.

Well, they better boot St. Nicholas too. He was a Saint! Which is a Catholic symbol.

This has gotten so out of hand that the only fair thing to do is ban ALL holiday celebrations from public schools and public displays. That includes HALLOWEEN!

Maybe we should all live in a bland blah world with nothing to celebrate. That may make the ones who don't believe in anything happy, but the rest of us would be miserable. Oh, wait, I find not believing in anything offensive, so they should ban not believeing on anything too! (THAT'S JUST A SARCASTIC REMARK. I PERSONALLY FEEL EVERYONE SHOULD BE FREE TO BELIEVE OR NOT AS THEY WISH! JUST AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TRY TO FORCE ME TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT ME TOO. )

AND for the ones trying to make the Christians (or other religions) take symbols of their religions off THEIR OWN PLACES OF WORSHIP: CHILL OUT! If you don't like what is on a building DON'T LOOK AT IT!

Same with me wearing my cross necklace: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THERE ARE AT LEAST 5 OTHER DIRECTIONS TO LOOK IN BESIDES THE ONE I'M IN. FEEL FREE TO LOOK IN THEM ANYTIME YOU WANT!
(some countries are making it illegel to wear jewlery or clothing that depict anyone's religion. I just want to let them I won't be coming to their countries!):p
12-08-2004, 09:18 AM
Maya & Inka's mommy

Re: Re: Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

Quote:

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces
Well, they better boot St. Nicholas too. He was a Saint! Which is a Catholic symbol.

This has gotten so out of hand that the only fair thing to do is ban ALL holiday celebrations from public schools and public displays. That includes HALLOWEEN!

Maybe we should all live in a bland blah world with nothing to celebrate. That may make the ones who don't believe in anything happy, but the rest of us would be miserable. Oh, wait, I find not believing in anything offensive, so they should ban not believeing on anything too! (THAT'S JUST A SARCASTIC REMARK. I PERSONALLY FEEL EVERYONE SHOULD BE FREE TO BELIEVE OR NOT AS THEY WISH! JUST AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TRY TO FORCE ME TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT ME TOO. )

AND for the ones trying to make the Christians (or other religions) take symbols of their religions off THEIR OWN PLACES OF WORSHIP: CHILL OUT! If you don't like what is on a building DON'T LOOK AT IT!

Same with me wearing my cross necklace: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THERE ARE AT LEAST 5 OTHER DIRECTIONS TO LOOK IN BESIDES THE ONE I'M IN. FEEL FREE TO LOOK IN THEM ANYTIME YOU WANT!
(some countries are making it illegel to wear jewlery or clothing that depict anyone's religion. I just want to let them I won't be coming to their countries!):p

AMEN TO THAT!!!!
What the heck is wrong with people? ?? I don't get it , NO NO!!
12-08-2004, 08:32 PM
KYS

Re: Re: Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

RICHARD:I think that there should be no Christmas.
No holidays, no singing, no trees, no nothing.
Cancel the whole deal and let everyone work and go to school.>>>>>>>>>>>>

But Richared, I love hearing the holiday
music played during the day at work and at stores.
It puts a smile on my face. Dec. is one of my favorite
months of the year because of all the cheer. :D

I have mixed feelings.

I feel parents/Schools need to teach
tolerance/understanding for ALL religions.
12-08-2004, 08:50 PM
Karen

When I was a child, my mother, who was doing long-term substitute-music-teacher work in a city elementary school, designed and had the kids perform the school's first-ever combined Christmas/Hannukah program. Ma wasn't trying to be "revolutionary," she just knew she had Jewish children in her classes, and it just "made sense" to include music from their traditions in the "Christmas Concert." It is terribly sad to think that that might not be allowed any more.

I think taking Christmas out of schools is silly, when many of the children in every public school classroom celebrate the holiday at home. There should perhaps be discussion in September of the Jewish high holy days, more important in their tradition than Hannukah. Kids should learn about Ramadan. We can learn about diferent cultures without losing our own.

