Greenspan asking for Social Security Cuts!!!

[moosmom]

Do you believe this jerk??? :mad: :mad: (I have ALWAYS hated politicians and he just adds icing to the cake). He asking Congress to vote in favor of cutting Social Security benefits!

Keep in mind that this will not only effect us baby boomers, but also any young people down the road who will eventually rely on Social Security. Not to mention, all the elderly people who NOW rely on it.

This buttwipe, who is living very comfortably and doesn't need the benefits of SS, obviously could care less about the little people who's survival is vital to their benefits they worked so hard for for so long.

*sigh* I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. And I'm also sure that there are PLENTY of people both young and old, who will be sure to give this piece of $hit a piece of their mind. I just hope that Congress has enough sense to vote it down. Otherwise we're all in trouble!! :(

[2kitties]

I guess I have to say it never occurred to me even for a minute that social security would still be around when my turn comes. So, I am unfortunatly not surprised.

[mugsy]

He is asking that people making over a certain amount NOT receive Social Security benefits at all even if they've paid into their entire working life, so that people in need will be able to have it. He is also asking that retirement age be increased. They were talking about it on O'Reilly yesterday.

The baby boomers are going to be the group that break the Social Security program anyway. Like 2kitties, I just figured it would be wishful thinking that I would ever get Social Security. That's why I am so mad about my 403B because I don't have enough in it for my retirement. My Indiana state teacher's retirement fund isn't doing all that great either. Now, I'm in charge (a scary thought in itself) of my health insurance money that I will have after I retire (which at least I have, but, it's only good for so long) and some other sort of money that I have that I have no clue what exactly it is.

I think I'm going to wait and see how this thing plays out over the next week and see what ALL Greenspan is asking for. I always have to hear about 4 different versions before I ever even get a CLUE what the whole thing is about.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Social Security was put into effect when my dad was a young man. He told me that at that time, they were told the money would be in an account for when they retired. ie: what they put in, they would get out. He never saw half of what he paid in.

As a person on SS disability, I really wish congress would find some other outlet for their energies. Why don't the make me believe they really care about us by refusing their big fat (unneeded) raises every year. Does anyone really need a 3 to 5 THOUSAND DOLLAR A YEAR RAISE?
They don't do anything to deserve it. Just figure out ways to make my life more difficult!

Besides, THEY were the ones who spent the SS surplus a while back!!!
Sure make us suffer because they can't budget!

[2kitties]

Social Security bugs me in first place. I'd prefer to be in charge of my own retirement. The idea that I need to give it to them for them to manage doesn't sit well with me.
I do a fine job planning for that part of my life without the govt.

[mugsy]

Social Security didn't even show up until 1935 and by 2018 the number of workers paying into the program will be smaller than those taking out. So, it's not looking good. Something's going to have to break....the scary part is, on the website below it says that, I think, 19% of people receiving Social Security depend solely on it for their retirement. That's NOT good.

Amazing how dependent we have become on the program in less than 70 years on the program.

2 kitties, I think I remember reading about this, the money we are paying in now is what is paying the benefits to the people who are receiving now, so, I guess that's why we don't have control over our own money....

Here's the website.

http://www.mysocialsecurity.org/quickfacts/

[ILoveReptiles]

I resent having to pay into Social Security when I know I won't see a dime of it back. I'm perfectly capable of managing my own finances and planning for my retirement without the government's help. They should stop taking that extra money and let me invest it in something that will actually give me a return in the long-term.

[2kitties]

^^^what she said^^^

[mugsy]

I didn't say that I didn't resent it, but, if they give us control of our money then people receiving money now won't be getting it anymore....at least that's the way I read it. I'm not sure what the answer is...hmmm....maybe if we come up with it we can get rich that way eh?

What did you guys think of that website...I thought it had some interesting trivia...stuff I didn't know. (oops...was I supposed to say that since I'm a U.S. History teacher? :p )

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by mugsy
I didn't say that I didn't resent it, but, if they give us control of our money then people receiving money now won't be getting it anymore....at least that's the way I read it. Well, I paid in for over 20 years!

