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Look at this dog
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Sc...ling_Retriever
Oh yuck its a golden retriever (well its certainly not a toller, neither are the bottom two dogs). Not that I have anything against goldens, but I don't like my dog being turned into one. A few years being registered and the true toller will officially be extinct.
The info said the dog is Seawild's Taste of Trouble. I found more photos of him in a webshots album. It seems he was in a toller specialty show.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/21439...97948138rbQdRF
Most "show" versions of dogs look a bit different than the working versions.
He's too blocky. But his big ears and missing neck are just like Autumn, which is why Autumn would never have been shown or bred. She's a horrible example of the structure of a toller.
that dog head is a bit blocky for my taste, however seawild is an EXELLENT kennel, who happens to breed wonderful working Tollers, if I could get ahold of a Seawild dog, I would do so in a heartbeat, in fact Electra co-owner happens to own that particular dogs sister, Seawilds Taste the rainbow-Skittles. there are some breeders trying to make the Toller look goldeny, but Seawild is far from one of them.
Maybe not all their dogs are "goldeny", but I wasn't just speaking of that kennel. I was speaking of the breed in general getting to far removed from what it used to be.
As for that particular kennel, well now I just think they're confused as to what breed they are producing. Long hound ears, round pug eyes, brown and buff in the coat, and black in the nose, back longer than a corgi. Hunting them on fur too, like hounds. Maybe they should stop while they are ahead. I think I've figured out where my favorite toller mishap came from. Autumn fits right in with that kennel. Should be a new breed altogether, red and white rejectaspaniels. I suppose I can't flame though, but people do ask opinions on kennels here.
He may have a blocky head, but he (and most of the Seawild dogs) has beautiful rear angulation for a toller -- something extremely uncommon in the breed. I have never seen a toller kennel with such consistency in it's decent rears. Fronts could be better, in fact some appear quite poor, but those are easier to get. Bred to show lines with consistently nice fronts, the Seawild dogs, in my opinion, can really contribute to the breed. Tollers have gone downhill as far as structure goes, and rear angulation is it's main fault in my opinion. Rarely do I see a toller that isn't straight-stifled, and very often I see short rear legs (which often goes unnoticed because in this breed a high tail carriage is allowed, which short rear legs often cause). Some heads may not be typey, but the dogs as a whole can still be clearly defined to any knowledgable dog person as tollers.
I also don't find the dog's neck to be short. Not well-arched, but definatly not short.
http://www.seawild.se/images/400_fire106.jpg
You can see in this picture of the same dog, here. If you cut an invisible line through his topline, the head is well above the line. It is only when the line touches or goes through the head that the neck is almost definatly short. He appears to have nice shoulder angulation (hard to tell from a picture, but his front is well set back), but judging from other pictures his legs are placed too far off his body causing his elbows to turn out; Too bad. His pasterns could be better too.
All in all I don't find this to be a particularily bad kennel at all. Like I said, nice rears -- for tollers. That is something I would definatly focus on if I were in the breed. I also don't find their dogs to be long -- I find them to be short-legged which can be confused with long. Their length is actually quite nice, they just need leg to match; Not too hard to get.
Breeding to a standard is harder than it sounds. I am not willing to sacrifice health, movement, temperament, and structure, just because my dog is a bit coarse in the head and half an inch longer than she is tall. Everyone has their priorities.
Enjoyed your post Jordan, very informative. I also think a thick coat in the ruff area can make the neck appear shorter, and photos in general can be deceiving on conformation sometimes.
Exactly *nods* Especially when you have a coated breed, don't judge the dog until you've actually felt it. Maybe if you had a dog with no coat, like say a Greyhound, then you could pass more judgment. Even then, though, pictures can warp the actual dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by K9soul
Funny to read about my own dogs like this ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IRescue452
Long hound ears? Round pug eyes?
Brown and buff? I don't have any brown and buff coats in my breeding. Black noses...well, it's in the breedstandard ;) If you had ANY knowledge about this breed you should know that ;)
Oh, yes...we hunt our dogs...on ALL kinds of game (And yes, incl waterfowl). What's wrong with that?
Maybe you should just send me you dog and she would get a WONDERFUL life as a huntingdog with people that love their dogs no matter how they look.
Another thing....a toller should be longer then it's heigh!
Have a great day!
/Mia that's visiting Canada with one of her pug-hounds