A crazy dog!

[Mary101]

One of my dogs (I have 3) has suddenly become aggressive towards one of my other dogs. This dog has recently "gone after" one of the other dogs almost without let up, and on two occasion has drawn blood. Not much, but enopugh for me to worry that this will situation will get worse. This dog is fine with people -- Mr. Friendly. I should add that the dog is a male and the other dog that he goes after is also a male, and a little smaller and younger than he is. The third dog, which this one he leaves alone, is a VERY mellow female. In addition to this yesterday, when my husband took this dog on a road trip, the dog peed all over the inside of the vehicle, which he has NEVER done before. This dog has always enjoyed riding in the car and is in love with my husband. My husband said that this dog was whining and trembling and did not want to get out of the vehicle when they got to their destination, a place this dog has been numerous times and one he usually enjoys visiting. My husband physcially took the dog out and then the animal appeared to be fine. It seems as if this dog has suddenly gone crazy. I guess my questions is -- what could have triggered this? What does this all mean? and what can I do about it? HELP!

[carrie]

Straight away and as soon as possible this dog needs to go to the vet!!

Explain the sudden change in behaviour, when you noticed it, what the dog was like before and how quickly things have changed.

Tell the vet (and us if the vet checks out OK) how long you have had each dog, what sex and how old each dog is, if the dogs have been neutered and anything that has changed in the past few weeks....have you had a baby, moved house, changed jobs..... anything?

If the vet check is OK let us know and if not let us know. You make it sound like a sudden thing and the vet will need as much information as you can give.

Please let us know what the vet says.

[Mary101]

I have just returned from taking "crazy dog" to the vet. The vet.'s says that there is nothing physically wrong with the dog, but that he is having "psychological problems." The vet. is not sure what might have triggered the behavior, which has been going on for about 3 days. We have not had any major upsets in our home life. We added a "new" dog to our pack about 4 months ago. It is this dog that "crazy dog" is going after. The "new dog" just gets on his back, submissive posture, but "crazy dog" won't let him up for ages. After I took "crazy dog" home from the vet.'s I tied him in the yard:( just to give the other dog a break from getting beat up. Now, what about the peeing in the car behavior? The vet. said that there could be a variety of causes. He really didn't give me any ideas about how to adjust the canine relationships in our pack, or how to prevent the peeing and other hysteria in the vehcile. Any ideas will be most welcome.

[sammi]

Sorry I have no ideas to help you but, what is the dogs name besides "Crazy Dog"?

[Mary101]

"Crazy dog" isn't very nice, is it? His name is Tuco. The "new dog" that is getting picked on is named "Blondie" and the female that stays out of this mess is named "Evita." I also have a cat named "Fluffy." ALL DOGS leave Fluffy alone. Fluffy has a bit of an attitude.

[lizbud]

Good for Fluffy !!!

But you still have not said how long you have had
each dog, ages of the dogs, neutered or intact,etc.
Glad he checked out physically o.k.

[Mary101]

I have had Tuco for 3 years and Evita for 2 years. I got these two dogs when they were very young pups. I should say that Tuco and Evita were rescued by us. Tuco was terribly neglected, and Evita was phsyically and mentally abused. We have worked very hard with these two dogs, but I believe that the memory of "something very bad" must stick with them. Perhaps that's why Evita gives in so easily and simply sits down, head tucked to the side, instead of meeting a conflict. I have had Blondie for 4 months, and our estimate is that he is about a year old. As far as we know, Blondie was not abused or neglected, just a little unfortunate in the people who thought they wanted him. All of the dogs have had regular vet. visits and all of the dogs have been surgically altered, so to speak. All of the dogs are mixed breeds. I took Tuco in the car last night for a "test ride." He whined and trembled, and refused to get out of the car, even at the DOG PARK :eek: I verbally coaxed and then physically lifted him out -- then he was fine! Fortunatley, he did not pee all over the car, as he had before. HELP!

[sabies]

That sounds so weird! How is he getting into the car? Does he show any fear at all then? The whining and trembling - that is during the ride or just when it's time to get out?

