Doberman Skin Problems

[Kelly McMackin]

Just wondering if anyone has any advice for me and my poor Doberman, Kane. Kane is a 10 year old Fawn colored Doberman, he is the greatest with the exception of his poor skin. He looks like he has a serious acne problem; red blister like bumps that will actually get large enough to erupt like a volcano; his hair is extremly thin from his shoulder blades to about his hip bones; it's so thin that during all this cold weather I had to make him a fortress out of blankets, he does live outside 24/7/365 with his other two buddies (an Aust. Shephard and a Siberian Huskey-which neither have this same trouble). His skin looks dry and flakey, but I rarely catch him scratching. Everytime I take him to the vet they do the same thing; medicated bath (two of them before they let me pick him up) and they give him a antibotic; none of this really helps much, maybe a little but nothing major. They tell me to try and keep him out of the dirt, like that's a simple task when we live on a farm, but I've fixed up his bed in a clean area and he doesn't sleep on the ground. I don't belive that he is in any type of pain, cause he still acts like he's a puppy :) but I feel so sorry for him. I feed him good food, Diamond Dog Food (it compares to Iams) and has the Omega 3 in it and 26% protein. The vet has never called it anything but a bad case of dermatitis. Any suggestions out there??? I would appreciate anything so I can try and help "my boy"...thanks!!! :D

[Pit Chick]

While this may not cure him, my first suggestion would be to make him an inside dog. Being outside is only irritating his skin more. He needs to be kept cool, dry, and clean. As the weather starts warming up, you can only imagine what being out in the heat with skin problems is like, add to that biting bugs. Next I would get a second opinion or a referral to a specialist because some vets are just band aid doctors that can only give basic advise on special situations. I have a Husky mix with the same problems your Dobie has and the only thing my vet can recommend is the baths twice a week in the special shampoo. She is on a good food and I've tried several different things, from fish oil to zinc and nothing seems to work. My problem is I can't really afford a specialist right now so the best I can do is make her as comfortable as possible by keeping her in the house, on the good food, and baths. Sorry I couldn't be of much help, but I hope it helps a little.

[mruffruff]

I agree with making him an indoor dog. It has to help. It also couldn't hurt to add a large tablespoon of yogurt to his food.

I have a shepherd/beagle/?? mix that has some trouble with his skin, too. He lost most of the hair on his rear several years ago before I got him. He's dry and flaky in spots and always was itching or licking, and shedding.

I put him on Nutro dog food and this helped, but he was still itchy and shedding like crazy. I finally bought some VitaCoat Plus from Drs. Foster & Smith. After 2 weeks I saw a noticeable difference. Very little shedding and much less itching and licking.

This may not solve your problem, but there has to be help somewhere. I think I'd ask a different vet for an opinion. He may be alergic to something in his food.

Let us know how he does.

Mary

[Scooby4]

Add some brewer's yeast to the dog's food. You can buy it in powder form at a health food store and add it to their food. They have it in pill form at pet stores and walmart. Avoid the kind with Garlic in it. It can cause gas.
It works on my dogs! My old Eskimo Spitz eats it like a treat! Although my Scooby may be allergic to yeast. It does take a few days to get into their systems. It is also supposed to help with fleas but haven't seen it do much for that. However, their coat will improve and help with shedding issues.
Also try increasing combing/brushing. This should help spread natural body oils throughout the coat and skin. My short hair dog LOVES to be brushed. The wire brushes work well and it helps with "Scratching". Which I am sure the dermatitis is doing.
Gives some benadryl if the itching gets too bad. My 35 lb dog has taken a full pill and been okay. However, I like to break the capsule and get the powder in their mouth or on food.
My neighbor has 2 fawn colored Dobies! They are outside but have shelter. They are soo sweet and cute! One of them is named Benji just like mine! Adds confusion when I call:confused: .
I understand why you keep the doggy outside. If you make that choice then make sure you keep making the effort of clean water and bedding. Not every dog can live inside with you. I wish I had kept my adopted Boarder Collie outside.:mad: She's too big. Also she has peed on the carpet and eaten my furniture! She was a lost dog and I believe lived on a farm. It has taken ALOT of time and patience to get her to adapt to living indoors. It is still a work in progress!:rolleyes:

[bckrazy]

I completely agree with Ruff and Pit Chick. Especially as an older dog with hair loss, he needs to be inside where it's warm and you can monitor his health more easily. He may also be experiencing stress outside which could aggrivate skin problems, along with the cold aggrivating possible arthritis. Your other dogs should also spend time inside, there is no such thing as an outside dog, and it isn't fair for them to spend 24/7 outside subjected to cold/heat. Even if they are farm dogs, Aussies and Sibes and Dobermans are all very people-oriented dogs who probably would love to have inside time in the warm house with their family. Just allowing him to sleep in a crate inside might help. I don't know a lot about skin problems, I would try other foods to see if this could be food allergies. Look for lamb-based kibble, like Solid Gold Hund-N-Flocken. There are also a lot of holistic medications and creams (some available from Solid Gold) to help with skin problems.

