I'm being the best friend that I can be, but I don't know if there is more I can do:(

I had a private chat with Joe last night when I was driving everyone home from our D20 game at Renos place. Joe is last as we live in the same complex... I feel soooo bad for him right now... He told me some VERY private things that he hasn't told anyone before. :( I feel very special that he feels he can talk to me about this kind of thing, but it makes me mad that his best friend is the cause. I don't even know how to help him either, except agree with him that his (our) friend needs a kick to the head. Poor guy needed a hug, but I don't think we're at that stage yet where friends can hug... its kinda a no touchy touchy friendship... as Sun was the first time he touched me (NOT that way.. I got his hands in my face & he messed my hair)... Don't know what to do as I've never delt with this before... I senced that he was close to crying :(

I was going to bring 1 or 2 of our friends along on the trip to Hamilton(where Joe is going for 2 weeks on Sat).. but after last night, I think it'll be best if it was just the 2 of us going. It'll give us about an hour to talk. He almost always opens up to me in my car, as there is NO ONE who can evesdrop (sp).


Heres what upset Joe. Dan our friend has been trying to steal Eva away from Gio(Dan was making up lies about Gio, trying to get Eva to dump him). Eva had NO idea that Dan was doing this. I couldn't take it anymore, as what Eva was thinking was playful horsing around, was NOT in Dan's head... I finally gave in & told Eva. I feared she would get mad at me as I've only met her a couple times (but we hit it off really well).. I told her to becareful as Dan did tell me some things (yes I told her, I felt it was right to)... I spoke to her about 2 weeks ago.. Lastnight she finally grew a pair & told Dan no more horsing around. Shes now in a serious relationship & she feels its wrong to do that (things like being tickled, hugged, etc).. Dan didn't take it well, as to him it was rejection (she would have rejected him anyway, she LOVES Gio very much, & Gio LOVES her very much)...

How does this effect Joe?

Well Dan pulled the same BS with the last 2 girls Joe dated & the girl Joe has been trying to hook up with recently. The first girl Joe dated was abusive. Joe left after 3yrs with her as he couldn't take it anymore. He got Anxiety from it & tried to commit suicide because of what she did to him & the extra stress Dan was putting into the mix. Joe was horribly depressed & just needed a friend. Dan tried to get into her pants & started spreading rumors about Joe & saying nasty things about him :( after almost a year, Joe tried dating again. Joe started dating a girl shortly after I met him. It lasted a week, maybe 2 weeks, because once again Dan stepped in & tried to get into her pants & saying bad things about Joe, so Joe lost her... The girl Joe tried to hook up with just recently was also spoiled by Dan.

Joe cannot take much more of this. He told me he was thinking of going back to Hamilton without telling anyone & loosing full contact. I said please don't do that, I like hangoing out with you. But if you do move, let me know & I'll help, but don't loose contact with me!! I then asked.. Are you coming back from Hamilton after I drop you off there Sat. He said yes he is coming back. Hes just been thinking to skip town as he cannot handle much more of Dan, as Dan is suppose to be his friend.

Joe had this real sad face & asked me this... What are friends really supose to do? I told him not what Dan did to you.. I said I would have let you talk & talk & talk, give my opinion if it was needed & I'd try to take your mind off of it for a while & cheer you up.

I'm making plans to pick up Joe when hes done work tonight (8pm). I'm going to take him out to Wendy's for dinner, then to Timmies for an IceCap, & go for a drive & let him talk if he wants to (I know he'll open up again).


I don't know if there is more that I can do. I don't want my emotions getting mixed up. What I mean by that is that well... I have had a crush on Joe for more then 6 months... When I started hanging out with him, it grew stronger & stronger, hes all I thought about at times... But not to the point I'd try to take him away from anyone... When he was dating that girl for a week or 2... someone tried to convince me to out show her & steal Joe :eek: I was totally shocked & felt discusted! I could never do that to anyone... Once someone is in a relationship (good or bad), they are 100% off bounds to dating... I would honestly rather be a friend of Joes then to steep that low to steal him. I know Joe is a good man, trustworthy & all those good things... well so am I... I don't think he knows how much I like him... But I cannot tell him, as I fear rejection as I know I'm not his type.

Aw I"m sorry for what you and your friend are going through. Friends like this Dan guy are not true friends at all, and are the type that usualy just keep the friend to use him. It's terrible and heart ripping.