When we decide that every single holiday is "discriminatory" and therefore celebrate none, it will be a sad day in the American culture. Children - and adults, for that matter - should learn about other cultures and religions' traditions. How can we understand that of which we know nothing?

Without understanding, how can there ever be peace?
12-09-2004, 01:25 AM
RICHARD

Re: Re: Re: Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

Quote:

Originally posted by KYS
RICHARD:I think that there should be no Christmas.
No holidays, no singing, no trees, no nothing.
Cancel the whole deal and let everyone work and go to school.>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was being facetious.....

It was a comment on peoplebeing PC
12-09-2004, 07:05 PM
lizbud

Quote from the article,

"Some programs that include Christian music such as "Silent Night" or "Away in a Manger" this holiday season also will typically include songs from other religions in an effort to keep every concert balanced. "

This I do agree with. It's just that every year people seem to
get all in a snit about how to express celebration of Christmas.
I agree, all faiths who celebrate Christ"s birth should be heard
from. The music should be a balance of songs.
12-09-2004, 07:44 PM
KYS

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

posted by RICHARD:I was being facetious.....>>>>

I new that!!! :D
12-10-2004, 01:36 AM
CathyBogart

Re: Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

Quote:

Originally posted by lizbud
I believe the Anti Defamation League is wrong to push this
in the courts. For pete's sake, isn't Christmas a legitimate
Christian holiday ? A celebration of Christ's birth? Non-Christians
don't need to be forced to join in if they don't want to.

No. Xmas is a stolen version of the pagan Yule celebration that christians used to convince pagans to convert.

I have no objection to schools offering Xmas celebrations, but why not teach the true origins of the holiday as well as what it has become.

Here it is from a christianity today article:

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/dec6/9te085.html

Another excellent article:

http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/christmas2.shtml

Interesting piece, I like how it's written, but some of the contect is strange to me:

http://www.jwinfoline.com/Documents/...tmas_pagan.htm

On another note, who will be celebrating Yuletide with me this year? :)
12-13-2004, 01:22 PM
ramanth

Re: Re: Why Not Just Do Away With Christmas

Quote:

Originally posted by WolfChan
On another note, who will be celebrating Yuletide with me this year? :)

Me! :)
12-16-2004, 05:02 PM
RICHARD

ACLU subjected
to Christmas carols
Group sings in front of office to protest anti-God legal action

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 8, 2004
5:00 p.m. Eastern

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A group of demonstrators sang Christmas carols in front of the Washington, D.C., office of the American Civil Liberties Union today to protest the organization for its attempts to take religious references out of the public square.

Over 25 volunteers with Public Advocate of the United States sang at the office to highlight "the ACLU’s continuing disregard for the rights of their many pro-family targets," the group said in a statement.

The volunteers say they wanted to especially draw attention to the ACLU's lawsuit against the Pentagon.

As WorldNetDaily reported, the Pentagon is warning its bases not to sponsor Boy Scout troops after agreeing to settle an issue in a five-year-old lawsuit brought by the ACLU, which charged the government with improperly supporting a group requiring members to believe in God.

The ACLU complained the Boy Scouts of America "requires troop and pack leaders, in this case government employees, to compel youth to swear an oath of duty to God."

"Public Advocate hopes that the spirit of the Christmas season will fill the members and employees of the ACLU and that they will embrace the morals and principles of groups like the Boy Scouts and renounce their efforts to destroy traditional values in America," said Public Advocate President Eugene Delgaudio at the event.

Delgaurdio says some staff from the legal organization joined the singers outside the office.

"It is exciting to see all these people singing Christmas carols, including the ACLU staff members that have joined us today," he said. "Regardless of our differences, we are all proud to be Americans this Christmas, and may God bless those that are currently in harms way to bravely protect our freedoms. We must remember that the Boy Scout troops in danger of being kicked-off these military bases are made up of the sons of those brave soldiers, sailors and marines."

Much of the ACLU's litigation targets schools and other pubic institutions that make use of Christmas music or displays the group believes are a violation of the First Amendment Establishment Clause.