Highly recommend this.....

To anyone experiencing a problem with their pooch - read The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell. I read it from cover to cover in two evenings and realised that I had been getting things wrong from the start.

I started Jan's method (Amichien) with Tobey and Archie the very next day and am amazed at the change in them!!! The responsiblity of pack leader has been taken from them (although I hadn't realised I had given it to them until I read the book) and I can honestly say that for the first time since we got them I actually feel like I am the one in charge.

I havent read that one but will look for it- thank you for the tip!

Here's the link

http://www.janfennellthedoglistener.com/

I have a book by her and, even though I agreed with most of what she says, there were a couple of things I certainly could not agree with and my own dogs I owned at the time were the ones to prove her advice wrong.

For example, when trying to sort out a couple of jack russells who were trying to kill each other, she advised to not feed one before the other as they can look like favouritism but then dogs being pack animals that function as a strict heirachy with no equality, I think this sort of goes against what dogs are.

She said in the book that the two jack russells stopped fighting after treatment but they could never be left alone with each other. To me, this isn't really the full cure I'd be after.

I had the same problem with my two BC bitches at one point and I started doing everything with one of them first, making it clear to the other that the first was higher ranking and that she had my favour as higher ranking but with me being higher ranking than them both otherwise I wouldn't have been able to have the desired effect.
I made a point of feeding the first bitch first, putting her lead on first and letting her off it first, fussing her first, everything. Whilst I did this, everything was perfectly fine and they were even totally safe to be left alone together but if I was to slip up, especially in the early days of treatment, the lower bitch would attack the higher one and they'd start fighting. Even doing something at the same time would make them fight because they'd get confused as to who held what position. It was feeding Mist first for example, that told Jess she was considered lower ranking and that Mist was higher ranking and being as the fighting was purely over rank, doing this solved the problem a treat.

Abviously, as time went by and they settled into their positions, the odd little mistake by me when I was on another planet for whatever reason wouldn't matter anymore. Point is, I did the total opposite to her and got better results. My dogs spent their whole lives together since then and spent plenty of time alone together without problems.

In a wolf pack, the higher ranks eat first, no question. There is no making sure they get their food given to them at the exact same time to avoid favouritism.

Two behaviourists that I have more respect for and have learnt most of what I know from are John Fisher and Peter Neville. Both british behaviourists. I have books by them too and they made much more sense to me.
I always recommend their books to people. If you can find anything by either of these guys, I'd recommend you picking one up. :)

Thanks for that - always interested to read other people's ideas. Will keep an eye out for these authors

Canis Lupess- your points in feeding is absolutely correct! We feed by rank here- cookies by rank- put the leashes on - by rank, brush them- by rank.. I even call them by rank- read my posts- I usually type " Hottie, Femka, Zubin and Galina.." lol.. I learned that when I had shepherds- and never changed it..

Hehe, yes. :D

Once you start learning about dog behaviour in general, it is surprising how much more your dogs can teach you themselves. It's about learning to detach yourself from the human way of thinking that is the hardest part and once you've done that, you can figure out so much more for yourself by just watching your dogs behave.

I started researching dog behaviour when I was 12 and it was such a leap for me in other ways too because learning about animal behaviour also teaches you a lot about human behaviour but learning about human psychology doesn't seem to enlighten you about animals.

Have you noticed that too?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Canis-Lupess

Hehe, yes. :D

Once you start learning about dog behaviour in general, it is surprising how much more your dogs can teach you themselves. It's about learning to detach yourself from the human way of thinking that is the hardest part and once you've done that, you can figure out so much more for yourself by just watching your dogs behave.

I started researching dog behaviour when I was 12 and it was such a leap for me in other ways too because learning about animal behaviour also teaches you a lot about human behaviour but learning about human psychology doesn't seem to enlighten you about animals.

Have you noticed that too?

