Annoying kid at the Dog Park.. -vent-

[GoldenRetrLuver]

We got back from the Dog Park a little while ago, and there was this kid there who couldn't have been more than six or seven, and was VERY obnoxious and annoying.

He kept running around the whole park screaming, yelling, saying nonsence, and running up to strange dogs and petting them. He mostly went up to Molly, and he wouldn't leave her alone for one minute. He was pulling her fur, chasing her around, yelling in her face, etc. Molly has lots of social issues; and kids/people doing that to her doesn't make it any better. It just makes it worse. She's also very high strung like most Collies are, and gets anxious really easily. So, I finally went up to the kid and asked nicely and polietly, "Could you please knock it off? She doesn't like strangers going up to her and petting her. I would appreciate it very much if you would stop." He looked at me, and started yelling again RIGHT in my face at Molly. :mad: At that time, I went over to the parents and said "Hi, could you control your kid, please? It's dangerous for him to be running around and going up to strange dogs; not to mention yelling." They just looked at me, and said "Okay", but hardly did anything.

My dad and I finally just decided to go to the area for larger dogs, and stayed there for the rest of the time.

I can't stand kids like that. I don't have much of a problem with the nice, polite ones, but ones like that just make my blood boil. It's possible he could have had some sort of hyperative mental problem or something, but the parents need to control him, or not bring him IMO. It just makes me not want to have any children even more than I do now..

Sorry for venting.. I'm just really upset.

[chrissycat21]

When I took Snowy to the dog park there was a little boy doing something li ke that, too. He finally got bit by one of the dogs. :-)

A few years ago when I would go there with my mom, my sisters, and Snowy, it would be my now 6 year old sister being a nut. :D

-Chrissy

[heinz57_79]

I hate kids like that. WHen they start acting like that I almost wish some dog would bite them. :rolleyes: If the parents had a cow I'd say "I told you and your kid to knock it off! Do it again, and I'll bite you myself!" ugh.... Some kids can be SO obnoxious, and the parents aren't much better!

[Toller 42]

I once went to dog park with Tango and a kid about 10 was pulling her ears and tail and even kicked her, so my mom went and asked him politely to stop and he yelled at her and told her he wasn't hurting the dog and said dogs don't have feelings anyway!:mad: Now we don't go to dog parks because my mom doesn't want that to happen again. What was even worse is that he was there with a group of friends and no parents I guess abusing dogs is what they do for fun:mad: Tango already isn't a very confident dog to begin with and has never really trusted younger kids and that just made things worse. I'm not saying that I hate kids I just don't like the ones who behave like that!

[KYS]

posted by chrissycat21:When I took Snowy to the dog park there was a little boy doing something li ke that, too. He finally got bit by one of the dogs. :-)>>>>>>>>

That is what I was thinking. It is only a matter of time
before that child gets bit.
Not all dogs like children pulling on them and yelling.
If parents can not teach their children proper doggie park manors, than they should not be taken to the park.
JMHO

[Spiritwind]

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
She's also very high strung like most Collies are, and gets anxious really easily.

I'm sorry to hear about your trouble at the dog park with the kid. But I must disagree with this statement.

Most Collies are not, and should not be high strung. I have had, I don't know, how many Collies over the years... but I currently own 5 and co-own 2. None of them are high strung dogs. I have only ever had 1 Collie that I would call high strung, she was my 2nd Collie, and not a well bred dog - very shy of new things etc..... all the other Collies I have had, have been far from it....

JMO.....

Janna

[bckrazy]

that sounds horrible! I feel so bad for Molly, hopefully that kid didnt completely traumatize her. there are always atleast a few kids running around at our dog park, and Gonzo has had kids chase him and scare him many times. I have seen dogs nip kids before, and the parents did freak out about it.

I was just thinking, it is so ironic that people expect our dogs to tolerate their kids chasing them, hurting them, and scaring them but the second our nice, well-behaved dogs growl at the kid to tell them to stop, we get screamed at or reported to the police. Ive told a few parents "this is the dog park - not the childrens park! take your kids to the playground". they usually dont listen, and look at me like im totally rude and i dont know what im talking about. Im really concerned for the kids, especially young kids, because the dogs in the park are very excited and playing hard and they could accidentally injure little children in there. dogs arent allowed off leash anywhere else, maybe they should make a law at dog parks - no kids off leash or unattended

[Tonya]

Our dog park has closed down, but I had a problem with two boys there when I used to go. A woman had a 3 and 7 year old set of terrors. I hated going to the park when they were there. Especially because they always insisted on playing with my son and I didn't want people to associate my son with them. A dog park isn't a place for a kid unless they understand the rules. I think it is very irresponsible of the parents to assume that every dog loves to be harrassed and annoyed by children. And watch, if that kid finally gets bit, the parents will blame it on the dog's owners, not their own child.