All I can say is that you seem to be doing the right thing. Just keep listening to him and making him feel better, just being with him, he will remember you being there for him and know that you are what a real friend is:)

I will pray for Joe that he will get feeling better and be able to make a good decision, whether it be moving or not.

Well, what your doing is the right thing. It seems as if your a true friend to him and I think he feels comfortable around you. Keep doing what your doing and lets hope and pray things will get better for the both of you.

This also doesn't say much for the girls Joe dated...that they would believe Dan without asking Joe and checking with him.

They're at fault too.

If Joe hasn't received any professional help - I mean, he almost killed himself - I think he had better talk to a doctor. He needs to heal, and realize that he deserves better than these two tarts who believed the gossip of an idiot that was trying to get into their pants.

All you can do is listen....that helps him so much! You are a great friend to him.

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Originally Posted by Catty1

This also doesn't say much for the girls Joe dated...that they would believe Dan without asking Joe and checking with him.

They're at fault too.

If Joe hasn't received any professional help - I mean, he almost killed himself - I think he had better talk to a doctor. He needs to heal, and realize that he deserves better than these two tarts who believed the gossip of an idiot that was trying to get into their pants.

All you can do is listen....that helps him so much! You are a great friend to him.

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Joe did seek help. He was put on medication to help as well. He had to be taken off of it, because he went mad when he was on it.. It made things 100 times worse. Ron kept a real close eye on him & it was Ron that made him go back to the dr. cause Joe seemed crazy mad. he would cry, spaz, have crazy panic attacks & hide from everyone (thats NOT Joe at all)...

Joe took a HUGE step that weekend we went to Gio's cottage. Joe brought all his ex's belongings with him. It was Joe & I that destroyed them.. ok it was mostly him. Gio & Jordan stayed away from Joe, as Joe needed personal time... I took photos & videos of Joe destroying his past... He set it on fire in the big fire pit. I know recovering from an abusive ex. is a slow process. It took me forever to toss out a lot of things he bought me. Joe knows I went through the same as him (mine was a little more physical then his abuse). I think thats why we have bonded so well.. we totally understand each other & are good gentle people deep down inside, even though we act REAL tough on the outside...

Heres an example of the Joe that I get to see when we're alone:
Joe acts all tough (goth & metal) & will kill a bug because he can & feels all proud he smooshed it.. We were alone outside at the cottage & a lovely Butterfly landed really close to his foot.. I pointed & he got all gitty over it & was all excited that I took photos of it... he was in awe when I reached down & got it to hold onto my finger... he was also saddened when it flew away.. he watched it until it landed in the field too far away. Thats the sensitive side I get to see.

I will admit I do the same type of thing (without killing anything.. Joe would NEVER harm an animal, hes an animal lover!!).. I act all tough in order to protect myself from everything.. My friends will NOT touch me (as in a hug, smack on the back of the head... you know playful friend things) as they fear I'll rip their faces off. They saw me SNAP very aggressivly at James the first day I hung out with them. All poor James did was put his arm around me in the tiny Jeep & said "Hey Baby", he was being 100% playful & ment NOTHING by it.. But I verbally attacked him & scared the poo out of him... the whole group went quiet & then yelled BURN! I felt horrible (yes I shared this story before, but not in general) Thats not the real me, but thats me over protecting myself by acting all tough as I don't want to get hurt again.

So there was 2 tough acting people admiring the beauty of a butterfly... Joe liked the butterfly so much he put it in his facebook & called the photo Pretty :)

Joe enjoys hanging out with me, because I don't HAVE to be doing or going somewhere to enjoy the day. I don't know how many times I've sat in his room & we said very little. We just watched tv or relaxed... Once he fell asleep on his bed & I just sat beside him on his bed & watched tv... I didn't complain cause I knew he was tired & I wasn't & I just enjoy people being around me. When we are walking with the group, we're almost always walking together & WAY ahead of the group... We talk often, but sometimes we just enjoy the walk & the company of the other. Unlike the rest of the group... They HAVE to be doing something or they complain about being bored & they complain non-stop about walking :(

I really don't want him to move away because of Dan & stupid girls! I know the girls hes going after are mostly poopy girls(demanding, & not ready to stick to 1 guy at a time)... I know he hasn't had a lot of girlfriends, so the mix of poopy girls & Dan is taking its toll on him... He wants to meet the perfect girl, but hes focused WAY too much on looks & keeps looking at the ones at the club we go to... but they are ummmm not 1 man women by far, sure some might be (d'uh I go to that club & I am a 1 man girl by far!!), but not the ones hes looking at... So he keeps getting the bad apples, instead of the type his heart needs... But theres nothing I can do about that, but be there to pick up the pieces... He is slowly looking else where, but they are still clubbers, not wife material(Wife material: you know trustworthy, non-drug addicts, committed type girls).

