Remember Good Ol' Mary Kay?

[heinz57_79]

I found out yesterday that Mary Kay Letourneau was released from prison on the 4th. I barely remember when the whole scandal happened, I wasn't in the US at the time, but with all the documentaries, movies etc. I edcuated myself. LoL Vili is 21 or something now, and wants to have the order of no contact quashed.

I was just curious if anyone had any opinion on the whole thing. Statutory rapist, or just 2 people in love with a BIG age difference? Should the Order of No Contact be quashed?

Kind of a pointless thread, but i watched one of the MANY movies made about it, and figured wth.... :)

[Tonya]

At first, I was thinking Mary Kay, the make up lady. I was like "She's freaking old! Ewww, Statutory rape?!"

But then, I remembered the school teacher. I think any person that falls in love with a 12 year old boy is insane. Especially an older women with a younger boy. Naturally, boys are less mature then women as it is.

Now, there was another story of a 39 year old coach and a 16 year old girl. Although what he did is wrong, I could see them falling in love. Girls can be pretty mature at that age. http://www.findgarverandsmith.org/

We had a hot English teacher in highschool. One of the girls, always hung out with him. He came and watched all her sports games and whatnot. She was alot more mature and older looking then the rest of us highschool girls. Well, years later, we found out they were having an affair.

[Logan]

At first, I was thinking Mary Kay, the make up lady. I was like "She's freaking old! Ewww, Statutory rape?!"

She died a while back. :(

I wish, in regards to the other "Mary Kay" that they would just let it go and not talk about it anymore. I feel so sorry for those kids (the ones she had with him and the 4 she had with her husband). :( So sad. It really is sick, isn't it?

[leslie flenner]

I read the whole story including the biographys of mary kay and her husband. They did not want to marry in the first place. He married her because she was having her baby and she married him because her parents were staunch catholics and dad was senator (that got caught having a several years relationship and 2 children with a woman who he refused to help) and mother who rallied against ERA. When dad was caught with affair, it was a huge blow because the family had been "preaching" that a woman's place is next to her husband, having his children, etc.
She only told her mother she was pregnant because during a class in college she began bleeding. Her mother told the doctors no D and C and she was right in that decision. their was a twin. So Mary and Steve got married. moved to his home town of Ancorage Alaska where he worked at the airport checking luggage. They got in deep financial debt. He saw nothing wrong with sleeping with other women/girls. They had both dropped out of college but Mary still wanted to get a degree and teach.
Well now I realize I can not write all that I read but I can try to copy and paste the url. I do want to say, they are both consenting adults, she served her time and according to the law, that is supposed to be the end of it. According to the law, she is not supposed to be punished for the rest of her life (i'm referring to sex offender registries- which, if we're going to do that, we should require arsonist, murders, and drug dealers WHO have a higher incidence of repeated crime than sex offenders- to register as well- I would like to know if I am living next door to someone who is going to get pleasure from the sparkles flinging off of my house after he sets it on fire the day after I leave for vacation!)

[leslie flenner]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/marykay_letourneau/1.html

I do want to add that while he is all bravado at age 13 and 14 and up, and claims to have never felt abused- but in love, it is a very hard call. We need to be realistic regarding the differences between sexes when it comes to ages- males have testosterone, since the beginning of mankind, it has been ok for males to have sex with older women- the laws regarding sexual abuse can't exactly keep that in mind because SOMETIMES, there is going to be some female who pushes herself on an underage boy against his will or understanding of what sex is. And even though it is 1 in 1000, the law is there for that case. So, now, regarding adult males with underage females- yes I've read how mature girls can be for their age but here is where I discriminate- Hands off! Under age? Leave her alone! I don't care how "mature" she seems! Piss off or go to jail!

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by Tonya
At first, I was thinking Mary Kay, the make up lady.

That's what I thought of too!!!

[catnapper]

Goodness, let it be! Lets concentrate on new news! Right now, at my kid's school, one of the sports coaches will be resiging "quietly" this week because its been proven that he got several of the girls on the team "slightly drunk" and slept with them. Its a sad fact that it hjas always happeneded. It happened when I was in school, and its happening today. I don't know what will stop the teahcers sleeping with their students, but lets focus on that instead of what happened so many years ago.