[Twisterdog]

Not only is that irritating, but very dangerous. What kind of stupid parents would let their child run around, unsupervised, with strange dogs? Stupid people shouldn't breed.

[shais_mom]

I think you just described my nephews!!!

But my sister wouldn't allow them to do that with strange dogs tho..

:rolleyes:
:p

[Tonya]

Speaking of, today a family that came to my house had kids like that. The kids asked if the retriever and pitty were friendly. I said "Sweetie, I don't know these dogs, they aren't mind, so I can't let you pet them. They might bite." The little sh$# goes "No they won't!" And shoved his hands in the gate.

Then, the other dog run, where Dusty and Roxy were, Roxy was viciously barking and growling. Which BTW, this is the first time she's done this to potential homebuyers (out of about 85 people) and they looked way ghetto. She's so smart! So I REPEATED don't pet my dogs, they aren't very friendly. (Although they are, but I'd rather strange kids assume they're unapproachable.) And once again, he shoved his hand in the fence.

[binka_nugget]

:( Poor Molly. I hope she isn't too badly tramatized from that experience.

Kaedyn wouldn't tolerate it for a second! He doesn't like strange people touching him... run to pet him and you're asking for a nip. I've never seen young kids at our dog park though. I think we have a kids park not even half a block away so that might be why.

[Aspen and Misty]

Thats ONE of the reasons I don't go to dog parks.

Ash

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Spiritwind,
No, Molly wasn't the best bred dog; probably why she's like this. She wasn't socialized until she was five months old, when she came to live with us. Her "breeder" kept her in a wire kennel in a dog house in the back of the yard before we picked her up. She's gotten better over the time we've had her, but Collies are very sensitive dogs. They don't forget anything; bad experiences, etc. At least in my experience.

She's okay now, but I could tell she was very upset when all this was happening. I'm actually surprised she didn't nip the kid. She's never bitten a child, or anyone before; but than again I've never met a kid stupid enough to go up to a strange dog and torment them. :rolleyes::(


Originally posted by Twisterdog
Stupid people shouldn't breed.

That's EXACTLY what I said to my mom when I told her what happened; she agreed.

This is the first time something like this has happened. Most kids that go there ask about Molly, if it's okay for them to pet her, etc. and I just tell them no, because she's very shy, and she won't come up to strangers when you call her. Those are the kinds of kids I can tolerate, and that I respect.

[chrissycat21]

I think Snowy has bitten a kid once. It was my sister's friend and she just wouldn't leave Snowy alone. When Snowy went to her cage to hide, the kid pulled her out by the tail. My mom was telling her to leave Snowy alone. She wouldn't. I swear that kid is just asking for trouble. After Snowy went through 2 hours of fur yanking, tail yanking, getting treats taken out of her mouth and flung across the yard, kicking, and screaming when she wouldn't come to the little girl, Snowy bit her. It wasn't hard, I don't think it broke the skin but it was enough to scare the girl.

I don't really take Snowy to dog parks any more because she is afraid of all the larger dogs since once there when she was a little puppy this huge Akito attacked her. The owner just stood there and said 'Its not Maggie's fault.' So now when we get near the dog park Snowy gets a little afraid.

-Chrissy

[caseysmom]

Please go to http://www.petfinder.org/ and read the article "big heart". There are lots of great kids at my dog park including mine. It just disturbs me all the kid haters on here...everyone on here was once a child.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by caseysmom
Please go to http://www.petfinder.org/ and read the article "big heart". There are lots of great kids at my dog park including mine. It just disturbs me all the kid haters on here...everyone on here was once a child.

When did I say that I "hated" all kids? If you read the last paragraph of my post, you would see that I don't. I have had no desire to have any children, ever, and I expect that I never will. In my most recent post on this thread, I said that there are kids that visit the Dog Park, that I have no problem with.

I'm still a kid myself; I'm only 14. But, my parents taught me Dog Park manners. The parents of this one need to do the same.. or most likely the kid will get biten by a dog one of these days if he continues doing this.

I can't put up with kids or any person bothering and tormenting my dog. Sorry.

[caseysmom]

I don't have much of a problem with the nice, polite ones, but ones like that just make my blood boil.