My 401k was used waiting for my disability to come through because it was all I had to live on.
If they would stop giving benefits to illegal aliens that would help.

[mugsy]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces

If they would stop giving benefits to illegal aliens that would help.

Boy is that the truth!! But, that's another thread entirely!

When I was listening to O'Reilly talk about it he was saying that he has paid into Social Security for years, but does not ever plan on drawing on the funds that he has put in, because there are those who need it and he doesn't. I THINK...again....a guess because I haven't heard enough on the subject yet...that's what Greenspan was trying to do by cutting benefits...but, I'll have to do more research first. But, Greenspan definitely has WAY too much power.

[catnapper]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces
If they would stop giving benefits to illegal aliens that would help.

Hoorah! It would also be nice to stop giving them free housing, free food, free education, free - everything. Kick their lazy butts back to where they came from. If they want to be here so bad, then WORK and become a vital part of our society!

Hmph.

[trayi52]

My husband is disabled, and we live on that diability income. What the heck does this mean for us? Anybody know? Are they going to cut out our only source of income, which is Social Security benefits?

He can't work, and I have to stay home and take care of him.

[moosmom]

Hoorah! It would also be nice to stop giving them free housing, free food, free education, free - everything. Kick their lazy butts back to where they came from. If they want to be here so bad, then WORK and become a vital part of our society!

Hmph.

Catnapper, I'm with you!! In CT, they're trying to decide whether or not to give education at major colleges to children of illegal aliens! :mad: Some of the institutions have a policy that prohibits them from getting any benefits like that. What really burns my ass is the fact that while I'm unemployed and have absolutely NO benefits whatsoever, these illegal aliens are getting what is rightfully mine!! :mad: I'd LOVE to go to the doctor and have my heal spur removed, have a colonoscopy, OB-GYN exam, dental exam, etc., done, get food stamps, rental assistance, until I can find job (that too is a whole other thread)but can't because I don't have the benefits. These people (illegal aliens) make me sick!!

As far as the Social Security thing is concerned, I hadn't heard the whole picture on Greenspan's plan to give it only to people who need it and deny it to people who don't. And you're right, I think he has WAYYYY to much power.

[mugsy]

Don't take what I said as gospel...that's just how I understood it. I hope that's right.....don't kill me if I'm wrong.

[catnapper]

My husband, Mr. Catnapper, says:
"I was in the military, worked in the post office, and am now a public school teacher. I am watching this idiot take away everything that he has worked for since he was 16."

I told him to continue with his rant, and he said "I'm done" but then interjected that Greenspan is worthless... then mumbled something about whole other issues and whole other htreads.

[trayi52]

Is this going to happen or is it? Is Greenspan going to get his way? Does he usually? Or this being an election year just going to mean he is beating a dead horse with a whatever you beat a dead horse with?

I am serious, Are they going to cut What we are getting now in half? My brother in law keeps saying yeap they have done made it law! I keep saying not law yet.

Well? Anybody?Answers?

[mugsy]

Willie, as far as I know, this is just a suggestion....but, I may be wrong.

Yes, this is an election year, but Greenspan is not an elected official. I get nervous when one guy has the power to decide interest rates, value of money, money in circulation, etc....

[mugsy]

Ok...I was wrong...he does want cuts throughout....but...here are some links...

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a4_5reaxfeb26,0,3153795.story?coll=all-newslocal-hed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4953-2004Feb25.html

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2004-02-25-greenspan-cuts_x.htm

This one is his statement in front of the federal reserve. The Social Security stuff is about 1/2 way down....

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/testimony/2004/20040225/default.htm

[moosmom]

Quoted by Greenspan:


History has shown that, when faced with major challenges, elected officials have risen to the occasion. In particular, over the past twenty years or so, the prospect of large deficits has generally led to actions to narrow them. I trust that the recent deterioration in the budget outlook and the fast-approaching retirement of the baby-boom generation will be met with similar determination and effectiveness.

Risen to the occasion? Yeah, is that before or AFTER those scumsucking politicians vote themselves a nice hefty raise in THEIR pay, voting NO for a federal unemployment extension, while those of us who are having difficulty finding ANY type of job are forced to apply for assistance???

