A very sad dicovery

[jenluckenbach]

:( :( :(
As you know, Jim and Sterling have both been caught peeing in the house and are on medication to prevent it. But lately I have still been finding spots :confused:
Well, over the last couple of days I have caught Lucas peeng in a cardboard box and Mickey spraying the foot stool in the living room. :mad:
What am I going to do ?!?!?!
Lucas has just had tests for UTI and blood tests so we know he's not sick! And I'll bet you any amount that Mickey is not sick either.

People tried to warn me that taking in too many cats would eventually start this happening. And they also say once it starts the problem just grows. And sure enough that is what is happening.

On the one hand I am comforted in the fact that MANY (if not all) of the people I have talked to who do cat rescue have this same probelm and are living with it. On the other hand, can I live with it?

My biggest concern is that the urine spots will not be found in order to clean them up. If I did not actually SEE Mickey spray, I would not have noticed that spot after it dried. And YES, I know about the black light, but have you ever actually tried to search your house with one?? It needs to be done at night (i.e. in the dark), you have to deal with the stupid extension cord, it is constant bending, stretching and crawling and I have a LOT of rooms to search. Do that every day???? I don't think so!!!!!

I have feliway plug-ins. I really don't think they help (or at least they limit the behavior if not prevent it). I also use the feliway spray, but I can't spray every inch of my whole house!! That stuff is for when the bad cats prefer one spot and you can treat it. They have no preferences, they just spray all over!

So here I am, forever doomed to have a stinky, peed in house :(:(:(

[Pam]

Jen my heartfelt sympathy to you. I know you will do your very best to solve this problem and it is indeed a difficult one. I worked with a girl once who had ONE cat that was constantly spraying in their basement as he aged. The pee was permeating the concrete so badly that after the kitty left for the RB they actually had to break up and replace the concrete in order to get the odor out. I certainly hope you can get things under control or that you will discover one day that this has all magically just stopped. :(

[Laura's Babies]

Has something happened that may have upset them? I had one cat that peed on my daughters bed when ever I treated her for fleas to let me know her displeasure. Something happend that "displeased" them maybe?

[Barbara]

Jen I am so sorry for you. Knowing that one of Filou's ways of telling he has problems is also to pee where he shouldn't (I am glad he does it less than once a year:) ) I have an idea of how it must be if it happens more often:eek:

I hope you find a way to cope with it.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Jen, I'm so sorry to hear that you're cats are still having peeing problems.:( I hope you're able to get this under control. Good luck and please keep us updated.

[Fallon]

I'm sorry the cats are having that problem. It must be pretty bad for you and some of the other cats. I know it can start to smell pretty bad too.. I used to have about 7 cats and it got pretty bad.. you have even more than that! I hope you find a way to fix it.. you wont decide to get rid of any cats though, right?

[fairlady68]

This thread only confirms my decision to stick to just one cat...I occasionally see other needy, lovable cats and get tempted to take them in. But I feel like it would break my Julie's heart if I did so; we are so bonded now for almost ten years. I have heard about problems like these, and many others, and am glad I stuck by my original commitment to Julie, and Julie only.

I can sure understand how difficult it is, though, not to succumb to just one more sweet, meowing little face {;-)

Best wishes from MARTHA and Julie ("MEEE-OW!") the Calico Princess

[jenluckenbach]

This thread only confirms my decision to stick to just one cat...

I don't want anyone to think I am suggesting NOT to adopt. I had 13 cats before I ever even had a hint at a problem betwween them. I was just feeling a little sorry for myself and possibly guilty for going overboard.

While it is true that no one WANTS this kind of problem I just felt the need to report that it can happen and maybe I could even end up with a little moral support because I know I am not alone in this problem. (and it is not always due to too many cats, either)

Sometimes our hearts are bigger than our heads :(:(

[Felicia's Mom]

Jen, I feel for you. I have never had your problem (knock on wood). If I did, I might have to move or get rid of my cats. I should mention that I rent.


The worst problem I have is sometimes when Felicia pees, she stands up and it goes on the floor.


Good luck to you.