Sorry I just found this disturbing. Its not just this thread I have read lots of them here hopefully everyone values human children over animals.

[ILoveMyAbbyGirl]

Personally, I value my furkids just as much as I value my siblings, cousins, family. You need to understand that we are all crazy about animals here, and maybe a kid doesn't belong in a dog park. It's a dog park, not a kid park. This kid wasn't "up to date" on the manners you need to attend a dog park. Julie never said she hated kids, but I can understand where she's coming from. I would DESPISE a kid screaming in my dog's face. That would make me incredibly mad, and yeah, I would tell the kids parent. Dogs don't need to be put through the stress of having an obnoxious kid screaming in their face in a place where they are supposed to be enjoying themselves.

Kids don't belong in a dog park unless they have the manners to ask if they can come near someones dog. Plain and simple, this child shouldn't have been running around like a maniac and bothering dogs.

[Tina]

I know I said that I was taking a break from Pet Talk but I just needed to say something.

I have two kids of my own ages 4 years old and 8 months old. I value my fur kids and feather kid just as much as my two skinkids. They are not allowed to start yelling in the dogs face.

We do not have any dog parks around here if we did I would not go for these reasons. I DO Not want some strange kid come up to my dogs pulling on them and yelling at them. I would yelling right back at the kid. I do not have the patience for that type of thing. So I am glad we don't have any dog parks.

[caseysmom]

I love my animals very much but there is no way they are equal to my children sorry but to me that is absurd....maybe I don't belong here.

[Uabassoon]

There are lots of great kids at my dog park including mine.

Yes there are, but there are also a lot of bad kids there. The problem is that a lot of the time the kids misbehave because the parents don't do anything about it. So if the child is bothering your dog talking to their parent usually doesn't fix the problem.

I'm also very bothered by people who bring in toddlers and let them walk around. I would always feel scared to let Missy run and enjoy herself for fear that she could knock the baby down and they I would get slapped with a lawsuit. The dog park just isn't a good place for loose toddlers or misbehaved children.

I would never bring a dog that to go play at a schoolground during their recess hour. Kids have their own places to play and their own part of the park. It's just common sense that the dog park is where the dogs get to run around, not the children.

[Tina]

Originally posted by caseysmom
I love my animals very much but there is no way they are equal to my children sorry but to me that is absurd....maybe I don't belong here.

Did I say they were equal "NO" I said "I value my furkids and featherkid just as much as my two skinkids"

I do not think them as "equals" but I do love them just about the same as my two kids. My love for two daughters is alot different then for my furkids and featherkid. It is just really hard to explain. All I know is I love all of them!

I am now leaving this convo. I have nothing else to say.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by caseysmom
I love my animals very much but there is no way they are equal to my children sorry but to me that is absurd....maybe I don't belong here.

I have no patience for kids, or anybody for that matter coming up and tormenting my dog. Maybe as a parent you have a different opinion, but my dogs are my life, and are like my children. I'm more upset at the parents for just sitting back and watching him continue to do it, instead of disciplining him.

Maybe if you were in my position yesterday, you would understand where I'm coming from..

[caseysmom]

I have no problem with you not wanting misbehaved children at the dog park...although I have not encountered that at my dog park it sounds like it could be annoying if not dangerous. Sorry its hard for me to relate I have an 11 year old who has already taken veterinary classes at the university here in my town, she will clean up caseys diarreah when I am at work and call me and tell me how her eyes are and how her nose feels. She also volunteers at the spca.

[Denyce]

caseysmom

Then you have a special daughter whom you have raised correctly. Major Kudo's for you. Unfortunately just because you have a great child doesn't discount all the experiences the rest of us have with ill-mannered, ill-behaved brats that should be disciplined by an actual parent not someone who is trying to be the kid's friend instead.

There are a number of us on here that don't particularly care for children as a whole and you know what.......that is ok. WE are not horrible people for that. You have your opinion on children and I have mine. I prefer not to be around children. Doesn't mean I am hateful towards them. I have even given horseback riding lessons and the children tend to really like me. *shrug* It is because I don't treat them like helpless children but like small adults who have to be responsible for their own actions. But I still don't like being around them and live my life in a way as to avoid children.

As far as you belonging here. If you love animals and are tolerant of other's opinions then you belong.

