Bush speech

[beeniesmom]

I am probably very ignorant for asking...
You know, I never was happy about him sending our men... oops I mean kids (they aren't even old enough to drink) to get killed or wounded in Iraq for a "necessary war at the wrong time".
Why is it that now Bush is justifying the war with what happened on 9/11? I thought it was because of the "immaginary" nuke warheads.
Does he not have a better excuse? Can't he just say that he screwed up and that we have to hold out until things settle down.
It seems that everyone around me defends him or.... when they have a lack of nice words.... don't say anything.
Am I the only one that thinks he is a total #&^%-up?

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by beeniesmom
Am I the only one that thinks he is a total #&^%-up?

No.

[elizabethann]

Personally, I think he's a messed up fool! I'm still waiting for proof of the "weapons of mass destruction". I think the only weapon of mass destruction is the tiny brain in Bush's head.

Bring our men & women home!!! Send Jenna & Barb to Iraq!

Just my .02 cents.

[beeniesmom]

I can't immagine him sending his own 2 daughters... hehehe:D

[catlover4ever]

No, I feel the same way. If I remember correctly we went to hunt for bin Laden..........where the H@#$ is HE!!!!! Still out there....probally among us in the United States :mad:

[King Spartacus]

Eh... did anyone see "Fahrenheit 9/11"? I did... And even if I don't care much for the guy that made the film... it DOES actually consist of facts... A must see for anyone who dare to live life with their eyes open...

Sylvie, KS' mom

[beeniesmom]

I didn't see it. I wanted to but my husband refused to go. I will have to purchase the dvd and hide it. ;)

[King Spartacus]

You should... if you dare... there are some really shocking facts in it! I thought the situation was bad... but never that bad... It actually went on national telly here - and completely blew my mind away.

I actually don't dare to say to much... even if we're in the DogHouse, as I once mentioned this film on another forum... and got told off by a moderator...

See and judge for yourselves! And good luck in hiding the film!!!

[lizbud]

Originally posted by beeniesmom

Am I the only one that thinks he is a total #&^%-up?


No, you are not alone.:)

[beeniesmom]

Originally posted by King Spartacus
I actually don't dare to say to much... even if we're in the DogHouse, as I once mentioned this film on another forum... and got told off by a moderator...

:eek:

[Jadapit]

Originally posted by King Spartacus
You should... if you dare... there are some really shocking facts in it! I thought the situation was bad... but never that bad... It actually went on national telly here - and completely blew my mind away.

I actually don't dare to say to much... even if we're in the DogHouse, as I once mentioned this film on another forum... and got told off by a moderator...

See and judge for yourselves! And good luck in hiding the film!!!


That movie really does OPEN up your eyes on a lot of stuff. I was shocked to say the least. Remember the part where Michael Moore went around with his clip board asking congressmen to have their sons or daughters sign up for the military? They ran to their cars as fast as they could. Amazing huh? :rolleyes:

[King Spartacus]

I've seen slower moving cars on a racetrack than those congressmen!!! What really got to me was how Bush reacted when he was told of the planes crashing into the tower... and then the second plane...

Gosh...

Sylvie, still in shock, KS' mom

[davidpizzica]

Beaniesmum, You are definitely NOT alone in thinking that Bush is a total screw-up! All he is doing is making sure that Americans, and your right they are boys, get killed every day. Please Bush, get us OUT of Iraq!

[Jadapit]

Originally posted by King Spartacus
I've seen slower moving cars on a racetrack than those congressmen!!! What really got to me was how Bush reacted when he was told of the planes crashing into the tower... and then the second plane...

Gosh...

Sylvie, still in shock, KS' mom


I hear you there! That was totally shocking. I was also quite shocked how Dick Clark acted and ran his business. Honestly, the whole movie enlighted me a lot about things. Have you see his other movie Bowling for Columbine?

[dukedogsmom]

Originally posted by beeniesmom
Am I the only one that thinks he is a total #&^%-up?
No! I, too, wonder where Bin Laden is now. Seems everyone has forgotten about him. To me, he was more important catching than Sadam.

[moosmom]

Am I the only one that thinks he is a total #&^%-up?

Nope!

What I don't understand is this...

Why the hell should we be helping out a country that doesn't WANT to be helped??? These people are laughing at us!

We've trained them to defend themselves, so why don't we just get the heck out of there and let them do what we trained them to do, defend their country or die trying. Why should OUR guys/gals lose their lives over a country who doesn't want us there to begin with??