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by Scooby4
I wish I had kept my adopted Boarder Collie outside.:mad: She's too big.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

the lamest excuse for keeping a dog outside. ever. Dogs are pack animals and, especially those that are only pets, need to be with their pack indoors. Border Collies are absolute velcro dogs and thrive on human attention and interaction. Whether they weigh 2 lbs or 200 lbs. I think all of us have gone through potty training and behavioral issues, with rescue dogs especially. To ban her to the backyard because of that is heartless, to me. Is it her fault that she's a medium-sized dog? Or that her last owners were not as kind to her? Maybe she's poorly potty trained because your Dad kept her outside 24/7? Keeping dogs outside 24/7 causes so many behavioral problems that can be hard to fix, but its worth it.

Why does anyone even want a dog if the only purpose/job they serve is to be a backyard ornament? :mad:

[LorraineO]

dobermans are NOT outdoor dogs..... I am surprised you are not aware of this... but now that you are,, perhaps you can help him out and remedy that right away!! I dont have much in the way of advice for his skin,, but my dober girl has thinning hair,, but her skin is fine.... but please,, bring your dober boy INSIDE!!!! these dogs are Velcor babies,, they NEED thier humans and love to be close.....

dogs are pets,, not outdoor ornaments... sorry to sound harsh... but thats the bottom line as far as I am concerned!

[Kelly McMackin]

I think somethings wrong with me email....

[Scooby4]

I live in the south and have a very mild climate. Keeping dogs outside isn't a big deal. My dogs no longer develop a healthy winter coat due to them being kept inside a majority of the time. Developing and shedding a winter coat is a good thing for a dog to do each year. It allows them to keep healthy coats and skin.
My border collie is very much a farm dog. She loves to stay outside and had a hard time adjusting to coming inside the house! Her bathroom habits were to be expected and have improved but NOT perfect.:rolleyes:
I wish I had kept her outside as she is a much better dog out there. Her personality and activity level is improved outside. Inside she has extreme nervous behaviors. She ate part of my dresser! She loves to chew on sticks and subsituted my dresser!
I don't see a "BIG" deal of keeping a dog outside if it is properly cared for and given shelter. To get on a high horse and insist this is just plain cruelty is just too judgemental for me. The last time I checked Dobermans were used as guard dogs on the OUTSIDE. The Egyptians were the first to domesticate dogs/cats and they kept them outside. If I am to keep ALL the animals inside where do I put the Bear?

[Kelly McMackin]

Easy on me there folks!:) My dogs have all lived outside all of their lives; we live in KY, the weather is not that rough here. Yes we do have cold winters and yes I do bring the dogs in when it's terribly cold BUT like i said before we have a large metal building back behind the house where we keep the tractor, hay bailer, horse supplies, etc. that the dogs stay in; they have the biggest dog house in town w/ nice soft snuggly beds, a big water bowl and their food! I spend time with them every morning before i go to work and i stay outside with them while i feed them their supper every night and then we have "play time" for a little while. My dogs get plenty of love and attention and i'm offended that anyone would even consider calling them "yard ornaments"; their are all members of our family as far as I'm concerned but you tell me...would you rather live in a house and be stuck in there all day by yourself while your owners were at work or would you like to be outside with a big house that you can go in and out of when you want and you've got about 350 acres all around you have free rein to roam around because your aunts, uncles and grandparents own the entire road? Bringing them in on a permanent basis is not an option, it simply would not work with two adults that work full time an hour away from home. Also, the fact that my step son and I both have allergies would not work with a house full of dog hair and not to mention the pollen, etc. that they would bring inside. And tell me what Siberian Huskey wants to be inside? Chubs will lay upside down in the yard when it's snowing on him and fall asleep; he will not come in the house, i think he feels confined, he just doesn't like it, the closest he will come is the door and give us a few "woo woo woo's" and wag his tail out of control! The other two will come in but about after an hour their at the door ready to go back out; they love it outside and i love being outside with them. We go for a lot of walks together and when we get the horses out they follow right along with us and all of the other riders even if we go 15 miles back in our knobs; my dogs are in great shape and they are tough as nails. My dogs also do not have any type of behavioral problems because they live outside; they are all complete angels. They do not tear things up because their not bored. The don't even go #2 in our yard. They all obey very well and know how to sit, shake hands, lay down, and stay when told. A dog with behavioral problems is a dog that gets no attention and is bored; not because their outside; give me a break. :p
I'm going to try out the VitaCoat from Dr. Foster's and some brewer's yeast and see if that makes any difference in Kane's skin. Thank you for the suggestions! If anyone else has any ideas to share on what I can do to help my dobie's skin (I would love to hear from someone w/ the same trouble???) I would love to hear from you. Thank you all for replying so quickly...have a great day!