Denyce

[caseysmom]

Well its a good thing everybody doesn't want children...we do have population problems:p Don't get me wrong my animals are definetely like one of my children. Actually my kids say I love casey more than them but casey needs less discipliine:D

[dukedogsmom]

I knew I would hear it eventually. I was just waiting for the "kid hating" comment to come along. Perhaps we should specify that we don't hate kids, we detest brats that aren't properly raised. I wouldn't have tolerated near some of the stuff that some of the other people made their dogs endure. Just because they're animals doesn't mean they should have to be punished and hurt because some brat and their so called "parent" can't or won't teach them how to properly behave in society. Too bad the village really can't raise a child now because those kids need to be taught compassion and need proper discipline when needed. Unless they're not walking or talking, they can be taught the differences between right and wrong and that should start as soon as possible. So stop with the "we hate all kids" talk. There are bad apples in every age group, etc.

[caseysmom]

I think I have a right to my opinion.

[cali]

EVERYONE has a right to their opinion.

I personaly hold animals higher then most people and equal to a few. that is MY opinion, certainly not evreybodys that I know very well.

[ILoveMyAbbyGirl]

I sense a problem here... what is it? One or the other.


Don't get me wrong my animals are definetely like one of my children.




I love my animals very much but there is no way they are equal to my children sorry but to me that is absurd.

[dukedogsmom]

Originally posted by caseysmom
I think I have a right to my opinion.
Yes you do and I've stated mine just as you've stated yours. But, you shouldn't be calling everyone child haters. That's way too general, as I tried to explain in the last entry.
I agree with cali and binka_nugget

[binka_nugget]

To each their own. ;)


Originally posted by cali
I personaly hold animals higher then most people and equal to a few. that is MY opinion, certainly not evreybodys that I know very well.

Hah! Me too! I, personally, have very little patience for kids.. or people for that matter. My furkids have taught me to be more patient around people but.. still, people don't even come close to my furkids. I don't *hate* all kids.. I just don't like being around them when I can avoid it. :p ;)

[DJFyrewolf36]

Im just adding my two cents here...

I am one of those people who value an animals life and livelihood over most people. There is a distinct reason for this, however. People decide of thier own free will to do malicious things to other people. Animals don't do this the overwhelming majority of the time. Now I agree there is the argument that animals are "dumber" than people and don't have things like emotions etc. There are studies out there that suggest that some animals *domestic animals even* are higher on the intelegence * in both "smart" intelegence and emotional intelegence* food chain than some people graduating public school. Now don't think Im some sort of freaksish people hater just because I prefer the company of animals. Animals simply either lack the ability to or decide not to act in a manner that is annoying. If I chose to associate with beings that dont P**s me off, than thats my right.


I am of the firm belief that you do not own an animal. You CARE for the animal providing for it in a manner as one would a child. You feed the animal, you provide it shelter, keep it clean, make sure it behaves in a manner that is acceptable etc etc. The only difference is with a human child you can boot the little snot out the door at a cirtian age, with an animal you cant. Ownership implies that the animal is a thing. People *ok most people, but there ARE execptions* don't get emotional over "things" do they? This kind of tells you something about how people feel about pets. Pets in a way ARE children, if you care for something and tend to its needs long enough you will feel an emotional attachment of some kind. I fail to see how that is absurd.

I for one would be furrious if someone decided to harrass my dog or my child, and I would be furrious equally. Thats just how I feel.

I apologise in advance for any remarks anyone finds offensive.

[caseysmom]

Originally posted by ILoveMyAbbyGirl
I sense a problem here... what is it? One or the other.

My point is that I take care of my animals and love them like they are one of my children BUT they are not equal to my human children....sorry some folks are really nutty on here I am outta here. and by the way...YOU ARE ALL HUMANS AND WERE ONCE CHILDREN...AND YOU ARE REALLY RUDE TO ME MAYBE IF I WAS A DOG HMMMMMM

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by caseysmom
My point is that I take care of my animals and love them like they are one of my children BUT they are not equal to my human children....sorry some folks are really nutty on here I am outta here.

TRUE, we were all once children. Heck, I still am. But, I was brought up to show RESPECT to animals, and I know I would never, ever behave like that little brat did; or I would be in big trouble. Why are we nutty? I never said I had a problem with ALL children; maybe you should re-read it.


Originally posted by caseysmom
YOU ARE ALL HUMANS AND WERE ONCE CHILDREN...

Like I said, your opinion may differ from ours, because you have human children. BUT, "just because it's a child that was doing this", does that make it right? NO. Children who are mean to animals and are not disciplined for it, can grow up to be "bad adults".

Like Twisterdog said, stupid people shouldn't breed.