I think I'm going to be sick!!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by trayi52
Is this going to happen or is it? Is Greenspan going to get his way? Does he usually? Or this being an election year just going to mean he is beating a dead horse with a whatever you beat a dead horse with?

I am serious, Are they going to cut What we are getting now in half? My brother in law keeps saying yeap they have done made it law! I keep saying not law yet.

Well? Anybody?Answers? Congress would have to vote on any changes. At least they always have to vote on OUR LITTLE 1% (APPROX $10 a month) increase, then the President would have to sign it. (I always wonder how big a laugh they get over that. I'm sure there are lots of snickers anyway.)

Most of us in my town, can hardly make it now. We are so far below the poverty level we can't even see the top.

NEWS FLASH FOR ALL POLITICIANS AND LAW MAKERS:
If our SS was enough we could live on, we wouldn't need extra programs like the help with heating program, food programs and such.

If they want to trim the budget, cut out all saleries for out of office senators and house members. Why should they still receive even a small salary now they are out of office. Let them get a job like the rest of the country.

[trayi52]

Yes, and I would also like to ask them to trade places with us for, oh say 6 months. Just 6 months, let them try and pay electric bills, food bills, telephone bills, etc. You know just the neccessties of life. See if they could live on what we have to live on!

That is probably just piggy bank money to those a**holes though. They could not live like that. I doulbledog dare them to try! Those wussies, couldn't! They don' t any of those a**wipes have the jewls to do it.

They stand up there in their big expensive suits, and want to take the food out of other people's mouth to put those fancy threads on their backs! I swear, I hate politicians!!! :mad:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by trayi52
Yes, and I would also like to ask them to trade places with us for, oh say 6 months. Just 6 months, let them try and pay electric bills, food bills, telephone bills, etc. You know just the neccessties of life. See if they could live on what we have to live on!
Several years ago, the powers that be in Kansas, decided to live on food stamps for a month or two to prove that people could live on it. Only food bought with the stamps was allowed. Keep in mind that only food could be purchased. No toilet paper etc. The 'experiment' was quickly hushed up when they couldn't do it!

[lizbud]

Hey folks, don't shoot the messenger.:) Greenspan is just
"telling it like it is". I think he's been way to subtle so far in
getting the financial picture of this country across to the people
in Washington... More bad news guys.......


Taxpayers' Fannies on the line
Failure looms for inadequately regulated mortgage giants


AUSTIN, Texas -- Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have gone and gotten themselves in big trouble. For those of you who do not follow the business pages, I only wish we were talking about pregnant teen-agers. Fannie and Freddie are the two government-sponsored mortgage companies that help most of us buy homes. Trouble is, they've run themselves into big-time debt -- they've doubled the amount they owe in just the last five years. When I say big-time, try $2 trillion. And guess who's on the hook if these things go under? Congratulations, taxpayers.
This week, Alan Greenspan, the Great Pooh-Bah of the financial world, opined in his usual Delphic style before the Senate Banking Committee, "To fend off possible future systemic difficulties, which we assess as likely if the expansion continues unabated, preventive actions are required sooner rather than later." The Wall Street Journal helpfully translates this as, "Act quickly." Hard to tell with Greenspan: I yield to the Journal's long experience in Greenspan translation, but it could also mean, "Push the panic button now!"

What we have here is the same thing that happened after the famous S&L deregulation in the 1980s -- privatized profit and socialized risk. You may recall that little adventure in deregulation -- the universal panacea according to the right -- cost the taxpayers half a trillion dollars.

Fannie and Freddie were created by Congress as private companies to encourage home ownership and -- in theory, on paper -- the taxpayers aren't responsible if they go bust ... but they're literally too big to fail. Unfortunately, the markets have always assumed Fannie and Freddie's debt was guaranteed by the U.S. government. Should they go under and the government not pay, it would be as though the United States government were defaulting on a sort of low-level debt. All that would do is cause financial collapse and chaos and probably worldwide depression, but try not to think about it too long.

