My dog bit my little brother again!

[SherryAR]

Our dog who is not neutered, 4 years old, and half german shepherd/ half rottweiler (70 pounds) just bit my 11 year old brother for the third time. The first time was about 2 years ago. The last time was about 2 months ago and caused an emergency room visit. This time around it was borderline emergency room, and we've decided to treat his wound at home. (No bleeding this time, but a big mark and lots of pain). Is this cause to take action? He's getting neutered within the next couple weeks and has had no training or obedience school. He has never attacked anyone else and is usually the most loving cut dog ever. In all biting incidences it was over a bone or food. The boy was moving too close to Jake (the dog) and he made a one second charge in which he snapped his mouth a couple times--and growling as he quickly bit him a couple times. What should we do?:confused:

[binka_nugget]

I'd enroll him into obedience classes. It sounds like he's food possessive. Obedience classes may help him accept his position as the lowest ranking dog. Right now, it sounds like he thinks he's a higher position than your brother. If it were the other way around, the dog would allow him to take the bone/toy/food away without a problem. Definately look into obedience classes.

I also suggest looking into NILIF (nothing in life is free). You can find lots of sites about it on google. It's not a very pushy way of making your dog accept a lower position. Basically, all food must be earned. It can be earned through a sit, down, etc. All pats on the head have to be earned. Basically, everything has to be earned (hence "nothing in life is free"). If you decide to go for NILIF, I suggest having your brother do the feeding, treats, etc. He may not have a problem with everyone else (since you mentioned he has never done this to anyone else) but he may think he's still at a higher level than your brother.

[LorraineO]

that sounds like a classic case of a dominance problem... if the previous biting incidents were due to the same reasons,, its defiantley dominance,,, I suggest classes of course,, but a good way for your brother to tell the dog HE is higher on the totem pole,, have him attach the dogs leash to his waist and lead him about the house as he goes about his usual business. Do not pay any attention to him the whole time but offer plenty of praise after say,,, 20 mins of this everyday for the next while.. Also,,, do you place the dogs food out all day or do you have a certain time for feeding? Putting the dogs dish down all day is bad.. Have your brother feed the dog,, 2 times a day placing the dish down AND taking it away each time. Put the food out for no omre then 10 mins or so. Always make the dog WORK for everything,,, There are NO FREE LUNCHES as the saying goes.. A mere sit down,, or giving of the paw is good,, but always make em work.

Hope this helps some...

[lv4dogs]

I agree that he is food aggressive. I would get him neutered asap & enroll into obedience asap. I also agree w/ the NILIF and maybe even consult w/ a behavorist.
Here is a link that may help a bit:
http://www.doglogic.com/possess.htm

[sammy101]

My dalmation had the same problem,but that was only with bones,but she would only nip and bite and growl at you if you stuck your hand near her bones,and she didnt even like the vaccuum(spell??)coming near her bones.We just left her alone when she was chewing on her bones,but you should get him neutered.and you should take him to obeidiance(spell??) class,too,that might help some.

[Bluemoon]

When a 70 lbs dog is bitting a child...this is a very serious situation.

First off.. you should NOT tie the dog to the child....
someone is going to get hurt...most likely the child.

This is potentially very dangerous advice. I repeat please do not tie this dog to the child. Do not do this.

You need to contact your vet, tell them the problem and ask for a referral to an animal behaviourist. This is a serious situation and you need professional help from those trained in this area.

Until someone is called in to assess the dog and situation, explain to the family what is going on, offer their opinions on the risks of contiuned interaction of this dog and the child and train the family how to deal with this dog...
.... the dog should not be allowed loose in the same area as the child is in. Another words put the dog in the back yard and keep the child out of the yard.

This child has a legal right to be protected from this dog.

Deb Kelly

[LorraineO]

Deb...

I didnt give the advice lightly,, and the dog isnt vicious in my opinion,, it was over 2 yrs ago and then 2 months ago,, its not like the dog is attacking him everyday,,, I still say its a simple case of dominance,, dont be too quick to label the dog as vicious.......that is a for too common parctice. It was probably quite a innocent reaction to some situation.... I would think if the owners thought the dog was a BAD EGG,,, they would have been rid of it a long time ago. Placing a lead between the dog and person is common and effective.

Of course, common sense says to be careful,,, but with an 11 yr old, I think it would be fine to do this. With the watchful eye of an adult.... Just my humble opinion...

[Bluemoon]

I never said the dog was vicious. But it clearly is in a dominate role with the child and has repeated a very effective behaviour.. and will likely repeat it again.

The law protects the child from dog bites.

I would also add that you are giving advice to a child who is asking questions concerning a sibling younger brother...these are not adults we are talking to, these are children.

I personally would not like to be the person who allowed a child to remain in a situation that had already proven to be dangerous.

Nor be a person who is suggesting to a sibling (child) of another child that she have her brother now try to gain dominace over a dog who has clearly demonstrated it is very capable of hurting the child.

Dont you think advice of this sort should not be given to minors without their parents being invloved?

I find it unthinkable that someone who has not even met the dog or the children involed or the parents, would ever think to give any advice, except for the need to protect the child and get professional help.

The parents of this child need to take action to protect the child, the law demands it. What happens with the dog in the end is secondary to this.

They need professional help, not chat room advice.
Deb

[Bluemoon]

I think we can discuss the on the site and it does not need to go private. If you feel I am wrong then say so publically.

This dog is a danger to this child....how many times must it bite him before you will be willing to sa y that. 5 times, 10 times, until it puts the kid in the hospital?? To me one bit of this nature is enough and then it is time for professional help.

I think it is wrong to tell a child, to tell another child to tie a dog (that has already bitten the chi ld three times) to his belt...OK

I think you are giving foolish advise to two children about a bitting dog that could lead to serious injury. You have not met the dog nor the children nor have the parents consent to be advising them in how to handle a do g that bits.