I see a "Vietnam War" deja vu all over again. :(

[davidpizzica]

This is a war that was pushed on us by Bush. The U.N. didn't want us to go to Iraq, but Bush went ahead anyway, the Iraqis don't want us there and here he is trying to justify it. Bush's Vietnam!

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by moosmom
Nope!

What I don't understand is this...

Why the hell should we be helping out a country that doesn't WANT to be helped??? These people are laughing at us!

We've trained them to defend themselves, so why don't we just get the heck out of there and let them do what we trained them to do, defend their country or die trying. Why should OUR guys/gals lose their lives over a country who doesn't want us there to begin with??

I see a "Vietnam War" deja vu all over again. :( Donna, it's not just the Iraqis laughing at us, but the res of he world is starting to laugh at us too!!

[Jadapit]

Did you all see where Rumsfield said we might be there for 12 years:confused: Can you imagine!?! Rumsfield is another idiot.
IMHO anyway.......

[beeniesmom]

Originally posted by moosmom
I see a "Vietnam War" deja vu all over again. :(

We need to remember that most of those fighting in this war didn't have a choice. They were sent.

Even if I disagree with the whole agenda, I would never look down on one of our soldiers, or for that matter on any soldier of the other coalition countries involved. I don't think of this as another Vietnam. It shouldn't be.

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by Jadapit
Did you all see where Rumsfield said we might be there for 12 years:confused: Can you imagine!?! Rumsfield is another idiot.
IMHO anyway....... TWELVE YEARS??? We've been there WAY too long already!!

[elizabethann]

I don't think anyone would treat our solidiers (now or in the future) as bad as we treated the Vietnam Veterans. We learned our lesson from that (at least I think so). Whatever we feel about the war, it is not to be blamed on the soldiers. They're doing their jobs.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The comparison to Viet Nam is not about how the soldiers are treated on return (by the way...it is now an all volunteer army vs. the draft then in effect) but to an unwinnable quagmire.

[elizabethann]

by the way...it is now an all volunteer army vs. the draft then in effect

For now. If they want 12 more years of this, there may be a draft. And I for one, don't want to see my Nephews forced to support Bush's war.

[moosmom]

The comparison to Viet Nam is not about how the soldiers are treated on return (by the way...it is now an all volunteer army vs. the draft then in effect) but to an unwinnable quagmire.

Thank you, Sarah for seeing my point. My intention was never to "look down on one of our soldiers, or for that matter on any soldier of the other coalition countries involved."

I simply meant that it was another senseless war with thousands (millions in Vietnam) of young men and women being killed.

[CathyBogart]

No, you're not the only one who finds him to be a total %*()^up.

[RICHARD]

Why does everyone always insist on name calling?

Micheal Moore's tome to 9/11 was another money making
effort to pad his pocket.


Where is the woman who cried for Micheal's camera?

He made the money and she made it onto celluloid and his DVD.

I wonder if she got a screen actor's guild card..

And Sir Moore used the flag draped coffins as a nice slap in the face of the soldiers under the fabric.

And don't forget the French best seller that 'proved' that the US government caused 9/11?

We are all used to the 2 hour movie that neatly ties up all the characters and the plot line when the credits roll...

Question authority....

And if they don't give you an answer that you want,
Call names and claim a conspiracy.


----------------------------------------------------

In for a penny, in for a pound.......

Wait until we get a visit from Mr Ebola, Mr Dirty Bomb and my personal favorite....Mr Poisoned Food.


I won't be crying and yelling for the government to do something then...

I'll wonder why Mr Bill didnt hunt down Osama after the first WTC bombing......

We, as a nation, took no heed after that bombing.....instead we stuck our heads in the sand and left our arses exposed.....

We closed the barn door after the cows got out....and in our own stupidity we locked the jackals up, who we knew were in the barn, brainstrom for a while longer.


3000 citizens
343 cops and fire men
4 airplanes
two towers and the heart of a nation.

Let's just pack up our shiat, bring the boys back home, and let the next set of A-holes stop by and pay a nuclear power plant a visit.....

We are tough, we can take it!

[RICHARD]

and you darn tootin I am PISSED.

Today the other guy in the office starts up with his Bush is an ass,
Bush is an Eff Up.......

First, get another line going. Or get it tattooed on your member.

That way you can remember it as you get older and remove the need to read a newspaper or magazine.

I kinda chuckled and reminded him about Monica.......Some ancient history, But if Monica knew the words and passed on humming a few bars, I wouldn't have that comedy line to use.

He said that it was his business, His wife he had to explain it to, and his home, Where it happened..