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My parents raised cavaliers- and even they had a standing order. I grew up this way- but I will say- having that many shepherds at one time ( most I had at one time was 35!) but mostly like 23, they each had a rank, and felt their rank was important.
Even the Borzois are like this- if I give Galina her cookie before femka- I swear I get a confused look by Femka. It makes meal times, cookie times, and daily household stuff easier because they all know-- who comes next..
I even found like with the shepherds- if a middle dog died- the under that was under that dog- was confused for a day or two- taking their cue they were next by the now missing dog. They were the one that acted depressed- not the ones above the missing dog in rank- it was the ones under that dog..
I have found dogs like knowing their status- they are calmer and more relaxed. Even my now floor flop- where hottie will go lay down on the floor- then femka comes- Zubin waiting and when she is down- he will come- and same with galina- they NEVER lay out of order.. its sooooooo strange. If they are going to sleep in a " group flop" in one area- its the same way... I have also found that the few times I have chaos- is when the " rank and file" is broken- like if I have to take one dog to the vet- .. The other 3 seem shocked- wait a minute- " why didnt I go too???".. Unless the returning dog is Hottie- " master borzoi of them all" the one over the returning dog will walk around the dog with a raised tail- .. I always when bringing a subdominant dog back into the house- go straight to the cookie jar- and re establish the same order- ie here it would be " HOTTIE , FEMKA, ZUBIN, Galina... "..
In all my years of having not one- but a pack of dogs- I have only had one fight- one.. And that was two brothers when the boss dog ( their father) died. And that was my fault.. As two brothers- treated as equals of not setting one over the other on a consistant basis- ( sometimes it would be Midas Zubin- other times Zubin Midas.. -no not the borzoi zubin..).. After that fight- I took the smarter one of the two as the boss- Midas.. No more problems..
In the first photo- you can see Femka started it- in the second photo- obviously galina just joined.. ( the camera woke up hottie.. lol.)

LOL, I bet they take up some space when all sprawled out like that. They wouldn't fit in any one room in our house, haha. Everything seems to be bigger in the states. On our little island, things are often much smaller.

I agree that dogs much prefer to know their place. People who allow their dogs too many privileges to the point where it thinks it is higher ranking than them don't realise how stressed their dog is because it is constantly being inadvertantly challenged and always on it's guard as a result. Such a dog can never relax.
Still, some people refuse to accept that dogs think differently than humans. They refuse to respect it for the creature that it is and insist it is a human child subsitute instead.

My aunt and uncle are like that with their jack russell, their obese jack russell I might add. Whenever somebody goes to the house like myself and my aunt pays attention towards the visitor, this jack russell screams it's head off as loud as it can. My aunt whinges at me to give her a fuss because thats all she thinks she wants but I always refuse and totally ignore her instead. Thats what makes her do it to start with, giving in and fussing her. Then when they get sick of hearing her because she really is loud and shrill, they shout at her and that just makes her worse but they refuse point blank to listen to me.
She's bitten them all too when they've tried removing her from the settee or bed and my uncle can't sleep in the master bed with my aunt anymore. He has to sleep elsewhere because she won't let him in the bed. :mad: I know what I'd do with her, haha. *Devil smiley*
I told them years ago she'd start doing that and I'm right but they still won't listen to me.

After I have finished my current painting, they want me to paint this jack russell for them. I said I'd do her providing the docked tail couldn't be seen and also avoid doing the fat body to start with so the painting will mainly be her head and such.

People make a big mistake of "WELL I AM ALPHA" and the dogs are whatever- .. dogs like to know where they go in the pack.. It prevents chaos and worries and behavior problems as well..

I've read the book by Jan Fennell and really enjoyed it. She really lays out in easy-to-understand terms the way to be a leader without being "aggressive", but by consistent behaviors that dogs understand. I enjoyed her stories, although oddly I don't remember the one about two JRTs wanting to kill each other. It has been awhile since I read the book but I don't recall that one. The only thing I remember disagreeing with is that she seemed to imply that every single behavioral problem a dog may have has to do with either the dog trying to be alpha or the dog believing it has the responsibility of being alpha, or feeling insecure and uncertain of the pack order. While I do believe a good many behavioral problems stem from this, I don't think ALL of them do in EVERY case. Sometimes she seems to oversimplify it some, but I would definitely recommend the book to others, especially new dog owners or people not very familiar with dog behavior and a dog's way of "thinking." She really explains and illustrates her points well. I think most dog behavioral issues could be helped by following her advice on how to take the leadership role in the relationship.

I've read Jan Fennell's book and just loved it. I do disagree on the pack thing though. I too have made the mistake of trying to feed by taking turns, but have come to realize that their order should remain what it is. I feed by order now also. All in all I thoroughly enjoyed her book. I've also read "Beyond Obedience" by April Frost, didn't find it as interesting as Jan Fennell. :)

If you're interested in this method, I would highly reccoment reading more on/watching Cesar Millan, (Dog whisperer), who has a show on National Geographic Channel. Ever since I've heard about him I can't stop watching his show, and his methods are unsurpassed (in my opinion). He also has a book out, Cesar's Way.

Excellent! I will be doing a lot of reading in the near future :D