On the other hand, the people responsible for all this have already been thinking about it too long. For over a year now, Fannie and Freddie's pickle has been obvious, and the experts on the financial pages have been writing, "Do Something," for ages.

The fiscal irresponsibility of this so-called CEO-administration is a source of constant wonder. This potential financial crisis is racing toward us like a tidal wave, gaining strength as it comes. Are they actually going to stand there like Alfred E. Neuman, saying, "What, me worry?"

Of course, the conservatives think the thing to do is privatize the companies, and the liberals think the thing to do is regulate them. I don't see where privatizing gets us any further. Oh, to be sure, in the long run, market discipline would work like a charm, but one reason I'm a Keynesian is the old boy's observation, "In the long run, we'll all be dead." And dead-broke, too, if these things default.

Seems to me Fannie and Freddie's mess is the perfect argument FOR government regulation, and not just of the two giant mortgage companies. These GSE's (gobbledygook for "government-sponsored entities") have been hedging their debt risks through hedge funds, which are in turn almost entirely unregulated. Greenspan warns that Fannie and Freddie's debt could soon be larger than the federal government's. Think about it. Remember what happened when one large hedge fund, Long-Term Capital Management, started to go under? Ooops.

You know, when a bleeding heart liberal like me has to sit around lecturing a Republican administration on fiscal responsibility, we're in a sorry pass. I watch the entire corporate and financial structure of this country running around raising money like crazy for the re-election of George W. Bush, and I am reminded once more that capitalism will destroy itself if you let it.

Congress has already failed in its oversight responsibilities by letting the companies get into this mess. The Center for Responsive Politics reports Fannie and Freddie contributed $6.5 million to federal campaigns in 2002. Fannie has hired 14 lobbying firms, and Freddie 26. They spent $9.7 million on lobbying in the first six months of last year. According to Ralph Nader (always a reliable source in these matters, no matter what his political judgment), "The board of directors on staff of Fannie and Freddie have always been populated by former officials and political activists from both the Republican and Democratic parties who are given huge pay packages."

The Bushies want to put regulation of the GSEs in the Treasury Department and abolish the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, the independent agency whose sole responsibility is monitoring the GSEs. Moving regulation to Treasury would make the GSEs even more political and even more apparently creatures of government. In typical Republican fashion, the small agency now handling the job has been starved for funds.

This is the great Gingrich ploy -- don't give a regulatory agency enough money to do its job, and then when things come unstuck, announce that regulation doesn't work.

Molly Ivins
Creators Syndicate
02.26.04

[catnapper]

lizbud, should we all dive for cover now? Geesh, that is much more information than I ever knew and more than enough to keep me awake at night.

As it is, my family is struggling to breathe... we are definately the working poor. We have little to near nothing in the fridge or pantry and often wonder what we were going to eat for dinner - or even when we'd be able to get more food. Let me tell you, I'm so very sick of spaghetti! If things get worse... as Ricky Ricardo says "eye-yi-yi!"

*Leaves to go find a cozy closet to hide in.;)

[moosmom]

Lizbud,

Thanks for that little "snipit" of information. You just reaffirmed my total distain for politicians.

Catnapper,


As it is, my family is struggling to breathe... we are definately the working poor. We have little to near nothing in the fridge or pantry and often wonder what we were going to eat for dinner - or even when we'd be able to get more food. Let me tell you, I'm so very sick of spaghetti! If things get worse... as Ricky Ricardo says "eye-yi-yi!"

*Leaves to go find a cozy closet to hide in.

I can't WAIT to see what Michigan Family Assistance has in store for me!! I'm like the Old Mother Hubbard of Michigan. Even my cats eat better than I do!!! :eek: I supposed if I ask nicely, they'll share. Hummph!!

Got any room in that cozy closet??? Move over!!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Ok, show of hands:
How many think Greenspan will apply for SS when he is able, assuming it's still there?
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D

[mugsy]

He is able...he's something like 78 years old.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by mugsy
He is able...he's something like 78 years old. OOPS!!!
I wonder if he takes it? :D

[mugsy]

I kind of doubt it....he and his wife (Andrea Mitchell, reporter for one of the networks) make plenty 'o money....I have a feeling that if he did, there would be such an outcry that he would drop it! lol

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Social Security bugs me in first place. I'd prefer to be in charge of my own retirement. The idea that I need to give it to them for them to manage doesn't sit well with me.
I do a fine job planning for that part of my life without the govt.

