Is there hope to get him to heal?

[Suki Wingy]

I understand this is very long, if you can’t help me, that’s ok. I’m saving up for a trainer anyway.

I have a dog who was described as a Beta Bully by our very own PTer Glacier. “I'd bet that Nino is what I call a Beta Bully--second place in pack order and thinks they should be the alpha.”
We have had him for 5 years, since he was 6-8 months old. He’s a mutt, best guess American Cattle Dog/ American Pit Bull Terrier mix. He acts like a typical terrier. He has his place in the family, mom and dad are alpha, and he knows it, then comes me, and he thinks I’m the dominant littermate but he is still a huge brat, he steals hats and scarves in the backyard, he jumps up on us and plays a little tag game that we just can’t seem to train him out of. He acts like an older brother to my two sisters who are much younger than me.

My dad claims he walks fine on his prong and just pops him back when he pulls, I tried it but the more I pull him, the more he pulls back. I have tried a halti, but even though I went through the whole pre-training and everything, he still will not keep it on. I used to walk him with the halti and his prong, but he still tried to run off and roll in the grass to get it off every time we slowed down. When I walk him in a harness he thinks it’s time to pull because we used to have him pull someone on a skateboard. With a sporn halter/harness he went in bursts of speed, them slowing down to a stop again when the harness stopped him from moving. The under-arm strings also bothered him greatly.

My parents read the Monks of New Skete (http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/index.html) book and that is the way he was raised. Someone gave me the book Introduction to Dog Agility by Margaret H. Bonham (click here to go to books.google page and search and read parts of it) (http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&vid=ISBN0764114395&id=WeylCn55BYIC&num=10&pg=PP3&lpg=PP3&dq=inauthor:margaret+inauthor:h+inauthor:bonham&prev=http://books.google.com/books%3Fas_q%3D%26num%3D10%26as_epq%3D%26as_oq%3D% 26as_eq%3D%26as_brr%3D0%26as_vt%3D%26as_auth%3D'ma rgaret%2Bh.%2Bbonham%2522%26as_pub%3D%26as_drrb%3D c%26as_miny%3D%26as_maxy%3D%26as_isbn%3D&sig=xlJKhkKE02vuIVOPZRQaRM-D72c) and I basically trained him from the training section (pretty much positive reinforcement, set your dog up to succeed so he can’t fail)
When I walk him, I have been training him the way the trainer we took our first dog to at Petsmart taught us. At first he was fine with it and it was starting to work for about two days, then he started to just ignore it.
The way she taught us was to do an about turn as soon as she pulled, and keep doing that until eventually we got to where we were going.
Niño’s problem though is that when I tell him he’s doing a good job, he speeds up and so I stop saying ‘good boy’ (usually sounds like ‘good-’ ) I have been doing a number of exercises to make sure he knew the difference between ‘good boy’ and ‘ok’. I make him sit, tell him ‘good boy’ and then walk a step forward and when he breaks his sit I tell him, ‘no, sit’ and he does, and I reward him, then tell him ‘ok’. When he breaks the sit I reward him.
I’ve also trained him another totally different command to speed up, but he still doesn’t seem to understand ANYTHING that I try to train him.
This is what I have been doing (text from the Monks website) and It only began to work for a short while, until he started to ignore it ALL, not just the leash poping.

Note how we emphasize the importance of reversing directions in a 2 step correction. This is important because it immediately checks the dog's desire to lead and puts the owner out in front, reinforcing in the dog's mind the owner's position of leadership. Go back and forth as necessary, popping the leash and reversing directions as needed. Thus, the sequence is as follows:
· letting the dog get out in front
· when the dog begins to forge, give a leash pop as you say "NO!"
· reverse directions 180 degrees and start walking in the other direction
· repeat this, going back and forth, until the dog starts to avoid the leash corrections and pay attention
· As the dog goes into the heel position, praise it warmly

[Dixieland Dancer]

It sounds like you are trying too many different kinds of training with this dog. I must admit if I were him, I would be confused too. I was getting confused just reading the post!

Be aware that the pop and choke method you mentioned at the bottom of the post is really not a positive dog training method. It is a correction that the dog gets when it does something wrong. In positive dog training the dog gets a reward for doing something right and doing things wrong are ignored.

Basically, your dog does not recognize you as someone who has authority over him. You are doing a good thing by getting someone to help. It is hard to give advice without seeing how you and the dog interact together. Try to find someone with a lot of experience and a proven track record. Perhaps your vet can make a local recommendation. I'm wishing you the best success!

[Suki Wingy]

thanks for reading it. It has been a span of 5 years that I tried all that. He's been doing the same thing now for aout a year and a half. The only thing though is that if I ignore what he does wrong he takes it that he can go and run of do whatever he wants to do.

[BitsyNaceyDog]

I'd try the halti again. It'll stay on him if you learn how to use it properly. I've seen it work on several major pullers.


he steals hats and scarves in the backyard, he jumps up on us and plays a little tag game that we just can’t seem to train him out of. He acts like an older brother to my two sisters who are much younger than me.

I know you said that he knows your parents are the alpha, but honestly it doesn't sound like he does. He needs to think of all of you as being above him. I'd first get the jumping to stop. If he jumps on you tell him "off" and make him get off of you, don't play tag with him when he does that. Keep that up and you'll break him of that habit. A squirt in the face with a water bottle helps too. You can add a little bitter apple spray to the water bottle and squirt him in the mouth when he jumps on you. Reward him when he gets off you.

