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I was just wondering what the differences are in these two breeds? They look so much alike yet their personalities seem so different. I've always been interested in owning a Sheltie until I worked at a vet, then I realized that they were a little bit too much for me (great dogs, but not for me ;)). However, every Collie I've met I've just "clicked" with and I'd love to own one some day.
Are they related breeds?
Shelties are much smaller (as you probubly noticed :p ) and they are much more active (well... that what it seems like to me). I don't know much about either of those breeds but I hope I could help you a little bit.
They are completely different breeds, with collies being the older of the two breeds and originating in different areas, although thought to have a common ancester. Shelties are not, as so many seem to think, miniature collies, except in looks. I had collies and was around a lot of collies and shelties and overall their temperments are pretty different too (this has been my personal experience and isn't meant as an all-encompassing "fact" as there are always exceptions!).
I found shelties to be more highly energetic and needing of a job to do. My collies had high energy when they were outdoors but inside became big lazy rugs, unlike the shelties I have been around :p. They are both herding breeds and have herding breed traits. My collies were calm and laid back and generally more trusting and easy with all types of people/children than many shelties I have been around. This is NOT to say that shelties can't be just as good with kids, I just personally experienced that collies were more tolerant.
Anyway, I found this article that explains more about the origins and differences, some of which is obvious but might answer some of your questions :).
http://hem.passagen.se/nightwin/articles/colltie.htm
Wow, thank you so much, that helps a lot! I haven't met very many Collies, but I had noticed that they seemed much calmer than the Shelties I know. Shelties are just a bit too much for me. I've thought about Collies a lot so to train them to be therapy dogs.
collies are older? from everything I have learned shelties are older. they are 2 entirly differnt breeds though, Shelties were on on the shetland islands to be small sheepdogs to suit the sheep they had. Collies however are not related, originally there was just Collies, all of the collie breeds(rough,smooth, border,and bearded) were just called collies, but they were deveoped in differnt areas and because of this they deveoped differntly, the show crowd came along and took over most of the Collie breeds, all exept Border collies which were not taken till much later, the original rough and smooth collies did not look much like they do today, they are pretty much entirly a show breed now, as are shelties. they may look alike but their history is very differnt lol
Yeah I've seen pictures of old Collies and they look more like Border Collies. It's so wierd what the breeds have developed into today. (Show) Labs look pretty different too, and some other breeds.
It is a fact that collies are an older breed than shelties, but the original collie was more a border collie type dog than today's collie.
Today's sheltie has collie ancestry so I don't see how they can be the older breed. It was collies from Scotland that were imported to the Shetland Islands where the sheltie was "developed." The scottish border collie was the original collie and later the three evolved but the rough collie in any dog breed book where it lists the era of origination always has an older one than the sheltie.Quote:
The Shetland Sheepdog, like the Collie, traces to the Border Collie of Scotland, which, transported to the Shetland Islands and crossed with small, intelligent, longhaired breeds, was reduced to miniature proportions. Subsequently crosses were made from time to time with Collies. This breed now bears the same relationship in size and general appearance to the Rough Collie as the Shetland Pony does to some of the larger breeds of horses.
Taken from here (as well as read in many many other sources as I was highly involved with collies growing up): http://www.akc.org/breeds/shetland_sheepdog/index.cfm
I find shelties to be alot more energetic, playful, and focused. I find them to have more drive therefore making better workers. Collies are heading into a nasty place due to breeders who focus too much on looks. My friend (the sheltie breeder)'s mom bred collies but left the breed because the brains were being bred out of them -- and it's true -- judges keep asking for the eyes to be smaller and closer together. There is only so much you can do when breeding only for looks. I find that collies are much less shy though and better around people. Shelties are prone to shyness and nippiness, and they can be difficult to groom, but I've never met a collie that wasn't friendly or easy to groom. They are laid-back and very sweet. Overall, I would have a sheltie over a collie -- I would want something with more energy, drive, and speed.
I've heard that the Shelties are more timid and nervous dogs than Collies.
I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I read it on a breed site.
I do not relate collies with lower energy. Imagine walking into a house and having three giant wedge noses coming at you from all directions. Before you set foot in the door you are pinned. Then one grabs a toy and the others run for it. Two get into it over the toy and the other stands over them barking like crazy. Then they get under the table legs and knock over everything. This can go on for hours. Bring them outside and they need to run run run and chase everything in sight. This is the scene at my future uncle-in-laws house each time I go over there. These dogs are local obedience trial champs and yet this is how they are at home. They run the house, they bark constantly, and they don't loose any energy inside. I myself have never met a calm collie. As for wolfsoul saying the brains are bred out of them, its so true. These three collies are daft as they come, but they can put on a good show in front of a judge somehow. Sweet though and very loving
Shelties on the other hand I've met many. I've met sizes ranging from 12 inches to 20 inches. They bark a lot. I've met calm ones, and hyper ones. They seem more trainable. All the shelties I have met are yard trained and have some house manners. They seem much more calm in the house as compared to the collies I've met.