[Christiansmommy]

I am so sorry that you are faced with this stress...i am sure it must be stressful. I suppose if it continues to happen, is there a way that you could section off the "pee-ers" to an enclosed outdoor place...i think Noah'smommy has an outside enclosure? I know it wouldnt work in winter for you, being that you live in PA...but maybe it could help somewhat...i am sorry and dont know what to say, hope things start to clear up for you...

[jenluckenbach]

I suppose if it continues to happen, is there a way that you could section off the "pee-ers" to an enclosed outdoor place...i think Noah'smommy has an outside
I would NEVER condemn my cats to an outside life even if they were "safe" in an enclosure!!! I do not think that is a suitable solution. If I would find I could not live with the problem, rehoming is the ONLY acceptible solution.

[Christiansmommy]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
I would NEVER condemn my cats to an outside life even if they were "safe" in an enclosure!!! I do not think that is a suitable solution. If I would find I could not live with the problem, rehoming is the ONLY acceptible solution.

I dont think "CONDEMN" them is a suitable word. For instance, my in laws have a huge sun room (enclosed with windows, wood flooring, etc, that is a livable part of their house...we go out there very frequently to sit out there, it is heated/air conditioned, etc. Now they dont have cats living out there, but i would like to say, sorry, just MY opinion, that if they had a buddy out there with them (being that you have 2 cats that are spraying), it wouldn't be such a bad place to be. Not like they would be destined to be alone the rest of their life...of course they would be part of the family...just like any animal is...none the less, it was just a suggestion, since you seemed bummed about the situation, i thought i would try to offer some sort of other option..................

[carole]

I agree with you Christiansmommy.

[jenluckenbach]

Originally posted by Christiansmommy
I dont think "CONDEMN" them is a suitable word. For instance, my in laws have a huge sun room (enclosed with windows, wood flooring, etc, that is a livable part of their house...we go out there very frequently to sit out there, it is heated/air conditioned, etc. Now they dont have cats living out there, but i would like to say, sorry, just MY opinion, that if they had a buddy out there with them (being that you have 2 cats that are spraying), it wouldn't be such a bad place to be. Not like they would be destined to be alone the rest of their life...of course they would be part of the family...just like any animal is...none the less, it was just a suggestion, since you seemed bummed about the situation, i thought i would try to offer some sort of other option..................
I do not back down from MY opinion. (but trust me when I say that I was in no way angry at your suggestion. I know it was given with the best of intentions)

But let me ask you this............

If your in laws DID have a peeing cat would they REALLY want them in that beautiful sunroom???? The odds are that the answer would be NO because it is too much a part of the house. Which is exactly the reason I never even gave such a room as a consideration. the words "an outside enclosure" sounded to me too much like a remote place where they would spend a great deal of time alone. And like a dog that spends his kife in a kennel or fenced-in outdoor run, I would not want that for my cats even if they were making trouble for me. :(

[Pam]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
rehoming is the ONLY acceptible solution.

Who do you think would want kitties that are spraying? I am assuming you would tell them up front.

[jenluckenbach]

Yes, you tell them.

And the answer would be...not too many. And I too wondered the same thing. BUT, I was told by people with a whole lot more experience at placing cats than I have that there are people willing to give them a chance and that quite a few known pee-ers have stopped once they were in a new environment.

I myself, many years ago, took on a cat that was returned to a shelter for litter box problems. And at first he gave me problems. But we worked through them and I had him for 12 years (11 of which were accident free).

Maybe I should have just kept my problems to myself. :(

[Christiansmommy]

Maybe you can do a google search on how to stop cats from spraying...i guess that might be the best suggestion...hope you find an answer that works best for you and your family...

Robyn

[jenluckenbach]

hope you find an answer that works best for you and your family...
thanks :)

[PayItForward]

Jen, I do agree with you.

All cats deserve to be part of a family not alone and outside, that is a life of a stray cat not a loved one :(

But I am confident you can sort this out, if the worst came to the worst, you might have to stop fostering but I don't think it will get to that stage.

PS. Did you buy that blacklight torch I found for you ?

[jenluckenbach]

PS. Did you buy that blacklight torch I found for you ?
as a matter of fact, I ordered 2 (but they are not here yet)

And, you know what. I do not think this would cause me to stop fostering. Many people often talk about how they have an obligation to THEIR cats first, but my fosters ARE my cats! I made a committment to them, too. I feel I NEED to foster as it is the only way for me to help more than the 15 I call my own. If I could not help others, I would not be using a God-given talent.