[Corinna]

I have a springer with what sounds the same as your dog. Merlin is an indoor dog. I started giving him a cayene pepper capsule and a oil Pill(its a combo Flax,fish,and borage from Rexall) each morning and it is clearing his skin and helping with thin coat.
Do the blisters smell? Merlins do and the vet has no clue what we are dealing with so I started studing nutrinets and came up with this. Its been a month and His body whitch was covered, is almost all cleared up.I am also bathing him every couple weeks with a puppy shampoo,Like a baby shampoo. I had to shave him bald to start this so your dobie is already to start . I just scrub the heck out of him to try to get the blisters to erupt and get that yuck out of them.
Hope it helps if you try it.

[Kelly McMackin]

Corrinna, thank you for the ideas and thank you for not getting on my case about my dogs being outside :D
What size of a pepper capzule to you use? How much does your springer weigh? My dobie is about 95 lbs. I just don't want to give him to much or to little....I think the food I feed them has all three of the oils you mentioned, wonder if they can get to much? How much do you give your dog and I'll look into that too.
I don't think his bumps stink, they just look like acne with a bad case of extra dry skin, kinda like an alligator texture in places. Some of the bumps will get big and erupt like a pimple and blood and a puss will come out, i just clean him up with a little perioxide and some neosporin and he goes on happy as can be snikering from ear to ear! He loves a bath so that won't be a problem and the puppy/baby shampoo sounds like a good idea because it's probably extra gentle on his skin. Thanks again Corrinna, I'll give these ideas a whirl too!!!

[Corinna]

Merlins erupt and look like the waxy stuff from a black head. Merlin is 65-70 lbs (a tad over weight) the pepper is 40,000 STU Spring valley brand the oils (his food has it too but he needed more) The oils are suppling omega 3,6,9, most foods only provide 6 . I take these to so they working for my on my diabetes too. The pepper says for adult people 2-3 tablets 2-3 times a day so I think one per day should be safe. In my thread I have answered a lot of questions for others. "Found answers for skin problem"on the dog health

[Kelly McMackin]

Thanks to you too Scooby4 for giving me a break on the "outside dog" issue :D Especially on the Doberman inside deal, goodness sakes, not what I expected from another dobie owner, they were bred for guard dogs outside, you hit that one on the nose! *thumbs up to you*
I agree with you about the coats too, my dogs (w/ the exception of Kane) all develop beautiful winter coats and they shed them with no problems over the summer, I'm big on brushing too and they all love that. Kane isn't bald by any means, his hair on his chest and around his neck is pretty and shiney, it's the same way on his "bootie" and the back of his legs, it's just the part in-between that looks rough; he does have enough to shed a little himself; i don't use the same comb on him as the other two dogs, it would be to hard on his skin. I use a softer brush just for him and it works well. Sometimes i even have to use the horses curring comb on the Huskey, his hair will come out right and left when he starts shedding; I swear you could make another dog out of all the hair that comes off of him!!!
Thanks again, I'll give y'all an update when i get this new stuff and try it out on Kane's hair/skin. Keep your fingers crossed please! Have a great day!:)

[Pit Chick]

Originally posted by Kelly McMackin
their are all members of our family as far as I'm concerned but you tell me...would you rather live in a house and be stuck in there all day by yourself while your owners were at work or would you like to be outside with a big house that you can go in and out of when you want and you've got about 350 acres all around you have free rein to roam around because your aunts, uncles and grandparents own the entire road? Bringing them in on a permanent basis is not an option, it simply would not work with two adults that work full time an hour away from home. Also, the fact that my step son and I both have allergies would not work with a house full of dog hair and not to mention the pollen, etc. that they would bring inside.