[catnapper]

Clear out your PM box -- I need to PM you regarding this. :)

[flip195]

Personally I would suggest you institute a NILIF training program with all your dogs.

ACD's are at best a stubborn breed that need a job, pits are pretty driven and stubborn also so you have the best and worst of both breeds. Firm, ongoing training with NILIF usually works very well.

I find this works wonders.

Here are the basics, (but if you goole NILIF you will find more indetail info)

Rules:

1. Dogs must be on leash at all times

Any time the dog is out of their crate they must be leashed. If you are taking them out to toilet, they go on leash. If they are hanging out in the living room with you, they are on leash. If you are moving around and doing things and the dog is not in their crate, attach their leash to you and have them accompany you around the house. If you aren’t able to hold onto the leash because what you’re doing is too complicated, then the dog can hang out in their crate with a chew toy until you are able to let them out again on leash.

2. Dogs must sit to make doors open

Everything from the crate door to the front door is controlled by the dog sitting. Stand at the door (crate door, house door, whatever…it doesn’t matter so long as it opens). Wait for the dog to offer a sit. As soon as they do give your release work and open the door. If the dog is very slow about sitting you can ask for a sit (once!) but that’s only during the first couple of days. Then you have to wait for it. As they get better at this you can teach them to wait for permission to go through the door. Once they’ve sat start to open the door, if the dog gets up close the door again and wait for a sit. Once they sit start to open the door, if they get up close it and wait again. Eventually you’ll be able to open the door the whole way while the dog waits. Give the dog the release word and proceed through the door. This will take some patience to teach, so if you aren’t able to work on it, wait for the sit, release the dog and then open the door.

3. No more bowls

Food no longer comes from a bowl. Dogs must work for their food. You can use the dog’s food as training rewards. Measure out their food for the day and use it to work on obedience things, or as rewards for being well behaved. If there is food leftover at the end of the day, you can have a training session to use it up or you can stuff a kong with it. Since you’re doing lots of training at this time, make sure you’ve got food on your person at all times, or easily accessible in every room.

4. Barking doesn’t work

If the dog is barking in their crate do not talk to them, go near the crate or in any way interact with the dog until you have had 1 minute of silence. Barking in the crate does not get you out or toys or anything. For all other barking that takes place outside of the crate, if the dog barks say “thank you” in a happy tone and put them in their crate for a 30 second time out. If they are quiet after 30 seconds they can come out. Essentially, barking is the dogs way of asking for a time out (gotta love this kinda psychology).

5. Head halters are a part of life

Any time the dog is not in their crate they should be wearing their head halter. This helps it become just another piece of “clothing” that the dog wears. They may be displeased with it for the first few days but they should quickly get over it if they are wearing it all the time. This will also give you more control in the house, should you require it.

6. Dogs stay on the floor

Until the dog has earned back the privilege he is not allowed on furniture (couches, beds, chairs, etc). This can be re-established as his overall behaviour improves. Once you’ve decided that you’re ready to reintroduce furniture privileges spend a week working on “on” and “off”. Teach him to wait for permission to get up on the furniture and practice asking him to get off the furniture. Reward all “off’s” with high value treats. He needs to know it’s worth his while to get off when asked. Once he’s good at “on” and “off” you can start to allow him use of the furniture with permission. If he gets on the furniture without permission tell him “too bad” and give him a 30 second time out in the crate. Then take away furniture privileges for a couple more days while you work on “on” and “off” some more.

7. People initiate interactions

If the dog wants attention, to play or anything else, he must ask politely for it. To ask politely he must sit first. If he comes up and nudges you or shoves a toy at you ignore it. When he stops and gives up, ask for a sit and then give him what he wanted (attention or play time). He should start to figure out that coming a sitting by you is what works. When he does that, make sure you pay attention to him!

8. There’s no free lunch

Just like you work to earn the money to buy the kibble, your dog must work to earn their kibble. If you are in doubt about whether the dog has to do something to get something the answer is always “yes”! Dog wants to go in the car, they have to sit first. Dog wants to have a cookie, they have to sit first. Dog wants anything, they have to sit first. Make sure your dog is working for the things that he wants.

Some things to keep in mind:

The NILIF system is not about dominating the dog. It is about teaching the dog there are rules in the house and only those who follow the rules get privileges. It is about teaching the dog that there is structure to life. Dogs do best with structure and this program provides a nice framework that can be adapted by any family. There are no punishers in the NILIF system. The worst thing that happens is a “too bad” and a time out in the crate

[MariaM]

Hey. I had problems with Major as a puller. The halti works good with him. I know you said that didn't work though. I'd suggest reading the book, "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell. (I think thats how you spell her last name). If you don't want to buy it, you can get it from a library perhaps. It's really really good. It talks about the alpha and things from a dogs point of view.

[Suki Wingy]

MariaM, I'll look for the book when I go to the library this weekend. flip195, I see how this would work but I really don’t think my parents and sister will follow this. I think it would be a wonderful method for a person who lived alone with one dog. There are times when they are home and I can’t be, no matter what I say my mother will let him out. I get the concept though and I’ll add the door to the list of things he has to sit for, and I’ll keep him off my bed for a while like you said. I’ll also put him in the halti in the backyard. Thanks for replies everyone, he’s doing a lot better on his walks already. I’ll update for you later.

[VTJess03]

Just one brief comment about the halti. I use them on both my dogs, but the NILIF method of leaving them on all the time did not work with one of mine as far as getting her used to it. She rubbed and scratched and messed with it so much that she got a sore on the top of her nose (this was only in 2 days time, too). They wear them as 'going out' clothes, but not as everyday clothes now.