[chocolatepuppy]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by caseysmom
YOU ARE ALL HUMANS AND WERE ONCE CHILDREN...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And when I was a child I was made to behave!Too many children today(not all) are brats!I prefer not to be around brats! And my animals are my children.

[Kfamr]

I don't see how anyone here could "hate kids" when a majority of those being accused of such ARE kids. :p


And I don't see how any of us are being rude to YOU when YOU are the one calling us absurd and nutty.

[spunkymeow]

Those who do not appreciate children, are selfish people that have not yet grown up themselves. Those who do not appreciate animals, do not appreciate any kind of life, period. And probably never will. That's strictly my opinion. Do not judge me for it. I respect everyone here at Pet Talk.

Thanks.

[chocolatepuppy]

I am not a selfish person. ;)

[Denyce]

Excuse me spunkymeow? I am a selfish person who hasn't grown up because I prefer not to be around children?:eek: :rolleyes:

You are obviously someone who hasn't had the type of experience with children that I have had or you wouldn't have made such a narrow minded statement as that.

I don't tell alot of my life on this board because that is not the type of person I am. But here is one aspect of that.

My mother divorced my father when I was 18. She remarried into a family of sociopaths. Not all children are born full of sweetness and light. Some are born evil, some are born not totally evil but without the ability to FEEL right from wrong. They do not have a concious. They know in their minds what is right from wrong but they can't feel it so they never feel any guilt for the pain they cause other living beings. I say it that way because it often starts as animal abuse.

Now please...understand this...I am not saying ALL CHILDREN ARE EVIL. I am saying that some are born "wrong" and some aren't. Some are made that way by environment rather than genetics.

My stepfather is a mild sociopath and an abuser. He wasn't a physical abuser but an emotional one. He used to love to torment my mother. When his life was feeling out of control for some reason he would find ways to make her miserable. He would do something simple like take her glasses from the nightstand or endtable where she had left them and hide them for HOURS. Sometimes days. Then when he got tired of his little game and had gathered all the joy he could watching her tear the house apart looking for her glasses he would make them appear right where he had taken them in plain sight. You have no idea of how cruel that is until you have lived it.
My oldest step brother was slightly worse. One day when he was sixteen he ran over a kitten with his bicycle. He came home crying. Not because he hurt the kitten but because people who saw it were calling him a monster. When asked about the accident he said the kitten was in his way. He didn't think it was fair that people thought he was horrible. They could see he could have avoided the kitten but chose not too. He didn't care about the kitten. He said it should have gotten out of his way on the sidewalk.
My youngest step brother was the worst. He was diagnosed as having a conduct disorder with undersocialized aggression. In other words he is a murdering pyschopath. He tried to kill my 2 year old cousin when he was only 7. He cut the hair off of a 4 year old girl so close to the scalp that he cut the scalp. He snuck into my mom's bedroom at night and hit her over the head with a baseball bat. Luckily he was still young and not strong enough to do permanent damage. They all had to start locking their doors at night. He tried tripping his father through a sliding glass door. He also would turn on the gas on the stove and blow out the pilots at night. He was institutionalized as a danger to society at the age of NINE!!!!!
Don't now think to attack as to why nothing was done to help this disgusting individual. They went through EXTENSIVE counsling with him starting at the age of FOUR.
Last I heard he was in New Mexico studying Pre-med. He is smart enough to become a very good physician. He can now kill and not get caught. He never changed he just got better at hiding what he was doing and making it look like others were doing it. Because all of this started when he was a minor it is all locked away. None of it touching his adult life. Nothing has to be reported. We don't know where he is now. He doesn't know where my mom and I are.
There was only one decent person that came out of that family. He is my step fathers nephew. But then...he was adopted so he doesn't share any genetic material with them.

So don't tell me I am selfish because I choose not to APPRECIATE all children. I APPRECIATE those that are decent, kind, gentle children. I don't just assume that because a child is a child that it is worth my time, effort or caring. There are many many children out there that are good. caseysmom's daughter sounds like she is one of them. I know that there are many others. But......there are also many out there like my step family. They can look like little angels with blond curls and dimples yet they have nothing good inside. I know this. I have lived it. I could go into much greater detail but there is a length limit and this isn't what this thread is about. They are the Hitlers and the Jeffery Daumers and the rest of those ilk.

Denyce

[Tonya]

Originally posted by Denyce
...Now please...understand this...I am not saying ALL CHILDREN ARE EVIL. I am saying that some are born "wrong" and some aren't. Some are made that way by environment rather than genetics.

