Same sex hanky-panky in the media- Acceptable, Taboo, or both?

[Sirrahsim]

I have had the following conversation multiple times over the last weeks and finally decided to bring it to the Dog House to see what PTers think.

Why is female-female hanky-panky(teehee I said hanky-panky and my Mom's gonna read this:D :D :rolleyes: ) more socially acceptable than male-male hanky-panky?
Think about it, the mainstream media glorifies female on female action all of the time. Have you seen Wildthings and Wildthings 2? Popular opinion is that two chicks making out or getting freaky is "cool". Even in bars: many young women will bump and grind with other young women because it will inevitable bring them more attention from the men- regardless of whether they have homosexual tendencies or not.
However, VERY rarely do you see two men dancing suggestively together to get attention from the ladies. And even more rarely so you see any *ahem* dirty business between two men in movies or mainstream media. A male-male kiss is even quite taboo for mainstream media.
I remember watching this one movie-can't remember the title off the top of my head- and I saw two males kissing. I have no problem with gay men- I even used to be friends with a few before I moved over here, but seeing those two men kissing on screen just made my skin crawl. Upon asking arond I quickly discovered that I was most definately NOT the only person that shared that sentiment. On the flip side, when I watched the Wildthings movies I saw the female-female kissing and thought nothing of it. I might have given a little chuckle because it was a movie with horrible acting, but there was no indication of crawling skin. Again upon asking around I discovered that that too was common public sentiment.

So.... Why do you think this is? Why is it that female-female kissing, etc... is more visible and socially acceptable to promote and male-male kissing, etc... is considered taboo.


I know that some people will laugh at this thread, and that some people will get offended and say "How dare you presume to say what public sentiment is!!?" But I am prepared, I'm even wearing my virtual flame retardent vest, so Bring it On!:rolleyes: :D :D

[Cincy'sMom]

I will also don my flame retardant vest and venture a guess...

True or not, the preception is that most guys's fantasy is to watch two women, and be with 2 at the same time. Therefore, it is socaily acceptable. At the same time, most women at not "homophobic" so they do not have that skin crawling feeling when they see 2 women.

At the same time, most guys are very uncomfortable with the idea of gay men. I had a friend who was gay and very out of the closet about it. But when we were at Disney and there was a gay couple making out, he was just as repulsed as the rest of us. Not many women dream of watching two guys, and most guys don't want to see it, dotherefore it is not socaily acceptable.

Of course these are just generalizations and assupmtions on my part.

[Uabassoon]

The media has a tendency to portray women as sexual objects. If you pay attention to advertising you will notice that usually women are objectified. They are usually wearing skimpy clothing or made up to look like an animal or an object. This rarely happens with men in advertising. Usuallly men are dressed in nice suits or nice clothing, men should be handsome and women sexy. Granted this is slowly changing and now it's become more common to see men without shirts in advertising, and even a little male on male action (look at the ambercombie catalog). However now even the Ambercrombie catalog is considered "controverisal" because it does use half naked men sitting very close to each other.
The point of this is, the reason why seeing two women together isn't as uncomfortable as two men together is because the women aren't protrayed as "lesbians" but rather sexual objects which we are used to. It's sexy, not gay. Since we aren't used to seeing men in that way two men together automatically comes off as being gay. When in reality it isn't really any different, it just has to do with being used to seeing certain images.

[Tonya]

OMG, as I was reading this, my son came running in the room and told me that two boys just kissed and got married on his cartoon. lmao.

I think I'm biased too. Gets flame retardant vest on I have many gay friends, I don't have a problem with that. But I think that men tend to be more promiscuous. They're more out for sex and women are more out for the emotional bond. Because of that, I guess...I get more grossed out when I see guys making out then women.

Now, those chicks that do it for show, they are flat out trashy. That gets on my nerves.