So the bottom line is:

I don't expect an easy answer. I just thought my "friends" would be interested in my life enough to care to share in the bad stories (peeing problems) as much as in the good stories (kitten pictures, etc.).

[ChrisH]

Jen, I am sorry you are having such problems. No advice to offer, just a hug and a hope that you find a solution.

Chris

[Logan]

Jen, I just think there is no easy answer and that everyone is trying to give you their support, even if they don't know what to tell you! Of course, we're all interested in knowing what is going on with your gang. I can't imagine how troublesome this is for you. :( We have been so fortunate, with our two, that they don't do this sort of thing (at least not right now). But I have had the wetting problem with two of my four dogs. Dogs are so much easier to contain when something like this happens, although it breaks my heart not to have them all over the house where I can love on them constantly. :(

I hope you can figure out an answer and soon.

You have our support and concern, even if we don't know exactly what to suggest. I hope you know that.

Logan

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
I would NEVER condemn my cats to an outside life even if they were "safe" in an enclosure!!! I do not think that is a suitable solution. If I would find I could not live with the problem, rehoming is the ONLY acceptible solution.
So glad I just found this!!! Not only do you have a hissy fit on PIF's board, but you come here and do the same.

Nice, Jen!

:( :( :( :(

[shais_mom]

All I can say is



W:eek:W The truth comes out in the strangest places.
I KNOW that your friends DO care and DO want to know the bad with the good, and I don't think that suggesting they be limited outdoor kitties was said in nastiness. You know your kitties best and what is best for them. I wouldn't even begin to know how to help but other people with multiple cats can give their advice.
I think feelings were hurt here is b/c of the angry way you replied. Sometimes when emotions run high our posts come across as nasty and I think when that happens we have to take a breath and re read what we said.

Good Luck

[Logan]

Everyone handles their own situation in the best way that they know how to. Probably the reason I don't have a problem with mine is that they go outdoors mostly, and use the litter box inside as their last resort. I know that there are many who disagree with my having indoor/outdoor cats, but I have weighed the options, and given their history, it works best for us. Would I prefer that they stay inside and be content? You'd better believe it!!! But they don't and won't, and thankfully, all has been well with those two for a long, long time.

I hope this thread won't turn into a "he said/she said" sort of thing, and that we won't be passing judgement on anyone for the decisions they have made. We all know each other to be pet lovers, lovers of all animals, and we each make our own decisions about what is best for our particular animals.

Every one of us has had to make tough decisions before and we will have to do the same in the future. But any information I receive through reviewing these threads is just "food for thought" and might help me in making these tough decisions going forward.

It makes me so sad :( when people respond in the best way they know how and end up getting blasted for what they said, whether it be here or on another forum. :(

[sasvermont]

Hey, I do believe Christiansmommy had only good intension when suggesting an outdoor enclosure/pen as a remedy. She is such a sweet, loving and kind person who loves people, pets and everyone..... and she deserves a better response than what you gave! And maybe an apology - not a "back down" from, just an apology.

The peeing thing would drive me to complete misery and I can only assume it has gotten the best of you at this point.

I try my darnest to stay out of the messes when they do happen here, but Christiansmommy is undoubted one of the nicest persons here....and you are too....so what gives?

You are way off base on this one Jen. We all think so highly of you .... and respect your opinion and yet I wonder what it took to set you off on this one?

Hope you are not totally offended by this missive.

I forgive everyone for temporary steps away from grace!

Fondly,

SAS

[sirrahved]

Oh Jen! *big hugs* I know first-hand how frustrating this can be! I also had no luck with the feliway. Pickles is now on meds and it has made a world of difference!

We did have a relapse (he sprayed twice) when I had a houseful of visitors about a month ago. I think the constant commotion scared him.

Pickles is on cyproheptadine. It's been a big help. I don't know what I would have done without it!

I would also suggest investing in a battery operated stink light. Also, are you keeping these two in a limited part of the house? This will cut down on the search area that you have to cover:)

We've had great luck with the enzyme cleaners. All of the ones that we've tried have worked the same-- so I recommend staying on they low side:)

Big hugs to you, and good luck!