I agree ... for me personally. I would have no problem managing my money, and living off of it when I got old. However ... the reason that this will never work is that the vast majority of people these days cannot manage their money. Look at the huge increase in personal debt, credit cards, car payments. The majority of people live beyond their means. Acquisition and possesion without regard to cost has become the new American dream. These people, left on their own, would not only not have one thin dime to retire on, they would have mountains of debt, as well. Then what? Let them starve? Our society does not do that - so the government would have to support them. At least now, they have to pay in to Social Security, and get it back when they retire. If we did away with Social Security tax, then they would be paying nothing to government, and collecting welfare when they retired. The government would be paying the money out anyway, no matter what you call it, but it wouldn't have any money coming in.




Amazing how dependent we have become on the program in less than 70 years on the program.

We have become dependent on it, but I don't think it is a direct cause and effect relationship. I think other things have changed in this country that have contributed as well. We have changed from an agricultural base to an industrial base. We have gone from staying put, near our extended families, to moving far away. So, a hundred years ago, mom and dad homesteaded a farm, had a dozen or so kids, and when they got old, they had nothing to worry about. All the kids stayed on or near the old homestead, and took over the hard jobs. Mom and dad were supported in their old age by their kids and grandkids working the farm. Now, mom and dad work for companies in the city that may or may not remain solvent, may or may not have a viable retirement program. They had two or three kids, who moved across the country and have their own lives to live, as they see it. Children no longer seem to feel the obligation to care for their parents as they once did.




If they would stop giving benefits to illegal aliens that would help.

Amen! Amen! Amen!

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
the reason that this will never work is that the vast majority of people these days cannot manage their money. Look at the huge increase in personal debt, credit cards, car payments. The majority of people live beyond their means. Acquisition and possesion without regard to cost has become the new American dream. These people, left on their own, would not only not have one thin dime to retire on, they would have mountains of debt, as well. Then what? Let them starve? Our society does not do that - so the government would have to support them. At least now, they have to pay in to Social Security, and get it back when they retire. If we did away with Social Security tax, then they would be paying nothing to government, and collecting welfare when they retired. The government would be paying the money out anyway, no matter what you call it, but it wouldn't have any money coming in.


I suppose I am very cold about this, but I have no sympathy for this person you describe Twisterdog. And, if it were up to me, they would indeed be left to starve. Work and learn to save like the rest of us. Don't purchase what you can't afford to pay for. Good thing for them I'm not President! lol

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I suppose I am very cold about this, but I have no sympathy for this person you describe Twisterdog. And, if it were up to me, they would indeed be left to starve. Work and learn to save like the rest of us. Don't purchase what you can't afford to pay for. Good thing for them I'm not President! lol

Oh, I absolutely agree with you, 100%. One generation of letting them starve would be all it would take to shape up all the following generations, IMO. My view: if you are able to work, and you don't work, you don't eat. If you do work, and blow your money, you don't eat. Waaaahhh.

However ... we know that isn't going to happen. No more than it is going to happen with all the people on welfare that don't need/deserve it. We are a welfare state, whether we deny it or not.

[Sirrahsim]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
My view: if you are able to work, and you don't work, you don't eat. If you do work, and blow your money, you don't eat. Waaaahhh.