WHOA, I said that was my house too. I helped pay for it..

He got mad......started to raise his voice to talk over me.....He got on the phone, pushed the speaker phone button and started to punch....he messed up the call and yells out, "You Son of a B-tch"


He hangs up the phones and says in a calm voice....."I didn't call you a SOB....."

I told him not to worry about it..

What do I care??? He showed what he is made of.

I'm gonna smack some punk that

1) only knows EFF bush, A hole Bush, Jerk Bush?
2) refuses to let me have a minute to make a comment?
3) has the nerve to yell out 'You SOB' and let that one get by me?--------------------------------------


I expect more from my America brothers and sisters...and that's where I get into trouble.

I ain't no Bush fan, or an apologist for him...I just think that the guy driving the bus deserves a little respect....


After all, It's our arses he's driving and if we really pissed him off...

-------------------------------


And by the way,

How many of us made use of the GWB tax cut????

No one in my family did.........

And how many of you were mortified when the term "Hillybilly armor" made the news???

How many bullets and beans could the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq bought with those tax cuts??

Nope, George had to take care of the people at home....


------------------------------------------------------------

There, you all can hate me properly.....

[K9soul]

Originally posted by RICHARD
There, you all can hate me properly.....

I personally disagree strongly with most of what Bush says and does, but I do not hate or disrespect anyone for having a differing opinion. I do not even "hate" Bush, he just frightens me, especially with the conservative majority in the other branches that allow him more power than I am comfortable with.

[Lady's Human]

Farenheight 9-11has been debunked so thoroughly that it's amazing that people even mention it as a factual movie. It has as much relation to fact as Mein Kampf or "The Battleship Potemkin".

[King Spartacus]

Originally posted by Lady's Human
Farenheight 9-11has been debunked so thoroughly that it's amazing that people even mention it as a factual movie. It has as much relation to fact as Mein Kampf or "The Battleship Potemkin".
I take it you never seen it then... never seen Bush sit like a puppet on a string when he got told the first plane had crashed... and then looking a tad bewildered when he got told the second plane crashes ("Am I supposed to do someting?" it looked like he was thinking.)

And to Richards comment: Of course he made money on the film! As I've said, I don't even like the guy... but that doesn't matter... so he goes over the top, but he maybe he has to, to have people wake up.

As for the war... what a waste... and Blair was no better than Bush in this matter... I said from day one when America wanted to go to war, that Bush needed a "bad man" as he wasn't capable of getting Osama Bin Laden... but he needed to catch somebody! Iraq seemed like an easy target... but it wasn't... instead all those people died... soldiers and civilians... for what? It certainly wasn't to stop weapons of mass destructions!

Sylvie, KS' mom

[elizabethann]

Isn't it wonderful that we live in countries where we can speak our mind?

I'm thankful that I do.

:)

[Karen]

Originally posted by King Spartacus
I take it you never seen it then... never seen Bush sit like a puppet on a string when he got told the first plane had crashed... and then looking a tad bewildered when he got told the second plane crashes ("Am I supposed to do someting?" it looked like he was thinking.)


Bad assumption to make. I saw it, then did some research, and was completely disappointed both in Michael Moore and the movie. It is not even an attempt at telling the turth, it is an Opinion piece, heavily edited and twisted to meet Mr. Moore's personal goals. I no longer respect him as a filmmaker, frankly. Anyone can be made to look bad, or unintelligent if you edit footage correctly.

That is not to say I think my President (as an American, he is my President, whether or not I voted for him or like him or not) is a genious or a dummy.

While I may not argue politics on Pet Talk, I am an American and respect the right for people to voice their opinions, as long as it is done politely.

[King Spartacus]

Originally posted by Karen
Bad assumption to make.
I know you're the owner of the forum... but are you also Lady's Human? (As I was making the quote from Lady's Human)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by King Spartacus
I take it you never seen it then... never seen Bush sit like a puppet on a string when he got told the first plane had crashed...

And to Richards comment: Of course he made money on the film! As I've said, I don't even like the guy... but that doesn't matter... so he goes over the top, but he maybe he has to, to have people wake up.

As for the war... what a waste... and Blair was no better than Bush in this matter... I said from day one when America wanted to go to war, that Bush needed a "bad man" as he wasn't capable of getting Osama Bin Laden... but he needed to catch somebody! Iraq seemed like an easy target... but it wasn't... instead all those people died... soldiers and civilians... for what? It certainly wasn't to stop weapons of mass destructions!

