Baby beat up Tikeya... bad

[tikeyas_mom]

Today while in the backyard enjoying a nice summers day.

OScar desided to be a lil jerk and irritate Baby, while she basked in the sunshine.

Baby started to get irritated and went to nip at oscar.
Tikeya ALWAYS has to get inbetween Baby and oscar JUST in CASE baby gets too ruff.. She doesnt know her own strength.

Baby got REALLY mad at Tikeya, and attacked her.
She pinned Tikeya between the fence and herself...
And she repeatedly attacked her face, and back legs..

Poor Tikeya, she was screaming, and whining. By the time My dad actually noticed what was happening Tikeya was REALLY hurt..

:(:(..

Now Baby and Tikeya arnt allowed in the same room together alone... :(:(

here is a pic of Baby incase some ppl dont know my dogs well...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/jynnelle/other%20dogs/Picture025.jpg

pic of Tikeya:http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/jynnelle/untitled.bmp

and oscar:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/jynnelle/other%20dogs/Picture074.jpg

[jesse_3]

Oh no! Poor Tikeya! How bad is she hurt?-Did she go to the vet, or is it treatable at home?

I hope Tikeya heals quickly! Give her big hugs and kisses for me!

Steph and Jes

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by jesse_3
Oh no! Poor Tikeya! How bad is she hurt?-Did she go to the vet, or is it treatable at home?

I hope Tikeya heals quickly! Give her big hugs and kisses for me!

Steph and Jes

it isnt THAT bad, I just freak out over everything when it involves her... :o

she has two ouchies on her back right leg, and her fir was ripped out a lil on the other leg.

baby has a hole in her ear.... :eek:

[CagneyDog]

Poor pups :(

I hope they remain seperated so no more damage is done!

[lv4dogs]

Gosh thats so scary. I'm sorry they have to be seperated now but it is for their own good.

[Dixieland Dancer]

How old is Baby? If I'm guessing right she is somewhere around a year or a little over a year?

From this it doesn't sound like there was any blood (other than Baby's ear). This is actually a good sign. It means the dogs both had control of how hard they were biting and it was more of a fight of dominance to determine who is the alpha between them.

How you handle this will determine the need for future fights between them. You need to honor their determination in who the winner was. In other words even if you "want" to have Tikeya the alpha over Baby, you need to recognize that probably isn't going to happen. You need to let them know you recognize which one is alpha by honoring the alpha. This means the alpha gets everything first between them.

Keeping an eye on them until this is established is a good idea but the more you seperate them on a permanent basis, the more you are causing them to continue to determine who the alpha is between them.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
How old is Baby? If I'm guessing right she is somewhere around a year or a little over a year?

From this it doesn't sound like there was any blood (other than Baby's ear). This is actually a good sign. It means the dogs both had control of how hard they were biting and it was more of a fight of dominance to determine who is the alpha between them.

How you handle this will determine the need for future fights between them. You need to honor their determination in who the winner was. In other words even if you "want" to have Tikeya the alpha over Baby, you need to recognize that probably isn't going to happen. You need to let them know you recognize which one is alpha by honoring the alpha. This means the alpha gets everything first between them.

Keeping an eye on them until this is established is a good idea but the more you seperate them on a permanent basis, the more you are causing them to continue to determine who the alpha is between them.

i am not going to honor baby for bad behaviour she isnt allowed to be agressive period. and she acted agressivly. every since she was a pup we have taught her to be a passive dog, not an agressive one..
i will try your suggestion, i know Tikeya wont like it though.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
This is actually a good sign. It means the dogs both had control of how hard they were biting and it was more of a fight of dominance to determine who is the alpha between them.


Baby REALLY hurt Tikeya. I didnt realise till this morning that Tikeya is in ALOT of pain. and last night i found two more bite holes on Tikeyas ribs and one in between her sholderblades..
i am booking a vet appointment asap.

[Kfamr]

Poor Baby. :(


Candy, that was very good advice. Alpha rolls need to be established, and sometimes it's the owner's responsibility to do so. From day 1 with my dogs i've worked on who's alpha between the 3 of them. Simba gets things first, Nala gets them secondly, and Kiara gets them last.

Both of the girls respect Simba, if he warns them to back off, they do. Kiara respects Nala, if she tells her to back off, she does. If I tell them to do something, they do it, because i'm alpha over all three.
It's something i've worked on between the 3 of my dogs and I continue to work on, which is probably what Jynelle needs to do in her situation. Without it there will be nothing but havok.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Poor Baby. :(


Candy, that was very good advice. Alpha rolls need to be established, and sometimes it's the owner's responsibility to do so. From day 1 with my dogs i've worked on who's alpha between the 3 of them. Simba gets things first, Nala gets them secondly, and Kiara gets them last.



just wait till Kiara wants to be second...

then you will be in my situation.. and it isnt fun at all.