[leslie flenner]

And I still feel that as mature as girls present themselves at age 13 or 15 or 17 or whatever- they are not. What is the possible sentence? Has it been discussed yet? Or does resigning quietly mean there are no charges from anyone- if the girls don't press charges themselves- the parents and school cannot in their behalf even though they are not of age to consent to sex?

[Twisterdog]

How old is the boy now?

In my opinion, if he is close to eighteen, they should let it be and let them see each other if they choose to. I mean, really, after all this time and trouble, if they still feel they love each other ... then maybe there IS something there. When he is eighteen, they can do what they want to anyway. Wouldn't it be an interesting thing if they were to marry, and have a long and happy life together? Hmmmm .....

I'm certainly not saying what she did was right in ANY way. If I was that 12 year old boys mother, I would have that woman's head on a platter! However, I don't really think it should matter that the male was the younger partner here. There are probably literally tens of thousands of cases of older men in authority positions fooling around with very young girls every year in this country, and while we are disgusted by their behavior, we as a country are not as shocked, appalled and horrified as we were by this case. Why? Because the woman was older? I don't get that at all. Yes, as a rule a 12 year old is more mature than a 12 year old boy. BUT, there are always going to be exceptions ... I know some VERY mature boys of that age, and I know some VERY immature girls. Maturity often has little to do with age or gender.

My grandparents got married when my grandpa was almost 26 and my grandma had just turned 14. They were married for almost SEVENTY YEARS and were just as much in love on the day my grandpa died as on their wedding day.

[leslie flenner]

He is 21 and has been raising the 2 children Mary Kay gave birth to by him with his mother's help. He went to court when she got out of jail on Wed and got the ban for them to have contact lifted. He said to news people he still loves her- she never said anything like that- just " we shall see". Read the biography of the story above - I am always interested in the psychology of these kind of things (in all criimes really) and this interested me.
Boycott the Olympics!

[Karen]

I find is very very sad. The young man's life was inalterably changed by her actions. He was a child, she an adult. It also strikes me that if it had been a young girl raped by her teacher at the age of 1 and impregnated, people would have been out for blood more than treating it as a curiosity. The perpetrator might still be in jail, and certainly no one would be condoning her 'getting back together" with her rapist.

The boy in question is now legally an adult with a completely screwed up life. He hasn't graduated high school even - and do you have to wonder why? He has two daughters that are being raised by his mother. He was preyed on by a sick individual, and made into a twisted celebrity because of that. I wonder how much help and counseling he has gotten. I wonder what his plans for the rest of his life are, or if he even has any.

The culture's sexual mores are so messed up in terms of expectations of boys and girls. Everyone pretty much acknowleges that girls "mature" faster than boys. Yet eeryone conversely expects boys to try to be sexually active as early as possible. Girls, on the other hand, get "reputations" and are looked down on for the same behavior.

It is a sad, sad, case and a sad story of sad human beings. I hope at least his daughters escape this legacy somehow.

[leslie flenner]

You are right. but the family and the now man don't feel preyed upon from what we have been told via media which has been pretty much NOTHING (although, I know- even though he was all machismo about it culture-wise it was "ok" yet our society says no it's not ok- then he dropped out of school etc. well, who are we to say he is miserable or not?) Keep in mind, in many cultures, the mothers raised thier grandchildren- I don't know if this was ok in his family or not- i'm not saying anything. just that I don't know. we don't know why he dropped out of school. He would have anyway for all we know.
What I am getting from Mary's lack of response is that she has recognized this as an inappropriate relationship. She may seek custudy of her children which will be tragic for them if she wants nothing to do with the father. That is what I worry about for the children. They have been seeing her which is good.
Bottom line is- as soon as he tried to kiss her, she should have left the scene and referred him to another teacher. Period. But she didn't. So now there are children to think about. And a father and a grandmother and a mother. I'll be interested to know how this turns out and hope the kids get the best deal.

[catnapper]

Leslie, in the local case, if he resigns, the girl, her parents or the school will not take any actions against him. they are offering him the oportunity to leave quietly. Which I thinkis a joke because he'll just go to another school and do the same thing there. It been rumored for a while that he did this to girls before, so she wasn't a one-and- only thing.

