Destructive Separation Anxiety?!?!?!

[Zoe&Nina's Mom]

Does anyone have any good advice on helping to ease separation anxiety? We found my Nina (I have posted about her before) very abused and underweight, tied to fence and left to die about 4 years ago. She is an American Staffordshire Terrier about 5 or 6 years old. She is very loving and clings to my side every minute of every day and follows me to every room I go to. She always needs to have constant affection or to just lay directly beside me or directly on me. When we leave for work during the day, she acts out and destroys things...couches, toys, books, magazines, rolls of toilet paper, etc. It honestly takes 15 minutes every morning to "puppy proof" my house. We have since been putting mats on the furniture to keep her from ripping up the cushions, but I feel like we are just putting a band-aid on the underlying problem, not truly fixing it. I have in the last week or two, got her and her sister, Zoe, their own bed so that they have their own space to sleep at night rather than on the bed with me. I am hoping this is a slow way of weining myself from her. I just don't know what else to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!:confused:

[Lexi_Lover]

First, do you crate her? Because that is a HIGHLY recommened thing to do. It will be her own personal space that she should love. If you don't feel comfortable with putting her in there, confine her to a room. I know Lexi had that and actually started tearing at the walls and got through to the drywall, so we confined her to a room, with a LONG-LASTING bone, a couple toys, her food, water, bed and left her crate open, just to satisfy her of walking around instead of in the crate!

[Giselle]

I have an SA dog and I generally do not agree with crating a fearful dog. I can't tell you how important alone training is. Here's what you do:
Buy a Kong and stuff it with oh-so-yummy goodies. Freeze it or refridgerate it overnight.
The next day, take the now frozen or very cold Kong and place it on your dog's bed.
Turn on the TV or radio.
Close off all unnecessary rooms. For example, my dogs are only allowed in the living room when I'm gone. Every other room is closed off.
Close all windows and try to block all views of the outside world.
If you want, you can plug in your DAP Diffuser now or drop 4 drops of Rescue Remedy onto your dog's tongue. This step is optional.
Finally, leave the house nonchalantly and do NOT make a scene. Just pretend you're going out to get the mail. At first, you leave for 5 minutes. Then, after a few days, you leave for a period of 10 minutes. Then, after another week, 20 minutes. Then 30 minutes and so on. Do these "little leavings" periodically. I recommend doing this at least twice a day. This is also why I recommend buying two or so Kongs so you have them ready whenever you want to leave. It's very easy. Say you're watching a TV program. The commercial comes on. Take a stuffed Kong out and put it on your dog's bed. Leave for 5 minutes, come back with the same coolness and calm, and take the Kong away. Try to come back like nothing happened. Coming or going, don't make a scene. Good Luck and I hope your dog overcomes his/her SA.

[Crikit]

Originally posted by Giselle
I have an SA dog and I generally do not agree with crating a fearful dog. I can't tell you how important alone training is. Here's what you do:


I to have dogs with SA, Smudge used to destroy the house and if given the chance will still try to trash part of it or get in to things he shouldn't when left alone. I've found that even with the training and we attempted it all that over all the crate training was the best way to go at least with my dogs. At least when they are in their crates I know that they are safe and not getting in to anything that they shouldn't be, also in the long run it's better for the dogs to know how to be comfortable in a crate.

[Zoe&Nina's Mom]

I have tried crate training her, but she absolutely hates it... Busted the front door off of two of them. Not to mention the fact that we would come home and she would be sitting on the couch and her crate would still be locked up like we left it!!!!! HOUDINI!! I don't know her past and how she was ever introduced to a crate, but she shakes when when we would put her in it. From the condition we found her in, I feel that whoever had her before would just lock her in it all the time!!