How many other members of your family live outside 24/7, 365? My dogs have no complaints about being inside all day while I'm at work because my scent is still there reminding them of me and they have each other to keep them company. They sleep or watch tv and when I come home they get time to romp and play outside and when they are ready to come back in they stand at the door either barking or banging to come back in. If I wasn't afraid of my dogs being stolen while I was gone, I would put in a doggy door so they could come and go as the please. All of the dogs in my house were rescues that more than likely spent their entire lives outside 24/7 and now that they've had a taste of the inside life, they have no desire to go back to being a "yard ornament". Horses and cattle need acres, not dogs. So are you allergic to dogs or pollen? If it's just pollen then maybe you shouldn't ever go outside because you might inhale a little while you're out there, far more than your dogs could carry in on their coats, which wouldn't be a problem if they were washed and brushed regularly and aren't out there 24/7. :rolleyes: If you don't think living outside 24/7 is so bad, why don't you?

Scooby4,

Border Collies are a medium sized breed which I'm sure, unless you are a very little person, are much bigger and tall than. So if a BC is too big to live inside a house, wouldn't that make you too big to live inside also? :rolleyes: I don't think Egyptians had a lot of doors and windows to keep their dogs and cats outside only and having dirt floors, they probably didn't care if the animals were inside. I think until the invention of carpet, animals were probably more welcomed inside. If your BC is destructive, then she may need more activity and play time and mental stimulation, not just being secluded to the backyard so she won't destroy your precious furniture. Furniture can be replaced, a dog that gets stolen or hit by a car can't.

[Pit Chick]

And just because a dog was bred for outside work, doesn't mean it has to live outside. What good is that "guard dog" in the backyard when someone kicks in your FRONT door? People who work outside don't necessarily want to live out there. Who doesn't like a change of scenary? And I guess since Pit Bulls were bred to rip each other apart in a pit, then that's where they should live, huh?

[Kelly McMackin]

My dogs have no complaints that they live outside either. Since you know so much about this topic you tell me how I'm supposed to take three dogs that have lived outside all of their lives with free rein to go where they want and put them inside and make them stay there all day; i'm talking from 7:30 am - 6:30 pm by themselves...woo wee that sounds like fun, I'm sure they will just love laying in the house watching tv all day instead of being out in the sunshine so they can go swim in our pond, or go rest under a big shade tree...maybe i should hire a baby sitter to come over and watch them too! This is getting ridiculous, you know your dogs and I know mine and i'm telling you they don't want to stay in the darn house and i'm not going to move them in, they have their own house and don't need to live in mine. What do you mean dogs don't need acres??? Sure they do, that way they don't get run over by cars or stolen by someone who doesn't have anything better to do. And when it comes to my allergies and my step sons, you don't know either of us or the heck that we've been through getting his allergies under control that are 110% worse than mine; so you don't have to try and get personal with me and I would appreciate it if you didn't. Tell ya what, how about you just don't reply to me since you don't have anything kind to say.

[wolflady]

This does sound like dermatitis to me. While it might be a good idea to go to a different vet for a second opinion, it sounds like they are doing what most vets would do for dermatitis...bath, antibiotics etc.

However, I have a section up on my Vet Hospital's website about diet tips for dogs that might be worth trying. It's really amazing how many health, skin, random problems can be solved by diet alone. :-)

Please feel free to take a look at: http://www.gilroyvet.com/564460.html for tips from my veterinarian.

I know that the lighter colored dobies tend to be more susceptable to skin conditions then the darker variety, so it's very possible that your dog's skin condition is caused by allergies (food or something outside). If it's a food allergy, the tips outlined on the web page should help you.

Good luck! :)
**hugs**

[Pit Chick]

I don't see anything unkind about what I said. Don't get upset because I made a point that you don't want to hear. I'm sorry you and your step son have allergies, but how would bringing the dogs inside make them worse than when y'all go outside where the pollen is in the air everywhere? You could install a doggy door so your dogs can make the choice to be inside or outside. Like I said, if you don't think living outside is so bad for the dogs, why don't you go out and live with them and see how much more "fun" that is. A pet sitter isn't a bad idea, people do it, especially those who live in apartments and work all day. They have a pet sitter or dog walker come over and take their dogs out and keep them company for a little while. And as rediculous as it sounds, people even take their dogs to daycare so they can play with other dogs and still be inside.

You want to know how to make outside dogs into inside dogs, just don't make them go outside. Give them the option of coming and going. Once they see they get to be with you more when they are inside, they don't get bitten by bugs, they aren't shivering from the cold or panting from the heat and they have a soft, dry, clean bed, they adjust. Just because your dogs wag their tails when you go outside with them doesn't mean they are happy to be outside, it means they are happy to see you.