I have worked on the Alpha situation since day one too.. And Baby still found a way to make it hard on the other two dogs.

She is a great dane keep in mind and they are HUGE dogs, and they are very powerful too. they can seriously hurt another dog/animal if they wanted to. And Baby wanted to Hurt Tikeya.

[Kfamr]

Kiara will not want to be second. She does not have the personaility to be above other dogs, and if in the case it does happen, I will sort it out as it's my responsibility as the owner to do so.

You may WANT Tikeya to be alpha, but by the sounds of it Baby should be, no matter who came first.

From what you said..
Baby was being pestered by Oscar, which Baby was telling him to knock it off and Tikeya butted in. Baby had TWO dogs who were challenging her in some way or another. (Whether or not it looked like it.)


Taking in a large breed dog you've got to expect something like this, especially with another female dog, who's already stuck in her ways. Tikeya is used to being alpha, Baby wants to be alpha. As the owner you've got to sort it out. It sounds like Baby has more of a strive to be alpha than Tikeya does, so you've got to make Tikeya understand this. If something isn't done, their behavior is just going to worsen, and treating Tikeya like royalty and Baby like scum isn't going to help the situation.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Taking in a large breed dog you've got to expect something like this, especially with another female dog, who's already stuck in her ways. Tikeya is used to being alpha, Baby wants to be alpha. As the owner you've got to sort it out. It sounds like Baby has more of a strive to be alpha than Tikeya does, so you've got to make Tikeya understand this. If something isn't done, their behavior is just going to worsen, and treating Tikeya like royalty and Baby like scum isn't going to help the situation.

i knew what i was getting into when my mom brought Baby home.. i did the research.

I am not treating Baby like scum. nor am i treating Tikeya like royalty. My parents told me to keep them seperate and thats what i am doing.
Baby isnt my dog, she isnt my resposability. She is my parents.

Tikeya will be pampered till she is better.

[Bambi_Babe]

O poor Puppy!Hope Shes okay...send her my love:eek:

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by Bambi_Babe
O poor Puppy!Hope Shes okay...send her my love:eek:

i will thanks :)

[pnance]

I know your angry at Baby right now and probably terrified she'll do this again, which I can definately understand. But I'm not sure that keeping Baby locked outside and Tikeya in is a good thing either. I would guess that it may make Baby resent Tikeya more and make matters worse. Right now it sounds like the trigger for this fight, was that Oscar wouldn't leave Baby alone and when she tried to discipline him, Tikeya got in the middle by trying to stop Baby. I had a really similar situation with my 2 females Savannah and Nikka. They got into a really bad fight once as well a couple of months after I adopted Hunter (a puppy). Savannah instantly took the role of mom/dominant female, so if Nikka tried to discipline him for being to nippy or spastic Savannah would immediately intervene. We had them all in the back yard once and all of a sudden heard a horrible commotion. When we looked out, Savannah had Nikka pinned against the fence. We ran out and broke it up. My roomate took Nikka into the house to check her and I kept Savannah and Hunter with me to check her. Both girls had some scrapes and couple of bite marks, not enough for a vet trip but enough for us to do some minor first aid. After about a 1/2 hour we put Hunter in his crate and brough Savannah in. The 2 girls did a lot of sniffing, hackles raised, etc., which we let happen, but were prepared to intervene. Eventually they just went on about their normal business. We were a little cautious with them together for a couple of days and kept Hunter from bothering Nikka when home. The first day we had to leave them alone we put one in one room another in another and Hunter was crated. We didn't see any signs of aggretion from them when Hunter wasn't around so the next day we left them out together (Hunter was crated which was normal for him when we left). I'm not a behaviour expert but I have been through something similiar and in my opinion your main concern should be when Oscar is involved. It sounds like your not surprised Tikeya protected Oscar so it's something that occurs often. Just try to keep Oscar from annoying Baby which means Tikeya won't need to intervene. If your really not comfortable leaving them together when your not around I'd either lock one in one room one in the another, or alternate who gets outside time. One day Tikeya, one day Baby. Just my opinion.

[pnance]

Sorry realized I did put this in the last post.....all that said I hope Tikeya feels better soon.....