As you can tell I care a lot about Joe... It kills me to see him like that, but I'll stay by his side like a good friend, like he has done for me... Everytime Chad would yell at me, Joe would invite me over just to get out of that house... He knew I didn't want to be there for Chad's b-day, so he kidnapped me. He does everything he can so we hang out every weekend together.. Its going on what... 4 months that I've seen Joe every single weekend now... about every 2ed or 3rd weekend I'm with Joe for the whole weekend (even nights, never sharing the same spot!!).. He invited me to spend the night at his place once... it was 2am & he didn't want me to drive to Toronto that late. He offered to get his spare mattress, so I could sleep on the floor of his room.. I said I would like to, but if I do, you know we'll never hear the end of this... There are a LOT of rumors about us & sleeping there would have made things worse (at that time)... That was sooo hard to do, but I could have caredless about the rumors, its that I have feelings for him, so sleeping in his room seemed wrong to me.


Sorry for typing so much, but I blab & blab about this topic, as I've never had a crush before. I've never felt like this, so i don't know how to react to a lot of things, its scary to me & I have few people to share my feelings with, as 90% of my friends are guys... & I think the couple female friends I have must be sick of hearing me talk about joe ;)

Yeah, meds affect some people really badly...there are different ones, and I hope Joe talks to a good doctor some day to find a different one to help him for a little while, and talk to someone to help healing on the inside...he has made great strides with the burning of the stuff.

Sometimes places like the Y have free or inexpensive workshops on recovering from abuse...they might be an idea.

The thing I like about good pros is that they can help a person find their own road map, which can save some wrong turns and driving way out of the way!

I don't know how many non-poopy girls he will find in bars...they're not there to find a tutor help them study for their Master's degree! :p

I hope he sticks to friends for now while he still recovers - friends are priceless. Friends like you. :)

Thanks everyone :D

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Originally Posted by Catty1

Yeah, meds affect some people really badly...there are different ones, and I hope Joe talks to a good doctor some day to find a different one to help him for a little while, and talk to someone to help healing on the inside...he has made great strides with the burning of the stuff.

Sometimes places like the Y have free or inexpensive workshops on recovering from abuse...they might be an idea.

The thing I like about good pros is that they can help a person find their own road map, which can save some wrong turns and driving way out of the way!

I don't know how many non-poopy girls he will find in bars...they're not there to find a tutor help them study for their Master's degree! :p

I hope he sticks to friends for now while he still recovers - friends are priceless. Friends like you. :)

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Joe is scared to death to touch, what he calls mind drugs. He wont even touch a joint anymore.. he stopped cold turkey in fear of what happened with the prescription meds.. I'm glad he stopped smoking pot, no one in our group smokes it anyways. We only drink (& thats rare). When I told Joe I want to go on Anxiety meds, the poor guy nearly had a panic attack. Just the thought of me being on it scared him (the meds really traumatized him).

As for the Anxiety, hes doing fairly well. From our talks he use to be so bad that he couldn't even get into a car! He loves going in my car! He was a little quiet the first time & took him a while to go for a drive.. but he trusts me 100% now(he also drives with Gio). He always fights for the front seat lol Its funny to watch him & someone else running towards my car.. he always wins as he is a fast runner lol

:D love your poopy girls comment :D
Thats why I'm not interested in guys when I go to bars & clubs... too many people only want 1 thing & thats not my cup of tea (its not Joe's cup of tea either.. I've seen him turn down HOT girls offering him "things"... he says no & walks away, dissapointed)...

*blushing*
I've always been a good loving friend, I'm just so easy to take advantage of

S.O. had a friend like Dan once. S.O.'s life improved leaps and bounds when he ditched the "friend." (True, i probably never would have talked to S.O. if it hadn't been for the friend and the guy was tons of troublesome fun to be around, but that's as far as that went.) Joe's best bet is to STOP *thinking* of Dan as a friend and just an acquaintance. Second step is to realize that it's no major loss to shut Dan out of his life. I hate being so blunt and cold in my opinion, but that's just how i see it.

Four months is NOT a long time for "convincing" someone to notice you. Play your cards right, have patience, and drop little hints.