[Scooby4]

This is ridicolous. The people in here who are saying keep the dogs inside are also including instructions on how to do it. A little judgemental? :rolleyes:
I also find it incredible that these people encourage keeping your dogs inside as if part of the household but most likely keep their hamsters in a glass cage. How natural is that? Didn't someone mention people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?
Keeping dogs outside isn't ghetto or abusive to them. This is their natural habitat. If it wasn't, they'd found a way to install cable tv outside by now!
Get real and don't pass judgement on the situation each person lives with when owning their pets. Inside or outside it doesn't matter as long as they are loved and fed!!!

[Pit Chick]

Originally posted by Scooby4
This is their natural habitat.

There hasn't been anything "natural" about dogs since man created dog breeds. These aren't wolves we're talking about. Humans took on the dog as their "pack" and by keeping a dog separated from it's pack by forcing it to live outside while the human lives inside is unnatural. Like bckrazy said, why get a dog if it's just going to be a backyard ornament that only gets attention when YOU want to give it to them.

[Scooby4]

I just wonder how many animals would be put to death today because a potential owner had to keep the dog in a fenced backyard and wasn't allowed to adopt? Sounds like the body of these dead dogs/cats would make better "Yard Ornaments" than live ones with food, water, and shelter.
How dare someone judge that because a dog or cat is kept outside it isn't loved and just for decoration? I know plenty of rescue organizations that keep kennels outside for their animals. Hunters keep their dogs in kennels outside. Heck, most farmers keep a dog outside for protection of their chicken coups.
Are you telling us that I must have my dog with me 24/7 to make me a good owner? Yet, you recommend a dog sitter or doggy door? Those are times we aren't with our dogs. I wonder if someone sees your dog outside after using the doggy door that your just own that dog as an ornament?
If dogs weren't meant to be outside then why the coat of hair? The ability to hunt wildlife for food... and running in packs? Mmm... maybe god was thinking?:rolleyes:

[Kelly McMackin]

Tell ya what Pit Chick; living with them out in the building wouldn't be bad at all if you want to get smart here; there is electric in the building, space heater to hook up if it's cold and a fan to turn on if it gets warm, a concrete floor, three extra large dogs beds (guess i'll need to get another one :p ), clean blankets, running water, and plenty of room to jump and play; all i will need to do is get some cable hooked up out there so we can watch Animal Planet together. Doesn't sound to bad to me.
When i hit the lottery i'll hire that dog sitter and those professsional cleaners that can clean my house all day and keep the dog hair up since our doctors told us not to have any animals with hair in the house to try and keep "our air" as clean as possible in the house without pet hair, pet dander, pollen, etc. A doggy door is not an option either, my dogs are big time hunters and personally i don't want "their prizes" strung all around in my house like they are in my yard, it's not a real pretty site and it's nasty enough having to pick "the prizes" out of the yard with a shovel and throw them in the dumpster.
How do you know your dogs are happy? Maybe they sit around and complain to one another about being stuck inside all day....You don't know my dogs; i've raised them from pups and they love it outside. How do I know this you ask? Because they have the option to leave and never come back every single day and you know what....they don't; they have never wondered to far from home. They are always there when I get home from work each and every day. They greet me at my car and we "hang out" inside or out until it's time for supper; they eat after we do just in case there are some yummy leftovers to top off their food. I believe if they weren't happy they would have found somewhere better to be by now. I agree with Scooby, inside or out, as long as they are shown plenty of love and affection and they get plenty of food in their tummies i think life is pretty good for them. Heck, my dogs have it better than a lot of people.

Wolflady - Thank you so much for your vet website; there is some great info on there. I really appreciate it!

[Pit Chick]

Originally posted by Scooby4
I just wonder how many animals would be put to death today because a potential owner had to keep the dog in a fenced backyard and wasn't allowed to adopt?

Why do you think those animals are in the shelter being put to death? They didn't just walk into the shelter and say 'I think I want to die today'. The ones that weren't turned over by the owners were picked up as strays that were either allowed to run free or stuck in a backyard 24/7 and had enough of that life. My dogs don't really want to live in the house, they just stand at the back door barking to come in for fun :rolleyes: And my fosters must hate being inside after a lifetime outside, that's why they barge through the door the second it's open. I mean heck, I'm sure they would be much happier outside in 100 heat in the shade during the day and a bazillion masquitos biting them at night. And I'm sure during the winter that single layer coat will keep them real warm.
How much wildlife does your dog hunt for food Scooby? And what pack does your dog run with? Seeing as how humans have become the pack, doesn't it make sense that they should be with their pack? But gee, it's a little hard for them to be with their pack when they are stuck out in the yard 24/7.