Woohoo! I agree with you completely. Plus the whole illegal alien thing bothers me. I vote for closing the borders :D :p I'm tired of going to an amusement park and then having to search for hours and "talk" to hundreds of employees before I can find one that speaks English enough to tell me where the stinking bathroom is. Does anyone else ever have the urge to shout "You're in America, speak English like the rest of us"? I have the feeling that THAT sentiment is a global thing. I try my best to speak Japanese when I'm off base, but the looks that i get when my japanese fails me are unmistakable "You're in Japan, speak Japanese"

[catnapper]

Originally posted by Sirrahsim
Does anyone else ever have the urge to shout "You're in America, speak English like the rest of us"? I have the feeling that THAT sentiment is a global thing. I try my best to speak Japanese when I'm off base, but the looks that i get when my japanese fails me are unmistakable "You're in Japan, speak Japanese"

God Yes! But I feel like such a racist when I think that. I'm not, but my ancestors had to learn english, so why not them? If I moved to Germany or France, or Mexico, I'd learnt he language so that I could get around easier, etc. It roasts my butt that people are filing in, accepting free food, free this and free that. If we just stopped giving it to them, they might slink back under the rock they came from. They weren't getting hand-outs in their home country so they come here to get handouts from us, courtesy our Social Security and taxes. YIPPIE! I love working hard for some bum.

America is a wonderful place, but we are cow-towing to illegal immigrants fro some reason. Why? We will most likely never receive the kind of money and support the illegal immigrants are.

When I went to change my Social Security number to my married name, I was just about the only English speaking person in a room full of non-english. The English lines were non-existant while the spanish lines went out the door.

[2kitties]

While I personally feel everyone should learn english, it is important to note that our constitution does not declare any national language- english or otherwise. The United States does not have a national language. English is simply the most popular.

[RICHARD]

screw it..

Iksnay on the earningplay of nglisheay.

akemay veryoneeay earn ig atinlay..


THAT will fix em.

[Logan]

LOL!!! Richard, only you would come up with "Pig Latin" to lighten the moment!!!! :D

[Twisterdog]

I vote for closing the borders

I second that vote.

[moosmom]

I think one of the requirements before even getting of the boat is to LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH!!!

[trayi52]

I went to an auction tonight, and these guys were speaking mexican. I told them ' why don't you speak enlish, this is America'.

They just acted like they didn't hear me, or maybe they didn't understand?

Willie

[LauralG]

:) I have to put my two cents worth on this one good post. I'm a single parent and I'm working very hard to get off social security I have two part time jobs cause there is very little full time jobs out here I'm trying very hard to get off it myself. It is hard wondering when your broke when the next meal will come from. They are cutting people down on there income as of Aprill out in British Columbia. There are alot of less people right now and I feel for each and every one of them. I'm happy I built on my two part time jobs cause if they cut me off at leaste I have that but it will be very tight around here. It's hard. I'd rather them cut me off because then I don't have to go by their rules any more I'm so sick of it. It's hard all over. Trayi52 I hear ya. I feel for the single parents out here in British Columbia who do try their best to get off social secirity. I may be picking up anouther third part time job just for extra money. Thanks for posting this one.

I will be having new pics of loveable dusty soon.

Thanks Willie

[mugsy]

Well, back to SS, I still don't think that by the time I retire in 20+ years, Social Security will even be around. For that reason, I am really glad that I have my teacher's retirement and 403B and will have at least a little bit of insurance. I have something else that I don't know what it is, but, there will be at least something. Mike just started his 401K a few weeks ago, so we will have something when we retire...makes life REALLY tough now, but, we won't have to be on assistance when we retire (at least I hope not).

Greenspan is getting a lot of grief over his ideas, so we'll see what happens.

[trayi52]

mugsy, back when my husband and I was younger, and running a furniture mfg. company, we had a lousy bookkeeper, who did not suggest that we start a retirement fund. Which is something he should have mentioned to us in the first place. So we didn't do that.

Now as we thought that we would always have our business, that we would not have to worry. My husband got sick, has heart and lung problem, that are life threatening. We had to go bankrupt, because his brother did not know how to run the business. All we have to live on is Social Security. It is so hard, just trying to make ends meet! Thats all we have is Social Security.

I have told my kids to start some kind of retirement fund. Finally got my oldest daughter and her husband to start an IRA at least, so they could take their tax refunds and contribute to it before April 15. I had a teacher in my Federal income tax class in college suggest that, and he worked for the the IRS.

At least the kids has started to think about that now, and my son-in-law has got a retirement fund of some kind started where he works now also.

Just wish we would have had somebody tell us that when we were younger and making soo much more money. Now it is too late for us.

Willie