Help each other heal. Be his friend first and foremost. If and when the time comes that it feels right get over your worries and pre-conceived notions and tell him that you'd like to try dating him as more that a friend. If you think it would help you could tell him that you two can take things at his pace.

Aside from the dating thing... (Back to friend mode) When you were there talking and you thought you felt that he really needed a hug you could have asked him if he'd like one. He probably knows you know by now that he doesn't like to be touched but I'm sure it would have meant something to him to know you were thinking of his happiness and were considerate enough to put the ball in his court. (Again, part of the healing process. Some people would take this as feeding a male's controlling ego... but no... this is entirely about helping the abused. Every little block of trust building helps.)

You need to keep your eyes open for those little opportunities. ( I guess even though i was shy, meek, abused, unpopular, etc. i was always an opportunist and was good at helping others... when i finally got the chance.) Remember... It is easier to see outside of the raincloud from within; while it is hard for one to look into the storm cloud from outside.* (that speaks of seeing hope as well as understanding.)

* Wow, i just went to paste that into sayings I've come up with and found this "We're not psycho, we're just damaged goods. We need to be loved too. You get us at a discounted price; just we may need a few applications of super glue and duct tape." Just a bit of insight into my life. It was from a conversation i had with someone a while back. It made me smile. There's hope for you and Joe yet. :-) Eventually your pieces will get glued back together.

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Originally Posted by crow_noir

S.O. had a friend like Dan once. S.O.'s life improved leaps and bounds when he ditched the "friend." (True, i probably never would have talked to S.O. if it hadn't been for the friend and the guy was tons of troublesome fun to be around, but that's as far as that went.) Joe's best bet is to STOP *thinking* of Dan as a friend and just an acquaintance. Second step is to realize that it's no major loss to shut Dan out of his life. I hate being so blunt and cold in my opinion, but that's just how i see it.

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most of the group is getting close to ditching Dan.. Eva finally took the correct step & told Dan to back off of her... I'm hoping that'll tone Dan down, & he'll realize that what hes doing is wrong & hes gonna loose us all, it he keeps it up. I swear if he starts looking at me like a piece of meat, I'll... I'll... I'll end it fast! I spoke to Renos, as he was MAD about how all of us were killing each other in the game (Dan killed Joe in the game, it didn't go well at all.. I saw right through Joe, he was hurt BAD... You cannot hide Anxiety from me, I pick it up right away)... I refused to tell Renos any details, but to just restart that part of the game & unkill Joe.

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Originally Posted by crow_noir

Four months is NOT a long time for "convincing" someone to notice you. Play your cards right, have patience, and drop little hints.

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I don't know how to drop hints... I fail bad at this dating stuff... My very first date was when I was 16.. I stayed with him for 7yrs & 3 months (BAD guy).. I've tried dating since, but I keep finding poopy guys.. the last guy wasn't BAD.. he was just wrong for me, but a sweet guy. Joe is my first crush & I'm nearly 25yrs old :( sad I know... I have a few friends helping me out, giving me tips, but I'm the biggest chicken poo you'll ever have met... Kinda why I'm excited about finally going on anxiety meds, so I wont be as much of a chicken poo... I want a normal life darnit!!

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Originally Posted by crow_noir

Help each other heal. Be his friend first and foremost. If and when the time comes that it feels right get over your worries and pre-conceived notions and tell him that you'd like to try dating him as more that a friend. If you think it would help you could tell him that you two can take things at his pace.

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I know since I have met Joe & started talking to him about my past, that I have felt a lot better about myself & my Anxiety has been easier to control... I hope Joe feels better when he talks to me about his issues. I'm sure he does cause he keeps getting me involved in them & he seems like a different person when its just us hanging out & talking about the past.

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Originally Posted by crow_noir

Aside from the dating thing... (Back to friend mode) When you were there talking and you thought you felt that he really needed a hug you could have asked him if he'd like one. He probably knows you know by now that he doesn't like to be touched but I'm sure it would have meant something to him to know you were thinking of his happiness and were considerate enough to put the ball in his court. (Again, part of the healing process. Some people would take this as feeding a male's controlling ego... but no... this is entirely about helping the abused. Every little block of trust building helps.)