[Scooby4]

It takes a really sick person to assume a dog being kept outside is just a yard ornament. What do you think of horses in fields? A trophy?
Assuming mistreatment of animals is a big assumption and done by very small judgemental people. What do you think when you drive by a homeless person? They should be inside your house 24/7? It's okay for a homeless person to sleep outside but not a dog? If your so concerned about a dog being outside, then you should have no problem allowing a homeless person live with you too!
By the way, my next door neighbor has 2 rescued fawn colored Dobies. They are kept outside with cover and are really great dogs! However, my other neighbor next door has 3 yippee yappee pomeranians they keep inside and they are the MOST uncontrollable loud dogs in the neighborhood. The owner's mistreat them and use them as trophy dogs. So don't tell me that inside dogs aren't trophies and kept as ornaments for the owners. I often feel sorry for those dogs as they NEVER get the attention as the Dobie's do. And they are outside ALL the time!

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by Scooby4

I also find it incredible that these people encourage keeping your dogs inside as if part of the household but most likely keep their hamsters in a glass cage.

I don't have a hamster. And people who do have hamsters, probably keep them in cages/enclosures because they dont want the hamster getting trapped in walls, or running out the door and getting eaten, or getting stepped on :p anyway.. thats off topic. It also isn't natural that we keep dogs as pets! We crossed the line of "nature" when we domesticated dogs. When people worked outside all the time, it was much more understandable that their dogs were primarily outside. People also didn't realize or care about all of the myriad health problems an "outside" dog risks, including skin problems due to weather, bug bites, sun, wind, rain, etc. Now, most people are inside 80-100% of the day and very little contact or love is shared with their "outside" dogs. That's why I generally believe that dogs should be where their people are - inside or out.

I completely, 100% agree with Pit Chick!! Dogs crave inside time with their people, even if its just a few hours a day and at night to sleep. I did not recommend that your dogs spend their entire days inside. It is wonderful that they have a farm to run around on, I wish I had 350 acres for my dog. That doesn't mean that it's in their best interest, healthwish and tempermentally, to sit outside 24/7/365! I know many, many wonderful Border Collie breeders and owners, who have acreage and own working dogs. Their dogs work with them during the day, and sleep with them at night. Why? Because they want their dogs to fully respect, love, protect, and be loyal to them. Forcing your dogs to live outside their entire lives give them a sense of being apart from your pack and your house, they form their own pack and naturally that makes them less social. I do think it'd be very beneficial to your dogs that you began introducing them to spending time in the house. No - Dobermans were not bred to sit outside and be guard dogs, they were bred as a companion, and their coat and structure is not designed for harsh weather.

Ok, obviously, the reason I suggest that your Dobe is an inside dog, is because he is an older dog experiencing health problems. In order to more easily monitor his health, apply and give medications, protect his skin from the damaging affects of weather and bugs and dirt, it would be best to keep him inside with supervised walks and time outside. And as for your dogs never having been acquainted with living inside with their people, that is your fault, not theirs. I honestly do think keeping your sick Doberman inside would help his condition, and you asked for advice, so you got it :p

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by Scooby4
It takes a really sick person to assume a dog being kept outside is just a yard ornament. What do you think of horses in fields? A trophy?
Assuming mistreatment of animals is a big assumption and done by very small judgemental people. What do you think when you drive by a homeless person? They should be inside your house 24/7? It's okay for a homeless person to sleep outside but not a dog? If your so concerned about a dog being outside, then you should have no problem allowing a homeless person live with you too!
By the way, my next door neighbor has 2 rescued fawn colored Dobies. They are kept outside with cover and are really great dogs! However, my other neighbor next door has 3 yippee yappee pomeranians they keep inside and they are the MOST uncontrollable loud dogs in the neighborhood. The owner's mistreat them and use them as trophy dogs. So don't tell me that inside dogs aren't trophies and kept as ornaments for the owners. I often feel sorry for those dogs as they NEVER get the attention as the Dobie's do. And they are outside ALL the time!


I dont even understand most of this. Whatever. I have no idea what homeless people have to do with this.... I'm pretty sure those homeless people would MUCH prefer sleeping inside in a warm bed. Horses are obviously livestock, and probably couldn't fit through the door of a house. Most dogs only serve the purpose of being a PET. Why does anyone need a PET if the only purpose it serves is to sit outside? Would YOU like to sit outside in a yard all day, with barely 10-20 minutes of attention from the owner that you devote your life to? The reason I refered to keeping a dog outside 24/7 as keeping it as a backyard ornament, is because 99% of the time (as far as I've seen, and I have volunteered for rescues and shelters for 4 years) when people keep their dogs in the backyard, the dogs are alone out there, just for looks, or for the person's own sick enjoyment. Big deal if they go out to feed them and spend 10 minutes with them. The dogs needs are often overlooked, they're undersocialized and waay underexercised. The fact is, there are good owners and neglectful owners. SOME situations are better for the dog to be outside (healthy working dogs, people who work outside with them). MOST are not, in the suburban/city world we live in.