Sylvie, KS' mom

When the FIRST plane went into the WTC NO ONE KNEW IT WAS A TERRORIST ATTACK, I find it hard to believe that anyone, with he exception of 19 morons, knew that it was an attack against the US.

I am sure all the astute political minds in our country knew that it was a terrorist attack as soon as they heard the news. I am disappointed that GWB didn't duck into the coat closet, put on his
super president outfit and stop the other three planes from crashing.

The next time you hear of some unfortunate tragedy try and get all the facts, your reactions and what you are going to do settled in the first few minutes.

Then you can be president.

------------------------------------------

Try to find out if Moore donated any money from his comedy to any charity supporting the troops.

I should say not......to put together a film and to use their deaths as a vehicle to win an Oscar, Palm d Or or any other silly film award is probably the sickest bunch of crap I have ever seen.

He has the right to put out any product he wants..
It's up to us to accept that as truth, or hog spit.

We support the troops, but when MM uses flag draped coffins as a punchline to a war that no one wants, We all jump on the bandwagon and don't even acknowledge their sacrifices and duty to the country.

Pretty shameful.

----------------------------------------

Why Iraq?


Kuwait, Genocide (poisoning people with the chemical we sold them...uinder CLINTON'S watch.) torture, women's rights, human rights......

Did I miss something???



Every president has had the power to push a button and vaporize the planet....

Every moron has had the power to come to AMerica and
vaporize a few hundred people, a city block or a town.

Who am I afraid of???

The morons.....I live and work in a great place...I kinda doubt GWB is gonna blow up EL LAY....


Thank god I am not paranoid.

;) :p :cool:

[beeniesmom]

K9soul

I personally disagree strongly with most of what Bush says and does, but I do not hate or disrespect anyone for having a differing opinion. I do not even "hate" Bush, he just frightens me, especially with the conservative majority in the other branches that allow him more power than I am comfortable with.

elizabethann


Isn't it wonderful that we live in countries where we can speak our mind?

Well said.
Lets close it here.
I don't want others to be upset about my opinions.
I could go on forever as to why I made my comments in the first post but that would bore you all and probably initiate more controversy.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Debunk .... sounds like a good definition of what has happened to GWB's justification for attacking Iraq!

[lizbud]

The latest Bush speech = same old lines, over & over.

A brief excerpt from someone else's comments that I agree with,

" the administration has learned exactly nothing from the past three years of insurgency in Iraq. The 1,700-dead, $1 billion-a-week mistake will continue to be run in exactly the same way we have already proved doesn't work. We'll keep trying to put out a growing insurgency with too small an army as the country drifts ever-closer to civil war. It's like Ben Franklin's definition of insanity -- doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

As one who has long argued that George W. Bush is not stupid, I must admit that not learning from your mistakes is a prime signal of stupidity. But of course, in order to learn from your mistakes, you have to recognize you made them. The president assured us just last week he is "heartened" by what is happening in Iraq and, "I am pleased with the progress." The vice president says there is "major progress" and the insurgency is in its "last throes." These folks are in such deep denial.

[Lady's Human]

KS.......No, Karen is not me, however, she is my sister.

One: Again, Bad assumption. We watched the "movie" on duty one fine evening after someone pirated the DVD. I know of very few people in the US army who would line Mr Moore's pockets to assist his propoganda efforts.

Two: Calling the war a waste. I would venture to guess that the majority of Iraqis asked away from tv cameras, news media, and soldier's guns on either side would not call it a waste. However, getting an honest opinion out of them is difficult as they have been living in a country where for the past 30+ years giving your honest opinion can get you shot. I would ask you to call the parents of SPC Segun Akintade, and ask them if they thought the war was a waste. I would ask you to call the parents of many of the 1700 soldiers who have been killed, and tell them it's a waste and see what kind of reaction you'd get.

We are in the process of liberating 2 countries, AND YOU CALL IT A WASTE??????????

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[lady_zana]

Originally posted by elizabethann
Isn't it wonderful that we live in countries where we can speak our mind?

I'm thankful that I do.

:)

This is a wonderful statement we should all be taking to heart. I'm a student of history and will have my degree in history soon. (I graduated in May with an English degree.) We live in America (or other free-world countries) and we can say 'I hate America' without being thrown in prison. (I'm not saying I hate America; I just wanted an example.) There are people all over the world who can't do that. To say 'I hate my country' would be treason in many places.

However, one thing we as Americans need to consider is spin. Did Michael Moore's movie have a spin? Yes, of course it did. When Bush delievers a press conference is he giving it a spin? Again, yes he is.