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I was driving my car, so giving him a hug prob. would have killed us both lol
Joe has no issues with being touched.. I'm the one with those issues.. He knows it too.. it was about a month ago I got 1/2 a hug from Joe (totally forgot about that.. bad me!! lol).. I lent him my hacking cards for the DS. I told him he can keep them until I need them back... He was gonna buy his own, but I told him not to.. I said I only need the card when I go to PEI & I'm not going for a year + so there is no rush.. the cards would just collect dust other wise... He was so happy he hopped over & gave me 1/2 a hug, as he knows I don't like being touched (what he didn't know is that i would have acepted a big hug from him anyday LOL)...

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Originally Posted by crow_noir

You need to keep your eyes open for those little opportunities. ( I guess even though i was shy, meek, abused, unpopular, etc. i was always an opportunist and was good at helping others... when i finally got the chance.) Remember... It is easier to see outside of the raincloud from within; while it is hard for one to look into the storm cloud from outside.* (that speaks of seeing hope as well as understanding.)

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I think I struck a good nerve of his this morning.

I couldn't get a hold of him yesterday, so i assumed 1 of 2 things.. 1 he wasn't getting my text messages again (when hes underground my text messages get lost.)... or he was still really down & wanted to be left alone...

I was talking to him on MSN (like I do every morning when at work) & he forgot to turn his phone back on... he was happy that I thought about him though... So I "told" him I'm kidnapping him tonight, as its play all night at the Playdium for 22.00. He was all excited, then said but I have to get the duffel bag From Ron & Karen's.. I said, ya & I live there remember! So I'll put it in my car when I get there after work, then I'll pick you up at work & off we go!

What he doesn't know is that I'm taking him out for dinner too. I know he LOVES A&W, so we're gonna hit the Mall for A&W, then gonna go to the Playdium! Last time the 2 of us went to the Playdium, we didn't want to leave, as we couldn't peel ourselves from the games!! Air Hockey was the best! We spent most of our time there & thats where I know we'll both run to first. We don't play nice, we play as rough as we can & hit the puck as hard as we can... We can get a lot of air on those little pucks LOL I always get hit by the puck too.. Joe kept hitting my poor *you know*... the last time it was a speeding puck & I nearly dropped... I was laughing in pain, cause it was too funny.. I thought Joe was gonna die laughing, as he nearly fell hehehe :D

Before he left for work, he was very excited about going to the playdium :)

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Originally Posted by crow_noir

* Wow, i just went to paste that into sayings I've come up with and found this "We're not psycho, we're just damaged goods. We need to be loved too. You get us at a discounted price; just we may need a few applications of super glue and duct tape." Just a bit of insight into my life. It was from a conversation i had with someone a while back. It made me smile. There's hope for you and Joe yet. :-) Eventually your pieces will get glued back together.

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I really liked that.. thank you

Well it sounds like you have your eggs all in the basket so to speak.

Sorry i got a few details mixed up. *blush*

As for this being your first crush... You'll figure things out in time and develop your own style of handling situations. So long as you truly know yourself and don't hide your feelings from yourself you'll do fine. Remember to always be truthful with yourself.

Yay! I hope you and Joe have a great time tonight! (Whooo dinner! Food is they key to any man's heart right? ;) )

I'm excited to hear as your night went... You've got a plan worked out, and I think it's a great idea! :D

I ended up crying & pouting most the night.... I felt like someone stomped on my chest :(

As I was just getting onto the 427 (the HWY that gets me to the airport to pick up Joe) I got a text message from Joe (the message arrive to me late, not his fault), saying that Gio was going to pick him up after work & they were going to go out drinking.

Needless to say I wasn't overly happy.. I messaged Joe back once I arrived back to the place I'm staying at. I said so your ditching me! Joe replied, Gio twisted my hand, blah blah blah(random Joe talk).... I said, SO you ditched me to see Gio :( Then I got a reply from Gio saying, it was his fault that Joe was with him... I said thats fine, but if Joe didn't want to go to the Playdium with me, he should have said so when I invited him! Gio replied that he had no idea Joe & I had plans.

See what I think happened is that Joe forgot we made plans to go out, as him ditching a friend, is not Joe at all. Then he was totally embarrassed & had Gio talk to me instead, as Joe never has someone talk for him either.

I'm not MAD at Joe, I'm just hurt. I know he had a rough week, Fri was his last shift & then he was on holidays for 2 weeks, so his mind was busy as hell (I've done it too)... I'm just hoping he admits to forgetting & says sorry to my face.

I'm sorry to hear that. Joe seems like a reasonable person, and I think he'll apologize to you. :(

*hugs*