My stepfather is a mild sociopath and an abuser. He wasn't a physical abuser but an emotional one....

I really don't want to jump in this debate,but I have one thing to throw in. I don't think that any child is born wrong. It sounds like your stepfather probably screwed them up.

[Denyce]

I am sorry. But I believe some children are born wrong. Just like there are physical differences there are also emotional ones. Not all sociopath children come from bad parents or even parents with the same problem and not all children that are born to abusive parents become sociopaths. Annnddd...not all abusers are sociopaths. Some just have control issues. You can't lump anything all into one catagory or another and you can't exclude that some children are just missing a crucial componant to their emotional health when born. Some manage to overcome this and still go on to lead good lives. But many do not.

The entire family of my stepfather is this way to some extent or another. The grandparents, the sisters, the children. Like I said..the only one who wasn't is the nephew whom my stepfathers sister adopted. He is a truly good person raised by these people and still managed to become a loving husband and father who wouldn't hurt anything intentionally. But he doesn't have the same genetic material.

It is an issue that so many people don't want to believe because they want to believe that SOMETHING could be done to save these "poor innocent souls". But sometimes there are things that are NOT in our control and never will be. Unless you have lived it you can't possibly understand how truly terrifying it is. I have met families torn to pieces by a child that they can't trust not to try and kill them. I didn't know these people as well as my step family but on the surface they didn't appear to be anything other than parents that only wanted the best for this child they created. There was extensive individual counsling, group therapy, family counsling...etc etc etc. I understand your wanting to think that no child could be born wrong, that it is all environment.....arrgh...I am not going to say anymore. I lived it, you didn't.

[swimma253]

Originally posted by cali
EVERYONE has a right to their opinion.

I personaly hold animals higher then most people and equal to a few. that is MY opinion, certainly not evreybodys that I know very well.

I agree. Now dont get me wrong... I love little kids... I think they are cute. But I DO NOT love misbehaved little moster kids. They tend to drive me nuts... as they do most people. I should not be one to talk... becaue I myself am still a kid. I am only 14.

I myself... hold animals to a higher position than people. They dont talk back, they always listen, most are tolerant of allot of things and just plain friendly. Their do things in ways that we cant becaues they cant talk. They understand our feelings, although they do not understand our language.

Maybe my opinion would be different if I had a child of my own. But right now that is just how I feel.

Carly

[ParNone]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I haven't had any issues with kids to that extreme. I've actually had worse experiences with other dogs. The day those 2 Great Pyrnees attacked Oz, I felt helpless, because as I focused on one, Oz was being attacked by the other. Only the owner stepping in and grabbing her dogs saved us. Now if it's an unruly kid, I just remove my dogs from the situation. I've had kids at my house and if I feel like they're getting to be too much for the dogs, I put the dogs in the bedroom. Problem solved. Inconvenient yes, but better for the dogs in the long run.

Par...

[Smilla]

"Those who do not appreciate children, are selfish people that have not yet grown up themselves."

I never understood why people who choose to remain childless are called selfish. If humans were in danger of becoming extinct, sure there might be some reason for it, but we're hardly in danger of that--on the contrary, we just keep on multiplying!

[shais_mom]

I guess until we walk a mile in someone else's shoes we really don't know anything about that person's life.
It sounds like Denyce has had experiences that I can't even imagine. And the thought that her stepbrother is becoming a Dr scares the bejesus right out of me.
I really don't think this thread got rude towards Caseysmom, I think it was her that became rude calling us Nutty and whatever.
I had a nice normal bland childhood in the middle of podunk country Ohio. My parents have been married 38 years and counting and I babysat my cousin's and neighborhood kids. The only time my rosecolored glasses saw anything 'weird' was when I saw one of the kids playing with himself.
My nephews are completley different from the way my sister and I were. I don't know if it is the difference b/n boys and girls or what. Some of the stuff they pull makes me extremely glad I don't have children. They are the best birth control that I don't have to pay for. My oldest nephew who is 7 threw a screwdriver at my mom when she told him to pick up his toys. The younger one that will be 4 next month, his favorite thing to do is to run off into traffic in the middle of a huge parking lot. I really think they need to be tested for ADD, my mom has told my sister/brother in law this and b/c they are educated they don't see it, don't want to see. My mom taught kindergarten and first grade for 36 years, I think she knows what she is talking about.
I don't hate kids. I despise the little brats that beat me with a sucker when I am xraying them, the 12 year old that spits a pill out all over the nurses clothes after they put it in Jello so he could take it. But what I dislike even MORE, is the parents that sit there on their welfare covered a$$ and let them do it. Or the parents that tell me - get your hands of her don't touch them when xraying them is all about touching them.
I have just decided that most people are nuts. Not just kids!!!