[2kitties]

I think another reason is that the female body is more "beautiful" than the male. We are the "softer sex"- don't forget.
I mean, I'm a straight woman who loves men, but even I do not want to see a fully nude man shakin' it on a stage or in a movie or magazine or whatever. In fact, I'd probably be completely repulsed. But a fully naked woman isn't disgusting to most people. Just from a purely superficial viewpoint, I think a woman's body is more beautiful than a man's. I think many people share that opinion. There is something. I am sure it's society and conditioning, but I think that is a factor.

Also, why would men want to see men get it on? They'd rather see women. And men buy magazines, watch those kinds of shoes, etc. much much more than women. So they are the target demographic.

I'm personally not offended by any of it.

[lat192004]

WOW, what a subject. Being a man, this is how I see it. Females are feminine anyway. Loving each other like hugging and kissing is naturally feminine.It's not too objectionable, it's acceptable. But two lumberjacks or Green Bay football players kissing and holding hands looks out of place in that it is a departure from their He Man image. Man is tough, strong, the alpha.One man Kissing another of the same sex breaks the mold. My observations are coming from me, a 57 year old grandpa. This is a different generation than mine, different attitudes, differet folks, different strokes. I'm pretty liberal as I don't really care what a man is doing to another, or what one women is doing to another, as long as you don't try to beat me with a ball bat or attempt murder........By the way, I kisssed both my cats this morning. I hope my neighbors did not find this objectionable.LOL

[Cataholic]

Uba, I think you nailed this one. It is about sexiness, not gayness.

I really don't get freaked out by any display of any sort.


Originally posted by 2kitties
I mean, I'm a straight woman who loves men, but even I do not want to see a fully nude man shakin' it on a stage or in a movie or magazine or whatever. In fact, I'd probably be completely repulsed.


Weeeeelllllll, it depends...maybe not 'shakin' IT', but, how about something less? :D

[carole]

It's funny I have heard many a women say they donot find the male body that great to look at, me I am the opposite, I find the male body just as beautiful, I especially love mens butts.
:D Enough said.!!!;)

[carole]

I think perhaps the difference is when women see a naked guy, they don't necessarily get turned on by it, they may find it nice to look at and appreciate it, but that is about it, whereas men, well most, probably get highly excited by the presence of the naked female body., that is most likely why men donot find it offensive to watch lesbians, as it is still the female body, and they probably derive some pleasure at watching them, but not so with the male to male, just MO.

There is nothing cutier than a nice male butt in a g-string, but yes not bad in jeans as well lol.:o

[lat192004]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carole
[B]I think perhaps the difference is when women see a naked guy, they don't necessarily get turned on by it, they may find it nice to look at and appreciate it, but that is about it, whereas men, well most, probably get highly excited by the presence of the naked female body., that is most likely why men donot find it offensive to watch lesbians, as it is still the female body, and they probably derive some pleasure at watching them, but not so with the male to male, just MO.

I see the femal body as a thing of beauty. I believe this is 100% normal for a man, and don't mind see a pretty girl walk by. I don't see the same with Lesbians.I look and turn away.I don't try to analyze, don't judge, don't comment. I see it more of tolerance on my side. I don't approve, or disapprove. I don't see this as a thing of beauty nor am I "turned on" by watching two Lesbians make out. I find it less offensive than watching a thug beat some person sensless, or watching pictures of war on the 6:00pm news. Whatever you want to call it, it's love, or at least an attempt of love from one person to another.It's not hurting me, I mind my own business.


Lat-Hawaii

[carole]

Lat I did not mean anything offensive by my comments, but just observing mere males over my years and chatting with them, this is the opinion I have,obviously it does not apply in your case and I am sure there are others as well who feel as you do, but there are plenty who feel as I Mentioned as well.:)

[G.P.girl]

well i wasn't really going to get in to this, because i wasn't realy sure what i thought about it, but i was thinking about it today and i have come to a conclusion:

the reason male "hanky-panky" ( :D teehee) is not as acceptable as female hanky panky is because hollywood and the media is predominately run by males. and we all know it's a very popular male fantasy to be with two girls at once. so when they make their movies they make it seem like a good thing, and that it's a really sexy fun thing that people should like. and since most males are homophobic they can't make it seem like any male hanky panky would be ok because that might mean they are gay. :rolleyes: and since this is what we see and hear all day long this has effected the way we think about stuff like that.