And what about the return ride home - does he get out of the car on his own when you return home?

I would think the picking on the other dog that he does is a dominance thing, trying to establish order. 4 months still seems very new to me. There are lots of threads on issues like that. My personal solution has been to have just one dog ;).

[RachelJ]

As some of us humans have found out, just because the doctor doesn't diagnose a physical problem doesn't mean there isn't one. The fact that both these issues came up at the same time would cause me to believe the whole thing was more than sorting out the status of the pack.

[Dixieland Dancer]

What is the relationship between Evita and Blondie? Do they play together more than they do with Tuco? When things are going ok what does the pack look like? What I mean is who sleeps where and near whom, eats where and with whom, plays with whom?

I believe that Tuco is feeling a little threatened in what he considered a stable pack until Blondie appeared. Now that Blondie is getting a little older and coming into maturity, Tuco is feeling a little fearful that his pack position will be turned upside down. Especially since he probably does remember feelings of neglect.

Sudden urination problems, if not medical, are usually a sign of trying to show territorial dominance. When you or your husband take Tuco for a ride in the car, is he the only dog or do you take them all? Are there other dogs where you are taking him?

What mix of breeds are all the dogs?

Sorry for all the questions but I am trying to understand the situation a little better.

[Mary101]

Evita and Blondie are best buddies. They play, rough-house, patrol the yard, etc. together. Blondie and Evita do take naps together on Evita's blanket, but at night, Evita sleeps with Tuco on Tuco's blanket. Blondie sleeps alone on his own blanket at night. Tuco has his own food bowl and Heaven help the dog that gets too close to that bowl. Blondie and Evita share whatever other bowl is handy, they share treats, chew bones, etc. As for the various mixes in our pack -- Tuco has characteristics of a number of different breeds, most predominant of which seems to be border collie (we have run him on both cattle and sheep he does very well herding). Evita is a mix of blue heeler and GSD (she is a BEAUTIFUL girl!!!). Blondie -- well, anybody's guess here, but he seems to be mostly some kind of terrier. Blondie is all white, except for coffee-colored patches on his left eye, his right ear, and where his stumpy tail begins. He has that sleek, sturdy little terrier build. Blondie needs a lot of obedience work, so he does not ride anywhere with us yet. Evita and Tuco usually go in the car or truck together for short trips, and just one or the other on longer road trips. I should add that Tuco is a little hard of hearing. Now, another question -- if this is dominance-realted, should I mix in it, or stay out? I feel just terrible when Blondie gets knocked around!

[Dixieland Dancer]

Did Evita and Tuco play together very much before Blondie came on the scene?

As I read your last post, I was saying to myself that I thought that is what was going on. If my other guess is correct, then I will say that Evita and Tuco did play together at least some times before Blondie came on the scene.

Border Collies (from what I have seen and heard about them) are very jealous dogs and very high energy and spirited. When they attach and bond they do so with 100% loyalty. They will protect what they believe to be "THEIRS".

I think perhaps someone who knows more about Borders can shed some more light on this aspect.

However, After reading your last post, I more than ever agree that this is dominance related. Unless you fear that one of the dogs will seriously get hurt, then you should let them work it out! If you think there may be blood shed then you can perhaps muzzle the dogs when you can't keep an eye on them.

Give them the space they need to work it out. If a violent confrontation occurs when you are around, intervien but treat both dogs equal. NO WINNER! Perhaps put them both in a time out or in a seperate room. This is where obedience training is very helpful.

If the fights do not become violent with blood shed then let them fight it out. You need to reinforce the winner. In addition you need to make sure you reinforce the winner in front of the loser. He gets petted first, get his food first and even gets to go outside first. You may not like Blondie getting beaten up but if he is the loser you can not sympathize with him.

I am working on this currently with my Dixie and Dusty. It is not easy to not sympathize with the loser. That is our natural reaction. However, you need to go against your natural reaction and reinforce what will feel like it is contradictory behavior from what you are feeling.