Why are her parents letting it go Well, *cough* she has *cough* a reputation. Last summer, she stood in the doorway of the team's summer camp naked waiting for someone to pass by. That happened to be my son, who turned around and walked away (good boy!) She also has quite a lucrative job of shoplifting hundreds of dollars worth of clothing every Friday night. She's been crying out for attention for YEARS and I think this time her parent might finally be giving it to her. (shakes head in sorrow)


As for the Mary Kay thing, Karen you are right, it HAS become a media circus. The boy has a screwed up life. As Leslie said though, you don't know if Mary Kay was the reason he dropped out. In my husband's school district, there are 4 middle schools, each with 1,300-1,500 kids. The highschool only has 3,000 kids. where'd all the others go? They dropped out starting 8th/9th grade. SAD.

[leslie flenner]

catnapper- they are offering him the opportunity to leave quietly... well isn't that nobel...? I mean IMMORAL AND ILLEGAL? If I worked for a school system or was a parent of a child in that school system or was a parent or employee of the next school system or job he goes to, I would be outraged. Naked and promiscuous doesn't matter- if your son can walk away, he is a better role model! (Good mother that you must be!!!!- be proud of yourself and messages he got from you and all other care providers- he GOT it! YAY!) Doesn't it just seem out and out wrong to "offer" him a choice when the truth is known? Well, is the girl NOT underage? Maybe that's what I'm missing here- I am assuming she is- she must not be. She will end up with HIV and a bunch of babies and lost loves, and in lots of trouble with the law in no time. Keep in mind. Most girls who act like this were taught to use sexuality to get attention. They were molested by male family members from who they needed love, respect and attention- this is the message THEY got.

[catnapper]

Sigh, it is aparently more twisted than I had thought. The guy is a teacher, but not in her school, and he is a coach, but not hers. So, he's kinda like some guy she met one night. Its not like she was around him everyday and he used that to his advantage. If that makes ANY sense! The parents won't press charges because they don't need any more embarassment from their daughter's actions. She apparently has done more stuff we didn't know about and the family is mortified by her actions. They feel that at her age, that she knew what she was doing and is responsible for her actions (she's not quite 18) The school cannot take action because he was not in any way connected to her via school.

Sigh... if it hits the papers, I'll post a link! ;)

[leslie flenner]

Ok I get it! He got off easy this time and with no record his cori will come up ok and he will get another job in a different school system (or same school system). the parents of the girls should have a restraining order on her. I forget what it's called but there is such a thing for under 18 kids who are at risk. (in MA anyway). but not your problem, I'll bet she has been the gossip of her school and your son's!!! Girls NEVER did that when I was in high school. I was brazen enough to not wear a bra one day! That was enough torment for me! (1972? Women's Liberation era- my mother was involved so it was all around me at home!) I hope this guy decides to get treatment but he won't. I hope the girl's parents get her in treatment and they need family counseling!

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by leslie flenner
He is 21 and has been raising the 2 children Mary Kay gave birth to by him with his mother's help. He went to court when she got out of jail on Wed and got the ban for them to have contact lifted. He said to news people he still loves her- she never said anything like that- just " we shall see". Read the biography of the story above - I am always interested in the psychology of these kind of things (in all criimes really) and this interested me.
Boycott the Olympics!

Wow ... he's 21 already? Time flies!!! I had no idea it had been that long!

IMO, everyone - especially the press - ought to leave them alone and see what happens. They are now two adults with two children. Yes, nasty, horrible circumstances in the past that got them to this point, no doubt ... but what good will dredging up the past do now? Especially for those kids?

Maybe they will actually manage to have a good adult relationship. Probably not, though ... and in that case they will be no different from millions of us who did not manage to make our "first love" work out for the long haul.

I think that would be a truly misguided judge who would take those kids away from him and give them to her, should it come to that. Visitation, sure ... custody, no.

[leslie]

Hope ya'll will be able to open these urls! The first one is already incuded in text below- 2nd has photos that i was unable to copy and paste so hope you can open the url to read story and see pics!

http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/30272.htm

September 14, 2004 | New York Post | The Starr Report

-- Barb's wired


Barbara Walters will bow out of "20/20" with guns blazing — she's snagged an interview with Mary Kay LeTourneau, recently released from prison after seven-and-a-half years for seducing her former sixth-grade student, Vili Fualauu (she's the mother of his two children).