Also, I wanted to add that MY wonderful, amazingly reliable Border Collie was once also a wreck in the house. We got him at 8 months old from people who owned a cattle ranch and bred him, who kept him outside 24/7, in a barn with other dogs. He had fear issues (especially with other dogs), food guarding issues, he was unsure in all new situations, he was neurotic, un-housetrained and he had never heard a vaccum or any other normal household noise. After thorough, consistent housetraining he didn't have a single accident after the first week. We gave him plenty of one-on-one attention, and exercised him frequently, along with providing more chewies, bones and toys than he needed. He chewed on a door frame once, but with a little bit of effort and direction he never destroyed anything. Me and Gonzo also attented Obedience classes for about 1 year straight, then follow-up classes. He is an awesome dog now, and he LOVES his life... he's no longer neurotic, destructive, fearful, or anything. I'm sure Benji could be a model doggy too, with a little bit of effort. Obedience classes, crate training, and plenty of exercise would definitely help her. I couldn't ever imagine keeping my dog outside, he would absolutely die. He loves being with his family, recieving that special attention, and being in the middle of everything, and we love him too.

[bckrazy]

some links that every dog owner should read and think about...

http://www.iwclubofamerica.org/outside_dogs.htm

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/articles.html

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by Scooby4
I wonder if someone sees your dog outside after using the doggy door that your just own that dog as an ornament?

I'm sorry I keep quoting you and replying. I'm supposed to be doing homework (:rolleyes: ) right now but this is kind of mindset really disturbs me. The reason we refer to these dogs as "Lawn Ornaments" is the fact that they sit outside miserably night and day. I could (and have before) scream at some of my nieghbors, whose dogs are kept outside only... I know one family who lives one block away from me, who had an "outside dog". He was a cream/white Husky, who was very energetic and playful, but was kept in their backyard day and night, with little contact, no training, no stimulation or exercise or fun outings. Several times when I was walking Gonzo, he had gotten out and came after Gonzo, I could tell he only wanted to play but he had no social skills at all with other dogs and he was fearful and agressive. The man would sometimes keep him in a small kennel. I recently found at that, while we had been remodeling our house and moved into a rental, that dog bit some kids when he had gotten out and was put to sleep by animal control. THAT is a lawn ornament, we don't mean that literally, just that the dog basically just sits in the yard and serves no purpose. Dogs want a purpose and a pack and a family and a warm place to sleep, which the vast majority of outdoor dogs do not experience. I cannot understand why you don't see this.

[Pit Chick]

Originally posted by Scooby4
It takes a really sick person to assume a dog being kept outside is just a yard ornament. What do you think of horses in fields? A trophy?
Assuming mistreatment of animals is a big assumption and done by very small judgemental people. What do you think when you drive by a homeless person? They should be inside your house 24/7? It's okay for a homeless person to sleep outside but not a dog? If your so concerned about a dog being outside, then you should have no problem allowing a homeless person live with you too!

You're not comparing apples to apples with the horses and dogs.

No one was assuming there was any mistreatment of animals going on, don't read more into it than what has been said.

What I think when I drive by a homeless person is, 'they have shelters they can go to for help where they won't be euthanized like an animal would for being homeless'. They can get help, but instead choose to sit on the corner begging for money which they will in turn buy beer, cigarettes, and/or drugs with. If they wanted help, they could get it, but then that would mean giving up handouts and drugs. My uncle tried to offer a homeless guy some work at his shop and when he told him how much he could pay him, the guy said, "I make more than that standing on the corner with my sign." I help homeless animals, because they can't get jobs to support themselves, homeless people can if they wanted too.

[LorraineO]

I have 2 questions.....

