kitten diarrhea- so frustrating!

[sirrahbed]

My Lizzie and Robbie are now 12 weeks old and I have had them since they were 7 weeks old and still cannot get them well from their bacterial diarrhea. I know it is not serious but it is sooooo frustrating and $$$ as well. They started out with two types of unusual rod bacteria and were treated with a combo of biosol and panocur. Robbie got better and Liz still had it. It is NOT Coccidia or Guardia. Then they got Gentamycin and a week later Liz was better and Rob was loaded with it so they both got another antibiotic - Clavamox or Neomycin I think. Last week Liz was bad again but this time with some sort of spirochete so there were treated with Albon. Today I took them back, knowing that Liz was having liquid bloody diarrhea and I think ALL my cats have it now:( At least there are no tootsie rolls in the box. Sure enough, both babies have it and had to have IV's and two antibiotic injections of Gentamycin and Procaine Penicillin plus some Potassium. I am just feeling so frustrated! The vet said the older cats will probably get well on their own and that the babies just have weak immune systems. I keep throwing out litter and using disposable pans, washing hands, etc. Poor lil things have sore behinds. I am getting sooooo frustrated. Anyone go through this with small kittens?? They appear healthy and are eating well and still gaining so I know it is not that serious - just aggravating!!! They have cost well over $400 at this point. I know they are well worth it but still!! Today, the vet did not even charge me for all the IV's and shots - guess he is frustrated too!! Poor babies are now sore and sleeping. They have to go back again tomorrow:(

[Logan]

:( I'm so sorry, Debbie. I have nothing to add in the way of help, but I'm sorry that you and the kittens are having to go through this. :(

[Craftlady]

I truely believe it these two things. It worked for Skinny's bad coccida. A gal at PetSmart who raises lambs/sheeps told me about these two items.

Give them some plain yogart it promotes good bacteria.
Pumpkin (100% Pure Libbys brand) pie filling. Binds potty the potty. Spoonful couple times a day. I even put dab of yogart on top it looks like pumpkin pie with whip cream :)

[chrangharris]

Poor babies! I'm sorry they aren't getting any better! :( :( :( :(

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by Craftlady
I truely believe it these two things. It worked for Skinny's bad coccida. A gal at PetSmart who raises lambs/sheeps told me about these two items.

Give them some plain yogart it promotes good bacteria.
Pumpkin (100% Pure Libbys brand) pie filling. Binds potty the potty. Spoonful couple times a day. I even put dab of yogart on top it looks like pumpkin pie with whip cream :)

Thanks Becky! I will buy these two items and try them. I remember you had suggested some foods but could not remember what they were. It will be good to feel I am DOING something for them besides the medication!

Thanks Chris....Liz has lost a bit of weight but Rob is still gaining. I hate seeing them look puny today from the shots!!:( I think the penicillin is pretty rough on the muscle.

[K & L]

Have they checked them for parasites? We had a problem with this awhile back and it took some time for them to get over it. They gave ours Flagyl and we fed them small amounts of food several times a day. Be sure they stay hydrated and maybe keep them secluded in a bathroom, spare room, until they're over this. We kept ours in the spare bath away from the other cats. Wish I could be of more help here. I can sure relate to the $$$.

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by K & L
Have they checked them for parasites? We had a problem with this awhile back and it took some time for them to get over it. They gave ours Flagyl and we fed them small amounts of food several times a day. Be sure they stay hydrated and maybe keep them secluded in a bathroom, spare room, until they're over this. We kept ours in the spare bath away from the other cats. Wish I could be of more help here. I can sure relate to the $$$.
Yes to the parasite checks. They are free of coccidia, guardia rounds, hook and tape worms and they do a fecal direct smear at every appointment - the bacteria has changed as one organism overgrows another as it clears up. They have not tried Flagyl yet - maybe tomorrow. We kept them in the bathroom for the first two weeks but they have had free run the past 3-4 weeks. Maybe I should isolate them again:( I notice that they are drinking lots of water but they were still dehydrated at the vet today and needed the IV. I am going to try the pumpkin and togurt as Becky suggested - hubby just returned from the grocery with it - I am not sure the yogurt has real bacteria - though it says "natural" so maybe it does. Thanks Lisa!!!