Neither of these two, or any other source, are giving you the whole picture. The news always shows a spin that puts the presenter in the best light or at least that is what they are attempting to do. Researching the facts is difficult and even more difficult if you don't know which way the source leans.

One thing we aren't seeing in Iraq are the coffins or the rape rooms and this is due largely in part to Vietnam. The press had more freedom and many turned against the war. Seeing what happened there, the government refused to let much of the press report on what is happening in Iraq.

I am very much against this war; I am very much against war in general. The more I study history, the less I can see we have entered any war for the correct reasons. However, this is simply my opinion and thankfully, we are all entitled to our own.

We have broken the Geneva Convintion pact; we have restricted our own freedoms with the Patriot Act. To me, the best way we can support our troops is to bring them home and out of harm's way.

[Lady's Human]

1) Rape rooms? please enlighten me.

2) "spin" can hardly be used to describe what Michael Moore has done with Farenheight 9-11. He used partial statements to completely change the meaning of what various people were saying.

3) we HAVE NOT violated the Geneva Convention, as the Geneva Convention applies ONLY to uniformed combatants on the battlefield, and does not apply to whatever you chose to call the non-uniformed people who are shooting at us over there.

[King Spartacus]

Originally posted by Lady's Human

3) we HAVE NOT violated the Geneva Convention, as the Geneva Convention applies ONLY to uniformed combatants on the battlefield, and does not apply to whatever you chose to call the non-uniformed people who are shooting at us over there.
Only reason they're shooting is because their country was invaded...

[Lady's Human]

Most of the insurgency in Iraq is coming from the outside and being funded by outside interests. Most of the infantry troops I know that are or have been in Iraq have told me that they were involved in very few confrontations with Iraqis, the insurgents are mostly of syrian/lebanese/Iranian origin.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Lady's Human
Most of the insurgency in Iraq is coming from the outside and being funded by outside interests. Most of the infantry troops I know that are or have been in Iraq have told me that they were involved in very few confrontations with Iraqis, the insurgents are mostly of syrian/lebanese/Iranian origin.


Like some 19 yr old kid from Iowa would know the difference.
Right.:rolleyes:

[Lady's Human]

Again, Bad assumption. The troops I am most familiar with are:

the Co Cdr, an assistant US DA in NYC when not deployed

the Platoon sergeants, who are 1) a NYC police interrogator, 2) a NYC police SWAT leader, and 3) a NY Arson investigator.

The troops that make up the unit in question are mostly NYPD, NYFD, and NY EMS, hardly "19 y/o kids from Iowa".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050630/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_suicide_missions_1

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
Like some 19 yr old kid from Iowa would know the difference.
Right.:rolleyes:


There is more spin in that sentence that the crankshaft of the bike Armstrong will ride on saturday.

-------------------------------
Liz,

You support the troops yet you make a disparaging remark about the common sense of a 19 year old.

If I was 19, from Iowa and serving the country I'd have an issue with that statement.....

I like to think I have street sense, but I'd be damned if I'd go against some kid fresh outta boot.
----------------------------------
I recently read about a 50 something year old man who was going back to Iraq to train the FNGs.......

NG stands for "new guy" use you imagination for the EFF.....

Why? Because he wanted to make sure that there was someone there to show them "the way".

---------------------------------------

Lady z....

And what about the soldiers that are rebuilding the schools and the infrastructure of the country,

We surely can't waste time with that topic, can we.?

I posted a thread about soldiers that we given school supplies to pass out for the kids....The gist of the story was a German gent who remembered the American soldiers who came thru town after the war.....IF I remember correctly he was given a bar of chocolate..

He came to the US, became a citizen and donated quite a few dollars to that charity......some 50 years after being treated with the kindness of one anonymous soldier.


-----------------------------------

We have freedom of speech here in this country...and we use to malign, disrespect and provoke each other into two different camps.

And while we are arguing about the tents, stoves and sleeping bags, we ignore the bears waiting for us to go back to sleep again.

Choose your words wisely, they are harder to fit back into your mouth once they are out.....

Of course you can always say...."I was misqouted......"



;)

[Lady's Human]

I've posted this URL in similar threads before, Here we go again......


http://www.goodnewsiraq.com

The news CNN fox, et al would prefer you didn't know.

[RICHARD]

talk about spin!!!

Apologies to you LH...It was your thread....

I responded to it......But I never forgot...


Sorry.:o :rolleyes: :eek:

[lady_zana]

Originally posted by RICHARD

Choose your words wisely, they are harder to fit back into your mouth once they are out.....