We do close off all of the rooms, except for the kitchen, dining room and living room, due to the fact that she would destroy the mattresses in the bedrooms if we didn't. I have read alot on this and do get mixed opinions on crating a dog with SA. Some feel that it is good while others feel that a dog that was abused with SA, truly can not see past the bars of the crate. They will do anything they can to get out. I read horror stories of extreme cases where the dog would actually severly injure themselves, just to get out of the crate. Considering the fact that she busted the doors of the two that we bought, I think this might be something to be concerned about with her.

I like the idea of slowly leaving her for awhile. When we leave now, they each get a rawhide chip in their bed and I leave. However, when we come home, she is literally bouncing off the walls with joy to see us. I do make a big deal about coming home, especially if she was good and didn't destroy anything!

The trials and tribulations of motherhood!!!:D

[Giselle]

Honestly, crating a fearful dog, to me, is like a band-aid. Of course it "works", but it doesn't really address the real issue. I had a friend with a Doberman who was crated and had extreme SA. She always crated it and the Doberman developed submissive urination and frequently defecated in the crate. They tried medicating the dog, but that caused things to drop rock bottom. I have tried crating Giselle when I'm away, and as soon as I step out of the door, all I hear is clinging and clanging. Unless I videotaped her, I wouldn't really know for sure if the crate really worked or was just a means of containment. Then, again, I know plenty of people who use crates successfully. For me, I'd rather alone train with DAP and RR than use a crate. Alone training also works gradually. The dog is supposed to freak out the first couple of times (sometimes months---that's how long it took us). Eventually, they get that you always comeback and they get a REALLY nummy treat in your absence. Heck, my dog can't wait until I leave :D! Just my op.

I'd also like to add that I do agree with crate training, but I only use the crate for sleeping purposes.

[Pit Chick]

You could also combine the alone training and crating.

Start feeding her in her crate so that she associates it with a good thing...food. Practice crating her while you are there so that she doesn't instantly associate crating with being alone. (Keep a TV or radio on when you do leave so that the voices don't make it seem so lonely.) Try the leaving for a few minutes at a time like Giselle said, except the dog stays in the crate and she gets to have her kong and chewies. When you come back after the 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes and she is still in her crate have a "praise party". When she doesn't have to be crated leave the crate door open so she can go in on her own if she wants. Hope this helps.

[Lexi_Lover]

Happy Birthday! I guess today is your birthday, have a GREAT one! And don't let this little problem bother you!

I don't see you in any other threads, so I just posted here;):D

[Zoe&Nina's Mom]

Thank you soooooooooo much!!! I'm sure we can work through this. Since I started making the girls sleep in their beds at night, rather than in bed with me, it seems to be getting better. We also combined putting the mats on the furniture with some advice from a local dog trainer here. He advised to take empty soda cans and put pennies in them, tape the hole shut and place them on the edge of the cushions on the couch. As I am putting them on the couch, I shake them to make a noise. She seems frightened of the noise. Since using this technique, she hasn't been pulling the mats off and destroying my furniture!

Thanks again for the birthday wish!!!:D

[jfritz1979]

My beagle does the same thing!!! He is great during the day (on weekends when we don't work he will chew his bones like crazy!) but when we are at work, we come home and he has chewed the lamp cords (thank GOD we unplug everything), books, the lamp shades, started putting a hole in the couch and he pees on the sides of the couch! I am wondering if neutering will help which we were planning on doing before he is a year. He is 8 months now and my husband says we need to crate him now. We have a doberman and the beagle thinks he is his dad. I just don't understand why he is destroying things? I am beginning to wonder if it's because he gets sad when we leave. He knows he does wrong, but yet we don't punish him because technically we didn't catch him in the act! I would love advice. I guess right now we are going to crate him, but it really breaks my heart thinking about that. Especially when the dobie gets to roam around the house and he is stuck in the crate!