[QueenScoopalot]

Many times coccidea won't show up on the fecal float..I hear it's one out of ten it might show up. I don't think it would hurt them to give them Albon for a week or two to see if things clear up. Also accidophillus (sp?) capsules sprinkled onto wet food may go down easier than yogurt. Same beneficial ingrediant. Does your vet carry Amphorol by chance? I had a litter of kittens some years back that had non-stop horrible diarrhea, and they'd had every wormer/protozoan treatment etc. out there. The only thing that finally cleared it up for them was Amphorol! Three times a day X three days, and they had formed stools. Poor sore little tushes..give the babies kisses for me (on the head)! ;)

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by QueenScoopalot
Many times coccidea won't show up on the fecal float..I hear it's one out of ten it might show up. I don't think it would hurt them to give them Albon for a week or two to see if things clear up. Also accidophillus (sp?) capsules sprinkled onto wet food may go down easier than yogurt. Same beneficial ingrediant. Does your vet carry Amphorol by chance? I had a litter of kittens some years back that had non-stop horrible diarrhea, and they'd had every wormer/protozoan treatment etc. out there. The only thing that finally cleared it up for them was Amphorol! Three times a day X three days, and they had formed stools. Poor sore little tushes..give the babies kisses for me (on the head)! ;)
Thanks QSA - vet is not using the fecal float - also says it is not accurate for stubborn diarrhea so does the direct smear plus some sort of fluorescent test and microscopic cytology. I will ask about the Amphorol tomorrow!! I still have a whole bottle of Albon to use. I gave them the yogurt and they loved it - it was the live culture w/acidophilus. I asked hubby to check because I don't think many brands are live cultures anymore but Dannon "Natural" had it. They will not even touch the pumpkin. Maybe later or I will try mixing it with the yogurt. Where do you find the acidophilus capsules?? Yes, this is a protozoa that they have right now - a spirochete. The poo no longer stinks like it did. Maybe this is something good?

[QueenScoopalot]

Good news that their poop is less stinky, and hope the yogurt's helping them to replenish their probably depleted little systems. Acidophilus capsules can be found in any health food store, and probably many pharmacies as well. I keep a bottle in the fridge for those poor babies that go through parasite problems seemingly endlessly. :rolleyes: Hope you get their systems under control soon. :)

[catcrazylady]

I am going to be of little help here. You have the experts on board now and I can't offer anything more. I was going to suggest the yogurt and I do remember Craftlady saying the the pumpkin really helped do the trick. She had a horrible time with Skinny as I remember.
Thank goodness they like the yogurt so you don't have to force it on them. Hopefully when you mix the pumpkin with the yogurt and they will eat it. It is really supposed to help bind the poo. Hopefully the good bacteria in the yogurt will take over and kill all those nasty bugs!
I wish I had more to offer but all I can give you is my support. I'm sorry you are having to go through all of this. I know how much you love the babies and are doing everything possible to make this go away.
Prayers, good thoughts, and my sympathy are with you! If there is anything I can do just let me know and be sure to give kissies to the sweeties for me. Poor little things!

[Craftlady]

Originally posted by sirrahbed
I asked hubby to check because I don't think many brands are live cultures anymore but Dannon "Natural" had it. They will not even touch the pumpkin. Maybe later or I will try mixing it with the yogurt.

I just bought the Dannon (Fat Free) Yogart. Kitties think the yogart is milk. :) Try mixing the pumpkin with yogart. Skinny really liked it that way. That's the diet tip of the day. :D

[krazyaboutkatz]

Debbie, I'm so sorry to hear about Robbie and Lizzie.:( I don't have any advice to give you but prayers and positive thoughts are being sent your way. Hopefully something will help them soon. Poor babies.:( Please take care.