Devon

[carole]

I don't think Jen really meant to upset anyone, even if her comments were rather to the point,she is obviously having a hard time with this problem and sometimes we lash out unintentionally, I agreed with Christianmommy and I know her intentions were indeed to be helpful nothing else.

Sometimes things get said in haste, and things said by very well meaning people taken the wrong way, we should forgive and forget and try to continue to offer advice to Jen in this stressful situation. We all bungle under stress sometimes.:) Peace everyone.

[AvaJoy]

Just as some people can't withstand crowds, some cats also seem to get stressed when other cats are about. Many times sprayers DO change their ways when introduced into another environment, so re-homing may be successful, especially if no other cats are in the new domain.

Replacing cinder blocks due to the smell??? Sounds like an extreme measure, so must have been intact males because I notice no odor from my neutered cats' urine, and I have a female that has sprayed outside the litter box on many occassions. If it wasn't for the fact that I SAW her do it (and other times noticed a wet area) my keenly sensitive nose would not have detected it. Simple Solution sprayed on the area works great, and I only do it to eliminate any odor that probably the other cats could detect. I have even asked visitors to level with me if they notice any offensive odor, and I have been assured not.

Jen, I hope your kitties behave themselves soon, and appreciate all the love and care they are fortunate enough to receive from you. :)

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by PayItForward
[B]

All cats deserve to be part of a family not alone and outside, that is a life of a stray cat not a loved one :(

B]

I totally agree that all cats deserve to be part of a family and not alone and outside. However I don't think what is happening with Livvy is the same thing as a stray cat at all.

A cat that is in a SAFE enclosure where their location is known at all times seems much less of a stray cat then cats that are outside and allowed to roam as they please IMO. At least if the cat is in an enclosure they are protected from cars, dogs, etc. Cats that are allowed to go outside freely are not, reguardless of the location..those dangers still exist.

[shais_mom]

I think that Kelly's little setup for Livvy is at least she is safe and not going to escape. If she was really outside for any period of time, a car is a car is a car and no matter where you are it is a lot bigger then a kitty cat.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by wolf_Q
I totally agree that all cats deserve to be part of a family and not alone and outside. However I don't think what is happening with Livvy is the same thing as a stray cat at all.

My personal opinion is that all cats should have inside access at all times but this is not to be seen as a critism of Kelly.

I wasn't talking about Livvy, I was talking about the suggestion of putting Jen's cats outside !!!

Each cat owner has to decide for themselves what is the best for their own cats, as they know them better than us on the internet.

As one cat will live happily outside or inside/outside but it doesn't follow that ALL cats will be happy in that situation.

Just because one person has a happy temporary solution doesn't mean that solution is right for all other cats.


This thread is going way off topic.... I think that both Kelly & Jen would prefer everyone to 'let them be', regarding their cats accommodation and go back to helping Jen with her cats weeing problem with inside options please

[Pam]

This will be my last post on the subject. I feel I owe it to Jen to explain myself since she was obviously upset with something I said enough to mention it at another site. Yes Avajoy the girl I worked with had one cat (neutered male) that totally ruined their basement. They jackhammered a section of the concrete after trying every cleaner on the planet. This was back in the early 90's so maybe today there are better cleaners on the market. I don't know. Also, my sister-in-law's cats (both neutered, one boy and one girl) totally trashed their spare room with pee. That is where their litterboxes were kept. Believe me the smell from that room permeated the whole house and that is where I first really learned what cat pee smells like. It is a *whole nother* ballgame from dog pee. When my SIL's house was sold the new owners gutted the room.

I only responded because Jen's last sentence said that she would just have to *live in a peed in house* (her words). I wanted to give her some "worst case scenarios" to this kind of thinking. Our homes are our biggest investment. I don't think anyone here can really afford to have theirs ruined to that extent. IMHO if one does not want suggestions one shouldn't start a thread like this. My post was just a warning and was taken in the wrong way. End of post and end of thread for me.

[carole]

I so agree with you on this one Jenny(payitforward) let us all try to help Jen resolve her problem, after all thats what friends are for!!
I cannot offer any advice Jen just good wishes and hope for a remedy to your problem soon. Best of luck.:)