[Pit Chick]

jfritz,

Don't feel bad about crating because if your beagle gets into something dangerous or swallows something that could block his bowels, you'll feel even worse. Neutering will definately help with his peeing on the couch and calm him down a little, but since he's a pup he's still going to be destructive. I don't think his problem is anxiety, just a case of the "destructo puppy" stage. If you can take your dogs for walks or runs in the morning before you leave, this should help get the beagle tired and a tired puppy is a happy puppy who won't want to destroy things. But once he's put in his crate after a walk or good romp in the back yard with the Dobie he'll sleep most of the time while you and hubby are gone. Give him some toys like a stuffed kong and chewies to keep him busy, making his crate a fun safe place to be. Dog crates are the equivalent to a wolf's den, it's a private place they can go (or be put) to keep them safe and give them some time to themselves. It also helps with potty traing. In terms of fairness between the dogs, don't worry about it. If one was an outside dog and the other inside, then no that wouldn't be fair, but this isn't the same, they're both inside and they still have each other's presence to keep them company. Once your beagle is older and more mature, then you probably won't ever have to crate him.

[ginagt]

jfritz,
I agree with Pit Chick, don't feel bad about putting your beagle in a crate during the day. It's for his own safety and like has been said before, if the crate has been properly trained the dog will not look at it as punishment but simply his space or "den". My parents have 2 beagles and many times during the day you will find them sleeping in their crates with the door wide open. Make the crate very cozy with lots of blankets. Beagles like to snuggle and be cozy so the more cushin the better. Also I was taught in puppy class dogs don't know jealously so just because your other dog roams free, your beagle won't know the difference. Good luck. And please keep us posted.

[carrie]

Seperation anxiety has been a very tough nut for the behaviourist world to crack. The main problem is the terminology. By calling it "seperation anxiety", which is a valid and correct term, we have assumed that everyone is reading from the same song sheet. Sadly we are not.
To the behaviourist (and I mean a real one) the term is used as if seeing the situation from the animal's eyes. In a dog's eyes the only anxiety created by seperation from the owner is if the dog does not feel safe. The only way that this can happen is if the dog does not trust it's owner to lead the pack (family) in a safe and consistent manner. The dog is given privelages that seem like kindnesses to the owner but seem like signals of dominance to the dog. For instance - the owner comes home from work, the dog rushes up, tail wagging, panting, nudging, perhaps even jumping up. The owner speaks to the dog, looks at it, maybe even drops everything to make sure the dog knows how happy the owner is to be greeted this way at the end of a long day. The dog's response to the owner coming home is highly ritualised and true joy is shown...BUT...it is ritualised for a reason. Any pack leader that has been away from the pack has been away for a reason - it may have been injured during a hunt or fight, it may have been looking for new pack members or getting rid of useless ones, it may have been marking the boundaries of the territory and looking for loopholes in neighbouring ones.....whatever - it is the boss that runs the pack. The rest of the pack all rush up and greet the leader on his return in order to gain information, reaffirm bonds and status within the pack and assess the security of the pack and the strength of the leader.
A confident leader will stand proud, ignore the greetings of the pack and even turn his face and eyes away from those trying to show how happy they are that he is back (the point is, the rest of the pack HAVE to go through this greeting to establish and reinforce the strenghth of the leader - physical, mental and emotional. The leader HAS to go through this every time to prove, without resorting to physical means, that he has the mental, physical and emotional strength to keep the rest of the pack fit, fed and safe.).
For most domestic dogs the life and mixed signals we give them about who is the pack leader is OK.
For 99.9% of the problems seen in domestic dogs it boils down to the issue of trust in the leader and who really is the leader.
The way you treat your dog when you return home has a massive effect on how that dog sees and understands your relationship.
Sleeping places also have a significant message for your dog - the best of everything goes to the leader...it has to. If you have a good leader then the rest of the pack is OK, so it pays to keep a good leader alive with the best food, the best sleeping place, the best breeding opportunities, the best support etc.
Allowing your dog to sleep with the people you are expecting the dog to see as it's leaders is a very confusing thing for the dog. You are telling it that it has the power because it has the best sleeping place and at the same time you are challenging that authority by allowing pack members that the dog has been encouraged to see as lower in the ranking system to have rights in the sleeping place. Your dog has no choice. It has been elected as the leader, it is being challenged, it is not able to distinguish between dog rules and human rules. It does not want the role of leader and so is forced into physical defence because it does have the signals from you or your boyfriend that you are better leader than it is.