Of course you can always say...."I was misqouted......"



I always stand by way I say. If I'm proved wrong, I'll admit it. However, like I said, everything I said was my opinion just as you are allowed your opinion.

As for rape rooms, they aren't exactly 'rooms' in every case. They are incidents like the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. It happens in every war, even if it is not reported on the news.

I had a cousin in Iraq; I'm not ignorant of what is going on. I sat in class next to two boys that I never saw again. I hope they were not killed but I will probably never know for sure. Do I support this war? No and I never will.

Despite what you say, Michael Moore's film is spin. Everything is spin; you have to chose what you want to believe and find the truth in what you can.

This message board is getting heated. I don't wish to start a fight with anyone. I don't believe I will be returning to this board because I don't want to fight. I have anxiety disorder and heated debates make me nervous.

Good luck to you all and be thankful we can all argue without fear of repercussions.

[K9soul]

Originally posted by lady_zana
This message board is getting heated. I don't wish to start a fight with anyone. I don't believe I will be returning to this board because I don't want to fight. I have anxiety disorder and heated debates make me nervous.

Lady_zana, I just wanted you to know you aren't alone in that. I suffer anxiety as well and it's one reason I read but don't comment much in this part of the board (Dog House). I'd be an anxious wreck, unable to sleep or concentrate on anything if I were to get into a big argument. I just wanted you to know I understand where you are coming from completely, and I sincerely hope you won't leave the board.

And, as a general statement: My feeling is everyone has different beliefs and perceptions and I think we should always try to respect that and not blatantly say "you are wrong" but more along the lines of "that's not how I see it" or simply "I disagree." I appreciate the insights on both sides in this thread but I feel uneasy when it starts seeming on a more personal level.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lady_zana

As for rape rooms, they aren't exactly 'rooms' in every case. They are incidents like the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. It happens in every war, even if it is not reported on the news.

------------------------------------------
This message board is getting heated. I don't wish to start a fight with anyone. I don't believe I will be returning to this board because I don't want to fight. I have anxiety disorder and heated debates make me nervous.

Good luck to you all and be thankful we can all argue without fear of repercussions.

Yes and it's usually the bad guys that are pulling that kind of crap.

Look around for the video that showed saddam's punks pushing people off of roofs. with their hands tied behind their backs....

MY favorite?

Placing men's hands across two bricks and having someone break the arm with a blow across the forearm....

And if you really are squeamish there was the huge pair of shears used to cut the tongue out of a man's head.

But I digress.........

I don't take things personally......I enjoy a good discussion..

Some people, with who I have had some of the most energetic conversations here in the Dog House, are able to put aside the 'HEAT' when we post in other sections of PT....

And I do admire them for that....for that shows they respect my POV and I respect theirs even more.

-------

MY whole point is that when you make an accusation you have to have good evidence to back it up.

Yes, some soldiers have screwed up and treated prisoners badly..

But where is the indignation when contractors, humanitarians and innocent people, there to help the Iraqis, are beheaded on tape...and then the tape is show all across the planet?

They get a pass and we suffer more because we are supposed to be the good guys????

Nope, it's all spin....and then you get the wash out and hang it up for everyone to see.

[Lady's Human]

ANYONE in the US military raping or otherwise abusing people is going to get what's coming to them when the light shines on their actions. It's a simple rule of thumb.........criminals are basically stupid, if they were smart they probably wouldn't be criminals in the first place (Over simplification, I know, but it's a nice conversation piece).

Look at Abu Ghirab......If they were smart they wouldn't have been taking pics of what they were doing. Abu Ghirab was an anomaly, and while it was inexcusable (and the people responsible have been punished) it in no way rose to the level of killing innocent civilians.

As far as the discussion getting heated, If you are going to accuse US Soldiers, sailors and airmen of violating basic rules of conduct with blanket accusations like "it happens in every war" and other trite lines, you're damned right it's going to get heated, and it will get heated in a hurry.

[Edwina's Secretary]

"US and Iraqi military officers are backing away from previous claims that suicide operations are the exclusive preserve of foreign jihadis." Quote from Time magazine this week.

I would be shocked....absolutely shocked...to think anyone in the military had "misspoken" about the reality of Iraqi...

Why was a hardliner elected in Iran? They are afraid that a US invasion will be unending....like the one in Iraq. If we are so loved by the Iraqis....why did Rumsfeld say it might take 12 years to get out???? Must be going to build alot of schools....

And are you deeply offended that the vice-president of this countries called those of us who disagree...unpatriotic? cowards? appeasers?