also i was surprised how many people admit they are repulsed by two males together and OK with females together. i would have thought more people wouldn't admit that or even realize that. i have to admit i feel a little more uncomfortable watching males on TV than girls, but that might be because you don't see that very often and it makes you notice it more when you do see it. but i'm not repulsed by any gay hanky panky male or female

*steps off soapbox* so that's my conclusion after thinking about it. lol

[popcornbird]

What an *interesting* thread. :p LOL

Personally, I *guess*, its because women, in general, have that compassionate/loving nature that is not exactly a strong trait in the male gender. It would be odd to see *men*, hugging/kissing each other, because its something men just don't do like women. I mean women always hug/kiss other women, and its really not a sexual thing.........just the way women are. Its normal when you see a woman hugging or kissing (what I mean by that is just a little kiss.......nothing more). Its not something that would make a female *gay*. As for men, how often do you see straight men hugging/kissing each other? Its just not *in* them. They don't feel/act the same way as we do. God made them different, and their nature is different, so things that come as completely normal for a woman, could be something that would be completely awkward for a man.

Personally, I see gay men and women as the same. For me, and from what my religion teaches me, homosexuality is a major sin, and it doesn't matter if its done by men or women. I too, do not buy the genetic argument. I see it as something that comes from society, and do not believe God made anyone like that. I believe people made themselves like that. Anyway, that is my opinion, and let's leave it at that, but back to the topic.........women hugging/kissing women does not come across as sexual, (unless its french kissing or something.....bleh). Its just something women do. For a man, it doesn't seem right, because its not in their nature. A hug maybe, is fine, but I would freak out if I saw a man kissing a man. I never have, to be honest. :p I always see women hugging or kissing each other, and it is done by perfectly straight women, and never thought of as wrong. I don't see it as wrong either. That's just the way women are. It just isn't something that comes across as sexual. Its just a woman's way of comforting/caring for their friends, or just greeting/saying goodbye to them.

As to the *cough* hanky-panky, I personally see it in the same way, whether its done by men or women. I would see that as wrong, for both sexes.

[CathyBogart]

I've often wondered something similar. I think it's because men seem to have a fear that gay men around them will "hit on" them and that somehow will make them appear gay. A LOT of my male friends are gay, and I've enver seen one make any advances on a straight man, so this mentality seems rather unfounded, but it seems to be how people are.

I've never really understood why some men find two women together so stimulating, or why some men (I hear this a lot from friends) allow their girlfriends to "fool around" with other women but not other men. Cheating is cheating is cheating, no matter who it's with.

The whole thing is really baffling if one looks at it from a logical standpoint. but oh well, nobody ever accused life of making sense!!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by carole
I especially love mens butts.
:D Enough said.!!!;)


I am not that fond of ashtrays...

;)

[carole]

HA HA Richard as we say in kiwi lingo you are a real 'Hardcase" mean's you are a funny guy, alway's seeing a laugh in everything, ok would Bum, Touche, bottom be more the word lol!!:)

PCB raised something interesting, yes females are more touchy human beings for sure, you often see young girls walking around town arm and arm, and no they are not gay, or a mother and older daughter holding hands, also not gay, we are just much more emotional creatures who show our feelings more publicly than perhaps the male gender., so perhaps that is why we have less of a problem with the female/female thing, just my thoughts.;)

[lat192004]

Originally posted by carole
HA HA Richard as we say in kiwi lingo you are a real 'Hardcase" mean's you are a funny guy, alway's seeing a laugh in everything, ok would Bum, Touche, bottom be more the word lol!!:)

PCB raised something interesting, yes females are more touchy human beings for sure, you often see young girls walking around town arm and arm, and no they are not gay, or a mother and older daughter holding hands, also not gay, we are just much more emotional creatures who show our feelings more publicly than perhaps the male gender., so perhaps that is why we have less of a problem with the female/female thing, just my thoughts.;)

Hello all.