Perhaps Carrie has some other suggestions or corrections to my post. I am more of a trainer than a behaviorist.

As for the urination in the car - I would not take him in the car until this is addressed. Tuco probably feels less threatened in the car than anywhere since Blondie never goes for rides. Again, perhaps Carrie has more suggestions.

Keep your chin up. Things will get better.

[Mary101]

Hello, Dixieland Dancer, and thank you for your feedback. You are quiet right in your assessment -- Tuco and Evita did play together sometimes before Blondie joined the pack, but Tuco has never seemed to want to play much with other dogs. After some inittial "getting-to-know-you" sniffs, he usually reserves most of his attention for humans, especially my husband. Tuco is clearly bonded to my husband. Evita -- since I have had to work so hard with her to get her over some behavior problems that stemmed from her abuse, is most closely bonded with me. Blondie is everybody's friend, right now, although he is sticking pretty tight to my 3-year-old son.

Oh, my! this will be hard, but I will take your suggestions and stay out of the dog "arguments," unless it is to reward the winner. I need to remember that the fights sound a whole lot worse than they are. It will be very difficult not to cuddle and coddle "poor Blondie," but as you suggest, human relationships and emotions are different from canine relationships and emotions. At this moment, I just want PEACE IN THE BACKYARD!

As for the peeing in the car, Tuco is limited to the truck bed (and the crate anchored there) until he can get over his need to mark. Now that I think of it, Tuco marked the vehicle just the day after we had Blondie in the same vehicle on a trip to the vet.'s. Could that be why he was whining and carrying on?

Again, thanks for your help! As usual, the wonderful members of PET TALK were there when I needed them!

[lovemymaltese]

I too think that this change of behavior should be checked out by your vet. The vet may have some suggestions that will help the dogs get along as well. Good luck!

[clarebear__45]

oh this sounds like me and my brother ! just kidding !

You know there is always hope !

My cat Ben didn't speak to us for a while when we got Sophie but now they get on very well and he stands up for her in front of big dogs ! He stands guard by the front door as if he is keeping an eye out for her whilst she is in the front garden doing her thing.

Isn't my cat Ben nice to the ladys?

[Mary101]

Hi, Clarebear -- I wish my cat Mr. Fluffy was a gentleman, but he has no use for any human -- except me -- or for any other animals, unless it is a bird (nicely stuffed and roasted to a turn). Since my last post, I have tried Dixieland Dancer's helpful suggestions and THEY ARE WORKING! "Poor Blondie" doesn't get the insides knocked out of him any more. Tuco merely lunges in Blondie's direction, gives a little growl and that's that. Blondie has learned to back off, drop what he has in his mouth, or go belly up. End of conflict. I found that so long as I am consistent, each animal knows what is expected of him/her. Also, I took Tuco for a "test drive" in the car two days ago and he did not mark, or pee, or whatever he was doing. Thank goodness that's improved! Now, if I can just get Fluffy to stop pushing the dogs around . . .:D

[clarebear__45]

Hello Mary,

Thanks for your comments about my cat Ben.
He is a grandad now well what I mean by that is he is old age of 14 years old. He doesn't get along with male cats but doesn't mind sharing his garden with female cats.
I used to have a female King Charles Spaniel called Bonny whom died on New Year Eve 2000 of the age 10 as they only live up to the age of 10.
As I said before Ben doesn't allow cats mainly male cats but he seems to get along fine with female cats and there is this one male cat called Toby whom is very cheeky and hardface who comes into our garden to try and take over our Ben's garden but Ben won't have any of it and chases him but they end up fighting and once he got a cut on his poor little nose which took a while to heal up but its ok now ! anyway My dog was called Bonny and Toby spitted at Bonny and Ben stood up for her at Toby for doing that and he made up run ! lol !
He always seem to care about others esp the lady's and us his family he doesn't put himself first he thinks about his family or either that he is worried about his belly. :D

[Dixieland Dancer]

Mary,
I am glad things are going better. Keep up the good work! Having harmony in the pack is a great feeling. :D