Or are you only offended by name calling when it is someone with whom you disagree?






I support our soldiers. Bring them all home now!

[Lady's Human]

Remember, it took a lot more than a year or two to stabilize Germany after WW2. GI's were dying in incidents and encounters with partisans on a fairly steady basis, but the media had little to no access to what was ocurring in the country as the military censored all news reports. This was happening in a country that had NO outside funding coming in for the partisans, and the borders were secure.

The Iranians elected a hardliner mainly for one reason......all candidates who were not hardliners who stood a chance had their candidacy ended by the current government. Iran DOES NOT have open elections, they have approved candidates.

I think name calling in the political arena by ANYONE is juvenile and assinine. If you can't talk about something without resorting to it, maybe you need to go update your vocabulary. That having been said, however, there are representatives in congress who truly deserve that title. The rep who called for ending funding for the military until the military pulls out of Iraq deserves to have HIS funding cut off.

Name calling, however irritating it may be, is not offensive to me. However, the unproven and unbacked allegations of US Soldiers raping Iraqis are offensive.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sorry...but the Germany/Iraq analogy doesn't work. We defeated Germany.... we claim to have liberated Iraq.

Big difference.....

[Lady's Human]

Actually, if you read the literature of the time, we were involved in liberating the German populace then as well.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Actually.... I have read the literature of the time....

Actually....I have a whole library about the time which I have read...

Actually....Germany declared war on the United States. Germany...and it allies (Japan and Italy) were the aggressors in that war.

Actually....we liberated France, we liberated Belgium, we liberated Holland.

Actually....Iraq did not declare war on the US (and please...not the tired old GWB trick of blaming 9/11 on Iraq....)

Actually.... your analogy doesn't hold.

[lizbud]

Guess what? I've actually read the literature of that time myself.
I really like reading history. I enjoy it actually.:D

[Lady's Human]

No, Iraq did not declare war on the United States. The war could have easily been avoided, however, if Saddam Hussein had just allowed the UN weapons inspections team the unfettered access that they were supposed to have under the cease fire agreement after desert storm.

Saddam Hussein was, however, acting against the US and Britain by continuously firing at aircraft enforcing the no fly zone (also a part of the Gulf War Cease fire)

He was also acting aginst US interests by financing various terrorist groups, and was very open about his actions in that arena.


Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that is the US had invaded Nazi Germany prior to Pearl harbor you would have been out in the streets protesting FDR's unjust war? After all, Herr schickelgruber had taken no overt action against the US.

[Lady's Human]

BTW, the German day marking the surrender at the end of WW2 is officially called "liberation day"

[Edwina's Secretary]

.....btw...I wasn't born yet..... my parents were too busy defeating the axis....

[Lady's Human]

As were most of the people between the ages of 17 and 40. Your point would be?

[RICHARD]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
[B]"US and Iraqi military officers are backing away from previous claims that suicide operations are the exclusive preserve of foreign jihadis." Quote from Time magazine this week.

I would be shocked....absolutely shocked...to think anyone in the military had "misspoken" about the reality of Iraqi...

Why was a hardliner elected in Iran? They are afraid that a US invasion will be unending....like the one in Iraq. QUOTE]

Quoting TIME could be dangerous....Newsweek flushed the Koran.....


A hardliner was elelcted in Iran because an election there counts about as much as an election in IRAQ.....Where is Jimmy Carter and the vote counters...on vacation?


Just to let you know.....I am planning to change the light fixture on the porch of my mom's house.......I may be shocked myself...



Some moron declared was on the US.....I THINK it was a fatwah.....an I think the moron's initials are OBL..


----------------------------------------------------

Again to get a fair and balanced (I love that phrase) view I listened to a stooge that wsa filling in on that Air America station....

He made THIS observation....

A few years ago Iraq was a peaceful country.....

------------------------------------------------------

ANd as I drove to work yesterday I looked at the gas prices ans saw 2.69 for premium.....

Where is all that Iraqi oil that I was promised????

-----------------------------------------------------

ES,
What is this "WE liberated" stuff?
It was that kooky president and the soldiers HE sent over to help...

But wait a second........

Didn't we blame FDR for knowing all about Pearl Harbor and not doing anything to prevent it? That way the heat would be taken off of him and concentrated on the war....

Holy Conspiracy Batman! Are we repeating history???

P.S.

Yep my mom and my grandparents worked hard to defeated the Axis and the shovels and the rakes.....


She sat down and was patient, planted victory gardens, recycled rubber, steel, copper, used ration cards........Did I mention Granddaddy was a block warden for the Civil Defense.....