[ParNone]

I could very easily have been in this situation with Oz and Gull. My head logically wants to treat Oz as alpha, because he's my right hand man and older, but the reality is Gull has a more dominant personality. Since I don't want life to be miserable for Oz, in the things that Gull cares about, Gull gets preferential treatment. Doesn't mean Oz and Murph miss out on anything, they just don't get it first.

As an example, Gull is very, very food oriented, so he gets all food, treats, bones first. When I do that, he's fine with Oz and Murph getting theirs after him and we have no issue.

About a month ago though, I wasn't paying close attention to how important some philly cheese steak dippings was to him and I almost had a full blown dog fight on my hands. I was letting him lick the plate and Oz came over and tried to lick at the same time and Gull turned and went after him. Since Oz backed off immediately there wasn't any bloodshed. It was mainly for show, but boy it sounded bad. All I got out was an "Unt" though and it was already over. I did not go off on Gull though. I didn't even separate them. IMO, punishing or ostracizing Gull was only going to make things worse for Oz in the long run. I wasn't going to reward the behavior though, so I calmly put the plate away and said to both of'em that nobody was getting anymore today and I went off to do something else, ignoring them. Incident over.

Then the next day, I had cheese steak again, on purpose. I put both of them in a "Stay" with at least 10 feet between'em. I then let Gull lick the plate for a few seconds, then went over and let Oz lick for a few, then Murph (I can't count on him to stay, so I think he was safely on the bed). I then made the round again, with no issue. I told everybody what a good dog they had been and that there would definitely be more cheese steak in their future for being so good, and then I put the plate up. No issues at all.

It's not all black and white though. There are things Gull doesn't care about, like sleeping on my bed, which is good, because that's one thing Oz does care about. So Oz and Murph sleep on my bed with me and Gull sleeps on his own bed that's on the floor next to me. I try and read each dog and situation and do what'll result in the most harmonious outcome. Not get so caught up on forcing human dynamics on them.

Anywho, that was a very longwinded way of saying I think Dixieland had some very good advice on the issue.

Par...

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by pnance
If your really not comfortable leaving them together when your not around I'd either lock one in one room one in the another, or alternate who gets outside time. One day Tikeya, one day Baby. Just my opinion.

Tikeya cant be left outdoors alone, without a person there she has severe seperation anxiety when left alone, and she would SCREAm bloody murder till somone let her inside. Bab on the other hand doesnt mind being left outdoors.

[Glacier]

The full effects of a dog fight often take several days to appear. Tikeya will likely be stiff and sore for up to a week. You may find more wounds for a few days too--husky fur hides small wounds very well! If she has puncture wounds, she needs to see a vet. They get infected very easily. The wound is actually much larger underneath the skin and can cause major abcesses. I missed one on Goldie last summer. Had I seen it earlier, I could have saved Goldie a lot of pain and misery and myself 600 dollars in vet bills!

I keep all my females seperated when I'm not there to directly supervise them. Three of them would likely be fine together, the other three would try to rip each other to shreds at the slightest provocation.

I handle fights a little differently. Fighting is not acceptable in my yard--it still happens, but it's not ok. Every dog involved, no matter who started it or why gets punished. If you were involved in the fight, you get tied up or otherwise separated from the pack. Obviously injured dogs get whatever care they need.

I've said this before here, but here it is again. I don't reinforce any of my dogs as the alpha. I am the pack leader. I don't give a hoot which one of them thinks they are pack boss. I don't feed anyone first or in any particular order. Most often Deuce gets fed first as he looses his mind if he has to wait. I don't give any one dog extra treats, attention or preferred sleeping spots ect.

That said, Muskwa is the pack leader. He's a natural born alpha. He's never fought to defend that title. He never had to. Even dogs he has never met before recognize that he is the boss of them. He has no need for aggressive behavior to keep his rank. But he eats with everyone else, whenever I fill his bowl. He sleeps on the same beds they do in the same spots. He gets the same treats whenever I give him one and he has to wait his turn just like the other 21 dogs do!

The ones I have trouble with are the ones who think they might like to be #2. A malamute breeder I know calls them Beta Bullies. They are much more hassle than a true alpha dog. Deuce is a Beta Bully, but he's getting over it. I usually find once they loose a fight and actually get hurt, as Deuce did recently, they get over the idea of moving up the heirarchy. With the males anyway, females never seem to get over it. They hold a grudge for a long time. Kayleigh and Goldie fought over a year ago and they still throw each other a little snarl through the fence every chance they get!

I hope Tikeya heals fast.