If you and your son have such terrible allergies,, why did you choose dogs that you cant have in your house?? There are breeds that are allergy friendly....??

and secondly,,,, You show me a site where it says dobies are good outdoor dogs ..... and I will eat my hat!:D

[dragondawg]

and end with another.


red blister like bumps that will actually get large enough to erupt like a volcano; his hair is extremly thin from his shoulder blades to about his hip bones; it's so thin that during all this cold weather had to make him a fortress out of blankets, he does live outside 24/7/365 with his other two buddies (an Aust. Shephard and a Siberian Huskey-which neither have this same trouble). His skin looks dry and flakey, but I rarely catch him scratching. Everytime I take him to the vet they do the same thing; medicated bath (two of them before they let me pick him up) and they give him a antibotic; none of this really helps much, maybe a little but nothing major. They tell me to try and keep him out of the dirt, like that's a simple task when we live on a farm

First your Vet needs to give you a referral to a doggy dermatologist. The chances are your dog has almost a chronic skin infection, and antibiotics help, but you are not getting at the root cause of the problem. Although one can not rule out an allergy, it sounds like something more serious is occuring. Dobermans are genetically prone to an increased incidence of hypothyroidism, and a auto-immune skin disease called Pemphigus foliaceus.

Hypothyroidism typically occurs in geriatric dogs, and as just noted Dobermans have an increased incidence of hypothroidism. Low thyroid levels would make the dog less tolerant towards temperature extremes both hot and cold. This could also account for the thinning skin, and flakey scaley appearance. Suspectability to infections can also occur with hypothroidism.

Pemphigus foliaceus. The following description is given by Rosenkrantz (Journal of Veternary Dematology 2004, 15:90-98)

Clinical lesions are variable and include pustules, crusts, erosions, ulcers and alopecia. However, clinical presentations may vary depending on the breed, triggering factors and the cyclical nature of the disease itself. Lesions include pustules, crusts, erosions, ulcers and alopecia. Some cases may remain localized to the head, face and pinnae, while others may generalize and develop additional systemic symptoms.

The treatment for this disease is to suppress the immune system. Sometimes large doses of Prednisone can control it. Other cases may require powerful immuno-suppressant drugs such as Cytoxin, or even Azathioprine.

One can also not rule out Demodex mange, which is also a sign of a suppressed immune system, and possible cancer lurking in an old dog.

Not to inflame the fire, but indeed IF it turns out to be thyroid or Pemphigus the best place for this dog will be inside - as much as possible. The reason being the more controlled climate inside, and a cleaner one. Else trying to control skin infections is going to be very difficult. IF Pemphigus, the treatment for the condition will leave puppy wide open to infection.

Once upon a time with my previous Daisy dog, I had started her outside at night. Every morning I would let her in, and then go off to work putting her outside again. Then when I came home I let her out of the pen. She actually didn't seem to mind the routine. At about 7 months I was due to take a trip up North to Indiana in the middle of winter. So I decided one night to try letting her sleep inside. It came the usual time when I would have put her out. Instead I invited her upstairs, it was though her eyes lighted up. She ran upstairs to the bedroom, and 15 minutes later was sound asleep. Thereafter she was inside at night. What I had going for me in this was that an outside dog will consider the house, especially if they are invited in regularly as the inner most part of their territory. In another words the house becomes just a huge den to them. Housebreaking is automatic.

You should consider letting them in at night. Try to make sure they did their doggy duties first. And you need to consider making sure the dog's contact with fecal dust or other animal excretement outside is minimal. I just quickly scanned through this thread, but somewhere you must have mentioned allergies as a problem. Get a good air filter such as the product from Sharper Image. That will help keep some of the dander down, although your sick puppy will probably produce a lot of it initially. For the other dogs a good brushing once per day will help.

Of course the choice is yours, but if the skin condition is more serious than an allergy, then it's going to be very difficult to bring under control in a barn. Young to middle age dogs are low maintenance. Geriatric dogs are high maintenance. Most important - get a referral to a dermatology, else things will get worse.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

The fawn coat colour in the Doberman is a dilute colour, dogs with either fawn or blue coats often have skin/coat problems like you're describing. I know that there is something you can do to help him but I jsut can't think of it right now lol. I'll see if I can remember and then I'll be back to this thread to try and help you and Kane:)

[MsMini]

I have to reply to this thread as a loving and devoted Doberman owner myself. I do not want to attack anyone for their personal decisions with their pets.
I am not one to have my dogs live outside full -time but for some dogs like Siberian Huskies and full-coated breeds , they do well outside. But when it comes to a Dobe, they do not. To anyone that has replied that they are supposed to be "guard dogs", they are.But if you have done any research, they were developed to accompany a tax-collector on his rounds .Therefore their personality makes them bond very strong with their owners and they want to live and work close with their Master. To the "guard dog" attitude , that is probably the reason why Dobes have the reputation they keep, as vicious attack dogs.
Being an outdoor dog with a single coat AND skin problems probably isn't helping him any.
There could be many reasons for his skin/coat condition, allergies, vitamin deficiencies, or disease.
I hope you can take something out of all of this and help Kane get better.Good luck .And don't forget to post a photo. I don't get to see too many fawns.


:D