[carrie]

Oh and don't put the dog in a crate - no need - nothing natural about a dog being on its own in a "den".

[stacwase]

Does having two dogs reduce the separation anxiety?

[Zoe&Nina's Mom]

Not in my situation...anyone else?

[rebeccarichardson]

We have a rescue dog who came w/"mild" SA. Fortunately, my husband and I are retired and absolutely devoted to our dog.

No, adding another dog does not usually help.
Our behaviorist gave us the "alone-time" protocol [in short increments--mins at a time] to follow.

Also, we would NEVER leave our dog alone in a crate for more than a few minutes.....

We take our dog w/us, or one of us stays home w/her, or if we both have to go and cannot take her along, we hire a sitter.
Our dog also has issues w/other dogs, andso we cannot drop her off at a daytime dog care facility

It is an ongoing project overcoming this problem. It has drastically changed our lifestyle.
:(

[IRescue452]

Unless you are planning on rescuing an older, calm dog I would not recommend getting another yet. A puppy will learn the bad habits of your SA dog even though they are not done out of seperation anxiety. My toller had SA badly when we rescued her. Our older dog seems to have calmed her a lot though. Also I stopped letting her up on my bed at night until she learned to be alone for short periods of time. Correcting SA is a time consuming process. Just start with leaving for small periods of time and start getting her used to the routine you go through before you leave the house. Autumn used to be able to escape any crate so we shut all the doors to rooms we didn't want her in. She discovered the joys of stealing big bags of dumdums and it seems to consume most of her alone time. I don't recommend giving your dog rawhide unsupervised or any other toys that she can get pieces or chunks off of. Autumn doesn't get any toys when I am away because she will shred them. I've had her 5 years and she still has some anxiety, but I keep her so busy when I am home that she is happy when I go away. She gets a quick run before I leave so she doesn't have so much energy when I am gone. It will take a long time, hang in there and good luck.

[Summer Magic]

Magic had a severe case of SA. It's not completely gone but within two weeks she was satisfied that I wouldn't leave her forever. We have three "safe places" for her in our home. Her crate, my easy chair and an occasional chair. She also used to sleep with me but for a the two weeks of training I put her in her crate out of my room. She was brushed up on her stay technique, put in one of her safe places and told to lay down and stay as I walked out of the door. There were many times that I'd have to stop and correct her by puting her back in the chair, etc.. but now she goes readily and doesn't require any further correction. (also it saved my screen door, I'd replaced it three times a month before I hit on this training)

[Summer Magic]

If you don't want to crate your dog is there a room where he can be put where he can't cause any distruction? Like the bathroom?

[Queen of Poop]

Before I leave for work every day I scatter, throughout the entire house, treats for Sasha. A rawhide here, a cookie there, jerkey treat over there. She spends so much time running around to find them all that she must be worn out cause since I've been doing that all has been well.

[rebeccarichardson]

"Awesome photo of your doggie".
I guess I'm a little confused......your dog had "severe" SA and within two weeks you [mostly] conquered it by having her "stay" in certain chairs....?
How long would you be gone at a time?
She no longer exhibits signs of severe/SA during your absence?

I'm only asking, because we have a [rescue] dog who has SA also-She has become spoiled rotten because being retired we have dealt w/her SA by taking her w/us where ever we go--or one of us stays home w/her, as I have indicated in an earlier post.
We have yet "tried" testing her SA, as it is usually easier to just take her along--and we don't like "stressing her out".

We will have to try your technique.

"Jasmine's" mom:)