[shais_mom]

I am with Logan, Debbie. I don't have any help - just thoughts and prayers.....poor babies....

[PayItForward]

I went though the same thing with our Bramble. We tried all sorts but as the vet suggested she grew out of it for the main part.

She still had attacks which are stress related if leave her alone (with either Steve or a petsitter and 7 other cats :rolleyes: )

Every poo attack we do the same routine, starve her for 24 hours with just drinking water and then feed her light food boiled rice & chicken and back to a normal diet.

The 24 hour without food rests her guts to allow good bacteia to build up again.

Good Luck (I know it is not pleasant dealing with these problems)

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by shais_mom
I am with Logan, Debbie. I don't have any help - just thoughts and prayers.....poor babies....

Ditto. Poor babies. :(

[rg_girlca]

Oh Debbie, I just saw this and I'm so sorry that the babies are still having bowel problems.
I hope and pray that whatever solution you try, that it works well and fast.

[DogLover9501]

Originally posted by shais_mom
I am with Logan, Debbie. I don't have any help - just thoughts and prayers.....poor babies....

Another Ditto. I hope they feel better soon :(

[catcrazylady]

HEY!!! Any update on the babies? Do we have any tootsie rolls yet?

[sirrahbed]

YES, we are seeing some tootsie rolls - semi anyway. They went back to the vet yesterday (Friday) and the cytology showed some improvement - protozoans still there but dying off. So, vet gave them another shot of penicllin and I am supposed to call him back Monday. He seems to feel that the penicillin is working and that the extra shot will do the trick:) They are sleeping allot and sore from the shots. They have been eating lots of yogurt though and maybe that will help, too. No fever and no more bloody diarrhea. Thanks for asking!! Lizzie's weight was back up to her 2#9oz and Robbie is 3#4oz and they look very good:) Lizzie can't be feeling TOO bad because she was NAW-TEE last night and unrolled a roll of toilet paper:rolleyes: The evidence is on Cat General. Thank you all for asking about them:D I am feeling like they are on the mend. I am also happier because my vet did not charge me for the last two visits with the IV's or any of the shots!!:eek: Guess he already felt like he soaked me for enough:) J/K he is a nice vet and I like him allot-very caring and he loves kitties especially:)
If they are NOT better by Monday, he is calling in a formulation of Flagyl to the pharmacy but says he always waits on that because it tastes nasty and is hard to get down the kitties.

[Lacey]

Originally posted by sirrahbed

If they are NOT better by Monday, he is calling in a formulation of Flagyl to the pharmacy but says he always waits on that because it tastes nasty and is hard to get down the kitties.

Amen to that! Zelda would never willingly touch the stuff no matter how well disguised it was: pill pocket, wet food, etc. You know the joke somewhere in General about how to pill a cat? It was about like that, except it ended for me with the trap kitty between knees and shove pill down throat. XD Mowg was pretty good about it, but then when we were about half way through with all his flagyl, he smarted up and started eating the pill pocket and leaving the pill behind.

So here's hoping it doesn't come down to flagyl for Robbie and Lizzie! But if it does, you'll be able to get lots of pics of pitiful drooly faces.

[rg_girlca]

Today is Monday.

How are the babies doing Debbie?

Hoping and praying that it is good news.:)

[sirrahbed]

I am a bad Meowmie:( I have had a migraine for several days and have not even caught them pooping yet. Dennis said he saw baby tootsie rolls on Saturday but no more and I haven't seen any. I am going to scoop again in a minute (they just ate) - but all I have seen are the baby "pancakes" (different from biscuits) and I know I am bad because I was supposed to call the vet *yesterday*!! I will try to find out by tomorrow. Do you know how hard it is to sort out poop with FIVE cats? I don't know how the rest of you do it. At least I have the advantage of size:eek: Also, I can usually get them to perform for me by cleaning out their box after supper.
I suspect we are going to have to get the Flagyl so I will be posting pitiful foamy and drooly face pictures!!:rolleyes:

THANK YOU to everyone for answering and trying to help!!

[kimlovescats]

I have somehow managed to overlook this entire thread until just now!:rolleyes: I guess it is because I just get so used to General being used for everything these days. I'm so sorry, I haven't been in on this battle against the diarrhea with you Debbie!:( I do know that Josephine was put on Flagyl and it seemed to clear her up. She is such a sweetie, I didn't have any problems getting it down her ... maybe Robbie and Lizzie will take it easily too? :confused:

I wish I had some answers for you, but remember that Josephine was found free-roaming in a large park ... probably had been scavenging dead rodents, garbage cans, and who knows what else, while trying to survive. :mad: It really angers me what some humans subject innocent kitties to ... and all we can do is try to pick up the pieces, and scoop the poops!:rolleyes: :eek: ;)

[QueenScoopalot]

It never can be easy huh? Flagyl if cut in pieces, and popped wayyy down their throats, almost always goes down pretty well. Liquified....ughhh. The same drooling happens with cyproheptadine (an appetite stimulant)...one taste of that, and it's ropes of drool. :( :rolleyes:

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by sirrahbed
baby "pancakes" (different from biscuits)

Sorry Debbie, hee,hee I know this is no laughing matter,hee,hee,hee especially if you're not feeling well either, hee,hee,hee,hee but....I just had to laugh thinking how PT's roving toilet reporter has submitted a new column here. ROTFLMBO! ;) :D :D

ahem...hee,hee.... Sorry, I sure hope these little sweeties are feeling better soon - and you too!

[kimlovescats]

Originally posted by QueenScoopalot
It never can be easy huh? Flagyl if cut in pieces, and popped wayyy down their throats, almost always goes down pretty well. Liquified....ughhh. The same drooling happens with cyproheptadine (an appetite stimulant)...one taste of that, and it's ropes of drool. :( :rolleyes:


Cyproheptadine is what we were giving Tucker ... luckily I was able to get it far back on his tongue, and he was such a good boy about swallowing them. Oh well, just a pointless comment.;)

[sirrahbed]

I did not mention it to you Kim because I figure you had enough to worry about!

Debbie you are a hoot! As roving toilet reporter, a job I take very seriously, I have a certain thoroughness to uphold!!! :D :D The *baby pancakes* have now become semi-tootsie rolls - rather pudding-like but tootsie rolls non-the-less:rolleyes: But OMEGOSH - do they stink!!! I suppose the Flagyl is inevitable but for now I am just waiting, doing poo patrol, and hoping their immune systems might fight off whatever remains of this protozoan since they are SOOO much better.;)

PS At least I have not posted pictures...







yet :p

[sirrahbed]

Posted in Meg's thread about Gabe but we have the problem back again:rolleyes: I am really frustrated. I will call the vet later today. Poor babies!! Must be a really nasty combo of protozoans:(

[jazzcat]

Oh Debbie, you've been dealing with that for over six weeks.:( It must be some super bacteria or something. I'm sorry. I sure hope it clears up soon. On the good side, it doesn't look like it's slowing them down or stunting their growth. That little Robbie looks like a chunk. He's so cute!

[Killearn Kitties]

Aww, sorry to hear the babies are still having problems!

Lots of hugs to Lizzie and Robbie! Feel better soon, sweeties.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Debbie, I'm sorry to hear that you're still having this problem.:( I can relate to you because Storm's on heavy doses of antibiotics and is also having major diarrhea. I'm now trying to feed him chicken and rice and I also gave him some canned pumpkin which he hated. Good luck and please keep us updated.