An interesting thread here. Good point Carole. Gals are usually more emotional and show feelings more than the male gender, but only from the outside.Men tend to hide their emotions because they are told "not to cry" "men don't cry" etc. This holding in of emotions can lead to ulcers and a host of mental health problems that lead to depression, boozing and even suicide in men. Being open about your emotions is completely healthy, and you should care less of what society thinks as long as it affects you in a positive way. When a person worries all time what everyone is thinking about him/her, and holding in their emotions and feeings, that person will end a neurotic emotional wreak.

[carole]

Lat I so agree with you here, it is a pity our young men are not taught it is ok to cry, I remember my son saying to me, mum you better not cry at the airport(he was off to UK) I said thats because you are scared you will cry, and he said yes, I have never taught him not to show his emotions, he grew up with me alone for ten years, but society has, and it is a sad reflection of society on a whole.

[Kfamr]

Because "men" are stupid.:rolleyes: :p


Personally, i'd rather not see two women, two men, or a woman and a man doing anything of the sort in public. A short kiss, a hug -- fine. Is there really a need to be stuck onto eachothers faces like magnets in public?

I don't think it has to do with females being more emotional and showing more affection... it has to do with people being ignorant.
Especially males. They'll straight out say - " Oh, I hate homosexuals, two girls are 'hot' though!" Especially the idiots in my school. People need to learn to accept Homosexuality in both sexes, male and female.... whether they agree with it or not, they still need to learn to accept it.

Females showing affection and emotions are far different then what men find attractive. Generally, they find the skimpy girls in skimpy outfits with their faces stuck to eachother's attractive.


I love when males cry. Not the fact that they're hurt or sad -- the fact that it shows that there's actually SOMETHING in there....



We're off to buy some things for the pups...... i'll more than likely be back with more of what I have to say. ;)

[G.P.girl]

Originally posted by Kfamr
They'll straight out say - " Oh, I hate homosexuals, two girls are 'hot' though!" Especially the idiots in my school.

well i think young people like that are just immature and that doesn't really count as a " political opinion" because they're usually just saying that to look cool around thier friends

[Uabassoon]

well i think young people like that are just immature and that doesn't really count as a " political opinion" because they're usually just saying that to look cool around thier friends

Well, it's not just young people that say that. I've heard many grown men say the exact same thing.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by G.P.girl
well i think young people like that are just immature and that doesn't really count as a " political opinion" because they're usually just saying that to look cool around thier friends



No. I've known many, many older people say the same exact thing.

[Sirrahsim]

yes, I've heard many an adult male say the exact same thing:rolleyes:

[catnapper]

Whew... what I miss when I'm in my own world for a few days! I've read through the replies briefly, so please forgive me if I repeat something that has already been said. :)

I have noticed this little phenomenon too. I see what my kids and their friends are doing at school and the dances. All the girls wear skin-tight clothes... the pants begin as low on the hips as possible, while the shirts end high above the waist. The boys all wear baggy oversized clothing... lets take some fabric from the boys and donate it to the girls!!! LOL

Anyway, at the dances the girls all dance together. And I mean DANCE together, ala Dirty Dancing. A few kiss.... while the boys stand on the side lines hooting and hollering.

I think sometimes the kids are doing what they see in the media, then the media turns around and shows what the kids are doing. It would have never occured to me as a teen at a school dance to get my groove on pelvis to pelvis with my best friend. Eeeewwww.

I am uncomfortable wih men/men and woman/woman scenes. But I'm a prude.. I often think they show too much on man/woman scenes. I like the way they used to do movies where they showed people were about to kiss and they showed the beginning of the kiss, panned away and returned with a happy couple afterwards.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by catnapper
lets take some fabric from the boys and donate it to the girls!!! LOL





LETS!! Oh please, please, PLEASE!!