If you are looking for a clam breed though, I don't recommend either.
I wouldn't make breed recommendations based off meeting three collies in one home. I have had two, and have been around many, many collies due to being involved in showing Willie, and what you described is not what the majority of the hundreds of collies I've been around are like. I somehow doubt Parnone's are that way, or Julie's Molly either. I can't stand it when people judge a breed negatively from the behavior of a few they have been around. I never said collies were "low energy" I said they are lower energy than shelties in general. I also said there are always exceptions.
As for intelligence, well yes some breeders are much more into looks but I have still been around plenty of very smart collies, both of my boys were with Willie being a bit brighter than Cody in some ways. Willie was very hyper when young but mellowed at about 3-4 although was always a ball of energy when outdoors. Both of them were calm relaxed dogs indoors. They went to nursing homes and into a professional photographer's studeo (who said they were the best behaved dogs he had photographed) and many other places where calmness and obedience was required and they did wonderfully.
Yes I have been around some collies that aren't like that, but the majority I have been around fit the collie standard pretty well as far as behavior.
Also as an aside, I think many dogs act differently when guests are over than their normal behavior when just their owners are home. I know as soon as a guest comes, Tommy is up there showing every toy he owns to them trying to impress them :p. If it's a man, Tash is suspicious and growly and not her normal sweet relaxed self, etc etc.
I ran into quite a bit of that "Collies are Dumb" attitude from trainers, that is until they saw Oz and Gull in action. Then they rephrased it to Rough Collies are Dumb, which I don't think is true either. With any breed, poor breeding, leads to a poor representation of the breed and the more popular, the higher the probability for bad breeding. Since Roughs are still leaps and bounds more popular then Smooths, there's more opportunity to run into a badly bred, Rough. Judging from the Collie lists I hang out at, with both Rough and Smooth Collies excelling in agility, herding and obedience, etc., there are quite a lot of highly intelligent Collies running around out there. There's one breeder on the list, supplying Smoothes to one of the Guide Dog organizations. In Israel, the only breed that could pass the criteria to be an Alzheimer's Service Dog, was the Collie. Somehow, I'd think Collies would have to possess some level of brainpower for them to be sought after in these types of endeavors.
As to the energy level and behaviorial issues. I view them as moderate energy level. I'm not a very active person and I've easily been able to give mine enough exercise to be calm and well behaved in the house. If they are starting to get rambunctious in the house, that's my queue to go get the frisbee and head outside to play with them for 5 or 10 mins, then they're pooped and ready to lay around while I watch TV or surf the internet. As with obedience training, you have to train good house behavior and Collies wanting so much to please you, will conform to the boundaries you set, pretty quickly. The only training issue I've ever had to really work with them on is barking, but from my observations of Shelties, they're generally more barky then the Collies, so I don't think you're gonna gain anything in that area with a Sheltie.
One big difference I've observed between the two is that the Collie seems to be more outgoing with strangers. Shelties don't seem all that gung ho to be petted by people they don't know, at least all the ones I've met. They seem to be more standoffish and have more of a serious demeanor. Collies can be quite playful, even with strangers and have a bit of a sense of humor about them. I know my agility club was quite amused when Oz, clipped my legs out from under me when I crossed in front of him. Then as I was sprawled out on the grass, he ran back and jumped on my chest, and stood there nudging me with his nose to play. And Gull is even more of a character. I sometimes view him as having a 80lb terrier. :)
Anywho, I love Shelties too and would love to own one someday, maybe when I'm too old for as big of a dog as a Collie. So my talking up of Collies was in no way meant as a talking down about Shelties. I think they're great lil' dogs. Highly intelligent and devoted to their people.
Par...
I don't have much experience with Collies but I thought I'd add in my personal experiences with Shelties. I've found that Shelties are generally high strung and would love nothing more than to run and bark all day. Of course, there are exceptions as with any breed.. my boys are laid back most of the time. They get their occasional "bark, chase, bark, ball, bark, bark, bark" moments.
They're known for being barkers (yeah, I know.. it can be "trained" out of them.. but it still comes VERY naturally to Shelties) as well as being "reserved" with strangers. Both my boys hold conversations (LOL) and are reserved with strangers as well.
Why do people think Collies are dumb?? I've never met a dumb Collie.. I find them to be extremely intelligent!!
I love both breeds, they're great dogs but I've also noticed the differences in the breeds that have been mentioned. I consider ALL well-bred herding dogs to be extremely keen and intelligent, of course their breeding has a ton to do with it, but both Shelties and Collies should be very bright dogs. Collies I've noticed are more friendly and inquisitive, but I've met my share of really laid back, friendly Shelties too! I think socialization and training has a lot to do with how they turn out as adults. Both should have enough energy to herd livestock all day, so I would consider both active dogs!