IMHO

[K9soul]

I think both sides have perhaps read a bit too much into the "opposing side's" viewpoints. I think Julie's anger and outrage was directed at the parents of this child, who were not only allowing the child to torment the dogs, but allowed him to be in danger of being bitten due to his provoking behavior. It seems to me they had no care for either the dogs or their own child in this instance, disturbing on both accounts.

I was surprised when I saw the "kid-hater" comment, it seemed to me people were complaining about badly behaved children, the same way I have seen threads here before about badly behaved dogs, and I saw nothing to indicate that anyone hated children or felt there were no well behaved children.

On the other hand, I don't think anyone stated that people who choose not to have children are bad people. I think anyone would agree if a person does not wish to have and raise children, then it is best that they don't. I don't think, or at least I would hope, that someone would judge someone else in a poor light just because they prefer not to have children. I know personally my husband and I have no desire to have children, for many reasons. That does not mean I hate children or don't appreciate them. Like Denyce mentioned, young kids actually often seem drawn to me, which has always puzzled me because I never coo and coddle them the way a lot of other adults seem to, but maybe that is exactly why they feel drawn to me, because I treat them with respect and don't talk down to them.

As far as projecting dislike to a child who is acting bratty, I think it is human nature, the same way a person would feel dislike towards an obnoxious, aggressive, trouble-causing dog rather than the owner, even if the owner is really to blame. It isn't always fair which way the anger or dislike is directed but that it is human nature to be repelled by the actual source of unpleasantness.

When I was growing up, my Mom's best friend had a West Highland white terrier that was indeed a terror. She jumped all over guests, snarled and snapped at your toes if you got near her eating area in the kitchen, even bit at my toes under the table while we were eating dinner once because her owner, who was a wonderfully nice lady, spoiled her rotten and gave into her every whim. There was no question that Button was alpha there. She fed her scraps while she ate and cooked, and did not enforce herself as pack leader. The dog was a misery to be around. I really came to dislike the dog, even though it really wasn't the dog's fault, I couldn't help it. Not only that but, being younger and less knowledgable, I came to feel dislike for the breed even, she was so unpleasant to be around. Of course I later learned that my prejudice was misplaced. I imagine though if I had come to a pet board and expressed my distaste and dislike for that dog, some might have jumped to the conclusion that I was a dog hater, which couldn't have been farther from the truth.

Honestly, that seems to me to be what has happened here.

[Smilla]

You're probably right, but the "selfish" remark (and I'm not attacking the person who made it, as I hear it all the time) truly has always puzzled me. Even if a person plainly dislikes kids, how is that a selfish act--how does it hurt anyone or take anything away from anyone else? It may not be a positive thing, but I don't see how it's selfish.

But then, this probably isn't the proper venue for me to seek my answers, so I will say no more on the topic. :)

[caseysmom]

Okay I came creeping back here to clarify myself. There are lots of nice folks here. First I don't like obnoxious kids and it looks like I am defending them, I am not. Second, think about it like this...you love your dog(s) and somebody starts a few threads about irritating dogs on a kid site...it kinda ticks you of. third, what I thought was rude was when someone looked like I was contradicting myself but I wasn't being all that polite either so oh well.

Anyway sorry if I offended anyone I just love all living things and I get mad when any racial group or anyone or say pit bulls...etc get stereotyped...I guess I don't like stereotypes is what I am trying to say.

[Denyce]

Glad you snuck (creeped) back. Welcome:)

[Tonya]

Originally posted by caseysmom
Second, think about it like this...you love your dog(s) and somebody starts a few threads about irritating dogs on a kid site...it kinda ticks you of.

Good analogy and welcome back. :D

[spunkymeow]

I definetly feel this thread has gone a little off track from the original post. I posted my opinion and there was really no need to be snapped back at. I also stated that I respect everyone here at Pet Talk and their opinions. I also stated that what I wrote was my opinion and strictly my opinion.

As far as having experience with children, I have a lot. I have 6 siblings. Four are younger than myself. I have many, many cousins whom I have grown up with, babysat, etc. So, where Im coming from, probably stems from the way I was raised. I was brought up catholic, and was taught that women were created to reproduce. Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself (exluding taking care of animals). I love my cats with all my heart. They are apart of me, but not like a child would be. However, the difference between the two, they are of equal importance and equally loved very much.