"People like me" have resecued and rehomed many many dogs with dominate bitting issues, and I say it is NOT a job for a couple of kids to work on with some internet chat for guidence.

Think about this..just suppose you have guess wrong and the kid does tie this dog to his belt and the dog really goes for the kid and the kid and dog can't get away from each other because he is tied to the dog ...

I have said my piece, they need professional help.

Think as you please.

Debb

[stacwase]

Originally posted by Bluemoon
I never said the dog was vicious. But it clearly is in a dominate role with the child and has repeated a very effective behaviour.. and will likely repeat it again.

The law protects the child from dog bites.

I would also add that you are giving advice to a child who is asking questions concerning a sibling younger brother...these are not adults we are talking to, these are children.

I personally would not like to be the person who allowed a child to remain in a situation that had already proven to be dangerous.

Nor be a person who is suggesting to a sibling (child) of another child that she have her brother now try to gain dominace over a dog who has clearly demonstrated it is very capable of hurting the child.

Dont you think advice of this sort should not be given to minors without their parents being invloved?

I find it unthinkable that someone who has not even met the dog or the children involed or the parents, would ever think to give any advice, except for the need to protect the child and get professional help.

The parents of this child need to take action to protect the child, the law demands it. What happens with the dog in the end is secondary to this.

They need professional help, not chat room advice.
Deb

You've most certainly got a point there, Deb. I feel like I said the wrong thing. Maybe I should delete my post before she reads it (or rereads it).

I was thinking she was a teen. So many of our teens on this forum are unusually mature. Or at least they seem so from their posts. Kind of hard to tell when we're not in person.

Than ks for the reminder.

[luckies4me]

People please check profiles before commenting. This is NOT a kid we are giving advise too. It is a 22 year old, very capable of making her own decision, though I do want to add that I would keep the child away from the dog until they seek help from a professional.

[stacwase]

Grrrr.

I feel like an idiot. I should have double-checked the profile myself before answering Bluemoon's comment.

Sorry Sherry.

Anyways - what I had said, and then deleted, was that I think it's a great idea to have your brother lead the dog around on the leash 24/7 for a few days even if he's not actually tied to the dog. He could lead him around while doing the NILIF program, and it shouldn't take long at all for the dog to realize who's boss.

With your supervision and instruction, an 11-year-old should be able to do this safely, especially since it's not a vicious dog.

[aly]

Regardless of if the person we are giving advice to is a child, teenager, or adult, it is still very dangerous to give dog behavior advice (especially related to aggression or possible aggression) over the internet. For one thing, its near impossible to diagnose the situation from a second hand account. We don't truly know what could have caused the bite because we didn't see it with our own eyes. We can make educated guesses, but we really probably shouldn't in this situation.

This is something that should be left to a professional behaviorist. Even if the problem isn't serious, it could escalate into a much more severe situation. A behaviorist can observe what is going on and give advice to the family. Its very dangerous for someone over the internet to give advice on situations like this.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by aly
Regardless of if the person we are giving advice to is a child, teenager, or adult, it is still very dangerous to give dog behavior advice (especially related to aggression or possible aggression) over the internet. For one thing, its near impossible to diagnose the situation from a second hand account. We don't truly know what could have caused the bite because we didn't see it with our own eyes. We can make educated guesses, but we really probably shouldn't in this situation.

This is something that should be left to a professional behaviorist. Even if the problem isn't serious, it could escalate into a much more severe situation. A behaviorist can observe what is going on and give advice to the family. Its very dangerous for someone over the internet to give advice on situations like this.

I never said it was "OK" to give advice, which is why I recommended seeing a trainer. I was just simply pointing out the fact that this young lady is not a teenager or a child. I know if I was 22 and someone called me a child I would be a little upset.

[aly]

I wasn't directing the post at you, as you didn't give advice anyway.

[stacwase]

I was just agreeing with what was said before.

We give eachother advice all of the time over pet talk! Isn't that what we're here for? Advice and support?

Is anything directed at me here, or did I sort of step into a fight like I accidentally did that one time when I mentioned something about outdoor cats?

The tension here is thick enough to slice and serve with gravy so I think I'll just back slowly out of the room. :D :D

But - I must admit that I have never dealt with a truly aggressive dog so my opinions aren't any more valid than anybody else's.

[aly]

I'm not directing it anyone. I'm just stating the fact that it is dangerous to give advice on a situation like this.

Pet Talk is a wonderful place for advice and support. However, there are situations, and this is one, where only a true professional should step in. A good, qualified behaviorist wouldn't even give advice about this over the net because they understand that they need to see the situation in order to diagnose it. An 11 yr old boy had to go to the ER once, almost twice. That family really needs a behviorist in their home ASAP.

Luckily, the severe situations here at PT are few and far between. Therefore, we are able to give lots of support and advice to each other. But this is one of those times that we just shouldn't.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by aly
I wasn't directing the post at you, as you didn't give advice anyway.

OK, well then in that case, I apologize. :) Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[SherryAR]

I'm the one with the dog who posted originally. I am not a child. I'm in my 20's.

My brother wants to say something now:
"My wounds are all healed. It only took a week to heal. It's not that bad."

But at the time he was in pain. He's not afraid of Jake (the dog) on a daily basis. He lays around the house all day (both of them). But I'm still worried if my brother starts jumping around or moving near him when there's a new bone or food he really wants, he could strike again. I don't live at home anymore, but I'm there a lot. Anyway, thanks for the advice. Hopefully, they will get him to dog obedience school.

[aly]

Since your brother is 11, he understands not to go near the dog when there's a bone around, right? Then the problem can be avoided until you guys can talk to a professional.