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I've been feeding both our dogs Science Diet for years. Recently, I was told it's bad food... But, I was told that on a guinea pig forum, so I wasn't going to trust it %100.
I was told that Innova was good food on that same forum. I tried telling my family that the food was bad, but they don't believe me. I don't really blame them, we were told by our vet it was good food, and I got the info on a guinea pig forum. :rolleyes:
I really want to know the truth, and I'm not sure who to trust.
Veterinarians receive very brief, cursory schooling on dog food/dog nutrition. Much of what they learn is pushed by Hill's themselves and some vets receive kickbacks for selling Hill's/Science Diet. So, you can see, it's a little more than biased.
Before I go on my little spiel, you have to keep this in mind: ALWAYS use whatever works best for you and your dog. My neighbor's cat lived to 19 on grocery store kibble. So, the best food is the food that works for you.
NOW, for my little spiel...Here are the ingredients for SD Active Adult Dry:
The "Bad": 1) the first ingredient should always be a protein. But in SD, it's ground corn. Corn is also often an alleged allergen 2) "by-product meal" is often frowned upon. By-products refers to the non-muscle-meat parts of the animal, which includes necks, feet, etc. Whether you want to feed that is up to you 3) the ambiguous "animal fat" - what KIND of animal? horse? raccoon? huh? 4) soybean oil - dogs generally don't fare well on soybean products and it can lead to frequent flatulence 5) Dried beet pulp - the general consensus is that dried beet pulp can be beneficial for firming up poops, but there is speculation that dried beet pulp can swell in the stomach and exacerbate bloat.Quote:
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, ..vitamins and minerals...
Now, here's Innova Dry Adult:
The "Bad": Well.. there isn't too much "bad" in terms of ingredients. The first 3 ingredients are proteins (and quality proteins at that). There is a fair amount of grains and carbohydrates, but all dry dog food contains decent levels of carbs (yes, even the no-grain foods). Instead of SD's "dried beet pulp", Innova uses Pumpkin. Instead of SD's "animal fat", Innova uses Chicken Fat. Instead of SD's "soybean oil", Innova uses Sunflower Oil.Quote:
Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Barley, Brown Rice, Potatoes, Rice, Chicken Fat, Flaxseed, Herring, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Pumpkin, Egg, Sunflower Oil, ..vitamins and minerals..
Sooo...the difference in ingredients is pretty significant. But you must always use what works for your dog. If your dog does well on SD but horribly on Innova, use SD.
Not ALL vets recieve kickbacks from any of the food companies. We carry several name brands including Purina, and Royal Canin in addition to the Hills. Our hospital only sells prescription diets, not regular foods. Head vet says he's running a vet hospital not a pet food store. To my knowledge, and the lady that does the ordering, the hospital recieves no incentives or kickbacks from any of the sales of the prescription foods.
I do agree with the statement; feed whatever works best for your pet. No one food does great for every single animal. I've seen dogs get horrible diarrhea and vomiting from Canidia (sp?) and do great on plan old Purina dog/cat chow.
If the dog is doing fine on Hills then leave well enough alone. If there's a problem, only then consider switching. Hills is not a bad food by itself, just some animals do good on it, some don't.
Verbatim:Quote:
Originally Posted by Catlady711
:) Of course not all vets receive kickbacks, but some certainly do.Quote:
Much of what they learn is pushed by Hill's themselves and some vets receive kickbacks for selling Hill's/Science Diet.
It's possible some do. I have seen some vets who's lobbies reminded me more of a PetSmart than a vets office with food, toys, accessories lining the walls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giselle
Sorry I misread your original statement. I'm so used to seeing/hearing people generalize all vets into the same catagory. My mistake, sorry.
Thanks for the info! Our dogs don't seem to have any problem with Science Diet (I mean, they aren't throwing up or anything)... so, I shouldn't even try to switch? Is it not worth trying?
Our vets office does have a small display of Science diet stuff, like pamphlets, sample food bags, and treats. Not much else, but a few dog and cat name tags.
There is a grading system which some folks use. It is a guide, a good place to start. I posted about it here:
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=149509
Two varieties of Science Diet are rated (scroll down). They both came up with an "F" score. So, this means that under this system, there are better foods out there.
I used Science Diet for my cats for years. It was recommended by my vet, and I thought everything was fine. Then I found Pet Talk, and ended up doing some research on my own. I now feed Chicken Soup for the Dog / Cat Lover's Soul, and the pets are doing much better.
I have another question... How many cups of food should an 80# Labrador and a 12# Jack Russell mix eat a day?
I keep saying the lab should only eat 2, maybe 3 cups a day. But my family says that the bag tells them to feed 5-7 :eek:, which I think is just insanely too much! What do you guys think?
A high quality food needs less fed, as it contains all the nutrients, vitamins etc. needed. A low quality food, the pet will need more to get a proper balanced diet; and all the fat, preservatives, fillers etc as well. Which the pet's body may or may not be able to purge.
Good quality, richer, denser food: An 80 lb sedentary lab should eat about 3-4 cups. If he's active, he should eat more. A 12 lb Jack Russell (assuming he's the fairly energetic type) should eat about 1/2-1 cup per day. Mid-poor quality food with a lot of fillers will require more food. I know some foods that recommend 6-8 cups for an 80 pound dog.
You really just have to check the KCal/cup. That pretty much dictates how much you'll have to feed. Higher quality foods tend to to have more KCals/cup (i.e. Innova has something like 500 KCal/cup) whereas lower quality foods have less (i.e. Pedigree has something like 300 KCal/cup). To meet your dog's requirement, therefore, you'll have to feed more of the low-qual stuff.
Logan's previous owners gave her Science Diet, so I was hesitant to switch. She hardly ate at the SPCA and was very thin when I got her. She's now on Science Diet Dry Light for adult dogs, and I also add 1/2 c of wet to the 1 1/2 c of dry 1x a day.
I know it's not the best, from what you all say, but she's very healthy (knocks on wood).
Ever since I discovered Kirkland dog and cat food was good quality (maybe not the best, but for $20 you can get 40 lbs. of dog food. Cat food $15 for 20 lbs. Compared to spending $31 on 40 lbs., on sale with a coupon. And $13 for 5 lbs. of cat food), I'm now switching to that.
Kinda surprised me that it was good quality... I mean it's like grocery store brand almost.
Hi,
Just a note of thought. I know $20 for 40lbs is a "great deal" but you have to consider what quality of ingredients are you getting for $20 bucks. I look at it this way, and i personally feed a mix of raw and Blue Buffalo Holistic (found at petSmart) and Honest Kitchen dehydrated food which I blend with the raw..... would you be healthy if you ate at McDonalds for every meal for the rest of your life, or would you be fat, unhealthy, probably get diabetes, have heart problems etc... everything that comes with a bad diet. Granted it is "cheaper" but the quality is not there. So, it is a question of do you want to feed your pet McDonalds, or something that is of more quality.
Frankly Hills' Prescription and Science Diet are some of the worst brands out there, blue Buffalo is in kibble and can form and is very reasonable and high quality meats and ingredients, most gluten free (the cause of the mass 2007 recall). your pets will do much better, you will see a huge difference in their coats, ears, no bad breath, no stinky farts, my dogs hardly ever fart and when they do it doesn't kill those in the room, lol, etc....
Just wanted to give my 2 cents ;) Monica