Like I said in my previous post - THIS IS MY OPINION. Since we are giving our opinions, I am very entitled to mine, and would appreciate it, if I am not badgered for it. ( i wont mention any names)

Thanks

[K9soul]

I find it hard to comprehend that analogy. Wouldn't nuns then be considered selfish? I had thought you meant by not feeling an appreciation of children, people were in your opinion selfish, but it does seem like in your second post that if a woman chooses not to have children then she is destined to always be caught up only in her own needs.

I was raised Catholic, as was my husband, and this is not something that I was raised to feel at all.

But then, my personal opinion is that it seems rather close minded any time someone places a stipulation or generalization on others, such as "if they don't do this, then they are going to be this way." Some of the most giving and least self-centered people I have ever known were people who did not have children. One could even say something like people who don't have children have more of an awareness of others around them since they aren't caught up in their own family's wants and needs. But that would be just as generalizing as the no children/selfishness idea. I think it's safer to just take each person on an individual basis without making judgements based on how they live their lives..

These observations are my opinions to that idea, and are not stated in any attempt to "badger" you about yours.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by spunkymeow
Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that all.

I know plenty of people who haven't had children, and they're alot more fun to be around then some who have had kids, and they're far from selfish. I find that a completely absurd statement to make, even though that is your opinion. Choosing to have or not have children shouldn't define if you're "selfish". There are just some who are not cut out to be parents.


Originally posted by K9soul
I think it's safer to just take each person on an individual basis without making judgements based on how they live their lives..

Ditto, Jess. I agree.

[Tonya]

Originally posted by spunkymeow
Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself (exluding taking care of animals).

I am a mother and I love my child to death, but I totally disagree with you. I do not think that everyone needs to (or should) reproduce. And I don't think that childbirth is what it takes to become a person.

For myself personally, I couldn't imagine anything other then being a mom. If I'd chosen not to have children, I may have missed out on some wonderful perks that comes with parenting, but I would have been the same caring person that I am today.

[shais_mom]

I think saying a person is selfish b/c of blah blah blah is one of the meanest things I have ever heard.
What about people that want to have children but can't. It isn't their choice to be 'selfish'. If you know a person that suffers from infertility you wouldn't say that. Then you have people who don't give a rat's ass about their kids keep reproducing like bunnies b/c they get taken away and they want a kid to keep. We had a young couple a few years ago that came from a neighoring county, said they were from out of state, gave fake names, etc, b/c their other 2-3 kids had been taken away and they wanted to keep this one. :mad:

[anna_66]

Originally posted by spunkymeow
I was brought up catholic, and was taught that women were created to reproduce. Women who do not reproduce are 'selfish', meaning that they will never know what it is truly like to not be concerned with anyone but oneself (exluding taking care of animals).
Question...are you just saying you were raised like this or that you truly believe that women who do not reproduce are selfish?

I don't/can't have any children. So I hope you don't bunch all people who don't/can't have children in the same category.
Because if I could I would definately have a child of my own, but I wouldn't condemn someone if they decided not to have any. Some people shouldn't be parents because they don't want to be.

Hope I didn't upset you:)

[trayi52]

I have been reading this thread from the start, and was not going to say anything. But now I have to say something. I am a mother and a grandmother. I CHOSE to be! Now that being said, Anna, it is a shame you could not have children, and I am very sorry. But, Anna, you Have Huney, Angus, and Roxey to help fill that void. You are right, there are some people that don't want children, that DOES NOT make them selfish people. If a woman does not want children, then she should have that right NOT to have children, without somebody judging them and saying they are selfish! That is the most rediculus thing I have ever heard!

We can't all have the same likes and dislikes, God made us to be different! Gave us different talents. Please don't get these good and very sweet people wrong, by classifying them as selfish! Maybe you are selfish, by claiming these people are selfish. They have chosen a great calling, to raise pets, and these pets can be and are like their children to them! I have very good friends that don't want children, and never will have children, but have the utmost respect for children.

So don't go judging them because they don't want to have children. I love these people, they have stuck by me during hard times and said things that have snapped me out of my depression, and I just will not listen to such nonesense, they are not selfish!

Willie

[caseysmom]

I may be missing something but who specifically said someone is selfish for not having children...who even said someone should have children...I have looked and can't find that post.

[Karen]

I am closing this thread because it has gotten far off the original topic. Please respect each other here, and remember every memebr of Pet Talk is a decent person and deserves to be treated as such. Go hug - or pat - a pet.