[CagneyDog]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
. Bab on the other hand doesnt mind being left outdoors.


I'm sure she minds. Would you want to be locked outside all day:rolleyes:

[KYS]

posted by Glacier: I keep all my females separated when I'm not there to directly supervise them.
Fighting is not acceptable in my yard. >>>>>>>>>>

I agree with Glacier, she has a lot of
experience with her dogs.

I very wise woman who ran a Akita rescue once told me.
She never lets her dogs fight it out. Once an Akita
has a "full" blown fight their is a very good chance the dogs
will never forget nor forgive each-other.

Not sure if you guys remember, but Rocky and Sheba had
a couple of skirmishes a few years back.

Sending Tikeya get well wishes for her ouchies.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by CagneyDog
I'm sure she minds. Would you want to be locked outside all day:rolleyes:

umm how the heck do you know what my dog likes or dislikes? you dont. so dont judge me.. thanks :).

ok so half of you think i should let them fight it out, the other half thinks i shouldnt.. wow.. im with glacier on this one... I will not let them act this way, it is innapropriate.

Tikeya holds grudges very well.. once a female trys to fight her, she will want to continue to fight till hell freez's over..

I think it is best to keep them seperate for a while. inless supervised..

[CagneyDog]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
umm how the heck do you know what my dog likes or dislikes? you dont.



I highly doubt your dog likes to be neglected all day long. Is she out there during the night to?

[wolfsoul]

Cagneydog, Baby is never left outside alone for more than a few minutes. She is an indoor dog. Jynnelle only replied to pnance saying that Tikeya can't be outside alone but Baby can.

I don't see this as a big "alpha fight." I don't see a reason to make a huge "training regime" because this happens once in a blue moon and I never see it as a dominance battle on Baby's part. Baby is such a submissive puppy. I don't see her as aggressive, but very defensive. Maybe seperating them when nobody home is fine, but I don't see the need to delve too deep into things.

I totally agree with Glacier. I never thought of it that way -- I always like to think about who is "top dog" and whatnot, but it is probably best to remember that YOU, the owner, are top-dog. That's quite an interesting way of thinking about it.

I hope both Baby and Tikeya feel better! Give them kisses for me...I need to see them both soon. We should go to the dog beach in the next couple weeks.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by CagneyDog
I highly doubt your dog likes to be neglected all day long. Is she out there during the night to?
No she isnt out there all day and night... :rolleyes:
just for four hours whil i am at school, then she comes in when i get home and she sleep with my parents at night.. I dont neglect my pets.

[CagneyDog]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
No she isnt out there all day and night... :rolleyes:
just for four hours whil i am at school, then she comes in when i get home and she sleep with my parents at night.. I dont neglect my pets.

First wolfsoul said she is never left outside alone for more than a few minutes and now you say something completely different. Which one is it?:rolleyes:

[wolfsoul]

I haven't even been to Jynnelle's house since she started school a few weeks ago. Before she was in school Baby was inside all the time.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by CagneyDog
First wolfsoul said she is never left outside alone for more than a few minutes and now you say something completely different. Which one is it?:rolleyes:

omg.. wow.. your very stuborn arnt you?
:rolleyes:

When NOONE is home BABY is outside, and Tikeya & oscar are inside. As soon as somone is home to watch them then they all come inside.

All three are inside dogs..
BUT if noone is home to supervise them all in the house, Baby goes outdoors and Tikeya and oscar stay inside..

I am tired of repeating my self. so this is the last time I am going to type this.. Get it through your head ok :). thanks

[CagneyDog]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I am tired of repeating my self. so this is the last time I am going to type this.. Get it through your head ok :). thanks


Yes I am stubborn :)

You only said it once, and then your friend came a long and contradicted you so I was wonder which one of was speaking the truth!

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by CagneyDog
Yes I am stubborn :)

You only said it once, and then your friend came a long and contradicted you so I was wonder which one of was speaking the truth!

i never once typed that I leave Baby outside ALL day and Night. did I?? no.. you just assumed thats what I ment.

[CagneyDog]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
i never once typed that I leave Baby outside ALL day and Night. did I?? no.. you just assumed thats what I ment.


No. That's not what I'm talking about. You said she was outside for a couple hours a day. Never once did I accuse you of leaving her outside for 24 hours, I remember asking you if she was outside all night, but I never accused you.

[tikeyas_mom]

umm....

ok why continue asking then?

[CagneyDog]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
umm....

ok why continue asking then?

I only asked once. In my previous reply I didn't ask u anythign.:rolleyes: