Ugh... WTF????

[micki76]

Bush calls for an amendment to the constitution for same sex marriage ban.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/24/elec04.prez.bush.marriage/index.html

[dukedogsmom]

Interesting. Another touchy subject. I don't personally agree with same sex marriages but does that mean we should forbid everyone to do it just because it doesn't set right with us?

[slick]

I'm in total agreement with same-sex marriages. I believe the love two men (or two women) share can be just as deep and loving as a heterosexual couple. Why not let them share the bond of marriage??

[2kitties]

I am not offended by homosexuality in the least. I do not believe it is the right of the government to enforce its morals on the populace. I think if two people want to marry legally, they should be able to marry legally.

Homosexual couples are not looking for religious acceptance here. They are looking for legal acceptance and the right to have an heir. This is America where there is a separation of Church and State, right? Two human beings, pledging their lives to one another. End of story. As it stands, two men can love one another and share their entires lives, yet when one is on life support, they are unable to make decisions for their partner. When one dies, the other is not entitled to the social security. It just isn't the government's business to morally judge this way. If a church doesn't want to marry gays- then fine. They don't have to. But a judge should. The law should be colorblind, genderblind and without homophobia. Some might say we treat murderers and child molesters with more respect than two homosexuals.

I think commitment and longevity of marriage can't be any worse with gays than with straight people. Lord know's we've made a big enough mess of marriage and child rearing. For straights to say their better at it is rediculous.

Whew, sorry to rant. This is huge for me. Thanks for bringing it up. This has been bugging me since it got in the news.

AND I'm a republican!

[ramanth]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I am not offended by homosexuality in the least. I do not believe it is the right of the government to enforce its morals on the populace. I think if two people want to marry legally, they should be able to marry legally.

Ditto!

[catland]

I think its nothing but an election-year ploy by Bush. I also think its a mis-use of the constitition.

[catnapper]

Why does everybody keep playing this old subject? Who cares? What goes on behind closed doors is THEIR business, not ours. I happen to love my husband and would fight tooth and nail if somebody told me our love was wrong... why do people think that same-sex relationships would work any differently? Who has the right to say what makes someone else happy?

I do not find this a moral issue in the least. It is merely an issue of two people being happy together. People get enraged when the issue of <ahem> relations enter the debate. I'm sure the most prim and proper person has something they condemn in public but enjoy behind closed doors. We are human, we are far from perfect. If you are going to quote the Bible as form of rebuttal or proof of its wrong-ness, then "let he has not sinned cast the first stone."

[Logan]

I tried, twice, to comment, and I failed, both times. I just try to be open minded about this subject.

Today, one of my favorite people on another site showed pictures of her wedding dress, and also the wedding dress of her partner. That was a test for me, as I didn't know that she was involved in a homosexual relationship, nor that she was planning a wedding.

Maybe I'm old fashioned. Maybe George Bush is too, but at least he knows where he stands, which I have yet to grasp for myself. I want to be accepting, but I don't understand it all yet. :o

[micki76]

Originally posted by catnapper
Why does everybody keep playing this old subject? Who cares? What goes on behind closed doors is THEIR business, not ours. I happen to love my husband and would fight tooth and nail if somebody told me our love was wrong... why do people think that same-sex relationships would work any differently? Who has the right to say what makes someone else happy?


I'll tell you what my fanatically Christian in-laws say. They say it's a sin. But then I point out that so is adultery, drinking (to them), so is envy, cussing in their book will send you straight to hell. LMAO. ( They just love me BTW :D ) None of which require a constitutional amendment. I am a Christian, too. Just a different (read: more tolerant, as Jesus wants us to be) Christian than they are.

I personally think that if two consenting adults can find love, then more power to them! Who the hell cares if they're the same sex, different sexes or two hermaphrodites? Jeez!!

[wolfie]

That's so stupid! Who cares if the couple is homosexual or heterosexual?

posted by 2kitties:
"The law should be colorblind, genderblind and without homophobia."

I agree.

[cubby31682]

I have to agree with almost everyone else here. If they want to get married let them. I think, (which this might be over the top) if two people want to get married let them or don't let anyone at all. We are in the USA the land of the free. The person you love and want to marry shouldn't be questioned by are government. If a gay man or women wants to get a job and they can't because they are gay that is against the law. Getting married should be the same way. I know at least 2 gay people and they are one of the nicest and funniest people that I have ever met. Just because they are gay doesn't make them less of a person than we are. JMO

Katie

[catnapper]

Originally posted by Logan
I tried, twice, to comment, and I failed, both times. I just try to be open minded about this subject. I want to be accepting, but I don't understand it all yet. :o

I understand. I grew up in a very close-minded family. I don't know where I came from, as my family is biggoted and opinionated.

When I entered college, it was quite a culture shock. I had never met a gay person, let alone became friends with them. I am an interior designer, so I got used to working with gay men real fast - stereo-typical, I know, but true. I worked for the world's best boss. He happened to be gay. I loved him and his "husband" I told them that if they ever broke up, that I was more than willing to take the the ex (oooh, he was as sweet as he was good looking!)

I lived with my parents and when it was time to move out and move on, a gay coworker and I wanted to get an appartment together... when I saw that he wanted the two largest rooms (one for him, the other for his clothes) I declined:D He was my best friend for a while and introduced me to the gay culture - I was what they call the "fag-hag" sounds funny, but it was said affectionately. At that time in my life, I needed to have relationships with men that were "safe" as I was hurt very badly in love. I could flirt and laugh and not worry about being attacked at the end of the night.

What I learned was that they are human just like us with all the same wants, needs, desires. Its just that what fulfills their desires is different from ours. They never judged me for being attracted to men... imagine the world being reversed and that "gay was the way" and imagine how you'd feel if the gay world condemned you for being straight.

This issue is very near and dear to my heart because it was my experiences with my gay friends and coworkers that taught me the most about myself and life.

[micki76]

Originally posted by catnapper
I was what they call the "fag-hag" sounds funny, but it was said affectionately. At that time in my life, I needed to have relationships with men that were "safe" as I was hurt very badly in love. I could flirt and laugh and not worry about being attacked at the end of the night.

This issue is very near and dear to my heart because it was my experiences with my gay friends and coworkers that taught me the most about myself and life.

LOL, I am the ultimate Fag Hag! Please people don’t get mad, this is what my gay friends call straight women who hang out with gay men. I just adore my gay friends.

I agree that having gay friends has made me a more sensitive and open minded person. Just to be a small part of the lives of nice people, whether gay or straight is a privilege. needless to say, the in-laws hyperventilate if I mention my gay friends around my sister in laws kids. That's so sad to me. They freak if I even mention Will & Grace or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Their kind of intolerant 'Christianity' makes me sick. :mad:

So Logan, I think it's wonderful that you're trying becoming more open to things like this, things that you don't understand or that are outside of your comfort zone. :)

[kevinrats]

Ahh yes. Another Christian hating thread. How original.

First off, don't give me this. Did you know that Muslims, Hindus and all other religions also condemn gay marriage? Did you also know that no culture or religion in the history of the world has condoned gay marriage? Hmmm...could there be a reason for that? But, wait, let's just blame all christians okay? It's easier that way. And it's very original.

Bush is not changing the constitution. The constitution has always defined marriage as a bond between a man and a woman. Always.

This is honestly way overplayed.

[joycenalex]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kevinrats
Bush is not changing the constitution. The constitution has always defined marriage as a bond between a man and a woman. Always.

ahh, kevin, which amendment in the constution are you citing?

[Corinna]

I have a few gay friends. I too enjoy being with them. But first marraige was "invented" in the bible so it is a religous ceramony. a civil uioun is a govenmental and legal part . So a wedding is a relious ceramony, so it is a moral situation. I have lots of stright friends who have a civil ceramiony.
Logan I too am old fashioned, my gay friends all accept my ideas we just don't talk about it and I don't comment on their lifestyles . we just enjoy the company of each person in the group.

[anna_66]

This must be why I seen a sign on a nearby church that says:

"God made Adam & Even, not Adam & Steve"

I just couldn't believe it:(

I personally don't have a problem with it. If your in love, who cares what sex you are.

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Ahh yes. Another Christian hating thread. How original.

First off, don't give me this. Did you know that Muslims, Hindus and all other religions also condemn gay marriage? Did you also know that no culture or religion in the history of the world has condoned gay marriage? Hmmm...could there be a reason for that? But, wait, let's just blame all christians okay? It's easier that way. And it's very original.

Bush is not changing the constitution. The constitution has always defined marriage as a bond between a man and a woman. Always.

This is honestly way overplayed.

Frankly, I don't care about Christianity, Muslim, Hinduism or whatever. Seriously, they mean so little to me I could care less.

What I do care about is two people in this war torn, hectic, violent world. Two people who care enough about each other to make a commitment to be true and faithful to each other. To care for each other in sickness, hard times and adversity. If these two people happen to be the same sex I could care less and frankly it's no one else's business. More power to them for their strength and conviction.

They are people and Americans and they deserve legal rights, too. They shouldn't be treated like second class citizens just because they don't live the way you want them to.

JMHO

[kevinrats]

Sorry, I got my words mixed up. Scratch that last part.

[kevinrats]

Chesirekatt, thats what you believe.

I just have one more thing. If what people do behind closed doors stays there, and its "their own private" business, then why are we fighting over it? If that was true, then why are gay people fighting? Shouldn't they just stay behind closed doors? Its not behind closed doors, its out in the open, and people have made it everyone's business.

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Chesirekatt, thats what you believe.

I just have one more thing. If what people do behind closed doors stays there, and its "their own private" business, then why are we fighting over it? If that was true, then why are gay people fighting? Shouldn't they just stay behind closed doors? Its not behind closed doors, its out in the open, and people have made it everyone's business.

Firstly, I'd suggest when you address someone you make sure to spell their name correctly.

Secondly, there are legal rights and ramifications that come with marriage. People need legal protection should something happen to their spouse. This is the issue.

BTW: Welcome to PT.

[kevinrats]

From what I've heard though, (if I'm wrong, don't rub it in my face too much) gay partners get almost all the benefits of marriage.


Yes, don't you love idiots like me? I'm sure I'm such a pleasure to have on the forum. Sorry. I love you guys! :D

[dukedogsmom]

Ah, gotta love that ignore feature.

[kevinrats]

Ouch!

[trayi52]

I am one that honestly can say that I am not going to put somebody down because of what they believe or who the prefer to love. Love is love, no matter who it is. I hate broken hearts!

There is just too many things going on against the homosexual population. Just like with the one friend of one of our members who was beaten because he preferred his own sex. Sorry, but I just don't believe in violence. When they are beaten to the point that they are almost dead, tell me how is that right?? My god, this is a human being beaten to death for something that he or she believes. IMO, its just as wrong, NO! Its more wrong to murder and practice violence! Nobody deserves this kind of treatment!

I say let them live their own lives! LIVE! And Love! Whoever you want to love, I am not going to judge who you pick to be your partner for life. My god, even some of us with children don't like who they pick out to marry! I would love to pick out who my daughter married, but then she would not be happy with the person I picked out! That is what I want for my children, happiness!

Willie

[Logan]

I want to thank those of you who responded to my post. It is hard for me. I am conservative in nature, and this subject is hard for me. I don't have openly "gay" friends. Although one of my best friends has a daughter who is gay, and I enjoy being around her and her partner and have never waivered in that.

I support our President, and I appreciate the fact that he is much more grounded in his beliefs than I am. :o I'm going to try to figure it all out, but either way, I will never pass judgement on anyone. I promise.

[catnapper]

Take away the whole taboo aspect of this being gay. We are talking about two human beings that want to share everything life has to offer. Let me try to put the legal aspect of it into proportion:
I am married to a wonderful man that was married before. His first marriage produced three kids. the first wife decided she liked BOTH men and women and left him to play with both. She gave up complete control of the kids. She was responsible for Child Support. Well, ten years later, she has remarried too and has decided not to pay her child support even though she is still legally responsible. She is over $20,000 behind in CS. She hasn't seen or contacted the kids in over three years. When I try to contact the courts to find out why she hasn't been paying, and why she's not being investigated, I am told that I am nobody because the case does not conern me. How? I am in this marriage. I live with these kids and am raising them as my own. I spend all of my time, money, love on them. How could I possiby be nothing? Simple: the laws are written in such a way that I have no power and am not recognised. Sure, I am married to my husband (duh) but my rights regarding the children are nil, and that sucks. I am not asking to take the kids away from her - she can come see them if she wanted to. I'm asking for the right to fight for what the kids deserve from her. My husband is so hurt by this woman that he lets her walk all over him... he knows that he needs me to fight since I have not been hurt in that way.... but I am useless. My hands are tied.

Imagine now, if your whole relationship was that way.

[Logan]

Good point, Catnapper. I have a similar situation, in that I can do nothing in regards to my husband's ex and the decisions about his children either. Darn it! I am opinionated and want to state my case! Although I go through nothing like you do, I still completely understand the comparison you are making and that's why I'm ok with "unions" between two people, regardless of their sex, so that they can be recogognized in legal proceedings, insurance, medical emergencies, etc. It's just the official "marriage" part that I am having trouble with. :o But I'm trying.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I tried not to respond but couldn't do it. I have no strong feelings about the issue of gay marriages, but I do have strong feelings about facts so....

at this time the US Constitution says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about marriage or marriage being between a man and a woman. Nothing, nada, nil.

Does a homosexual couple enjoy the sames rights as a married heterosexual couple? NO. I am married. If I or my husband becomes incapacitated we have the right to visit each other in the hospital, make decisions about the care of each other. A gay couple does not.

My husband and I file a joint tax return and enjoy tax benefits as a result.

Our employers can offer us spousal coverage on medical, dental, etc. benefits. IF an employer offers such coverage to the partner of a gay employee, it is taxable income to the employee.

If I or my husband die without a will, there are rules that govern the estate and enable us to inherit with minimal effort. Not so if we were not married.

The issue is what is the definition of marriage? Is it like a corporation -- that is establishing a legal entity -- or a religious ceremony? or some combination of both? And what is the governments role regarding marriage?

Rather than react from a religious or emotional perspective I would like to see a debate on the definition of a marriage.

[Tonya]

I am much more offended by these fly by Hollywood marriages and the little value that people have today in marriage. I read an article on two 80 somthing year old women who had been together for 51 years and they were finally able to marry. It touched my heart, and made me sad that they had to wait that long. I don't care who gets married to whom. As long as it is done out of love and there are values and effort put into the marriage.

[catnapper]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
I tried not to respond but couldn't do it. I have no strong feelings about the issue of gay marriages, but I do have strong feelings about facts so....

at this time the US Constitution says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about marriage or marriage being between a man and a woman. Nothing, nada, nil.

Does a homosexual couple enjoy the sames rights as a married heterosexual couple? NO. I am married. If I or my husband becomes incapacitated we have the right to visit each other in the hospital, make decisions about the care of each other. A gay couple does not.

My husband and I file a joint tax return and enjoy tax benefits as a result.

Our employers can offer us spousal coverage on medical, dental, etc. benefits. IF an employer offers such coverage to the partner of a gay employee, it is taxable income to the employee.

If I or my husband die without a will, there are rules that govern the estate and enable us to inherit with minimal effort. Not so if we were not married.

The issue is what is the definition of marriage? Is it like a corporation -- that is establishing a legal entity -- or a religious ceremony? or some combination of both? And what is the governments role regarding marriage?

Rather than react from a religious or emotional perspective I would like to see a debate on the definition of a marriage.

Beautifully said!

[Tonya]

BTW, I am a Christian, as well as most of my family. None of us have a problem with homosexuality. I don't think it is anyone's place to judge. IF homosexuality is a sin, I will leave that between God and the people. I'd much rather discover that my son is gay then that he's commited violent crimes, used drugs, etc...If a person's biggest sin is loving another...then they've done pretty dang good.

[trayi52]

I'd much rather discover that my son is gay then that he's commited violent crimes, used drugs, etc...If a person's biggest sin is loving another...then they've done pretty dang good.

Well said Tonya!

[cloverfdx]

Well said Tonya :D

Not able to comment at the moment but will do so later.

[micki76]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Ahh yes. Another Christian hating thread. How original.

First off, don't give me this. Did you know that Muslims, Hindus and all other religions also condemn gay marriage? Did you also know that no culture or religion in the history of the world has condoned gay marriage? Hmmm...could there be a reason for that? But, wait, let's just blame all christians okay? It's easier that way. And it's very original.

Bush is not changing the constitution. The constitution has always defined marriage as a bond between a man and a woman. Always.

This is honestly way overplayed.

Just in case this was directed at me, since I brought up the Christianity issues, this is what I said:


Originally posted by micki76
I'll tell you what my fanatically Christian in-laws say. They say it's a sin. But then I point out that so is adultery, drinking (to them), so is envy, cussing in their book will send you straight to hell. LMAO. ( They just love me BTW :D ) None of which require a constitutional amendment. I am a Christian, too. Just a different (read: more tolerant, as Jesus wants us to be) Christian than they are.

I personally think that if two consenting adults can find love, then more power to them! Who the hell cares if they're the same sex, different sexes or two hermaphrodites? Jeez!!

Notice that I'm a Christian too? ;) Weird for me to start a self hating thread, huh?

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by Tonya
BTW, I am a Christian, as well as most of my family. None of us have a problem with homosexuality. I don't think it is anyone's place to judge. IF homosexuality is a sin, I will leave that between God and the people. I'd much rather discover that my son is gay then that he's commited violent crimes, used drugs, etc...If a person's biggest sin is loving another...then they've done pretty dang good.

my family is the same way tonya.. my parents dont agree with same sex marriges though.. i am kinda iffy about it.. but i dont have a prob with same sex couples.

[Fox-Gal]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary

Does a homosexual couple enjoy the sames rights as a married heterosexual couple? NO. I am married. If I or my husband becomes incapacitated we have the right to visit each other in the hospital, make decisions about the care of each other. A gay couple does not.

My husband and I file a joint tax return and enjoy tax benefits as a result.

Our employers can offer us spousal coverage on medical, dental, etc. benefits. IF an employer offers such coverage to the partner of a gay employee, it is taxable income to the employee.

If I or my husband die without a will, there are rules that govern the estate and enable us to inherit with minimal effort. Not so if we were not married.


This is the reason I belive they should be alowed to marry.

I have some friends, life partners for 22 years, when one them was shot in the line of duty (law officer) my friend was left with nothing for her 22 years of faithfull love. She had no rights at the hospital, they had to wait till family members flew in. There was no benefits for her, that other officers spouses recive. For 22 year she was rewarded with nothing, but the lose of her loved one. It was so hard to watch her go through this, she loved Sue as I love my husband and who's to say that she doesn't deserve the same rights, I or my husband have if one of us passed. Just because they where both female does not take away from their bond or thier 22 years as partners.

Intill I went through this with her, I would have said "Whats the big deal, just live toghter and be happy no piece of paper can make a difference" Boy was I wrong back then, that little piece of paper would have made a big difference in their lifes.

[Kfamr]

Where in the heck did that person pull "Christian Hating" out of?

I read every single post, and I did not see one person even seems as if they hated Christians.



I see nothing wrong with same sex marriages. I am offended and see something wrong with the people, like Britney and J.Lo playing marriage as if it's a game. It's not.


Honestly, i've never labeled or considered myself Gay, but if I was to fall in love with another female, no religion's beliefs, homophobes and so on are going to stop me from loving that person.


I really don't see why some religions think of it badly. If two people of the same sex want to marry, want to love eachother, how is it going to hurt them or anyone else?
It may 'break' their beliefs or break what 'God' says, but not everyone has the same beliefs. So there's no reason to stop them. Because no one's stopping them from believing in God.

[Twisterdog]

I fail to see why the heterosexual majority continues to feel so threatened by homosexuals? What is so fear-inducing or threatening about a gay couple, that the heterosexual community has to get so worked up about them?

If homosexuality is a "sin" as your religion defines it, then so be it. That is a matter that God will address on judgement day. I doubt very seriously that God needs anyone's assistance to define what is or is not a sin. There are many "sins" that do not require Constitutional amendments in this country. In addition, there is no official state religion in the USA. Separation of church and state should apply. Legislating one group's morality has never worked. Prohibition is one example.

Why would a same-sex marriage possibly have any effect on any heterosexual person in the country? How would anyone possibly be affected negatively by this? We are all only affected by our own marriages. If Mary and John get married, does it affect you somehow? No. If Steve and John get married, does it affect you somehow? No.

There are heterosexual couples making a mockery out of the word "marriage" every day. There will be same-sex couples doing the same thing. There are same-sex couples who have been loving, faithful partners for decades, and would be wonderful marriage partners. There are heterosexual couples that are the same. What's the difference, to you and me?

I would personally MUCH rather live next door to a gainfully employed, law-abiding same-sex married couple any time, than a house full of screeching white trash or a crack house.

In the past, women were not allowed to vote or own property. They had no legal rights. The Bible says this is how it should be. Thankfully, our nation's leaders were a little more open minded than that. In the past, interracial marriage was not allowed, schools were segregated, "witches" were burned at the stake. Banning same-sex marriage is the 21st century version of these dark issues. Hopefully, it won't take too terribly long to see the light.

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
Why would a same-sex marriage possibly have any effect on any heterosexual person in the country? How would anyone possibly be affected negatively by this? We are all only affected by our own marriages. If Mary and John get married, does it affect you somehow? No. If Steve and John get married, does it affect you somehow? No.

There are heterosexual couples making a mockery out of the word "marriage" every day. There will be same-sex couples doing the same thing. There are same-sex couples who have been loving, faithful partners for decades, and would be wonderful marriage partners. There are heterosexual couples that are the same. What's the difference, to you and me?

Amen! Amen! Amen!

I consider myself christian although I'm not exactly 'traditional' and don't attend church regularly but I do have my beliefs and pray often. I have my own way to speak with god. With that said, I support same sex relationships/marriages. It's supposed to be a sin but god also wants you to be happy. Finding that special someone who means the world to you is hard enough. Why would you restrict them from certain things just because they've found someone else who's the same sex as them? Love is love. Marriage should be open to any couple regardless of sex. If two people are in love, why stop them from having the same privilages as same-sex couples?

[CathyBogart]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Did you also know that no culture or religion in the history of the world has condoned gay marriage?

THAT is the single biggest load of BS I have ever seen! Have you ever taken a cultural anthropology or a human sexuality class?

There are many cultures where homosexuality is accepted and/or encouraged, past AND present!

The ancient Greeks believed that humans used to be double-creatures, with four arms and four legs. The gods feared these creatures and split them in two. They said that each person spent his or her entire life earching for their other half. Guess what? Some of these were male-male, some female-female, and some female-male.

In Melanesia, homosexuality is practised ritually among the men.

I could come up with more examples with very little research if you want.

Also, homosexuality is found ALL OVER the animal kingdom. I think everyone should pick up and read "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity", it's really informative. So many species have same-sex vourtship and lifelong pair-bonding. Two male flamingos will mate for life, build nests together, and the females in the group will lay eggs in the nests of those males for them to raise.

Homosexuality is also found in primates, canines, felines, bears, equestrians, etc. It is a perfectly natural part of life. All life.

Even if homosexuality had been taboo in ALL past and present cultures....so were female rights, in most, up until recently. Heck, some countries still treat their women like property. Don't forget that women in this country couldn't vote until ~85 years ago. Because almost every culture in the world believed men superior, does that make it true? (i'm not some crazy feminist or anything, I just thought it was a good example)

I don't hate Christians. I hate closed-minded people, or people who want to cut off other peoples' happiness over something that doesn't affect them. Someone dear to me was having trouble recently with being Catholic and also being very socially liberal. He ended up deciding that it was OK and he's happy with his decisions, which are his to work out with his deity. After all, nobody will ever agree with anything 100%. If we did, life would be boring. :)

[dukedogsmom]

As posted in the other thread about abortion, these were resonably calm discussions until our hostile new member arrived. I've already used the wonderful ignore feature. If more of us would use it, we could stop these people before they start.

[Tonya]

You all made great points. Very well said, Twister.

I can relate, Fox-gal. I've always had aquaintances here and there that were homosexual. It didn't matter either way for me. I would have previously said "What's the big deal."

But I've became close friends with an honest hard working couple over the past few years. They have a son (long explanation) that is 13. Over the past five years that I've been close to them, I have seen them go through so much difficulty and heartache. It really made me think and respect homosexuality so much more. I could not imagine being in love with Mike, but not being able to discuss it with my family or friends. I could not imagine having to lie at work about a make believe boyfriend so that you don't get discriminated against. I could not imagine the heartache I'd feel if my child came home from baseball practice upset because he was treated unequally since he has two mothers. I couldn't imagine having the urge to hug or kiss my husband in front of my parents, yet not doing it "out of respect for them". I totally understand why there are gay pride parades and whatnot. It's where they can feel comfortable being themselves. -Not worry about being taunted or stared at.

And those things are all trivial compared to what could happen. If tragedy were to happen, I would feel so hopeless if I couldn't make decisions for my loved one. I may not even be allowed in the hospital room because I'm not a relative. And then, if something does happen, I may be left in the cold financially. Even though we'd shared a home together for many years. The list goes on and on.


I'm probably rambling and repeating what everyone else has said, sorry. I just feel really strongly about this. All I want to see is for people to marry for true love. Not for publicity, not on impulse, not just for financial gain...just marry for good old fasion love.

[catnapper]

Everyone is so eloquent!

I remember when my ex-boss went on a trip and reutrned all tan - with a hint of gold gleam on his left hand. His partner came in that moring and I pulled him aside, I asked, "what is that I see?" They got married on vacation! I was so happy for them! They had a lot of problems with families not accepting, that they decided to throw caution aside and just "do it." I can't imagine either man with a different person. They completed each other so perfectly.

I can't imagine what life would have been like if my family didn't approve of my husband... as it was, I knew my brother and his wife didn't like him too much. That hurt, so I can't imagine what it would be like if everybody in the world felt the same way.

I also think I'm the one who spurred the Christianity Hate comment. I mentioned the people who are compelled to quote the Bible. I felt it was a good point, and would say it again. Am I Christian? You bet. Very Catholic. I will at one point today get my ashes and not feel like a hypocrite. God just wants us to love one another. It is he that is to do the judging.

And, I have never used the ignore button. I just might elect the new guy be my first. I guess he chooses the "ignorance is bliss" way of stumbling through life.

[micki76]

Originally posted by catnapper
And, I have never used the ignore button. I just might elect the new guy be my first.

Don't worry, I use it enough for both of us! :p

[G.P.girl]

Originally posted by kevinrats


If that was true, then why are gay people fighting? Shouldn't they just stay behind closed doors?
are you trying to say we hould just lock them up like animals just so that people who don't agree with it don''t have to see them?

[2kitties]

Troll: noun

Person who stirs trouble for the laughter of it. Often antagonistic. Characteristics may include false identification. For example, one who bills himself as a 14 year old boy yet speaks the rhetoric of someone older. Clearly not who he says he is. Other characteristics may include social misfit who finds attention gaining outlets online.

Remedy for troll: Ignore feature.

[dukedogsmom]

Very well said, 2kitties!

[micki76]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Troll: noun

Person who stirs trouble for the laughter of it. Often antagonistic. Characteristics may include false identification. For example, one who bills himself as a 14 year old boy yet speaks the rhetoric of someone older. Clearly not who he says he is. Other characteristics may include social misfit who finds attention gaining outlets online.

Remedy for troll: Ignore feature.

Yep. Don't feed them and they will die off. :)

[CathyBogart]

Originally posted by Corinna
I have a few gay friends. I too enjoy being with them. But first marraige was "invented" in the bible so it is a religous ceramony. a civil uioun is a govenmental and legal part . So a wedding is a relious ceramony, so it is a moral situation. I have lots of stright friends who have a civil ceramiony.
Logan I too am old fashioned, my gay friends all accept my ideas we just don't talk about it and I don't comment on their lifestyles . we just enjoy the company of each person in the group.

The word Marriage perhaps. Handfastings and such, which are the same thing, have been around much longer.

[Denyce]

Ok once again. Wow. I just loved so many of these posts and the discussion. It is my understanding...and I am not well versed in the Bible..but marriage in the Bible is defined as a union before God between a man and a woman for the purpose of procreation.

Having said that...does that mean that marriages such as mine are invalid because we do not intend to procreate???:eek:

If not then...it is way past time to seperate the two. My husband and I were married by the Mayor of our little town of Port Matilda. It was a legal cival union that is binding. I don't see any reason whatsoever that the same can't be done for homosexual couples. We decided this because my husband is Jewish and I am Neo-pagan. We love one another and wish to spend our lives together. But you know what...we had to get married...he is also Canadian and I am American...and for him to remain here and work we HAD to be married. SO! My point in this rambling is if the government can insist 2 people perform a civil ceremony in order to be able to live and work in this country then they can darn well allow homosexuals to do the same.

Take the religon out of our government. It has no business being there at all!!! Leave the religon in the churches and the legality in the government.

Not sure if I said that right but....yea...that is what I mean...;)

Denyce

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by WolfChan


There are many cultures where homosexuality is accepted and/or encouraged, past AND present!


My stepbrother lives in Australia with the aboregenees (sp?) and all the men there are gay. The only reason they have intercourse with women is to reproduce.

[RICHARD]

To quote my momma,
Who has always put complex issues into simple, everyday adages - that are crude - and make a whole lot more sense than arguing specific points about an issue.

"who cares what anyone does, as long as they don't use my rear end......"

And, once again,

Why should 'gays' be made to miss all the great things about marriage?

Abuse, cheating, money problems, work issues, leaving the toilet seat up, cooking, laundry, dusting, taking the trash out.....

It's a non issue......let's take care of the Troops, the price of gas, kicking OBL's rear end and
those pesky weapons of mass destruction-----
Janet Jackson, Britney Spears, Kobe Bryant, Martha Stewart, Mike Eisner, Kenneth Lay and Alex Rodriguez, J-lo (LOLOLOLOLOL), Puff Nitwit and that wonderful Congressperson from New Mexico, the
"honorable" Heather Wilson......

[RICHARD]

Oops!

And the Catholic Church should have quite a bit to say about homosexuality......:eek:

After all, they are still 'paying' for it....

[catnapper]

Originally posted by Denyce
Having said that...does that mean that marriages such as mine are invalid because we do not intend to procreate???:eek:
Denyce

Boy under the Bible's definition, my husband and I are in an unlawful marriage too. We have the three kids from the first marriage. They are almost out of highschool... why on Earth would we want another 20 years of children when in 4 years we can be selfish and enjoy each other by ourselves.

Besides, I thought over-population was a world-wide epidemic. Marriage was set to protect the human race and inteneded to make it grow... grow we did! Now we have all sorts of problems of overcrowding, lack of food & Medicine... boy I'm swerving off topic, but you get my point.

Another side note: how many of you have actually read the Bible? Its actually pretty funny when you read starting at Genesis. There they describe in detail the contructon of the Earth. Later, we found out the Earth was round, not what those wise men said when the Bible was written. It was written as a form of explanation in a time when none other existed. It was written as a guide to help people make sense of things that seemed senseless. As we progress scientifically, I think that humanity needs to take a look at what is written and put it into context of WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN. We are human, we live and grow. Now, I don't want this debate to take a wild turn to bashing the Bible. invaluable lessons are taught in it.

[ILoveReptiles]

I feel inclined to add my two cents to this conversation. I have always thought that the government, being the morally challenged corrupt mass that it is, has NO right to be dictating what people should or should not do in their own private lives.

It enrages me that the Bush administration even thinks they have the right to push for this. What happened to freedom? It does not exist anymore. And so much for separation of Church and State.

As for Christianity and its views on marriage being valid/invalid due to the choice to procreate or not procreate, well, don't even get me STARTED on that B.S.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: !!!!

[trayi52]

Well said Richard!!

[Logan]

It seems that we all have an opinion about this matter, right or wrong, and the President obviously feels strongly too. He does not have the authority to make this decision on his own, obviously, but like all of us, he is standing up for what he believes, whether we agree with him or not. Just a thought. I suppose that even when you're President of the US, you're entitled to your opinion. :p

[2kitties]

How about we all go have a gay marriage then go watch The Passion- only if I can sit next to a pedophile priestm, a child abuser, a murder, an adulterer and card carrying members of the NRA and KKK...and throw in Monica Lewinsky on the lap of an Ex-president

...Did I get them all in there?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Logan....in the past President Bush has said that his belief was that this should be an issue left to the states...i.e. State's Rights. Now he supports a constitutional amendment.

I realize we all have the right to change our mind, but I am curious as to what has occurred to cause him to changes his mind since the last election???

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
How about we all go have a gay marriage then go watch The Passion- only if I can sit next to a pedophile priestm, a child abuser, a murder, an adulterer and card carrying members of the NRA and KKK...and throw in Monica Lewinsky on the lap of an Ex-president

...Did I get them all in there?

lololol, I see at least three discounts.

Under age kids, seniors and a group rate......;)

[Logan]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Logan....in the past President Bush has said that his belief was that this should be an issue left to the states...i.e. State's Rights. Now he supports a constitutional amendment.

I realize we all have the right to change our mind, but I am curious as to what has occurred to cause him to changes his mind since the last election???

I don't know the answer to that, Sarah, but maybe in time, he will explain it further. Perhaps he is taking a stronger stance because of what has been happening in CA in the last few weeks. I just don't know. :rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Logan
because of what has been happening in CA in the last few weeks. I just don't know. :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with what happens IN Cah-lee-fuh-nee-ah.....It's been going on for a long time.....we are able to keep secrets, that's all ;)


It's all a clever ploy by the GWB campaign braintrust to win over the biblethumping, conservative, Bible Belt, middle of the road,
did I mention the Bible???? demographic.:confused:

[kevinrats]

This is actually really funny.

You post something in the doghouse. Under that it says CONTROVERSIAL topics.

Then, when I, actually start a controversy (GASP!) I get called a troll, and an 80 year old man or something, or at least not who I say I am.
And I have not put down any of down for your beliefs and values, so you you stop doing it to me? It would be much appreciated.


Well, I am a 15 year old freshman in high school. All I am doing is stating my opinion. Is that terrible? I guess.

I have mixed up some of my messages. I am sorry. Really. But I am a freshman, not out of highschool like most of you. I am not too smart, and I am trying to argue my opinion. Its hard for me.

It is my opinion. Please get this straight, because you don't seem to get it now.

[Kfamr]

Is being 15 and a freshman your excuse? :confused:

[kevinrats]

Um, no actually Kfamr. As you will read above, they called me a troll posing as a 14 year old. I just wanted to clarify.

[Kfamr]

LOLOL- oKay.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Um, no actually Kfamr. As you will read above, they called me a troll posing as a 14 year old. I just wanted to clarify.

Cool, we can get you into the movie with your student ID!

The arguement at hand is actually more complex than just 'gay' marriage, the government and constitutional amendments....

One of the biggest problems is the "Jesus loves everyone" line that everyone uses.....

Well, if Jesus loves everyone,does that leave
us humans to hate each other while we believe in his teachings????

I am trying to figure that one out.:confused:

[trayi52]

How about we all go have a gay marriage then go watch The Passion- only if I can sit next to a pedophile priestm, a child abuser, a murder, an adulterer and card carrying members of the NRA and KKK...and throw in Monica Lewinsky on the lap of an Ex-president

Oh! 2kitties I would rather find out my child was homosexual than to find them to be the above mentioned. I think Homosexuality is just a class of people like we are. I would not even put them in the same catagory as the child abusers, KKK, NRA, etc. But I do get your point.

[2kitties]

just sarcasm, trayi

[kevinrats]

Okay. Since you keep bringing this up, do you want to know what the Bible says about gay relationships and gay marriage?

It says that being gay is not a sin. It says specifically that acting on being gay, like having relations with other men/women is a sin.

And who used the "Jesus Loves Everyone" line?

I'm sure this will just fuel the fire.

[2kitties]

Alright, if we want to get all biblical, then let's take of the gloves.
If we are going to go so far as to take what the bible says as literal, as you seem to want to do Kevin, then let's go ahead and amend the Constitution based on it.

The US Constitutional Marriage Amendment.....
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)

B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)

C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)

D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)

E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)

F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe, and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)

G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even ifhe had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you are female. (Gen 19:31-36)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by kevinrats


It says that being gay is not a sin. It says specifically that acting on being gay, like having relations with other men/women is a sin.



Forget the Jesus Loves Everyone......I have...


Now you can THINK you are gay but when you ACT on it you are a sinner....


NOW.....What does the rule say about having 'impure thoughts'???

[Kfamr]

I asked alot of people in school today what the thought of Gay Marriages and everything of the sort.

Even the most religious people I know, people who go to church, people who wear crosses religiously.. Said there's nothing bothering them with it so why not?

Alot also brought up stuff like a person in a gay couple to be there with their partner and make decisions if they've gotten seriously hurt or ill.


I really just don't understand why or how it bothers some people. It's not like they're trying to marry you, corrupting our society, or hurting anyone psyhically. Mentally, maybe - but that's their fault.

Most people who are against it don't even have a fight or an argument against it. They say it's wrong, they say it's against 'God'. Well, not everyone believes in that. They have their rights to believe in it, but they have no right to stop two people of the same sex from loving each other and owning a peice of paper saying they're legally married.


And really, if we're going to go about the Bible with everything that happens in the world, many many things should be 'banned'.

There's far more things in this world that people should take their time with other than worrying what John and Steve, or Mary and Louelle are doing with their lives.

[kevinrats]

Impure thoughts is under adultery in the ten commandments for everyone.

If a man even thinks of a woman in an impure way, he has already committed adultery with her and needs to repent.

Thats what it says about impure thoughts.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Kfamr

Most people who are against it don't even have a fight or an argument against it. They say it's wrong, they say it's against 'God'. Well, not everyone believes in that.

Exactly. Not everyone believes in god. So why should they have others beliefs shoved down their throat, and not be able to do something because others see differently?

Dans mother is a lesbian. Although I don't agree with it who am I to judge? No one. It's not my place to do so. If there truly is a God and what they are doing is wrong, leave it up to God to decide what to do in the end.

[RICHARD]

whoa,

The ten commandments only apply to the people who
believe in them.

So how can you apply those rule to everyone else?

You said it's o.k. to think you are gay-but isn't that the same as 'impure thoughts'?

Just checking..

--------------------
2K,
F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's
widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe, and be otherwise punished in a
manner to be determined by law. (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)

Shouldn't the punishment be for a woman to give away her shoes???;)

[trayi52]

Well said Cass!

[kevinrats]

RICHARD, first off, when did I say they apply to everyone? I personally think they do, but I know you don't.

Impure thoughts-Thinking sexually about something, having sex with them, lusting for them, etc.

If you think/know you're gay, that's fine in itself. But when you start lusting for other men/women (don't worry. This same law applys to straight men/women.) it becomes sinful.

Since you bring this up, I am just stating what the Bible says.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by kevinrats
RICHARD, first off, when did I say they apply to everyone? I personally think they do, but I know you don't.

Impure thoughts-Thinking sexually about something, having sex with them, lusting for them, etc.

If you think/know you're gay, that's fine in itself. But when you start lusting for other men/women (don't worry. This same law applys to straight men/women.) it becomes sinful.

Since you bring this up, I am just stating what the Bible says.


You may, but not everyone feels the same way you do. Not everyone should have to comform to YOUR beliefs.

I lust all the time. For those new pair of Adidas shoes, Tom from Blink 182! :D I am sure you lust too. How many times have you complained to your mom for that new Sony Playstation game because you are lusting for it? If she finally gives in and you play the game, are you going to hell?

[Denyce]

Ok...lets see how many people I can offend with this statement...not that I am intentionally trying to offend people..this is just my belief.

You know that parlor game where you whisper someting in someone's ear..and then they whisper it in the next persons and so on and so forth?? By the end of the circle the story only barely resembles what the first person whispered????

Well....you know how many times the Bible has been translated from version to version and in how many different languages...and how many times languages are extremely difficult to translate from one to the other???? Is anyone seeing where I am going here???:rolleyes:

I mean....really....how different is the Bible today compared to what was written how many thousands of years ago? And that isn't even taken into consideration that it was the interpretation of several men to start with!!! It may never have been fully correct with what God wanted in the first place. And that is also if you actually believe that GOD with all that he/she/it has to do in creating and running this world and who knows how many others felt like he/she/it had the time to whisper these thoughts of his to someone in the first place.

So can we totally leave the Bible out of the discussion and just use our own common sense on issues such as these? That would bring us back to "What does it hurt anyone if two people of the same sex choose to make a legal committment to one another? Doesn't affect me at all.

By the way....just for levity sake...I love the show Joan of Arcadia

Denyce

[Kfamr]

I'm lusting a for a new digital camera, i'm a sinner now!


I don't understand how someone's beliefs (or the ten commandments) should apply to everyone. Explain that for me, please, Kevin.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by kevinrats
RICHARD, first off, when did I say they apply to everyone? I personally think they do, but I know you don't.



Now that you do admit to saying that you believe that they apply to everyone........


You are correct, I do not apply them in my life because I am probably going to hang with the demons after it's all over for me on this planet....

And yes, "I have commited adultery in my heart..."

So why the interest in what adults, with an affinity toward each other, have such a profound impact on the way that you live your life???

go for a bike ride in your neighborhood and see how what goes on inside of those homes impacts your life.

I don't think Jesus would want to bother you with the details.

;)

[2kitties]

Kayann, I am sorry, but you will not be allowed to marry your digital camera under the new consititutional amendment. However, Luckies4me, it is perfectly acceptable for you to marry the Tom from Blink 182.

[Kfamr]

LOL! :p

[trayi52]

I'll tell you what I'm lusting for, a red Volkswagon, or black, 5 speed new model! Doesn't have to be brand new. Oh I am lusting for that little car so bad.

I believe in the bible, but I am not living right as they say. And who am I to judge anybody? That is for God to do! Thats is in the bible. Couldn't tell you where, but I don't want to judge. God is the Judge. It is like 2kitties said, there are much worse things going on in this world, like child abuse, sexual abuse to children. Those are the people I spit at! Murder, when you take somebody's life then you have took their chance away to be able to atone for their sins.

We all sin. I am not perfect, I am smart enough to know that I am way, way, far from perfect.

I am not going to judge anybody for what they believe, or their way of life.

[kevinrats]

Of course I lust! Everyone does, and if someone says they aren't, their obviously lying. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is perfect. We are all so imperfect it's scary.
Like I stated above, lusting is more used in the Bible for sexual things.

When do I say that this applys to everyone? Please show me when I did! I said I believe that they do, but you don't.

About the "telephone game" theory. Jewish copyists of Hebrew scriptures had incredibly strict rules and regulations to follow when copying the Bible onto a new sheet/book.

They had the have each copy written in 30 letters width, with a certain number of lines to each column.

Each copy had to be written in a certain quality and color of ink.

Each copy had to be made from the original.

Not even the tiniest letter could be written from memory. Say they were writing the word "to." They had to look at the "t" and write it, then look back at the "o" and write it.

No letter could connect with or overlap another letter. The distance between each letter was measured by a single hair or thread.

Every letter of every page and book was counted and compared against the original. The number of times each letter of the alphabet occured in a book was counted and compared against the original. The middle letter of the first five books (called the Pentateuch) and middle letter of the entire Bible was computed and indicated in the text. If even ONE of these calculations were off, the copy was thrown away.

If just one of these things were wrong or off, the copy was thrown away. This has been proven in secular History as well.

[kevinrats]

And for judging, I totally agree that only God should judge! It says in the Bible that no one should judge, only God. It is not my place at all.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by kevinrats


When do I say that this applys to everyone? Please show me when I did! I said I believe that they do, but you don't.






Originally posted by kevinrats
RICHARD, first off, when did I say they apply to everyone? I personally think they do, but I know you don't.



I know you are, but what am I???

In the bible it says that Jesus loves everyone and
yadda yadda yadda.......But then it comes across saying that people are sinners for ___________.

Isn't catholocism based on forgiving, love and accepting people no matter what or who they are?

That's where the messages get crossed......It does not make sense to preach all this goodness and forgiveness-then turn around and cast stones at the sinners......If that's the case why not just toss the stones up into the air and ask Jesus not to crack your skull becuase you are not a sinner.... Wouldn't that be a test of faith???

Federov shoots, Jesus Saves!!!!

[ramanth]

2kitties, have I ever told you that I loved you? ;) :D

*giggles*

[trayi52]

I think we all love 2kitties! And I think we can all agree on that!

[2kitties]

blushes

ya'll are sweet. and if the constitution allows it, i'll marry you all! and if it doesn't then we'll have to settle for lust and unclean thoughts.

[Tonya]

All I have to say is that we all have sinned. As long as it isn't hurting or affecting others negativly, who cares?!

[dukedogsmom]

LMAO! I am lusting after so many things.......OH, the Cadillac Escalade pickup with the spinning rims, of course. And, a great digital camera. Hey Kay, when you get your new one, can I have your old one? And I want another dog but I'm not lusting over a dog. Guess that's really good :) And, if I could turn back time, I'd really LOVE David Lee Roth from early 80's.

[Miss Meow]

Originally posted by luckies4me
My stepbrother lives in Australia with the aboregenees (sp?) and all the men there are gay. The only reason they have intercourse with women is to reproduce.

This is getting off the topic of gay marriage, but do you have anything to back this up? Location, community, which Aboriginal tribe etc?

On the topic, I used to share a house with a lesbian and she'd ask me how I knew I was straight. I don't know, I just knew. I asked her how she knew she was gay. She said she didn't know, that's just how it was.

Love is love, and sometimes it just doesn't fit George Dubbya's narrow vision.

[micki76]

We all “sin”. If you believe in Jesus, then you believe that he died for your sins; to absolve you for them. If you don’t then you probably aren’t too worried about your “sins”. LOL

True, we are supposed to try not to be sinners, but that’s not possible because God created us to be less than perfect, ie: sinners. He sent Jesus to wipe the slate clean for our sins, and the only price for that is that we ask Him to do so.

Believe it or don’t. That’s the beauty of America. FREEDOM! Freedom to choose a religion, or to choose not to have one. Freedom to choose a spouse. Freedom to have this coversation.

[catnapper]

This is all getting too funny! I've had several laugh-out-loud moments as I scrolled down.

Since it seems that somebody brought this up, here are the ten commandments:

I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.

Honor thy Father and thy Mother

Thou shalt not kill.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

One I have not broken was Thou shalt not kill... so hopefully spiders and goldfish don't count. Oh, and that squirrel I once ran over with my car. Oops.

I totally never physically performed adultery. Oh, but there are some famous guys I dream of at night;)

I certainly haven't coveted thy neightbor's wife.. She's nice and all, but not my type.

Keep 'em coming guys - you're making my day!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catnapper


One I have not broken was Thou shalt not kill... so hopefully spiders and goldfish don't count. Oh, and that squirrel I once ran over with my car. Oops.



Well, I did squirrel on my motorcycle, not intentionally, of course.....but if that does count, I've gone 10 for 10!!!

A perfect score for the California Connection...
:rolleyes:


I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints......

Billy Joel

[kevinrats]

Since this is obviously going nowhere, I agree to disagree.

And I'm not Catholic.

K, I gotta go look for my billygoats now and return to my bridge! :) ;)

[Twisterdog]

I'll tell you what I'm lusting for, a red Volkswagon, or black, 5 speed new model! Doesn't have to be brand new. Oh I am lusting for that little car so bad.

I lusted for one, too. But instead of simply thinking impure and lustful thoughts about Beetles ... I actually acted on the lust and bought one. So ... that makes a VW sinner, eh? "Thou shall not covet they neighbor's Volksawagen or his Escalade ... thou shall get off your lazy butt, get a job and buy your own." ;)





About the "telephone game" theory. Jewish copyists of Hebrew scriptures had incredibly strict rules and regulations to follow when copying the Bible onto a new sheet/book.

That is laughable. Anyone who collects old books, or Bibles specifically, will tell you there are literally hundreds of mistakes and misprints over the ages.

One example I can think of offhand .... I can't remember the exact quote, but it says something like, "A rich man will sooner get into heaven than a camel can pass through the eye of a needle." So, all these thousands of years, the Bible has told us there is NO chance of a rich man getting into heaven, as there is no way a camel will EVER fit through the eye of a needle.

BUT ... older text was found, before umpteen translations and recopies, and the original word for "camel" is very similar to the original word for a thick, coarse type of thread. And THAT is what was originally written .... "A rich man will sooner get into heaven than a thick, coarse thread can pass through the eye of a needle." Someone mistranslated the word, camel instead of thread. So ... not impossible to get into heaven, just very difficult. BIG difference, especially if you happen to be rich, eh? There are literally hundreds of such instances, with who knows how many that will never be discovered.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Miss Meow
This is getting off the topic of gay marriage, but do you have anything to back this up? Location, community, which Aboriginal tribe etc?


My stepbrother Randy has lived with them for about 20 years or so. All the men in that tribe, although I don't know which one it is, are gay. They have orgy's all the time, and all the pieces they make are mostly depicting guys having sex with each other. He stated to me, and I have also seen through pictures that all the men are gay, and the only reason whatsoever to have sex with a women is to produce offspring.

I can ask my father for more info. I didn't know there were more than one tribe, but I can assure you they were all homosexual. I don't think it's something my stepbrother would lie about. I wilk ask my father tonight about it, and he might have some pictures too of the tribe people and stuff. Would pictures tell you who they are possibly? I'm not too familiar with these people and Australia.

[luckies4me]

Here's what my dad said


Blink Babe says:
dad you there?
Blink Babe says:
I want to ask you a question about Patricia's son Randy
Blink Babe says:
about the Aboriginies or whatever he lived with
J Barlow says:
Iam here,working on my legs. What's up ?
Blink Babe says:
do you know what tribe Randy lives with? the name of them, and weren't they men in that tribe gay?
J Barlow says:
They are gay and I think they are called Asmat tribe. The eat men or they used to.
Blink Babe says:
they eat people?
Blink Babe says:
geez
Blink Babe says:
and they were Aboriginees right?
Blink Babe says:
and Randy is gay too right?
Blink Babe says:
is that why they didn't eat him? LOL
J Barlow says:
They used to be head hunters. They killed and ate Rockefellers son. The live on PapaNuGini
Blink Babe says:
oh
Blink Babe says:
in Australia right?
J Barlow says:
Randy is gay his name over there is Tod, because Randy means horny there.
Blink Babe says:
do you have any pics of the stuff Randi brought back, like the masks and stuff? ............I know I remember that. LOL
Blink Babe says:
ok, but I just want to clarify that the men in that tribe were gay correct?
J Barlow says:
As a two dollor bill. lol
Blink Babe says:
huh? I didn't catch that
Blink Babe says:
lol
Blink Babe says:
is that a yes?
J Barlow says:
Yes they are.
Blink Babe says:
oh nevermind! I get it
Blink Babe says:
LOL
Blink Babe says:
DURRR

Hope that answers your question. The conversation was a little funny. :o :p

[Miss Meow]

Cass, so he's in Papua New Guinea, looking at your dad's notes? That's the bunch of islands just north of Australia. I'll try to find some info as the gay tribes and cannibalism sound truer to Papua New Guinea. It's one of the more dangerous places on Earth :)

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Miss Meow
Cass, so he's in Papua New Guinea, looking at your dad's notes? That's the bunch of islands just north of Australia. I'll try to find some info as the gay tribes and cannibalism sound truer to Papua New Guinea. It's one of the more dangerous places on Earth :)

Like I said, I know nothing about over yonder LOL. Would they still be considered Aboriginies, or are they called something else? When you say dangerous, how so? I am very interested in what they do now, especially since my stepbrother lives with these people!!! I gave my dad this link so perhaps he will pop in and join the conversation. :)

BTW, who is Rockefeller? Sorry if I sound dense. :o

[Uabassoon]

I looked up the Asmat tribe and found information about them being cannibals as well as them eating Rockefeller's son.. but nothing about them being gay.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by luckies4me


BTW, who is Rockefeller? Sorry if I sound dense. :o


No, it's a oyster dish......Kidding.....

The Rockefellers were a very affluent family that live/lived on the eastern seaboard..

[Tonya]

Wow, luckies! You have an interesting family. lol.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Logan
It seems that we all have an opinion about this matter, right or wrong, and the President obviously feels strongly too.


George W. feels the heat of political pressure from the far
right Christian Conservative coalition of voters who helped
put him into office. This is a re-action not an original thought
on Bush's part. IMO.

[micki76]

Originally posted by lizbud
This is a re-action not an original thought
on Bush's part. IMO.

*snort* An original what? LOL

[dukedogsmom]

Luckies, that was so funny! Very entertaining. Boy has this gotten way off topic, thank goodenss.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
I looked up the Asmat tribe and found information about them being cannibals as well as them eating Rockefeller's son.. but nothing about them being gay.

Here's a link that Miss Meow gave me.

Trust me, their homosexual. ;)

http://www.popmatters.com/film/reviews/k/keep-the-river-on-your-right.html

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Tonya
Wow, luckies! You have an interesting family. lol.


Sometimes a little too interesting, LOL. :p

[luckies4me]

I am gonna see if my dad can scan some pictures of the carvings and things we have that Randy brought to us. They were SO cool! One, was kinda like a shrunken body lady who had this wooden basket or something, and my dad always used to say that if we opened what was inside we would be cursed. :eek:

[dukedogsmom]

That movie sounds very interesting. You couldn't pay me billions to get anywhere near places like that! Scary just reading about it.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
That movie sounds very interesting. You couldn't pay me billions to get anywhere near places like that! Scary just reading about it.

Scarier when your step brother lives there!

[trayi52]

Cass, wow I didn't realize you had such an interesting life. Maybe you should write a book. I would read it!!;)

[Denyce]

Ok...this post is actually from my husband whom is sitting next to me quoting....so here goes. In regards to the Bible...

"As far as copying word for word mistakes are always made no matter how close you follow...

And the Bible wasn't originally written in Hebrew so mistakes may have been made in the ORIGINAL translation even if they were not made in your example of precise copying.

Sometimes "mistakes" are not only made but encouraged or overlooked if it fits a particular need at a particular time."

My husband is not only Jewish but has spent many many years studying ancient religons and has an extensive Bible collection. And guess what....they all don't match! *LOL*

[Tonya]

Out of curiosity, Cass...What brought your stepbrother to start hanging out with a crowd of gay cannibals? Did he just wake up one day and say "Family, I'm moving to Australia to live with some gay cannibal friends." hehe. :D

[trayi52]

Thats what I would like to know, how did he find them? And how did he keep from being the main dinner course?LOL. Like I said, you should write a book, Cass!

Make money on these questions. This is a very interesting subject, really.

Willie:)

[lizbud]

Originally posted by micki76
*snort* An original what? LOL


An original thought.... :D :D

As in to think, to reason, or ponder.:p

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Tonya
Out of curiosity, Cass...What brought your stepbrother to start hanging out with a crowd of gay cannibals? Did he just wake up one day and say "Family, I'm moving to Australia to live with some gay cannibal friends." hehe. :D

You know, that's a good question. I have no idea! When my father married Patricia (she passed away last year :() he was already living over there. He had been there for quite some time already. Patricia was always one of those free spirited kinda women, so I am thinking Randy is the same way I suppose. LOL I am as confused as you all!

[RICHARD]

Boy suspended for playing kiss chase

An eight-year-old boy has been suspended from school for kissing a classmate on the cheek.

Stephen Fogelman from Branson, Mississippi, who is in the third grade, has been excluded after he was spotted kissing a girl during a chase game in the playground.

School officials say they saw the kiss as sexual harassment.

Stephen's parents say the boy doesn't even know what sexual harassment means and he didn't know he was doing anything wrong, reports Short news.com.
-------------------------

If he was to kiss a boy would that be o.k.?????:confused:

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Boy suspended for playing kiss chase

An eight-year-old boy has been suspended from school for kissing a classmate on the cheek.

Stephen Fogelman from Branson, Mississippi, who is in the third grade, has been excluded after he was spotted kissing a girl during a chase game in the playground.

School officials say they saw the kiss as sexual harassment.

Stephen's parents say the boy doesn't even know what sexual harassment means and he didn't know he was doing anything wrong, reports Short news.com.
-------------------------

If he was to kiss a boy would that be o.k.?????:confused:

That is utterly absurd. I have a twelve year old boy, and I can tell you ... he and his friends are so not into girls, and especially in grade school. I can be almost postive that a group of girl initially started this "kiss tag" thing ... it seems to be a phenomenon in every elementary school. If a girl had chased a boy and kissed him, would his parents have sued her for sexual harrassment? Of course not. People need to get a grip.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
If a girl had chased a boy and kissed him, would his parents have sued her for sexual harrassment?

I used to get in trouble for playing that at school, but not to the extent of being suspended lol. My friends and I would chase the boys around yelling "kissy kissy!" and they'd scream and run and tell on us....LOL. Being a kid was fun. :p

[ILoveReptiles]

Oh for god's sake. Twisterdog - you said it. People really need to get a grip. It's a typical child's game for goodness sake. Hell, I used to play games like that all the time when I was a kid.

What IS it with these damn breeders nowadays that feel the need to foam-pad the world for their kids?!?!?! Coddling them like this is just going to make it that much harder for them to face reality when it slams them in the face. It WILL do that eventually.

[Tonya]

Originally posted by ILoveReptiles
Oh for god's sake. Twisterdog - you said it. People really need to get a grip. It's a typical child's game for goodness sake. Hell, I used to play games like that all the time when I was a kid.

What IS it with these damn breeders nowadays that feel the need to foam-pad the world for their kids?!?!?! Coddling them like this is just going to make it that much harder for them to face reality when it slams them in the face. It WILL do that eventually.

I agree. I am pretty open and honest with my son. He understands what right and wrong is, but I don't sugar coat things for him. I went to a private school for a bit...alot of my friends that were sheltered from there grew up to be hellians. They didn't know what to do with themselves once they got out from underneath their parents' wings.

[Karen]

Oh for god's sake. Twisterdog - you said it. People really need to get a grip. It's a typical child's game for goodness sake. Hell, I used to play games like that all the time when I was a kid.

What IS it with these damn breeders nowadays that feel the need to foam-pad the world for their kids?!?!?! Coddling them like this is just going to make it that much harder for them to face reality when it slams them in the face. It WILL do that eventually.

Even in the Dog House, remember - this is Pet Talk. No cussing, no name-calling, even of people who aren't posters here, and remember that we think every person is special.