[sirrahbed]

ARGH!!http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/sauer/angry-smiley-006.gif I thought it was gone - or at least clearing up but *somebody* keeps getting it back. Right now I am pretty sure they ALL have it, even the big kitties. If that isn't enough, I think *I* have it too:o The vet did say we could get it and use handwashing and all that. I have been! But, there is no way I can avoid it I guess - since I sleep with them practically in my face:rolleyes:

Then, this morning, I watched while Robbie made perfectly nice tootsie rolls. Can this just come and go? I have been to the vet at least 7 times and spent a good $300 just on this problem. Nobody *looks or acts* sick. Lizzie is rather small though....:( ....not skinny at all but small. I dunno....what do I do next?:mad: :mad:

One positive thing....throughout all this diarrhea - nobody has gone outside of their box!!!:) Whew! Be glad for small miracles, right?

[shais_mom]

Oh Debbie - I am so sorry for all of you!!! YUCKKY!!!
Did the vet say anything about giving them a tinnnnyy amount of Immodium?

[Craftlady]

Originally posted by shais_mom
Oh Debbie - I am so sorry for all of you!!! YUCKKY!!!
Did the vet say anything about giving them a tinnnnyy amount of Immodium?

When Skinny had all his problems, We did the children's cherry Kapectate with Skinny. He got measured doses couple times a day. Sorry to say it didn't work. :(

Also, it's my experience once tootie rolls came back they never left again. I would think if Robbie can make them on regular basis just not consistant that you are making progress.

Changing to Nurto food after all the medications cured Skinny's problems. We battled it for 3 months.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Debbie, I'm so sorry to hear that you're still having problems.:( I wish I could help you but when Storm was on heavy antibiotics, kaopectate didn't work either. Good luck and please keep us updated.

[sirrahbed]

I still have three bottles with antibiotics that have not yet expired - Clindamycin/Antirobe(this one actally does not say if it is expired or not so maybe I should toss it!), Biosol and Albon. I wonder if I should start Lizzie on one of them again???

I feel like the older ones can probably fight it off on their own - but she is so small!!

She does eat the cultured yogurt and pumpkin but it does not seem to be helping. Robbie made more tootsie rolls today. There are also adult tootsie rolls in the box - I guess I need to do litter box checks more often:rolleyes: I just thought it was better.

I hate calling the vet again - I know he will say to bring them in...we just can't afford it right now:( Not this month anyway.

[jazzcat]

:( :( I'm sorry to hear you're still dealing with that Debbie. Wished I knew some magical solution.

((HUGS))

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Debbie, I'm so sorry to hear you're still dealing with this. :( Unfortunately I have no suggestions since I've never dealth with anything like this before. Maybe if you PM Kim or QSA, maybe they have more experience with it. :confused:

[catlover4ever]

Debbie....I PM'd you regarding this!!!!

[NoahsMommy]

Has your vet given them Flagyl yet? That seems stronger than the Albon, in my experience.

What about just calling the vet for a consult? Maybe he'll have some remedys you can try at home? Has he suggested any type of food to try?

Poor things. That's no fun. :(

[sirrahbed]

You know Kelly, now that I have collected myself and thought about it again - my vet said the next step WAS Flagyl. He said he would call it in to a pharmacy to have it formulated into a liguid for them. He also said it was his "last resort" drug because it tasted so nasty and the kitties would foam at the mouth and act like they hated me:p I had forgotten all about that!!

I have a couple natural remedies I am going to try as recommended by Meg - acidophilus and Pecticillin (kaolin and pectin). If those don't work, I bet I could just call in and request the Flagyl. I suspect he will want me to bring everyone by to be weighed for the dose but that should not be too expensive. Thanks for reminding me!!

[Abby&Buddy'sMom]

i dont know if this will help you or not, since you have already been to the vets. My baby , Buddy when we got him at age 7 weeks from our shelter, had runny diarreah andwhen i took him back to be checked after two weeks of it, they suggested i change the food i was feeding. I am now feeding him chicken soup for the cat lovers soul, and (knock on wood) dont have that problem anymore. I was feeding purina kitten chow...yuck! so, maybe this may help you. ps. They also said if you feed canned food..if it goes in wet, it will come out wet (mushy).