The Walters/LeTourneau sit down airs Sept. 24 (10 p.m./Ch. 7) — Walters' final "20/ 20" before she leaves the broadcast to continue co-hosting "The View" and hosting prime-time specials for ABC.
================================================== =======

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_091304WABletourneausonKC.11421dd7d.html

Mary K. Letourneau's son speaks out

[leslie]

interview in 3 days. I am interested to hear what she has to say about her actions, conduct, reaction to her son saying he will never speak to her again if she marries.

[LorraineO]

Frankly,, they are adults,,, let em do what they want.... they seem to be in love so let em!!! What does it hurt you? not at all,,,,,

but thats just me,,,, I dont like the way they got together,,, it wasnt right,, but that was then,, this is now!

[Logan]

She's old enough to be his mother! She's 42 (my age) and he is 21. I just saw this article on CNN. Geez! :rolleyes:

CNN Article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6235293/)

[leslie]

did you see the interview with her on Barbara Walter's last 20/20 show? It was wholly unremarkable except after the interview, Barbara remarked to the other commentators that she had met privately with both and the relationship seemed to still be teacher- student. In that, she was taking him under her wing and planning on getting his art "career" going etc. (also could be called mother/son). Her eldest son from her 1st marriage has already said he will never speak to her again if she continues with this relationship. She however, said on 20/20, "I have a close relationship with my children".. I don't know that they would say so!

[leslie]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/12/letourneau.king/
This is long!

[LorraineO]

Originally posted by Logan
She's old enough to be his mother! She's 42 (my age) and he is 21. I just saw this article on CNN. Geez! :rolleyes:

CNN Article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6235293/)

Good!!! I think its great when two ADULTS can get together and share thier love.....

[dukedogsmom]

I saw on tv last night where they are engaged.

[carole]

I have very strong opinions on this and cases like it,and have no qualms about expressing them,this woman makes my blood boil!!! I find it disgusting to say the least, he was a 12 year old kid, IMO she is no different to a paedophile.

She is sick, how could any normal person fall in love with a 12 year old, sick, sick , sick, imagine how you would feel if it were your'e child, I have a 12 year old daughter,if a 33 year old man was interested in my daughter, I would consider him one sick individual.

My daughter's best friends sister was this age when a man aged 33 took advantage of her, he managed to even turn her against her own mother, she was infatuated, with him and would have done anything to please him, he is now serving a prison sentence, this case is no different to Mary Kay IMO, just because she says she loves him, she maniupulated him like all paedophiles do.

He now is a consenting adult, and if he chooses to be with her, well so be it,but age has nothing to do with it, just because he is now 21 does not mean he knows what he wants from life yet, heck my son is 23 turning, and he still has a lot to sort out, what directions he is heading and the poor guy had not a chance in the beginning, he was boy in a man's body, simple as that,and she took advantage of him

It may well have been considered appropriate many years ago for young brides to marry older men and in some cultures, still does not make it right, this is 2004, and we are still fighting to abolish these practices.

I feel sorry for the boy, her husband and her children, her selfishness cost them alot., and you can help who you love, there are some lines YOU JUST DON'T CROSS.!!!!!:(

P.S As for her getting pregnant to him, not once but twice, just says it all to me, another manipulative move on her part to trap this young man, has she not heard of contraception? irresponsible, coniving, calculating, and SICK!! I feel very sorry for those two young children as well.

Cases like this just make me so darn angry., it appears it is not safe to send your kids to school these days, as teachers are seducing them, and mostly female teachers too. GRR!!!:mad:

[leslie]

I forgot to add that the url I posted is the larry king interview itself. The transcript. I have not yet read it, I need to print it out and then read it. Although I did see the BW interview and well, she broke the law then but is not breaking the law now. I do feel for everyone involved, and it is an outright lie when she says she wouldn't have done what she did if she knew it was a felony. She was warned by the judge that if she does it again, the 8 year prison sentence will be imposed. She did, it was.