The may have not like the war, but they were supportive, patient, and did what they had to do to make a bad situation bearable.

------------------------------------------

If I fly my flag this weekend does that make me part of the Evil George Bush Empire......After all, where ever those Stars and Stripes show up there is trouble..........

We should kept what land we got back them in WWII......we'd have 52 states by now.....




:eek: :eek: :cool: ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sorry RICHARD.... your over-wrought frothing at the mouth ranting is too much for me to understand.

Once again....OBL is not an Iraqi....

And the Enola Gay did not drop the a-bomb to liberate Japan (and before either of you starts with the name calling again....I do believe Truman made the right decision...)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Sorry RICHARD.... your over-wrought frothing at the mouth ranting is too much for me to understand.

Once again....OBL is not an Iraqi....

And the Enola Gay did not drop the a-bomb to liberate Japan (and before either of you starts with the name calling again....I do believe Truman made the right decision...)

Name calling?

Who is the unfortunate victim of my name calling NOW?

Acually a guy named Tibbets had the call on dropping the bomb. It was his mission, his plane.

Where did I say that OBL was an Iraqi?????

He's from YEMEN......the Saudis gave him SA citizenship......



And I'm not foaming at the mouth.........It's the backwash from my
Diet Coke.....


I swear, If I hadn't met you in person I would have thought an evil Democrat was hacking into your PT account.


;)


You know I still like you.:eek:

[Lady's Human]

I'm with Richard, trying to figure out two things.....


One, Who called OBL an Iraqi?

Two, Name calling?

But, then again, I should expect this diversion from the facts.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Lady's Human
I'm with Richard, trying to figure out two things.....


One, Who called OBL an Iraqi?

Two, Name calling?

But, then again, I should expect this diversion from the facts.

Hummm, I seem to remember you telling someone in another
thread to take their pissing contest elsewhere. Don't you ever
take your own advice? Besides I would really like to hear folks
discuss the Bush speech. Did you hear it at all?

[Lady's Human]

Liz, when I made the request that the urinating contest be taken elsewhere, it was in another forum outside the dog house. I've come to accept is as par for the course in the dog house, but it annoys me in the other forums.


I try to never listen to speeches, I prefer to read the text after the fact. It eliminates variables that can affect how you hear the speech. Given the current events in Iraq, it was a clear statement that needed to be made. The President did not link Iraq to 9-11 in the speech, he linked current events in Iraq to "the war that was brought to our shores on 9-11", as in the terrorists (NOT IRAQIS) who are in Iraq killing both our troops and Iraqi civilians.

[lizbud]

Actually it was in the Dog House. In the thread called Shame
On Canada.



04-19-2005 08:23 PM

Lady's Human
Citizen


Barker, NY (Don't look for it on the map, it ain't there)
Posts: 425



again, please take the urinating contest to PM land.

[RICHARD]

For men Peeing contests are a llittle harder...

Or aim isn"t as good. Plus walking around with a wet spot in your pants let's everuone know what happened.

I haven't met you liz.......But I know I'd like you.....best two outta three falls????:D

Ummmm
In what context was LH's comment made???
No fair using sound bites...


I think we have been having a pretty good get- along so far..

We start out slow......nitpick at each other,
one side scores a point....the other side scores a point....

I start frothing at the mouth , confuse everyone and we go on.....

Ths one reason that I love these little "mano a manos' is that I like to have fun. I like to talk to someone with out the flaming that goes on in other sites......It's fun and tests my my knowledge of Trivia...


Think one thing when you start to read something I post..especially in a thread like this....


One, we are gonna disagree.

Two, I'll make some comment out of left field.

Three, Have fun with the topic.

Four, When the poop hits the fan remember. We are all of the human race.

Five, It's only politics.


a good 'arguement' is one where you get pissed, laugh a little, curse a little and keep it civil...

Liz, Sarah and anyone else that tunes in......

We have some great and fun discussions about the world of politics....they keep me sharp and wanting more information on the subjects we cover and I do appreciate the effort....

Just don't take things so seriously....it's only a opinion.......
And to show that I am truly down-to-earth....

If I ever am picked by GWB to hold a political office....

Either one of you can be the pricncess of the realm!!

Honest...




pssst....I really do listen to Air America!!!
;eek:

[ILoveReptiles]

Isn't it wonderful that we live in countries where we can speak our mind?

Yes - for now at least. Best make use of it before that right disappears too.



Am I the only one that thinks he is a total #&^%-up?
No, most definitely not.