I'd seriously love to see everyone dress in their OWN size for one day.

[G.P.girl]

Originally posted by Kfamr
No. I've known many, many older people say the same exact thing.
yeah i know, i didn't say that older people didn't say theat. what i meant was, when younger people say that they are usually trying to be cool or show that they "are not gay"and that makes them seem immature. when older people say it it just makes them seem ignorant

[sirrahved]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
Well, it's not just young people that say that. I've heard many grown men say the exact same thing.

:rolleyes: My husband... :rolleyes:



imho, women's bodies are more beautiful. But I'd rather not see ANY sort of physical contact between same sexed people, because this shows a tolerance.

[cloverfdx]

imho, women's bodies are more beautiful. But I'd rather not see ANY sort of physical contact between same sexed people, because this shows a tolerance.

And it should not be tolerated? I know your opinion not everyone is going to agree.

[DJFyrewolf36]

Eh....

I personally find men very beautiful...and I find that most men have a total hissycow if you tell em so. It's as if they think If some chick says I'm beautiful, then I must be gay....hrm...

Stupid society makes it imposible to even COMPLEMENT someone without someone getting POed

I think the comedian Ron White said it best....(Im paraphrasing here)

He was telling a story about his homophobic friend and said "When you watch pornography, do you want to see a woman get *bleep* by a guy with a small thingy *I use thingy so as not to offend...as much ;)* or a big thingy?" And the friend started to go on about how he liked big thingys and then kind of just shut up lol.

The point is, most men *NOT ALL* need to get a grip and not be so gay-sensitive. I figure its healthy just to not worry so much if a guy is hitting on you....I mean if he is...it must mean youre atractive to him and it SHOULD be taken as a complement...but if you're uncomfortable, you should be polite about mentioning your sexual preferences to the party in question and leave it at that. Respect IS a good thing...

Ok I rambled a bit off topic....

As far as PDA is concerned, I figure holding hands and cuddling is fine...maybe even a small kiss but Puuullleeeze *Heterosexual persons and homosexual persons need to learn this* if your partner is orgasiming in public, you probibly should tone things down a bit ;) Thats just my opinion lol

If I wanted to see action, Id just open my junk e-mails...

[Vio&Juni]

I agree with Laura's (Uabasson) post.

But, I also think it is related to the perception of beauty. I could never understand WHY a male body is not considered beautiful? I think the roots of this lay in the education. I personally think that a male body can be as beautiful as a female body, and viceversa. People don't look at the human body with their eyes, they look with their mind (which is full of prejudices). You just have to look for it. A man's behind can be as sexy as a woman's. I know so many straight girls that don't see half of the beauty I see in men.

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by Kfamr
LETS!! Oh please, please, PLEASE!!

I'd seriously love to see everyone dress in their OWN size for one day.


I AGREE!!!
Regardless if they are big or small!!!!! I am so tired of seeing Girls that are not teeny tiny in shirts with their guts hanging out.
And half the time I want to go up to the average teenage guy and tug lightly on his pants to see if they fall.....

Personally, I feel that any PDA regardless if it male or female, female to female, male to male, is nasty and shows a 'tolerance' if you will of the lack of respect to others. Actually it isn't a tolerance, b/c that would mean I am a conservatatist (is that a word) and I certainly am not. I feel it is more of an acceptance of the blatant lack of respect that runs rampant in the world today.
I don't get overly excited (baddd choice of words) to see same sex relationships all over each other, but I have the same opinion of heterosexuals that are slobbering all over each other. "GET A ROOM" or "TAKE IT HOME!"

Probably isn't a very popular opinion but just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[DJFyrewolf36]

Originally posted by shais_mom
"GET A ROOM" or "TAKE IT HOME!"


THANK YOU !!! You read my mind

[carole]

Actually Staci you might be suprised just how many people would agree with you, I am with you on this one too, I don't mind tasteful romance, but like you said for anything more GET A ROOM.;)